Toughest Residencies - Derm, plastics, Neurosurgery

[VandyDerm]

What do you think the average MCAT score of those getting these tough residencies are...such a dumb question, sorry.

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[colbgw02]

The correct answer is: it doesn't matter.

 

[DrDre311]

The MCAT is dumb.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Neurosurgery isn't tough because it's super competitive, it's tough because you're working at least 120 hours a week...every week. #3 hardest to get traditionally goes to ENT, Ortho, or Rad Onc (debated)

That said, the "average" MCAT would probably, if I guessed, be in the low thirties. There are a lot of mega geniuses prior to med school who do well and go into these fields, but there are also a lot of "average" students prior to med school who really turned on the heat when they found out their desired specialty is super competitive.

So, yeah, MCAT doesn't matter anymore as soon as you start first year.

 

[minstral]

Just to be clear. your MCAT scores are NOT part of any residency application. not asked about, not reported

 

[Winged Scapula]

Just to be clear. your MCAT scores are NOT part of any residency application. not asked about, not reported

NOT true. Some of the integrated plastics programs ask for them.

 

[DrDre311]

NOT true. Some of the integrated plastics programs ask for them.

If I remember it right, UVA's supplemental app asked for my MCAT score, but that's the only one I can think of offhand. Their supplemental app was a pain in the ass. They wanted you to list every extracurricular activity you had since high school. Who the f*** cares about high school? Pissed me off.

But the MCAT isn't asked about on ERAS and the vast majority of integrated PRS programs don't have supplemental apps (only a handful) and of those, I only remember UVA asking about my MCAT.

So the MCAT is still dumb and doesn't matter.

 

[barcalounger]

Neurosurgery isn't tough because it's super competitive, it's tough because you're working at least 120 hours a week...every week. #3 hardest to get traditionally goes to ENT, Ortho, or Rad Onc

The last year for which both neurosurgery and NRMP data is available (2007) shows an almost identical mean Step 1 between nsgy (236) and ortho (234) and almost identical US senior match rates (83% vs. 80%).

 

[Winged Scapula]

If I remember it right, UVA's supplemental app asked for my MCAT score, but that's the only one I can think of offhand. Their supplemental app was a pain in the ass. They wanted you to list every extracurricular activity you had since high school. Who the f*** cares about high school? Pissed me off.

But the MCAT isn't asked about on ERAS and the vast majority of integrated PRS programs don't have supplemental apps (only a handful) and of those, I only remember UVA asking about my MCAT.

So the MCAT is still dumb and doesn't matter.

It may have changed since I applied several years ago because I remembered a few more...and yes I remember the UVA application because I did an elective there (so I knew what to expect).

 

[DrDre311]

It may have changed since I applied several years ago because I remembered a few more...and yes I remember the UVA application because I did an elective there (so I knew what to expect).

I just thought it was bizarre that they wanted to know about stuff from high school. The whole supplemental app thing was stupid too, because when I interviewed, there were several people who got interviews from UVA without filling it out--and a bunch of people who took the time to fill it out did not get interviews. The person who actually matched there my year looked at me with a "What are you talking about" expression when I mentioned the supplemental app thing at the interview.

And I was only extended 25 interviews of the 43 integrated/combined programs I applied to, so there's 18 programs at least (not counting the ones I didn't apply to) that might have been too cool to ask me to fill out a supplemental app.

I'm so glad I never have to do that crap again. I hated interviewing.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

...
I'm so glad I never have to do that crap again. I hated interviewing.

And you were going to get a job, how?
If you hated supplemental apps, just wait until you see hospital and insurance panel credentialling forms!

 

[BlondeDocteur]

MCAT score is actually poorly correlated with Step I score. And Step I score is not at all predictive of residency performance; Step II, on the other hand, is closely correlated with residency. Too bad it never counts for anything.

 

[DrDre311]

And you were going to get a job, how?
If you hated supplemental apps, just wait until you see hospital and insurance panel credentialling forms!

I interviewed at 23 programs (while on rotations) over a span of 2 1/2 months at great personal expense. I was unable to coordinate any of these interviews temporally even at programs that were physically close (example: I flew to NYC 3 separate times, Chicago twice, Cali x 4, etc...). Believe me when I say it was miserable.

I do not anticipate ever having to do that again. Or having to wonder about matching, despite all the hard work I had put into medical school. I'm sure finishing residency comes with its own set of aches and pains, but I'll be a BE plastic surgeon--not some guy finishing med school with a ton of debt, wondering if he'll even be able to become a plastic surgeon. I find it hard to believe that getting privileges at a hospital could be as awful as the PRS interview trail/matching process was.

 

[GMO2003]

I interviewed at 23 programs (while on rotations) over a span of 2 1/2 months at great personal expense. I was unable to coordinate any of these interviews temporally even at programs that were physically close (example: I flew to NYC 3 separate times, Chicago twice, Cali x 4, etc...). Believe me when I say it was miserable.

I do not anticipate ever having to do that again. Or having to wonder about matching, despite all the hard work I had put into medical school. I'm sure finishing residency comes with its own set of aches and pains, but I'll be a BE plastic surgeon--not some guy finishing med school with a ton of debt, wondering if he'll even be able to become a plastic surgeon. I find it hard to believe that getting privileges at a hospital could be as awful as the PRS interview trail/matching process was.

I guess you haven't applied for your medical license just yet..some states are a breeze..as for others...let's just say it is truly an ordeal

 

[DrDre311]

I guess you haven't applied for your medical license just yet..some states are a breeze..as for others...let's just say it is truly an ordeal

I guess I wasn't clear. It wasn't the paperwork that I hated, even though I do hate paperwork.

When I said I hated interviewing, what I meant was that I hated living in airports, eating ****ty food, hemorrhaging money, being constantly disoriented, and always being stressed/on edge about whether or not I was going to match. An aside for any students who will interview this year: 23 interviews was too many. It cost me a lot of money and probably a few brain cells.

I'm pretty sure applying for a medical license (I don't care which state) will not carry the same level of stress as the PRS interview trail.

 

[gutonc]

I'm pretty sure applying for a medical license (I don't care which state) will not carry the same level of stress as the PRS interview trail.

Applying for a medical license isn't nearly that stressful. In the past 3 years I've done the residency and fellowship app/interview process (IM/Onc) and applied for (and received) my state license in a state that is moderately painful (during an ICU month). The interview trails were far more painful/expensive/draining than the license process.

I'm sure the credentialing process is worse than a license but it's mostly (at least from what I've seen from my friends doing it now) bureaucratic BS and doesn't require massive expenditures of money and time away from work/family.

 

[Blade28]

Hmmm...there's more to receiving your license than just endless amounts of paperwork?

I mean, it was painful here, but at least I didn't have to do anything besides fill out forms and repeatedly go to Kinko's to print/fax stuff. And get passport photos.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Some boards, Arkansas comes to mind, require a in-person interview before awarding the license. A friend of mine spent all of 20 minutes there but spent a few hundred dollars on airfare, hotel, etc. for the privilege.

But yes, its mostly annoying repetitive paperwork.

 

[DrDre311]

Some boards, Arkansas comes to mind, require a in-person interview before awarding the license. A friend of mine spent all of 20 minutes there but spent a few hundred dollars on airfare, hotel, etc. for the privilege.

But yes, its mostly annoying repetitive paperwork.

I've always tried to avoid Arkansas whenever possible.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I've always tried to avoid Arkansas whenever possible.

Good decision.

 

[Blade28]

A friend of mine spent all of 20 minutes there but spent a few hundred dollars on airfare, hotel, etc. for the privilege.

So basically he spent a few hundred dollars less than it cost me to fly 2,500 miles to LA to take Step 2 CS?

 

[gutonc]

Hmmm...there's more to receiving your license than just endless amounts of paperwork?

I mean, it was painful here, but at least I didn't have to do anything besides fill out forms and repeatedly go to Kinko's to print/fax stuff. And get passport photos.

And fingerprints...and take 2 open book tests...and...and...and. But no travel at least.

 

[Blade28]

And fingerprints...and take 2 open book tests...and...and...and. But no travel at least.

Yeah, that's pretty bad.

What's with states like Texas and their jurisprudence exam? I've never understood that.