Training question.

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Toohotinvegas33

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So I have the most handsome chocolate lab, but he is stubborn as hell and does not fear us one bit. The problem is that sometimes he likes to get you to play by almost nipping you,growling, and jumping at you. What is the best way to stop all of it. Do you suggest treat, punishment, or will he grow out of it? He is 7 months and neutered.

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Baby pic for bragging
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Your best bet is to find a trainer near you who can pinpoint your issues. Now is a great time to start classes!

(We can't tell what's triggering his behavior over the net as well as someone who can watch you interact can!)
 
Im mostly wondering if this is an age thing? If he will grow out of it then its not a big deal. He did however graduate from the petsmart dog training course.
 
Not a behaviorist, don't play one on TV, and there are only a handful of them out there. With your vague description, it sounds like your dog could be exhibiting classic puppy behavior (nipping, growling, jumping are all things dogs do to encourage play in each other when they're in a pack). If this is the case, there might be a dominance component that also needs to be addressed. However, also from your description, it could be something more serious--from a developing aggression problem to OCD-like behavior.

There's no way someone can tell you over the internet which one it's more likely to be. Someone has to watch you and the dog interact with each other. Common things happen commonly, so chances are it's normal puppy stuff--but have a trainer evaluate him and/or buy a book and do some research/match stuff up to what you're experiencing. Then you can work on correcting it, either yourself or with help.

Good luck! He's very handsome. 😍
 
I would add to that and suggest that you might consider looking into a trainer not at petsmart (nothing against the petsmart trainers, im sure there are some good ones). But private trainer, or a small class, where you can work in an environment a little more normal than a pet store (some trainers will even work with you in your home) will probably give you much better insight and more solid training. Its definitely worth the money for a private instructor, if you do just 1 or 2 sessions with them (instead of an 8 week group class) it often works out the same cost wise and you'd probably get more out of it.
 
Agreed that you should get someone knowledgeable to work with you in person, but I have a general tip that worked very well for my corgi when she was being pushy. Any time she did anything during play that I didn't want her to do (nip, bark at me, jump, etc), play stopped immediately. I didn't say "No", or tell her she was a bad dog, or address the behavior in any way other than turning my back to her and leaving. She caught on really quick that there were rules to play and if she didn't follow them, Mom would quit the game.

We also practice the philosophy of "Nothing In Life Is Free", which has really cut down on her demanding behavior. Basically, she has to do something for me before she gets anything from me. Want the door opened? Sit first. Want me to throw this toy? Sit first. Want your dinner? Sit first. She knows appropriate ways to ask for the stuff she wants, which is way nicer than her previous methods of grabbing at things, jumping on me, or barking for things.

There are some really great training books out there- my favorite is "How to Behave So Your Dog Behaves" by Sophia Yin. I'm sure you can get other recommendations from people here!
 
Find a trainer to work with. In the meantime don't reward him with play when he's "almost nipping you,growling, and jumping at you." Play with him when he's being polite and on your terms.
 
and maybe... get him neutered.

Are you planning to breed or show him? If not, the health risks of staying unneutered and the behavioral impact (lots of testosterone = dominance, aggression) aren't such great ideas.
 
He's neutered already .... last line of the bio, right above the top picture.

Very cute puppy pic, btw, and I'm very jealous!!
 
Awww, look at the cutie pie. While I agree that professional help can be great, it's not always possible or affordable. I know I wouldn't trust any dog trainer in my area with my dogs. And if this is the biggest problem you have, I think you are doing great.

Learn from dogs to teach them. If your puppy does something to you like nipping or jumping to get your attention, yipe (and do it like you mean it, loud and high pitched!!) then ignore them for at least 15 minutes. It tells the dog, "you just hurt me and I'm not going to be your friend if you hurt me." They don't have to actually hurt you, you just have to make them think they did. Also implement play schedules and play start up cues. If at all possible, have play time at the same time each day so he understands that there's a time to play and a time not to. Make sure you start every play period the same way. Either have a verbal cue like "It's playtime!" or a physical cue like putting both of your hands on the floor (almost imitating a play bow). This will make it clear to him that you start up playtimes, not him.

I love the fact that you say he is stubborn and does not fear you. This will more likely force you to use better training methods. Training shouldn't be about forcing a dog to do something. It's about showing your dog the right way to do it. You can't force him to not nip or jump on you for attention, but you can show him that the right way to ask for attention is to sit beside you and make eye contact. (This is one of the first things I teach in a six week basic obedience class.) You can't punish a dog for pottying inside and expect them to understand what you are mad about, but you can show them that the correct place to potty is outdoors. Now I'm rambling, but as you can see it's a topic I'm passionate about. I'll shut up now but if you have any other questions, feel free to message me. 🙂
 
Agreed that you should get someone knowledgeable to work with you in person, but I have a general tip that worked very well for my corgi when she was being pushy. Any time she did anything during play that I didn't want her to do (nip, bark at me, jump, etc), play stopped immediately. I didn't say "No", or tell her she was a bad dog, or address the behavior in any way other than turning my back to her and leaving. She caught on really quick that there were rules to play and if she didn't follow them, Mom would quit the game.

We also practice the philosophy of "Nothing In Life Is Free", which has really cut down on her demanding behavior. Basically, she has to do something for me before she gets anything from me. Want the door opened? Sit first. Want me to throw this toy? Sit first. Want your dinner? Sit first. She knows appropriate ways to ask for the stuff she wants, which is way nicer than her previous methods of grabbing at things, jumping on me, or barking for things.

There are some really great training books out there- my favorite is "How to Behave So Your Dog Behaves" by Sophia Yin. I'm sure you can get other recommendations from people here!


I am a behaviorist and the NILIF (nothing in life is free) is great advice. Are you anywhere near Missouri? I can do consults (I've done phone consults before, but I much prefer in person). You can also look at the Association of Pet Dog Trainers website (ack! I need to renew my membership!) at http://www.apdt.com and do a local search.

Basically what you have is oncoming adolescence bad manners. My mantra for dog training is as follows:

Reward what you like, ignore what you don't like, correct what you can't ignore.

Like stealthdog said, you want to reward four paws on the floor with GOOD treats (think cheese, bits of hot dog, cooked chicken, not boring Milk Bones), attention and petting and turn your back or body block with your hips (but don't touch, or the dog can think of this as petting!) during jumping and nipping. Don't look at him, don't touch him, don't say anything while he's jumping and carrying on. He ONLY gets rewarded for good behavior. If he's the normal goofball lab with a thick skull, as a last resort, you can try a 5% vinegar solution and spray him (not in the eyes obviously). But your timing has to be really good.

Get him engaged with a toy or tug, but the game MUST have rules. This is not a free for all. There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing tug with your dog (the best police, military, and competition sport dog trainers use toy/tug rewards to train and motivate their dogs), but it has to have rules. When you ask for the out, it must out and it's rewarded for outing the toy by a re-bite or more play. The dog has to sit or down before the toy is thrown, etc.

HeartSong said:
If your puppy does something to you like nipping or jumping to get your attention, yipe (and do it like you mean it, loud and high pitched!!) then ignore them for at least 15 minutes. It tells the dog, "you just hurt me and I'm not going to be your friend if you hurt me." They don't have to actually hurt you, you just have to make them think they did.

This works really well for a lot of 8-12 week old puppies (sometimes as late as 4-5 months old). But if they don't learn it by 7 months, it usually doesn't work. If you watch wolves or dogs at play with puppies, they're pretty tolerant, but once they reach a certain age (usually around 5-6 months), the adult will physically correct them like "okay, knock it off NOW." In the same way, at that point of 7 months, I don't want the pup to think of me as a litter mate, but as a pack leader. The high pitched yelp can get the prey drive kicked in too much at that age too and get them too overstimulated.
 
This works really well for a lot of 8-12 week old puppies (sometimes as late as 4-5 months old). But if they don't learn it by 7 months, it usually doesn't work. If you watch wolves or dogs at play with puppies, they're pretty tolerant, but once they reach a certain age (usually around 5-6 months), the adult will physically correct them like "okay, knock it off NOW." In the same way, at that point of 7 months, I don't want the pup to think of me as a litter mate, but as a pack leader. The high pitched yelp can get the prey drive kicked in too much at that age too and get them too overstimulated.

Hmm, I guess it is true that there are as many opinions as there are trainers. I could get into a huge debate here about how dogs are not wolves. My dogs are dogs and behave like dogs NOT like wolves. I observe dog behavior not wolf behavior when teaching them. I have almost always had at least 5 dogs at a time in my family my whole life and have fostered more dogs than I can count, so a lot of personal observation in addition to what I've been taught by more experience trainers/behaviorists. In my dog "packs" if one dog hurts another, it will yipe (no matter the age) and avoid the other. If the hurt dog tried to reprimand the dog that hurt it, there will be a huge, bloody fight. If you try to reprimand a dog, you better be absolutely sure that the dog respects you otherwise you could cause "dominance aggression" to develop. I also don't believe, like most trainers, that my dogs see me as a dog. They make it clear that they know the difference between human and dog. I use some of the same techniques in communicating that they do, but not because I think they it makes us the same species.

Of course a lot of training has to do with the individual dog and the relationship between the owner and the dog. I have a close relationship with my dogs, so if they think they hurt me, then they are going to be devastated. If you aren't close to your dog, they may not care if they hurt you and so then you probably would have to find a different technique. If the dog's immediate reaction to your yipe is anything except immediate withdrawal, you need to work on your relationship with your dog. Ignoring works, but it works faster if you let them know WHY you are ignoring them.
 
Hmm, I guess it is true that there are as many opinions as there are trainers. I could get into a huge debate here about how dogs are not wolves. My dogs are dogs and behave like dogs NOT like wolves. I observe dog behavior not wolf behavior when teaching them. I have almost always had at least 5 dogs at a time in my family my whole life and have fostered more dogs than I can count, so a lot of personal observation in addition to what I've been taught by more experience trainers/behaviorists.

Dogs are not wolves, but they still are governed by very similar pack drives. I'm likewise a behaviorist, have 4 large dogs all of working breeds and mixes (I would even consider more, but we're still in the city limits, just barely), and have fostered dozens of dogs, typically the large rowdy German shepherds, huskies, Rotties, etc that no one else wants to foster. I don't have shrinking violets as dogs (I have two Malinois, a Malinois/GSD and a husky/Rottweiler) and I understand quite well the necessity in having good pack order, especially with those particular breeds and personalities. They don't call Malinois the Ferrari of the working dog world for nothing. 😎

In my dog "packs" if one dog hurts another, it will yipe (no matter the age) and avoid the other. If the hurt dog tried to reprimand the dog that hurt it, there will be a huge, bloody fight.

You describe a scenario with two adult dogs, not a scenario with an immature dog who's still a pup mentally (even if they're approaching adult size) and an adult who's had enough. There's definitely a difference if you've seen young dogs and adults play. An adult dog who will tell off an obnoxious youngster without hurting them is worth their weight in gold.

If you try to reprimand a dog, you better be absolutely sure that the dog respects you otherwise you could cause "dominance aggression" to develop.

Oh yeah, I agree with this one. Trying to alpha roll a 120 lbs Rottweiler who doesn't respect you and who is royally pissed off is a good way to get your face taken off. 🙄
 
i'm in the ignoring camp. my dog is 10 (but i tell him he's only 4) and i still ignore him when he is exhibiting undesirable behavior. it seems to work because he hasn't picked up any new undesirable behaviors and is pretty well mannered overall.
i proceed the ignoring with the word "enough" in a firm voice. if he doesn't immediately stop what he's doing, i send him to "jail" (his kennel). granted, he doesn't have a dominant personality, but it seems to work for him. from doing it with other dogs, it seems to work pretty well. dogs are pack animals and being excluded from the pack is a strong motivator for behavior or the suppression of it.
 
I actually have some cool videos of this dog-dog behavior. Well, they're really bad quality videos, but the activity that they capture is quite interesting. This is a very, very common activity between my dogs when they were younger. I believe in these videos Splat (the black one) was 8-9 months old. Patches (Beagle mix) was about 12 years old.

I hope you can access the video. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v404/HeartSongforGod/?action=view&current=CrazySplat.flv Here in the first one is where Patches tries to reprimand Splat. Everytime she tried, it made him worse. He would get crazier than when he started and it wouldn't stop until I seperated them or Patches physically hurt Splat.

Here is what happens when Patches ignores him. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v404/HeartSongforGod/?action=view&current=playwithme2.flv Notice that he has a toy in his mouth. If she wouldn't pay attention to him right away, he'd go get a toy. At the end he has given up and it looking at me to play with him since Patches is totally ignoring him.
 
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