Transfer to an MD Program

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I am a 2nd yr. D.O. student...my plan was to go to a D.O. school for a yr., then transfer to an M.D....I have to say that I'm glad that I did NOT transfer...my father is an M.D. & recommended me to go to a D.O. School instead of an M.D. school (he feels the M.D. schools in America are getting worse every yr. that goes by...he teaches M.D. & D.O. residents & always complains the M.D.'s don't know the "A, B, C's of medicine")...I actually attended a post-bacc. at an M.D. school where we actually sat in the 1st yr.'s class & took their same exams (we were graded against the 1st yrs.)...We didn't take gross anat., embryo., or genetics in my post-bacc...I can tell you the classes were exactly the same when comparing a D.O. school to an M.D. school...eventually (w/in the next 10 yrs.-->most are saying w/in 5 yrs.) the AMA & the AOA will join together & form 1 big group...the divisions are breaking down...my position is this...if the classes are the same, then why transfer?...most, if NOT all M.D. schools will make u repeat the 1st yr. over again rather than start as a 2nd yr...why waste the extra $$ & yr.?...hope this helps
 
eventually (w/in the next 10 yrs.-->most are saying w/in 5 yrs.) the AMA & the AOA will join together & form 1 big group...the divisions are breaking down...
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It will be a very long time, if ever, before the two groups merge completely. Why? First of all, the AMA is not an accrediting body. They have very little power when all is said and done. The ACGME, which certifies MD residency programs, is aligned with the AMA, but they are independent entities. Only 1 out of every 3 MDs even belongs to the AMA. They are mostly now used for political lobbying, if that. The AOA on the other hand is the accrediting body and completely responsible for all 20 osteopathic medical schools and the thousands of residency positions available to D.O.s. While this may seem like a minor legal detail, I assure you, both of these are multi-million dollar organizations which will have to undergo quite a reorganization for a merger to take place. Also, the people who run the AOA, right or wrong, strongly believe in the tenents of osteopathic medicine as a distinct choice in healthcare, for patients and doctors. John Crosby, JD, the exec director of the AOA, actually used to be vice president of the AMA. He's very politically connected and actually wrote much of the failed health-care reform policy for the Clinton administration while he was at the AMA. He came to the AOA for a few reasons from what I've read, but he mostly didnt like the direction the AMA was trying to point american healthcare, so he joined the AOA. The AMA has actually offered the AOA a seat in their governing body for the past 5+ years and the AOA has continually turned it down because the AOA is not, nor should be, a specialty college within the AMA on the likes of the College of Surgeons or College of Family Practicioners. While osteopathic medicine has become more "mainstream", allopathic medicine has become more "osteopathic" over the past decade or so. The two groups will continue to blend, and have done so in collaboration on many issues. For example, the AOA and ACGME just started a joint task force on dual accredidation for residency programs. D.O.s are also hosting the inaugural "Future of Medical Education" conference this month in Bethesda, MD, which will be attended by many MD schools. Also, to keep costs down, the upcoming performance exam will be offered at many of the same locations for DOs and MDs and will consist of much of the same material, but the D.O. exam will contain OMT in addition. This collaboration will continue, but there has to be a drastic change in the political landscape for the 2 groups to merge completely. I dont see it happening anytime soon, honestly.
 
Lama, I think that you should stay far far away from osteopathic medicine. Please don't apply. Stick to the MD my friend and you'll have that sought after residency at Stanford. Becuase you know that's what's important....Having an MD and your GME from Stanford. Don't bother with the DO degree. Lama, chicks don't dig guys with DO degrees...and you'll never be as good as your brother. Leave all those open seats at DO schools for people like me who don't mind explaining the principles and philosophy of osteopathic medicine. If you choose not to take my advice and transfer to an MD school after gaining acceptance to a DO school please don't worry that you took a seat in a class that could have went to someone who believes in that quackery they call osteopathic medicine. 😀
 
Originally posted by Nater44
Lama, I think that you should stay far far away from osteopathic medicine. Please don't apply. Stick to the MD my friend and you'll have that sought after residency at Stanford. Becuase you know that's what's important....Having an MD and your GME from Stanford. Don't bother with the DO degree. Lama, chicks don't dig guys with DO degrees...and you'll never be as good as your brother. Leave all those open seats at DO schools for people like me who don't mind explaining the principles and philosophy of osteopathic medicine. If you choose not to take my advice and transfer to an MD school after gaining acceptance to a DO school please don't worry that you took a seat in a class that could have went to someone who believes in that quackery they call osteopathic medicine. 😀
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: LMFAO!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
...and actually, Lama, not only do chicks NOT dig guys with DO's...but all the chicks in DO schools have armpit hair and wear patchouli essential oil and are always talking about in "healing energy" and asking you what your starsign is.

really. i am serious. i haven't shaved my pits in years, and i'm going to be a DO, so i know what i am talking about, okay??

stay away. it is NOT pretty.
 
I'm glad I'm going DO because armpit hair, hairy legs, and patchouli makes me HOT.
 
actually i have some family friends who are in the upper echelon of the AMA & AOA...they have been talking about consolidating for a few yrs. I think it will be 10 yrs., but they say 5 yrs...they say they need to join together for 2 reasons: 1.) the will have more clout in the gov't against the insurance companies/lawyers & 2.) the majority of the state's medical boards are combined (D.O./M.D.)...unlike in PA where they are separate...even in PA, they plan on consolidating by the end of this decade...the ama/aoa are working on the residencies & are trying to have 1 admission process & 1 board exam...who knows? 🙂
 
For the love of God why would the AOA want to merge with the AMA! Next thing you know the AMA will have an armpit hair requirement, make their students shower, and adopt the whole patient approach to medicine. For years the AMA has been trying to discredit and ruin osteopathic medicine and now they want to merge with it? People are sick of the allopathic disease approach to medicine. They're tired of their doctors looking at them as symptoms and not people. Osteopathic medicine is on the rise because of its philosophy of how to treat patients. Ever heard the saying if you can't beat them join them? The AMA is picking up on this and trying to get schools to take a more "whole patient approach." UC Irvine requires their students to take humanities classes...Like studying art history will all of a sudden make you a more compassionate physician. DO schools get students who want to be good compassionate doctors first and foremost...Not whiny pre-meds who are more concered about the letters behind their names and what they're brother or peers might think. The AMA sees the writing on the wall. Osteopathic medicine has all the rights and privilages a physician can possibly have and brings a patient care approach that people thirst for. It will continue to grow and the more people discover the benefits of it the more people will opt for a DO. Of course allo students will come back with the "higher stats" argument...but it's all they have and if you hold that belief then your abilities rely soley on your gpa and mcat scores...If you're an allo student and got a 3.6 gpa and the guy next to you got a 4.0 gpa, then the 4.0 guy MUST be the better doctor. Right? Your ability to practice medicine will rely soley on your undergraduate gpa and mcat scores..I have many friends who are MS-II's at an allo school who want to be good doctors and are turly compassionate and who don't hold that belief. Lama your comment about all the DO's who would transfer in a second is down right insulting. It's how you think Lama, not the vast majority of DO students....And furthermore when I get to a good DO school I hope I'm sitting next to a Dr.Mom or Rev Horace whose main goal is to be a good caring doctor and not desprately thirst for some residency at some school they think will raise their status in the eyes of others....And people like bigmumy who don't mind a little armpit hair on a lady!
 
Sorry for the rant. I got a little carried away. 🙄
 
having talked to many d.o.'s...they seemed to be upset w/the AOA b/c they don't spread the word of osteopathy enough to the public...joining the ama would get the "PR" machine rolling...also, the malpractice insurance issue is another reason they want to join...I know 1st hand how bad the insurance problem is, so I can understand why they would want more clout to change the healthcare problems we are experiencing...All I can say is that many state medical boards are DO/MD, instead of having 2 boards...I'm just reporting what I have heard from the "higher-ups" of the ama & aoa...i think it will be a good thing if they join
 
Originally posted by moonshallow
having talked to many d.o.'s...they seemed to be upset w/the AOA b/c they don't spread the word of osteopathy enough to the public...joining the ama would get the "PR" machine rolling...also, the malpractice insurance issue is another reason they want to join...I know 1st hand how bad the insurance problem is, so I can understand why they would want more clout to change the healthcare problems we are experiencing...All I can say is that many state medical boards are DO/MD, instead of having 2 boards...I'm just reporting what I have heard from the "higher-ups" of the ama & aoa...i think it will be a good thing if they join
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When I read this the first thing that came to my mind was the idea of the democratic and republican parties (I mean the actual parties, not everyone who claims to be republican or democrat)forming one body to fight terrorism.

As good as that sounds, it probably won't happen because it's all a territorial thing. There will be arguments over who will lead who and who should do what and yadda yadda yadda until it turns into some big territorial battle. I know I'm being a little pessimistic (sp?), but even though they share this common goal both their agendas differ and that won't be easy to reconcile. It might look good on paper, but who knows when and if it will happen.

p.s- thanks for the complement Nater. 😉
 
I know the AOA has been trying to join the AMA for a long time, but the AMA has rejected this idea up until a few yrs. ago when they found out osteopathy is gaining in popularity.

There used to be 2 osteopathic organizations, but they consolidated into 1. Consolidation seems to be the sign of the times.

Like you all have been saying, the big hang up is residencies & Tx (specifically OMT). They say there will still be separate osteopathic/allopathic residencies. As far as the OMT thing, they need "evidence" that it works. I know the MD school in Michigan has made it optional for their students to take OMT & apparently 75+% took it!!

I agree w/yall that it will be awhile; I'm just reporting what they are saying behind the doors. There is more in common than what ppl. think. Who knows? By the time you finish your residency, there could be 1 medical organization.
 
Actually the AMA has invited the AOA to be a voting member a few times, but the AOA has consistently refused b/c they want to keep their autonomy. Personally I would be for a merger that allowed the AOA to retain its identity while carrying political power within the AMA. Anyway you look at it, a merger is likely going to happen, and would be good for both approaches to medicine.

Regarding the dually accredited residency programs, I can't see how that would be anything but great for DO students.
 
Merging would be fine if two things happened. The AOA needs to work much harder in raising awareness so people know they have a choice. Osteopathic medicine is gaining popularity for a reason. It's the kind of care many people want and the AOA should let people know it's available to them through a national campaign. Let people know they have a choice. I never knew what a DO was until I was referred to one by an MD. People should know they can have a doctor who treats them like a whole person and has all the latest technology and medicine available...The merger should be focused on political and insurance issues. I would rather see an alliance than a merger. A merger would blur the lines too much and make osteopathic medicine less distinct. But many of you are current students and know much more than I do. I should become much more informed about the political and financial ramification of a merger.
 
The AOA is currently carrying out a public awareness campaign emphasizing the "DO difference".

How bad would it really be if a merger b/w the AOA and the AMA blurred the distinction b/w allopathic and osteopathic? What is wrong with mixing the two theories and taking the best from each? At the end of the day it will be patients that benefit from an open exchange of ideas. Remember, it isn't just osteopaths who are pushing for a more holistic approach to medicine.
 
I've been away visiting my aforementioned brother in Palo Alto for the past week. I've noticed quite a few posts since I left. Some observations:

Slickness- you sold out. Think for yourself and quit letting these haters with an inferiority complex bully you into thinking their way about the medical profession. You caved in way too easily.

docperez- I just happened to stumble across your post regarding DO/plastic surgery. Interesting... The responses to your inquiry thus far have been to the effect that DO's have about as good of a chance at landing a decent plastics residency as a snowball's chance in hell. You were so quick to argue about "Osteopathic Wonderfulness". Hope you now realize the reason why I would ask the transfer question. Is it so uncommon to want a subspecialty badly enough that you may consider a transfer if it will better your chances?... Wonderfulness!

Nater & Rev - How cute for the both of you. I hope your new found romance lasts forever.
...when I get to a good DO school I hope I'm sitting next to a Dr.Mom or Rev Horace ...
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thanks for the complement Nater.
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FYI to all- I spoke with the PD of the Stanford Anesthesia department during my trip to NorCal. I asked him point blank about why a DO has NEVER been accepted to Stanford's anesthesia program. He said that the reason isn't so much that they have a problem with DO's, as it is a lack of familiarity with the quality of their medical education. (how do you qualify, academically and clinically, a DO student whose school you are unfamiliar with?... hint- dont say the USMLE) In his oppinion, prestigous programs accept students from schools with which they have a rapport. Because there are so many students seeking the same seat, they have the luxury of selecting the best of the best from the schools that have reputable medical programs. Some of you may ask why a specific residency is so important to me. My answer... because I want the ability to be whatever I want to be without having to check if it's OK first. My hard work as a student should facilitate my dream of becoming a surgeon. Is it fair that I work harder than everyone else, and never be given the chance to pursue my dream because of the letters behind my name? (Sounds like other social issues in today's messed up world.) Docperez is having this very same problem with a plastics residency that he/she wants to pursue. Reality is setting in and he is finding out that it is extremely competitive for a top MD candidate to get into plastics. It is much, much more difficult for a DO.

All of you are right about the MD/DO title, it means nothing because they are equal. But if a PD thinks that there is a difference, then there IS... regardless of what all of you say. That is YOUR reality. You can't just wish it all away. DO's are discriminated against in the upper eshilon of allopathic residencies. For the record docperez- I am looking at plastics also. I have made my decision to go MD. We'll see who gets there first😉

Anyway, this is my very last post. I know, I know ... youre sorry to see me go. But I will move over with my new friends on the allo forum. I won't use anymore of your space, even if you say something insulting after I leave. I want to thank the vast majority of you who were secure enough with your career to offer constructive help rather than insult me. You are excellent representatives of your profression. It's the "haters" amongst you that need the help.
 
I almost shed a tear, such a mature young man and we lost him to allo. Darnit!!! 😉 He also didn't answer any of my questions. Figures....
 
lama...

I appreciate your intrest in getting to know a subject which you know little about. That in itself speaks volumes about your desire to learn. However, how do you ever expect to break down the patient/doctor barrier when you approach what you don't know, such as you have in this forum?? If you approach your future fellow colleagues in a condescending manner, how do you think your patients will react when you do the same? Have some couth. Good luck to you, though!!



CCOM 2007
 
Hey Lama-
I want to respond to some of your questions. I will not make any judgements as to your reasons for asking about a transfer; I just want to give you some facts. First of all, I have a classmate in my D.O. program who transferred to an M.D. program in the South. She will be starting her second year of med school there next year, and when she graduates, she will receive an M.D. I know there are several MD schools that accept D.O. students, to find out which ones, you can go to http://services.aamc.org/tsp_report...=1569866-80161b25-91d8-441e-bc40-0fc022f91e6e

Secondly, being both a resident of California, and a D.O. student at a California osteophatic school, I can answer your question as to why so many D.O.s switched over to MD several decades ago. The reason was because back in the 60s-70s, a group of MDs and DOs joined forces to try to wipe out all D.Os in California (the premise was because they wanted a "unified" medical profession). Anyhow, several laws were passed in California that made it impossible for D.O.s to practice in California, allowing only M.D.s to practice in California. Therefore, although the majority of DOs did NOT want to convert to an MD, they were forced to because they would not be able to work in California otherwise. In 1976, the laws were reversed so that D.O.s could again practice in Califonia. That is why there are not that many D.O.s here in California, because they were only recently allowed to have full licensure again in 1976.

Finally, there are two D.O. schools in California, COMP and TUCOM, both of which are good schools. Let me know if you have any further questions.
 
Every time I think I'm done with this thread it keeps pulling me back in. "I'm not going to take up your precious space?" "Let's see who gets there first."

Lama, you should take a few years off and join the peace corps or backpack across europe. Take some time off and find yourself. Grow a little and live life before diving into the pressure cooker of medical school and beginning your fantastic career in plastic surgery. But please keep your promise about going MD instead of DO.
 
LAMA:

great question or statement(s)...
the bottom line is that you make of your education what you want. if you think that by being a DO, you will be an inferior physician to MDs, then it's all on you. we read the same books as MDs and take the same, though at times different, licensure examinations.

i was fortunate to have been accepted to both allopathic and osteopathic institutions (Meharry, TN and NYCOM, NY); however, i chose to go the osteoptahic route. i kid you not that i had my reservations about my decision, but i certainly do not believe for one second that i received a subpar education from NYCOM. as a fourth year student i rotated at johns hopkins hospital and i could 'hang' with someof the best minds in this country.

back to another one of your questions, during my first year at NYCOM, a fellow classmate transferred to SUNY-Brooklyn... it is possible, but again it depends on what you want to become -- an MD, a DO or a physician.

email me if you have any additional questions or concerns.

Qualls Stevens, DO, MBA (NYCOM '02)
Resident Neurosurgeon
Bloomington, IL
 
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