Transfering as a VA Pharmacist

[NorthSide1]

Just wondering if anyone has advice on VA transfers?

A couple months ago I took a job as a VA pharmacist GS12 position. Then I saw my dream VA job posted this month and applied to it. I found out I was tentatively accepted to transfer to the GS13 job at a different VA. I feel somewhat guilty leaving my GS12 job only 2 months after accepting the job as I am still training for this current position. I have not found out my start date or salary. Part of me wants my start date to be months away so I don't jump ship on my current coworkers so soon.

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[lord999]

First off, this is handled as an SF-50 promotion, not a transfer, so it does go through a more regulated cycle that transfers (transfers within VA can be handled without posting the job or PSB work). The way HR works in the Civil Service is such that it works out best for everyone concerned that everyone pursues their own agenda for employment. I have been the loser almost every single time because I've lost good staff to other stations. That said, given the politics, I'll do it myself if presented with an opportunity. I never have been that lucky. Don't feel bad, this is the way it works and it is a clear promotion to a terminal grade for clinical pharmacy (any promotions from there almost always require supervision as part of the responsibility).

The way I would sell this is the following. HR does a terrible job, and a job that took forever and a day to come back now has. By the way, if you're new to the Civil Service, DO NOT inform your supervisor until you have the official offer and start date in hand. Under VA policy, the SF-50 can only be issued at least a pay period in advance, but it could be 6-12 months before that happens. Continue working at your job as if nothing has happened. One other matter, if you do accept the other job, don't plan on coming back to the station you are leaving until the current management leaves. It is quite possible for the supervisor to inform the Professional Standards Board to give a LOWER grade/step on a rehire situation as a punitive measure (and let's say that I'm quite familiar with the paperwork on this) as this is a Title 38 privilege on the PSB.

Otherwise, congratulations! Most pharmacists today will retire at GS-12, and you have a GS-13 as a fairly new employee. That's pretty damn good, although I shudder to think of which station you drew assignment at if it is clinical (if it is one of the technicals: informatics, QA, research/IND, or pharmacoeconomics, then that's different and normal). GS-13 is a rare appointment rank unless you are in Texas.

By the way, depending on circumstances, you may forfeit incentive pay and EDRP depending on the new position.

 

[NorthSide1]

Interesting, I thought I was transferring. I got my SF50 form for my current GS12 position and emailed it to the HR at the GS13 position. If this goes through I will be a PACT pharmacist in a big out reach clinic in a VA in the Mountain West. I have not said a word to my current management because I am not 100% sure if this tentative offer will happen yet. To be honest I am paranoid that my current management already knows because the GS13 VA contacted them without notifying me. I do like the current VA I work at, but I do not plan on going back to my current VA ever again as I have no friends or family living in that area. I am currently GS12 step 2 and I am not sure what step I would be at the new location.

 

[lord999]

You'll be step 2 under the "two steps and down" if you drew a "rest of U.S." station like REN or BOI as you'll be evaluated at 12/4. However, the PSB may revise that down based on you not tenuring at salary.

Your current station already knows in HR, but questionable whether or not 119 knows. I doubt it.

Also, knowing how those stations in VISNs, 19, 20 and 21 work, you'll be alone in an outreach CBOC under clinic management in 111 (Medicine) rather than 119 (Pharmacy). This means your position has different masters: 111 is your supervisor and 119 is your credentials and PSB. This can suck if you don't manage the two well. I've seen pharmacists removed for choosing sides.

 

[rxdawg21]

Interesting, I thought I was transferring. I got my SF50 form for my current GS12 position and emailed it to the HR at the GS13 position. If this goes through I will be a PACT pharmacist in a big out reach clinic in a VA in the Mountain West. I have not said a word to my current management because I am not 100% sure if this tentative offer will happen yet. To be honest I am paranoid that my current management already knows because the GS13 VA contacted them without notifying me. I do like the current VA I work at, but I do not plan on going back to my current VA ever again as I have no friends or family living in that area. I am currently GS12 step 2 and I am not sure what step I would be at the new location.

Congrats to you! Did you get the job without a residency or relative experience? If so that is awesome and becoming more and more rare

 

[NorthSide1]

Congrats to you! Did you get the job without a residency or relative experience? If so that is awesome and becoming more and more rare

Thanks, I am not that rare as I did do a VA residency last year so I know that helped my application and I became board certified last month too. I liked PACT while I was a resident, but part of me always has to be careful that the grass is greener on the other side. However, on paper GS 13 vs GS 12 and better hours 8 to 430 M-F seems like a better position. Hopefully it is.

 

[rxdawg21]

Thanks, I am not that rare as I did do a VA residency last year so I know that helped my application and I became board certified last month too. I liked PACT while I was a resident, but part of me always has to be careful that the grass is greener on the other side. However, on paper GS 13 vs GS 12 and better hours 8 to 430 M-F seems like a better position. Hopefully it is.

I love my pact job. It's not without its difficulties but if you are efficient then you should be fine. Good luck! Yes doing a residency especially in va makes a difference for sure

 

[lord999]

Our bastardized form of Primary Care Medical Home.

 

[rxdawg21]

What's pact?

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Ambulatory care

 

[DondeEstaElBano]

What's pact?

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It stands for Patient Aligned Care Team in case you were curious why the VA calls their Medical Home something else.

I’m partial to the Navy’s Medical HomePORT

 

[CurlingHouse]

Would it be a career suicide to apply/consider a "lower" GS12 position i.e. outpatient from a clinical GS13 one due to moving to a desired location?

 

[lord999]

Would it be a career suicide to apply/consider a "lower" GS12 position i.e. outpatient from a clinical GS13 one due to moving to a desired location?

No, that's fairly common among the operational and clinical ranks within a medical center and no one thinks worse of someone for moving for lifestyle reasons. It's questioned heavily if it's a supervisory to a non-supervisory or from VISN/VACO to station, because it is a black mark in terms of ever going back up again. It's not questioned at all if you are leaving one of the known screwed up stations in the VA. Also, family issues drive a lot of the transfers such that it's normal. There's certain stations that get more of that lifestyle traffic (Portland and San Diego in the West; New York Harbor, Tampa, and Miami in the East). There's specific rules though about rank setting when demoting, and it's usually against you, that's part of the game. If you are applying from VISN 17 though, realize that you are overgraded and the situation is known to OHRM National, so you would be evaluated as a 12 and not as a 13 if coming from there. For two sorts of special populations (veterans and LGBT) there are specific networks that they can tap into to make those transfers easier.

 

[CurlingHouse]

@lord999 In terms of climbing up the ranks, have you seen equal opportunity from clinical, inpatient, and outpatient pharmacists?

 

[lord999]

@lord999 In terms of climbing up the ranks, have you seen equal opportunity from clinical, inpatient, and outpatient pharmacists?

For technical, no, unless they have unusual training or proclivities. For supervision, yes, operations (inpatient and outpatient) have preference over clinical. For RPD and Clinical Coordinator (who are usually the same position, or a 1.5), clinical has the preference for obvious reasons. For a 14/15 Chief, yes, always operations over clinical. For VACO, yes, operations and technical have the edge unless you went to UIC or your name ends in a vowel.

 

[bacillus1]

I have to add to this thread that GS-13 for clinical is not atypical anymore, even for inpatient clinical positions. Most sites have upgraded their inpatient clinical people to GS-13s in the past few years due to writing scopes of practice for them, while ambulatory care people have been GS-13s even longer. I only know of a few sites where inpatient clinical people are 12s, and even at those sites the am care pharmacists are 13s.

 

[lord999]

I have to add to this thread that GS-13 for clinical is not atypical anymore, even for inpatient clinical positions. Most sites have upgraded their inpatient clinical people to GS-13s in the past few years due to writing scopes of practice for them, while ambulatory care people have been GS-13s even longer. I only know of a few sites where inpatient clinical people are 12s, and even at those sites the am care pharmacists are 13s.

That was the difference to have a unique scope of practice, which actually is not an exception because it implies supervisory duty (however not personnel supervision). Most pharmacy departments wouldn't go through the effort, which kept clinical pharmacists at 12. However, you technically draw supervision and review duty over residents and actually on other pharmacists on the matters which you have scope over and it does mean that you are held accountable on your evaluation and peer review differently. That means at certain stations like San Diego, the rank and file pharmacists (both clinical and operations) dump on their 13's all the time for anything remotely complicated. It's not atypical, but I still don't consider it common. If you practice on either Coast, 13 clinical pharmacists are seen and with some effort are credentialed, but the interior is definitely still not quite there and I don't think ever will be due to the nature of the personnel. My own take though is that I would never practice at a site that was too backward to put in the paperwork to have the proper authority conferred on their clinical and technical personnel.