Transitional year program board averages

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It seems like some of the more cush TY programs have tunnel vision for board scores to determine who gets invites but I can't seem to find any actual numbers (official or anecdotes from applicants). All I keep reading is the very high quality of the applicants that leads me to believe the average step 1 is probably mid 260s maybe higher. Anyone have any numbers in general for some of these programs?
 
Surely there are some people here who have either interviewed/attended these programs or have friends who did...I'd love some n=1 stories.
 
Interested in this too
 
I was at a highly competitive TY. >260.

Didn't ask my friends their scores, but when reviewing applications for the class coming in after us, most applicants had 250s/260s (there were a good number of 240s too I think, although the majority seemed to be >250).
 
The hospital I'm at currently has a competitive TY. Seems like every TY intern is going into interventional astrophysical neurodermatology at Princeton.

Seriously impressive group of people. The board scores of their respective specialties are ~245 average, and they are all in top programs, so I would expect their average to be >250-260.
 
I may update later as our TYs are peripherally involved in the recruitment process for the next year. Gotta say my cointerns are baller. Dunno how I got in -_-
 
I was at a highly desired TY. Threshold for making the "review" pile was 230. Most of the applications were 240-260s. Don't know exactly what my co residents scores but probably in that same range.
 
What exactly is the incentive for these hospitals to offer "Cush" intern years? Do they just do it for the Medicare GME money?
 
What is the purpose of a TY?

Do certain specialties require them?
 
Dires said:
What is the purpose of a TY?

Do certain specialties require them?
Click to expand...

Many specialties (Derm, Radiology, RadOnc, Ophtho, some Anesthesiology, etc) require a separate intern year before starting the specific specialty in PGY-2. This can be done via a Preliminary Medicine year or a Transitional Year program.
 
do these places care about anything other than AOA and step 1?
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
Many specialties (Derm, Radiology, RadOnc, Ophtho, some Anesthesiology, etc) require a separate intern year before starting the specific specialty in PGY-2. This can be done via a Preliminary Medicine year or a Transitional Year program.
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Radiology and dermatology, at least, really just require a clinical year. This is most commonly done via TY, prelim medicine, or prelim surgery, but an intern year from OB/GYN, peds, emergency medicine, or family medicine also counts. For example, MUSC used to have an integrated internship with their affiliated family medicine program. Rad onc is the same, minus the EM PGY-1, I believe.

I had to check on gas, but apparently they just have requirements on the number of months spent on inpatient, emergency medicine and critical care medicine, while the specialty in which most of this is done is wide open. It turns out that most of these requirements don't have to be done during PGY-1, just before PGY-4 year, which I feel like is a huge selling point that anesthesiology is missing out on.
 
colbgw02 said:
Radiology and dermatology, at least, really just require a clinical year. This is most commonly done via TY, prelim medicine, or prelim surgery, but an intern year from OB/GYN, peds, emergency medicine, or family medicine also counts. For example, MUSC used to have an integrated internship with their affiliated family medicine program. Rad onc is the same, minus the EM PGY-1, I believe.

I had to check on gas, but apparently they just have requirements on the number of months spent on inpatient, emergency medicine and critical care medicine, while the specialty in which most of this is done is wide open. It turns out that most of these requirements don't have to be done during PGY-1, just before PGY-4 year, which I feel like is a huge selling point that anesthesiology is missing out on.
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Personally I don't know why Transitionals are so coveted. It's one freakin' year, big deal. Not to mention there are prelims out there that give you like 4 months of elective so it's effectively a transitional. It would be so annoying to change to completely different services every month.
 
DermViser said:
Personally I don't know why Transitionals are so coveted. It's one freakin' year, big deal. Not to mention there are prelims out there that give you like 4 months of elective so it's effectively a transitional. It would be so annoying to change to completely different services every month.
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Good question. Maybe because TYs rotate through so many more departments that there's less of a chance to getting "stuck" on a service you hate for several months? By definition, these interns have chosen a specialty other than the ones through which they're rotating (with the exception of electives), so maybe there's a benefit in not having to put up with any of these specialties for more than a few weeks?

In retrospect, my internship was really an MS-V year, which proved useful because I had very little interest many of my PGY-1 rotations (I'm looking at you, OB/GYN). Because I was only there for a few weeks, no one really bothered to task me with things unless I showed interest. There were exceptions where I was expected to perform at the level of a categorical intern, but overall I was more than happy just to meet their expectations. I was just looking to pass.
 
colbgw02 said:
Good question. Maybe because TYs rotate through so many more departments that there's less of a chance to getting "stuck" on a service you hate for several months? By definition, these interns have chosen a specialty other than the ones through which they're rotating (with the exception of electives), so maybe there's a benefit in not having to put up with any of these specialties for more than a few weeks?

In retrospect, my internship was really an MS-V year, which proved useful because I had very little interest many of my PGY-1 rotations (I'm looking at you, OB/GYN). Because I was only there for a few weeks, no one really bothered to task me with things unless I showed interest. There were exceptions where I was expected to perform at the level of a categorical intern, but overall I was more than happy just to meet their expectations. I was just looking to pass.
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I imagine also since you were going into Radiology - you actually do get a benefit from working with OB-Gyn (shudder) and Surgery again in that you can see the common things they ask for or order, and so when you're on the other side you can better understand what they're getting at, how to counsel them appropriately on what to order, etc.

Yeah, I guess IM wards wears down people. But it's not like you do 4 months straight of it. It varies.
 
Pardon the tangent, but doing a TY has sort of a double-edged sword of a reputation, right? You're expected to do one by residencies that only allow 2nd year entry. But if you do one, then try and get into a residency as a PGY-2 that only accepts 1st year entry, you're frowned upon since that residency probably filled their spots with 1st year applicants and there's the suspicion that you matched the TY because you couldn't do any better.

Right?
 
kirbymiester said:
Pardon the tangent, but doing a TY has sort of a double-edged sword of a reputation, right? You're expected to do one by residencies that only allow 2nd year entry. But if you do one, then try and get into a residency as a PGY-2 that only accepts 1st year entry, you're frowned upon since that residency probably filled their spots with 1st year applicants and there's the suspicion that you matched the TY because you couldn't do any better.

Right?
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You try to match into transitional and a PGY-2 at the same time in MS-4.
 
DermViser said:
I imagine also since you were going into Radiology - you actually do get a benefit from working with OB-Gyn (shudder) and Surgery again in that you can see the common things they ask for or order, and so when you're on the other side you can better understand what they're getting at, how to counsel them appropriately on what to order, etc.
Click to expand...

As an intern, I don't think one knows enough - about radiology or the ordering service - to "get it". I mean, I didn't need to rotate through general surgery as an intern to know that they order a lot of abdomen and pelvis CTs. And developing a sense of who "needs" a scan and who doesn't isn't something that I think interns really know - categorical or otherwise. I put "needs" in quotations because even among attendings there is huge variance in their threshold for imaging. The only thing that I really got out of my OB/GYN rotation was that I got to be pretty handy with the endovaginal transducer (there's a joke I'm missing here).
 
colbgw02 said:
As an intern, I don't think one knows enough - about radiology or the ordering service - to "get it". I mean, I didn't need to rotate through general surgery as an intern to know that they order a lot of abdomen and pelvis CTs. And developing a sense of who "needs" a scan and who doesn't isn't something that I think interns really know - categorical or otherwise. I put "needs" in quotations because even among attendings there is huge variance in their threshold for imaging. The only thing that I really got out of my OB/GYN rotation was that I got to be pretty handy with the endovaginal transducer (there's a joke I'm missing here).
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To avoid doing a pelvic? http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=89209
 
No, the US was in addition to doing the pelvic exam, which was mostly just a speculum exam. It was an OB clinic, so I don't recall the bimanual exam being done very often.
 
DermViser said:
Personally I don't know why Transitionals are so coveted. It's one freakin' year, big deal. Not to mention there are prelims out there that give you like 4 months of elective so it's effectively a transitional. It would be so annoying to change to completely different services every month.
Click to expand...

A year is a long time to be miserable if you can avoid it. I absolutely do not regret my decision to participate in a TY. I actually had a great time, picked up a few new hobbies with all my time off, traveled a bit, and got to work with some awesome people.

I'm sure some people enjoyed their prelim medicine years. But I'd wager that the percentage is much lower than among those who do a TY.
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
A year is a long time to be miserable if you can avoid it. I absolutely do not regret my decision to participate in a TY. I actually had a great time, picked up a few new hobbies with all my time off, traveled a bit, and got to work with some awesome people.

I'm sure some people enjoyed their prelim medicine years. But I'd wager that the percentage is much lower than among those who do a TY.
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I guess it depends on the structure of the Preliminary medicine year and the institution that it's at. Some structure it to where it's exactly like a categorical and others structure it to where it's quite different - 4 months of elective, for example. Prelim Surgery years are god awful in general but I guess some people like it. I couldn't imagine going thru a TY rotating from one specialty to the next, and having to rotate again on OB-Gyn or Surgery.
 
DermViser said:
I guess it depends on the structure of the Preliminary medicine year and the institution that it's at. Some structure it to where it's exactly like a categorical and others structure it to where it's quite different - 4 months of elective, for example. Prelim Surgery years are god awful in general but I guess some people like it. I couldn't imagine going thru a TY rotating from one specialty to the next, and having to rotate again on OB-Gyn or Surgery.
Click to expand...

I had no OB/Gyn requirement. I did several surgical subspecialties as electives, and it required nothing more than showing up at 7am to scrub in for a few surgeries, and then going home in the early afternoon (and that's on days I actually went in). There was no other floor/rounding responsibilities. I was not carrying any patients. It was quite enjoyable.
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
I had no OB/Gyn requirement. I did several surgical subspecialties as electives, and it required nothing more than showing up at 7am to scrub in for a few surgeries, and then going home in the early afternoon (and that's on days I actually went in). There was no other floor/rounding responsibilities. I was not carrying any patients. It was quite enjoyable.
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You actually participated in surgeries as a transitional rotator?
 
DermViser said:
You actually participated in surgeries as a transitional rotator?
Click to expand...

Sure, in as much as a 4th year medical student might participate. Some first assisting, some observation, and whatever falls between the two. Much of it was contingent on how much I wanted or didn't want to do (within reason).
 
maxxor said:
That's the point of TYs. You should be participating in surgeries as a TY and not being the floor bitch. That's entirely the point and why they are so much better than just a standard prelim.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
Sure, in as much as a 4th year medical student might participate. Some first assisting, some observation, and whatever falls between the two. Much of it was contingent on how much I wanted or didn't want to do (within reason).
Click to expand...
I figured it was more a preliminary Surgery role, i.e. ward stuff, pre-op, post-op evaluation, etc. but I guess that would make TYs less wanted.
 
maxxor said:
That's the point of TYs. You should be participating in surgeries as a TY and not being the floor bitch. That's entirely the point and why they are so much better than just a standard prelim.
Click to expand...
And yet a prelim Surgery resident doesn't get to participate and scrub in? Go figure.
 
DermViser said:
And yet a prelim Surgery resident doesn't get to participate and scrub in? Go figure.
Click to expand...

Most TY programs are located at hospitals that may not have too many other residency programs (usually there is an Internal Medicine or Family Medicine program at least, but often little more than that). So, in my case, there was no prelim surgery resident (or any surgery resident) associated with the hospital.

Many surgical subspecialties utilize mid-levels to do floor work in non-academic settings.
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
Most TY programs are located at hospitals that may not have too many other residency programs (usually there is an Internal Medicine or Family Medicine program at least, but often little more than that). So, in my case, there was no prelim surgery resident (or any surgery resident) associated with the hospital.

Many surgical subspecialties utilize mid-levels to do floor work in non-academic settings.
Click to expand...
Ah, got it. I was going to say I could understand a preliminary Surgery resident being hella pissed that a transitional resident got to scrub in while he's doing floor work. Of course, I guess that's why most TYs are at community, private type hospitals (usually).
 
DermViser said:
Ah, got it. I was going to say I could understand a preliminary Surgery resident being hella pissed that a transitional resident got to scrub in while he's doing floor work. Of course, I guess that's why most TYs are at community, private type hospitals (usually).
Click to expand...

Yup. I would certainly understand a prelim surgery resident envying a TY's role if they were working in the same hospital/on the same service.

As much as it probably sucks, that prelim surgery year is probably pretty important for learning floor/SICU management, even though most people go into surgery to, you know, operate.
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
Yup. I would certainly understand a prelim surgery resident envying a TY's role if they were working in the same hospital/on the same service.

As much as it probably sucks, that prelim surgery year is probably pretty important for learning floor/SICU management, even though most people go into surgery to, you know, operate.
Click to expand...

I thank God every day I'm not doing a surgical prelim year run by gen surg. I'm in the OR 2-3 days per week as first assist or resident surgeon, minimum floor work.

Yeah, my floor/SICU management skills are nonexistent, but I'm not going to be managing a vent or a polytrauma patient as an otolaryngologist. I get my floor skills on my ENT months where I learn how to take care of, you know, actual ENT patients.
 
twolittlebears said:
Any idea if what the threshold would be for a DO applicant? Or were they not considered at all?
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Pretty sure they were given similar treatment as MDs, just had to have USMLE. DOs want to believe that programs accept and understand COMLEX but I think for traditionally competitive specialties no one even knows what a good score is cause they get plenty of good MD candidates.

I know at least 1 DO interviewed last year. Could have been more.
 
Trastuz said:
Pretty sure they were given similar treatment as MDs, just had to have USMLE. DOs want to believe that programs accept and understand COMLEX but I think for traditionally competitive specialties no one even knows what a good score is cause they get plenty of good MD candidates.

I know at least 1 DO interviewed last year. Could have been more.
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ACGME programs have no incentive to understand comlex. If you want to play in MD waters, pass the same tests that we do.
 
maxxor said:
ACGME programs have no incentive to understand comlex. If you want to play in MD waters, pass the same tests that we do.
Click to expand...
I did take USMLE. I think my question was unclear. I wasn't asking what the COMLEX threshold would be, I was asking if DO students would need a higher USMLE score than the "MD threshold" to be considered.
Edit - for example, the IM program at Scripps that requires a 220 for MD students and 250 for DO students to be considered for interview (this was on their website a few months ago but I can't find it now so perhaps that has changed)
 
twolittlebears said:
I did take USMLE. I think my question was unclear. I wasn't asking what the COMLEX threshold would be, I was asking if DO students would need a higher USMLE score than the "MD threshold" to be considered.
Edit - for example, the IM program at Scripps that requires a 220 for MD students and 250 for DO students to be considered for interview (this was on their website a few months ago but I can't find it now so perhaps that has changed)
Click to expand...
I would assume you need 20 more points for step 1. No hard data. Just gut feeling. If a program consistently gets 240-260 MD applicants, you need to be a DO with a 260-280 to even get more than a second glance.
 
Thanks everyone, excellent discussions on a topic not often discussed. Exactly what I was looking for!
 
Going back to OP's question, the average for my TY class was definitely 250-260. We also had a couple of MD PhDs in the mix. Super smart and fun group. We had a harder TY program, with busy medicine/ICU blocks. However we had some awesome elective and research blocks too. Overall it was a good learning experience without too much responsibility. I get bored easily with rounding. So I would die if I do a whole year of medicine. God I hate medicine
 
Dermione Granger said:
Going back to OP's question, the average for my TY class was definitely 250-260. We also had a couple of MD PhDs in the mix. Super smart and fun group. We had a harder TY program, with busy medicine/ICU blocks. However we had some awesome elective and research blocks too. Overall it was a good learning experience without too much responsibility. I get bored easily with rounding. So I would die if I do a whole year of medicine. God I hate medicine
Click to expand...

Your username is terrific.
 
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