Travel Teams

[GeneralVeers]

I don't see how anyone can think of EM docs as anything but UMC, and yes we pay plenty of taxes. The truly wealthy are business owners with massive tax deductions. Investment income is taxed at a much lower rate, of course. Remember what Buffet said- he pays a lower rate of income tax than his secretary; he certainly doesn't see the need to not work.

We are in a service industry- we service the rich and the poor. We don't own our own businesses (for the most part, and they are easily sold because we don't add much value) and we are generally interchangeable. This is not the road to true, multigenerational wealth.

Technically we aren't middle class. Most of us community docs who are making > 300K would be in the top 10% of wage earners. A few of us in a good year with overtime and bonuses can even make the 1% for a period of time.

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[GeneralVeers]

We actually aren't middle class. Most of us community docs who make > 300K are in the top 5% of U.S. households. A few of us in good years with overtime and bonus pay can even make the top 1%.

Sorry to burst your middle class fantasies.

What Does It Take to Be in the Top 1%, 5%, 10%?

 

[Hercules]

I've said it before - doctors and lawyers, the best we'll ever be is upper middle class, for one simple reason: we have to go to work every day. We don't work, and we don't get paid. When you are able to not work, by choice, then you are upper class.

Agree with both Apollyon and Miacomet. I view our work as a means of generating capital. If you’re spending everything you’re making, you’ll never be wealthy. Having said that, our higher paying gigs that generate $500k/yr give you the opportunity to convert that extra capital into income producing wealth. I missed the bus on being a trust fund baby so my kids are out of luck on that account too. However, the work we do puts me in a position to become FI pretty early in life, and I can teach my kids about wealth accumulation and smart personal finance.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Agree with both Apollyon and Miacomet. I view our work as a means of generating capital. If you’re spending everything you’re making, you’ll never be wealthy. Having said that, our higher paying gigs that generate $500k/yr give you the opportunity to convert that extra capital into income producing wealth. I missed the bus on being a trust fund baby so my kids are out of luck on that account too. However, the work we do puts me in a position to become FI pretty early in life, and I can teach my kids about wealth accumulation and smart personal finance.

The advantage to our work is that we are recession-proof to a degree. Our salary may go up and down around an median, but we won't be unemployed or see our salaries go to zero. Investment bankers, and real estate people are in high risk professions that could see tremendous drops in wage or unemployment almost overnight if the economy tanks.

 

[miacomet]

We actually aren't middle class. Most of us community docs who make > 300K are in the top 5% of U.S. households. A few of us in good years with overtime and bonus pay can even make the top 1%.

Sorry to burst your middle class fantasies.

What Does It Take to Be in the Top 1%, 5%, 10%?

It's not about how much you earn hourly- true wealth is not having to trade your labor for money.

 

[GeneralVeers]

It's not about how much you earn hourly- true wealth is not having to trade your labor for money.

You mean like SNAP, Welfare, and Medicaid?

 

[miacomet]

Veers, I think you and I have a different frame of reference. Assets that produce ample passive income, or businesses that have a high ROI are true wealth.

Too many people are attracted by the bright, shiny EM salary and don't see the forest for the trees.

@Hercules has major insight. Seminar, perhaps?

 

[GeneralVeers]

Veers, I think you and I have a different frame of reference. Assets that produce ample passive income, or businesses that have a high ROI are true wealth.

Too many people are attracted by the bright, shiny EM salary and don't see the forest for the trees.

@Hercules has major insight. Seminar, perhaps?

It's easy enough to save a bit of money and buy some rental problems. Just save up some cash and wait for the next real-estate downturn, likely 1-2 years away. I did this in 2011-12 and made some good money between rentals, and re-selling the real estate once it went up enough.

 

[miacomet]

It's easy enough to save a bit of money and buy some rental problems. Just save up some cash and wait for the next real-estate downturn, likely 1-2 years away. I did this in 2011-12 and made some good money between rentals, and re-selling the real estate once it went up enough.

Curious why you sold income-producing assets, esp ones that are taxed so highly when sold?

 

[GeneralVeers]

Curious why you sold income-producing assets, esp ones that are taxed so highly when sold?

The rental income from the properties was taxed at 39% at the time. The property market was such that I could sell the properties for a profit, and make approximately 10 years worth of income in one swoop, rather than have to deal with maintenance, tenant complaints, insurance, utilities, etc.

By selling the properties which I held over 1 year, I was able to claim long-term capital gains and only be taxed at 23% on the sale.

 

[MechEDoc]

Where were all the Cuban proles if not the beach?

They're too broke to make it to the beach. A doctor might make $50 a month, be unable to afford a car or motorcycle, live 2 hours by public transit from the beach, and have questionable swimming ability. In the smaller towns > 50% of the people are travelling by horse or bicycle.

 

[turkeyjerky]

We actually aren't middle class. Most of us community docs who make > 300K are in the top 5% of U.S. households. A few of us in good years with overtime and bonus pay can even make the top 1%.

Sorry to burst your middle class fantasies.

What Does It Take to Be in the Top 1%, 5%, 10%?

Interesting viewpoint. As a 34 year old and self-made millionaire (just barely), I certainly wouldn't consider myself rich or upper class.

In this country, I would argue that the vast majority of people misclassify their own socioeconomic status. Most of whom consider themselves 'middle class' are working class, and the true middle class is primarily comprised of those in the 80th to 95th percentile.

 

[miacomet]

Interesting viewpoint. As a 34 year old and self-made millionaire (just barely), I certainly wouldn't consider myself rich or upper class.

In this country, I would argue that the vast majority of people misclassify their own socioeconomic status. Most of whom consider themselves 'middle class' are working class, and the true middle class is primarily comprised of those in the 80th to 95th percentile.

Very wisely put- especially with the costs of education, housing, and healthcare so much higher than for previous generations.

 

[EctopicFetus]

A few things regarding taxes.

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2018 Update

The federal income tax data demonstrates that the U.S. individual income tax continues to be very progressive, borne primarily by the highest income earners

taxfoundation.org

• The share of reported income earned by the top 1 percent of taxpayers fell slightly to 19.7 percent in 2016. Their share of federal individual income taxes fell slightly, to 37.3 percent.
• The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).

One other thing. income doesnt equal wealth. Assets equal wealth. If you have one year at $1m but your regular income is 50k you def arent rich.

United States Net Worth Brackets, Percentiles, and Top One Percent - DQYDJ

Graph & table of net worth brackets and percentiles in the United States for recent data. See top one percent, top .5%, and .1%, median, and more.

dqydj.com

About $10,3M in 2016 so likely higher now; few EM docs are there.

Docs and EM Docs are the working rich. nothing more nothing less.

Make your money, be loyal to your partners and screw the CMGs as hard as possible.