trouble with dui

[at1771]

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I am about to start my internship and I made the immensely stupid mistake of getting a DUI. It was the worst decision of my life to drive after having those drinks thinking I was OK. I feel terrible about it and have learned my lesson.

I am now concerned about how much ramification this will have on my future. Does anyone know how much impact this will have on my internship, residency, and ability to get a medical license? Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Apollyon]

Contact your state's physician health program immediately, and get enrolled. Expect to be monitored for at least 5 years. Comply with EVERY SINGLE STEP. You are apparently in a state where a training license is not required. If you wait until the state in which you are applying for a license asks you to see a PHP, you're behind the 8 ball.

And ZERO problems/interactions with alcohol again - ever. That is, unless you enjoy 28 or 90 days in rehab (to the tune of greater than $30,000).

 

[medicinesux]

You didn't happen to be returning home from a flight in Dallas earlier this week by any chance?

[YOUTUBE]tWk4MCQaHrc[/YOUTUBE]

Condemn me but I couldn't resist.

To the O.P, you really should consult with a lawyer who specializes in DUI's AND doctor licensing issues. You will be able to practice, if this is an isolated incident, but it is going to be a rigamorole for sure. It sucks but you will get through this.

 

[Arcan57]

Not to pile on the OPs misery, but I always thought that if you had a DUI, you were essentially done from an insurability standpoint. Although you'd still be ok in a job with sovereign immunity.

 

[Shinken]

I am now concerned about how much ramification this will have on my future. Does anyone know how much impact this will have on my internship, residency, and ability to get a medical license? Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated.

Investigate what the laws are in your state.

For example, here in Ohio there's a one-time "free bite of the apple" law that allows you to enroll in a treatment program voluntarily for the first alcohol (or any substance) offense, and when filling out a medical license application you can lawfully answer "No" to the question that asks if you have had to enter a treatment program for substance abuse.

That law only applies to the first offense. If you repeat the offense then you'll have to answer "Yes."

 

[medicinesux]

Investigate what the laws are in your state.

For example, here in Ohio there's a one-time "free bite of the apple" law that allows you to enroll in a treatment program voluntarily for the first alcohol (or any substance) offense, and when filling out a medical license application you can lawfully answer "No" to the question that asks if you have had to enter a treatment program for substance abuse.

That law only applies to the first offense. If you repeat the offense then you'll have to answer "Yes."

are you sure about this??? I would call up the Ohio medical board and get this verified before marking NO to that question! The last thing you need is having your Ohio medical license denied for being "untruthful". And than you will find yourself having way more problems when trying to apply for another medical license in a nearby state. Having to explain why you "lied" is not going to be a picnic. I am not sure they will buy your excuse that you were only taking advantage of "the free bite of the apple" law. This sounds kind of similar to getting something "expunged". Yet when you fill out a medical license form they ask you to declare if you ever had anything "expunged".🙄

 

[Gastrapathy]

are you sure about this??? I would call up the Ohio medical board and get this verified before marking NO to that question! The last thing you need is having your Ohio medical license denied for being "untruthful". And than you will find yourself having way more problems when trying to apply for another medical license in a nearby state. Having to explain why you "lied" is not going to be a picnic. I am not sure they will buy your excuse that you were only taking advantage of "the free bite of the apple" law. This sounds kind of similar to getting something "expunged". Yet when you fill out a medical license form they ask you to declare if you ever had anything "expunged".🙄

Can't speak for Ohio but most of these "free bite" programs require self-referral prior to arrest.

 

[Edmund Dantes]

I would second the advice to get immediately involved with the PHP of your state. They will probably strongly advise you / "make" you get an approved assessment for alcoholism. Do it and please have an open mind. Many people go to be assessed and are in denial for quite a while. If it was really a one time mistake, then PLEASE GET A SECOND OPINION and consider consulting a lawyer. It will save you a whole lotta trouble later.

The PHP's job is to catch people before they destroy their lives and therefore they have an extremely dubious attitude toward anyone that presents to them. Let's face it...many addicts are habitual liars and these professionals get extremely jaded.

My personal story is this: I never have been arrested or gotten a DUI (I drove slightly intoxicated once and it really scared me). My typical drinking would be very sporadic. At the most it was one 12oz. beer every other day or so (on personal time, of course), and get fairly drunk after exams. I never, ever saw patients or even went to any class/to school with even a hint of alcohol in my system. I was in third year on IM rotation and got drunk on a Saturday night. I had a horrible hangover and arrived late to 10am rounds on Sunday morning. I was extremely paranoid, thinking that maybe I smelled of alcohol and would be reported. Naively, I thought that "self reporting" would be in my best interest. I told my attending (who really didn't care), and stupidly sent an email to a 4th year student to apologize. She kicked it up to administration and therefore it had to be 'dealt with.' I was sent to an alcohol assessment at Bradford in Birmingham.

Again, because I am naive, I told them absolutely everything about all alcohol use. I do not recommend intentionally withholding info during the assessment. However, it is imperative to realize that there is the mindset of guilty until proven innocent, and anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of treatment facility team. I strongly do not recommend going to Bradford for anything. People DO get sober there, but the program is very malignant in general, which is from personal experience and from friends who have completed treatment there.

Bradford recommended inpatient treatment. After 90 days of easy sobriety on my own, I went to MARR in Atlanta instead, which was in general a very good program. It cost over $24,000 for 90 days of treatment, which is actually as cheap as it gets.

Now I have five years of monitoring. This includes calling into a random drug screen service every single day, three AA meetings a week, and a group therapy meeting once a week.

I have lost a year of school, and have the stigma of being an alcoholic. After 90 days of inpatient treatment, 7 mos. of easy sobriety, and countless AA meetings, I still don't believe I am an alcoholic -I must have pathological denial 🙂! In all reality, I am still very afraid of my life potentially going that direction.

Take home is get to the PHP, get a second opinion/lawyer if needed, and be very open to the possibility that alcohol is a serious issue. I have come to know many people in healthcare whose lives have been absolutely wrecked by addiction. It's not something to mess with! But if it is not an issue, I hope my absolutely horrible experience will give some non-alcoholic one-time screw-ups some grace!

 

[DHT]

I would second the advice to get immediately involved with the PHP of your state. They will probably strongly advise you / "make" you get an approved assessment for alcoholism. Do it and please have an open mind. Many people go to be assessed and are in denial for quite a while. If it was really a one time mistake, then PLEASE GET A SECOND OPINION and consider consulting a lawyer. It will save you a whole lotta trouble later.

The PHP's job is to catch people before they destroy their lives and therefore they have an extremely dubious attitude toward anyone that presents to them. Let's face it...many addicts are habitual liars and these professionals get extremely jaded.

My personal story is this: I never have been arrested or gotten a DUI (I drove slightly intoxicated once and it really scared me). My typical drinking would be very sporadic. At the most it was one 12oz. beer every other day or so (on personal time, of course), and get fairly drunk after exams. I never, ever saw patients or even went to any class/to school with even a hint of alcohol in my system. I was in third year on IM rotation and got drunk on a Saturday night. I had a horrible hangover and arrived late to 10am rounds on Sunday morning. I was extremely paranoid, thinking that maybe I smelled of alcohol and would be reported. Naively, I thought that "self reporting" would be in my best interest. I told my attending (who really didn't care), and stupidly sent an email to a 4th year student to apologize. She kicked it up to administration and therefore it had to be 'dealt with.' I was sent to an alcohol assessment at Bradford in Birmingham.

Again, because I am naive, I told them absolutely everything about all alcohol use. I do not recommend intentionally withholding info during the assessment. However, it is imperative to realize that there is the mindset of guilty until proven innocent, and anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of treatment facility team. I strongly do not recommend going to Bradford for anything. People DO get sober there, but the program is very malignant in general, which is from personal experience and from friends who have completed treatment there.

Bradford recommended inpatient treatment. After 90 days of easy sobriety on my own, I went to MARR in Atlanta instead, which was in general a very good program. It cost over $24,000 for 90 days of treatment, which is actually as cheap as it gets.

Now I have five years of monitoring. This includes calling into a random drug screen service every single day, three AA meetings a week, and a group therapy meeting once a week.

I have lost a year of school, and have the stigma of being an alcoholic. After 90 days of inpatient treatment, 7 mos. of easy sobriety, and countless AA meetings, I still don't believe I am an alcoholic -I must have pathological denial 🙂! In all reality, I am still very afraid of my life potentially going that direction.

Take home is get to the PHP, get a second opinion/lawyer if needed, and be very open to the possibility that alcohol is a serious issue. I have come to know many people in healthcare whose lives have been absolutely wrecked by addiction. It's not something to mess with! But if it is not an issue, I hope my absolutely horrible experience will give some non-alcoholic one-time screw-ups some grace!

Alcoholism is a DISEASE!!! You are POWERLESS to control your actions! We need to alert the vatican about your miraculous recovery!

In all seriousness, that is a very sad story.

 

[Lil Mick]

I don't know about residency applications yet, but I have had some experience in this area with respect to applying to medical school and matriculating.

First, be honest. It counts for a lot, even if there is a chance that it won't show up on a background check. Plus, it sounds a lot better coming from you than from any other source and shows that you understand the consequences. Also, show that residency program that you are willing to live with whatever consequences they feel necessary to give to you. (Personally, as someone in recovery from addiction, I probably would have asked to check in with someone periodically or gotten drug tested anyway.)

Second, talk with a lawyer (or with a trusted mentor/advisor at your school--they know you and would know if it truly was just one bad judgment and are not classmates who might use it against you). DUIs happen to people who just make a mistake or to people who have a problem with drinking, and you're probably not the first student from your school or in your area to get one. They would know more about the ramifications and would probably be more willing to help than a future residency director.

Third, look into whether or not drinking is becoming a problem in your life. DUIs don't automatically mean that you have a problem with drinking, but as someone who has been through addiction, I would recommend re-evaluating the role that drinking has played in your life before problems start accumulating and cleaning the mess up becomes harder.

Just my thoughts and experiences...

 

[Llenroc]

I am also an alky. In fact, I prefer driving drunk. It's funner that way. 😎

The trick is to not get caught. 👍

 

[maceo]

I would second the advice to get immediately involved with the PHP of your state. They will probably strongly advise you / "make" you get an approved assessment for alcoholism. Do it and please have an open mind. Many people go to be assessed and are in denial for quite a while. If it was really a one time mistake, then PLEASE GET A SECOND OPINION and consider consulting a lawyer. It will save you a whole lotta trouble later.

The PHP's job is to catch people before they destroy their lives and therefore they have an extremely dubious attitude toward anyone that presents to them. Let's face it...many addicts are habitual liars and these professionals get extremely jaded.

My personal story is this: I never have been arrested or gotten a DUI (I drove slightly intoxicated once and it really scared me). My typical drinking would be very sporadic. At the most it was one 12oz. beer every other day or so (on personal time, of course), and get fairly drunk after exams. I never, ever saw patients or even went to any class/to school with even a hint of alcohol in my system. I was in third year on IM rotation and got drunk on a Saturday night. I had a horrible hangover and arrived late to 10am rounds on Sunday morning. I was extremely paranoid, thinking that maybe I smelled of alcohol and would be reported. Naively, I thought that "self reporting" would be in my best interest. I told my attending (who really didn't care), and stupidly sent an email to a 4th year student to apologize. She kicked it up to administration and therefore it had to be 'dealt with.' I was sent to an alcohol assessment at Bradford in Birmingham.

Again, because I am naive, I told them absolutely everything about all alcohol use. I do not recommend intentionally withholding info during the assessment. However, it is imperative to realize that there is the mindset of guilty until proven innocent, and anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of treatment facility team. I strongly do not recommend going to Bradford for anything. People DO get sober there, but the program is very malignant in general, which is from personal experience and from friends who have completed treatment there.

Bradford recommended inpatient treatment. After 90 days of easy sobriety on my own, I went to MARR in Atlanta instead, which was in general a very good program. It cost over $24,000 for 90 days of treatment, which is actually as cheap as it gets.

Now I have five years of monitoring. This includes calling into a random drug screen service every single day, three AA meetings a week, and a group therapy meeting once a week.

I have lost a year of school, and have the stigma of being an alcoholic. After 90 days of inpatient treatment, 7 mos. of easy sobriety, and countless AA meetings, I still don't believe I am an alcoholic -I must have pathological denial 🙂! In all reality, I am still very afraid of my life potentially going that direction.

Take home is get to the PHP, get a second opinion/lawyer if needed, and be very open to the possibility that alcohol is a serious issue. I have come to know many people in healthcare whose lives have been absolutely wrecked by addiction. It's not something to mess with! But if it is not an issue, I hope my absolutely horrible experience will give some non-alcoholic one-time screw-ups some grace!

moral of this story... never ever ever volunteer information. ever

if asked.. answer truthfully but dont volunteer information

 

[2000 Man]

My situation is a bit different. I self reported as an alcoholic to my school after being dismissed in my second year. After getting help and getting sober I went back and explained what had happened. I was allowed to return and placed on a program similar to one that impaired physicians are placed on; random alcohol/drug screens, counseling AA... I was required to redo the first 2 years (which I think was a blessing) so when I am done I will have had 4 years of monitoring. There were no arrests, DUIs or any laws broken.

How do you think this will affect getting into a residency and getting licensed?

 

[kip44]

got a dui outside of my state while in my 3rd year, in 2008.
my school never found out.
i've graduated....
and i'm applying for this years match... will it affect my chances of matching or starting at a program when they do a background check?
can a program kick you out b4 you start due to the background check?
is this the end of my medical career?

 

[DrJosephKim]

Reach out to your state health program: Federation of State Physician Health Programs

They are the "experts" in this field.

 

[NinerNiner999]

Not sure if this matters or not, but had you graduated and "completed" your M.D. before you got your DUI? Perhaps getting a DUI as a non-doctor would have different rules that apply...

 

[JackADeli]

My situation is a bit different. I self reported as an alcoholic to my school after being dismissed in my second year. After getting help and getting sober I went back and explained what had happened. I was allowed to return and placed on a program similar to one that impaired physicians are placed on; random alcohol/drug screens, counseling AA... I was required to redo the first 2 years (which I think was a blessing) so when I am done I will have had 4 years of monitoring...

How do you think this will affect getting into a residency and getting licensed?

Most programs (probably ALL... I think this will be on the ERAS application) will require you to explain your prolonged medical school education, your dismissal, etc.... All states I have applied for a license specifically ask if you were dismissed from medical school or medical training. All states I have applied for a license specifically ask if you have ever been diagnosed and/or treated for substance abuse of any kind. Many ask if you have ever been diagnosed and/or treated for mania/bipolar disorder.

So, I do not know how your past will impact your future. I do know you will not be able to legitimately keep it secret. I do suspect your past will add some degrees of difficult to the path before you.

...How do you think this will affect getting into a residency and getting licensed?

You tell us.

Presumably, based on the scenario you have provided, you have far more personal experience in this matter and would have answers to your own questions. You should have better answers to share then anonymous posts on a forum. You were dismissed and readmitted under close monitoring supervision AND guidance. You would presumably have guidance and/or career counselors and such helping you move forward. You would presumably have faculty mentors.

Instead of asking questions you should already have the answers to, through the growing up, life experiences you describe, it would be nice if you simply provided the answers. Tell those less "experienced" what your guidance and career counselors are telling you. Tell those less "experienced" what you have found while investigating the multitude of concerns with state licensing boards. Someone with your "colorful" past experience would presumably show the initiative and maturity to have thoroughly investigated all of this as you return to repeat your initial medical school education.

 

[2000 Man]

Most programs (probably ALL... I think this will be on the ERAS application) will require you to explain your prolonged medical school education, your dismissal, etc.... All states I have applied for a license specifically ask if you were dismissed from medical school or medical training. All states I have applied for a license specifically ask if you have ever been diagnosed and/or treated for substance abuse of any kind. Many ask if you have ever been diagnosed and/or treated for mania/bipolar disorder.

So, I do not know how your past will impact your future. I do know you will not be able to legitimately keep it secret. I do suspect your past will add some degrees of difficult to the path before you.You tell us.

Presumably, based on the scenario you have provided, you have far more personal experience in this matter and would have answers to your own questions. You should have better answers to share then anonymous posts on a forum. You were dismissed and readmitted under close monitoring supervision AND guidance. You would presumably have guidance and/or career counselors and such helping you move forward. You would presumably have faculty mentors.

Instead of asking questions you should already have the answers to, through the growing up, life experiences you describe, it would be nice if you simply provided the answers. Tell those less "experienced" what your guidance and career counselors are telling you. Tell those less "experienced" what you have found while investigating the multitude of concerns with state licensing boards. Someone with your "colorful" past experience would presumably show the initiative and maturity to have thoroughly investigated all of this as you return to repeat your initial medical school education.

What is your problem? Why all the anger? I merely asked if anyone has some insight on my situation. I in no way intend to hide or try to cover up my past. Didn't think I even implied that. Sure I have investigated and researched my options and have had conversations with people at my school about my future but none of them have actually gone through it themselves. I was hoping someone who went through a similar situation might have a few thoughts. I would gladly share what I learn once it becomes more than speculation.

So chill out.

 

[JackADeli]

What is your problem? Why all the anger?...So chill out.

Am very chill and have no anger at all. I have no reason to be angry. Maybe, you should step back just a tad and not presume there is anger.

...I in no way intend to hide or try to cover up my past. Didn't think I even implied that...

Never read you as hiding anything nor do I read any implication you are hiding anything.

...Sure I have investigated and researched my options and have had conversations...I would gladly share what I learn once it becomes more than speculation...

That is unfortunate. Returning from a dismissal due to substance abuse generally entails a great deal not the least of which is a heart to heart with advisors and some reality check guidance. Your investigations and/or conversations with deans, counselors, licensing boards and/or checking licensing board websites should have elucidated far more then "speculation" at this point in your rehabilitation. I strongly encourage you to obtain more specific and detailed guidance from those at your program if this has not occurred already. We are talking about your future and it should be based on far more specifics then speculation and on-line forum chat.

As for others information, I have not gone through such a rehab type return situation. However, I suspect everyone (resident or licensed physician) on these forums and every resident in your program can at the very least relate to you some of the questions asked on ERAS applications and licensing applications. You may also want to check some licensing websites. They usually have periodic publications on disciplinary actions and/or reinstatements of rehabilitated physicians. You can then look up the rehab physician and often will find documents as to the process from "capture" to agreed upon "rehabilitation".

 

[JackADeli]

I know nothing about the linked/posted case. However, it is very similar to what I have seen on the east coast and in other states going towards the west. Check out the PDF case file posted in the FP forum

...I attached the pdf of one physician who had a prior dui so take a look!...

btw as a physician any action against you is public record, including your home address. just go to http://www.medbd.ca.gov/ the newsletter publishes all physicians who have had actions taken against them and then you can look up their license on the website for details...public info...
Attached Files

MyPDF3.pdf

 

[Cerberus]

moral of this story... never ever ever volunteer information. ever

if asked.. answer truthfully but dont volunteer information

Seriously. This is a pretty simple thing from a legal perspective. Anything you say can be used against you. Nothing you say can be used to help you. Keep quiet unless asked.

 

[avatarftw]

a

 

[Cerberus]

I hope you're joking.

Thank God for not drinking.

Seriously? You have to ask if someone who is a medical professional and says that they prefer to 'drive drunk because it is more fun' is being serious?🙄🙄 Sheesh, maybe you should have a drink and learn to lighten up.

 

[JackADeli]

Seriously? You have to ask if someone who is a medical professional and says that they prefer to 'drive drunk because it is more fun' is being serious?🙄🙄 Sheesh, maybe you should have a drink and learn to lighten up.

I have long since stopped presuming intellect or common sense based purely on ones claimed education or profession.... I mean seriously, did you see the claims and positions from medical students to attendings on the different options for healthcare!

Also, a little more seriously, you can look at all the states' medical board published healthcare provider adverse action reports for drugs, alcohol, criminal conduct, etc.....

Fortunately or unfortunately, numerous grades school, high school, and other juvenile and lay persons read these forums and/or proclaim a medical degree. Thus, I don't think anything wrong to reiterate a more rational perspective when a potential sarcastic comment as such has been made.

 

[avatarftw]

a

 

[needhlp]

I have a question for aPD.

I also made a extremely poor decision recently and now have a pending misdeamenor charge against me for dui. I have spoken to a lawyer and I'm following his advice. I do not know if this will result in conviction, acquital, or dismissed charges. This will likely be resolved later this coming year through the legal system. By the time I am starting residency next year, the issue will be resolved and I will answer any question regarding convictions truthfully of course.

My question is that I am currently filling out the ERAS app and I am not sure how to answer the question "Is there anything in your history that would limit your ability to be licensed or to receive hospital privileges?"

Do I need to go ahead and explain the situation on ERAS, even though the charge is pending? My lawyer said I do not need to list it since I will not have a conviction at the time of completing my ERAS app, but I wanted to get an opinion of a PD.

 

[JackADeli]

...My question is that I am currently filling out the ERAS app and I am not sure how to answer the question "Is there anything in your history that would limit your ability to be licensed or to receive hospital privileges?"

Do I need to go ahead and explain the situation on ERAS, even though the charge is pending? My lawyer said I do not need to list it since I will not have a conviction at the time of completing my ERAS app, but I wanted to get an opinion of a PD.

This is the deal.... check the state med boards of where you will be applying and check their applications. Many ask if you have only been charged, ask if you plead out, ask if the charges were dismissed through one path or another, etc.... i.e. many will ask if you have EVER been charged with DUI or drugs. They will ask if you were EVER arrested. If your answer is "yes" then the answer on your ERAS app is "yes". If the states you are applying to ask about criminal charges without concern for final conviction, you need to answer "yes" and explain.

 

[positiveadjust]

Sounds like you have a "Speedy Trial" issue. Go see an attorney right away. I think there are facts here that you are missing which are necessary to a determination. You should keep in mind that DUI laws are very complex

 

[MrBurns10]

Sounds like you have a "Speedy Trial" issue. Go see an attorney right away. I think there are facts here that you are missing which are necessary to a determination. You should keep in mind that DUI laws are very complex

If by "right away" you mean "8 months ago when this thread was created", then yes...