True or false? 90% applicants accepted to med school have research experience

[TragicalDrFaust]

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My prehealth adviser swear up and down that 9/10 students accepted to medical school have research but an oft-cited statistic by the power-hitters over at pre-med forum says a survey of admissions committees only place it at medium importance (for private schools) or low importance (for public schools). Can someone please set this straight for me?

 

[LongDucDong]

false

 

[Chibucks15]

My prehealth adviser swear up and down that 9/10 students accepted to medical school have research but an oft-cited statistic by the power-hitters over at pre-med forum says a survey of admissions committees only place it at medium importance (for private schools) or low importance (for public schools). Can someone please set this straight for me?

No way does 90% of acceptances have experience. That's an absurdly high amount. I would guess more at like 65% tops and I'm even kinda doubting its that high

 

[Aerus]

I can't speak to the validity of the percentage claim, but 90% seems very high overall. I think the percentage also varies depending on which school you attend. This is very anecdotal to my school (a UC school), so take it with lumps of salt:

I definitely haven't asked most of my classmates, but so far, there isn't a single person I have asked who didn't do research in undergrad in some capacity. I would estimate at least a third of the people who I asked have at least one publication and most of them at least had a poster under their belt.

 

[deleted480308]

No way

 

[21Rush12]

My prehealth adviser

 

[Levrone]

From what I can remember, the MSAR for almost every school also has near 90 percent of students with some research experience

 

[Overwatch]

I don't think it really matters what the stats say, if you are capable of getting research then do it. It can only help.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Wouldn’t surprise me because everyone and their dog does something that can technically be filed under the “research” category. I’m also pretty sure this data is in MSAR.

 

[Redpancreas]

Wouldn’t surprise me because everyone and their dog does something that can technically be filed under the “research” category. I’m also pretty sure this data is in MSAR.

This OP. Everyone tries to file something in this category so even if they did some volunteer work to help a research project along for a week, it would be included.

 

[MrTaco92]

For MD schools I wouldn't be surprised if that was true. You also have to realize that checking off the research box on your application could also entail those 2 month summer programs where the students do nothing beyond a couple of PCR's. Or even clinical research volunteer gigs where the student does nothing more than look for potentially eligible patients to enroll into ongoing studies. The majority of that 90% probably never had a project to work on. But you should still consider getting some kind of exposure so you can check off the research box to be a part of the 90%

 

[Winged Scapula]

Moving to Pre-med forum

 

[Gilakend]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was 90%

 

[altblue]

Wouldn’t surprise me because everyone and their dog does something that can technically be filed under the “research” category. I’m also pretty sure this data is in MSAR.

1 credit of independent research or glassware cleaning for your major = research

 

[efle]

There's data for this. Matriculating questionnaire says 60%, so a majority but not nearly 90%

 

[Goro]

My prehealth adviser swear up and down that 9/10 students accepted to medical school have research but an oft-cited statistic by the power-hitters over at pre-med forum says a survey of admissions committees only place it at medium importance (for private schools) or low importance (for public schools). Can someone please set this straight for me?

Very interesting question. Before I looked at MSAR, I guessed that 85-90% of matriculants had research experience.

A random sampling of MSAR for the first year class tells us they have the following %iles for "research/lab experience":


Harvard: 98
Stanford: 97
Wash U: 96
Case: 96
Hofstra:92
Rush: 92
Drexel: 91
Wake: 89
U MN: 89
Loyola: 89
SLU: 89
Geisinger: 88
Albany: 86
MCG: 86
Morehouse: 81
Howard: 79
U AR: 75
U ND: 73
Mercer: 73
U MO-KS: 73
U KS: 62%

So your advisor is wrong, but an interest pattern emerges. I perceive the mission-based schools place the least amount of emphasis. The research powerhouses clearly like it. But even Drexel/Albany class schools like it, or what is probably more accurate, pre-meds do research because they think it's important, but not the schools. This may also reflect the research opportunities that are at feeder schools.

I surmise that the more rural the school, the less research the matriculants will have. And sure enough:
U South AL: 83
SIU: 77
NEOMED: 30!

 

[Robin-jay]

I don't know why people are so allergic to research.

Just do it lol.

People boo hooing about having to do some research. Is the scientific method that scary?

 

[RinShanKaiHo]

Just some weeks of research are not going to impress the adcom. I would estimate, that 20 % ish of all matriculated students have some sort of publication. And less than 5 percent. Probably only 1 percent or less have first author publication. The experience of doing an autonomous and complete research project resulting in a first author publication is definitely something that proves your academic capacity and valued by the adcom, being md or mdphd program.

 

[Gilakend]

There's data for this. Matriculating questionnaire says 60%, so a majority but not nearly 90%

35% international volunteering?! I'm stunned by that.

 

[BombsAway]

Guess i'm in the 10% that like to play outside.

 

[Isoval]

Very interesting question. Before I looked at MSAR, I guessed that 85-90% of matriculants had research experience.

A random sampling of MSAR for the first year class tells us they have the following %iles for "research/lab experience":


Harvard: 98
Stanford: 97
Wash U: 96
Case: 96
Hofstra:92
Rush: 92
Drexel: 91
Wake: 89
U MN: 89
Loyola: 89
SLU: 89
Geisinger: 88
Albany: 86
MCG: 86
Morehouse: 81
Howard: 79
U AR: 75
U ND: 73
Mercer: 73
U MO-KS: 73
U KS: 62%

So your advisor is wrong, but an interest pattern emerges. I perceive the mission-based schools place the least amount of emphasis. The research powerhouses clearly like it. But even Drexel/Albany class schools like it, or what is probably more accurate, pre-meds do research because they think it's important, but not the schools. This may also reflect the research opportunities that are at feeder schools.

I surmise that the more rural the school, the less research the matriculants will have. And sure enough:
U South AL: 83
SIU: 77
NEOMED: 30!

I think Goro nailed it.

As a general rule, no, “90% of matriculants” do NOT have research experience.

However, if the underlying question here was “will research significantly boost my chances?”, your mileage may very depending on the school. Schools that are research powerhouses (most top schools and a few others here and there) tend to place heavier emphasis on research while those that are not place less. You can find this information on a school-by-school basis in MSAR, as Goro has.

The takeaway should be: pick your battles wisely when applying.

 

[Robin-jay]

Guess i'm in the 10% that like to play outside.

You had 0 research experience?

 

[Lucca]

Guess i'm in the 10% that like to play outside.

You can do research outside. A friend from UG spent a summer running around the Galapagos for their research project.

 

[Cornfed101]

Is the scientific method that scary?

Microscopes give me ulcers

 

[getdown]

I don't know why people are so allergic to research.

Just do it lol.

People boo hooing about having to do some research. Is the scientific method that scary?

It's not scary but it is a huge waste of time if you're not interested in it. Sure you can come in once a week, wash some glassware, maybe even pipette a few things and you can check that box like most premeds do for volunteering. But if you want to do it right and hope to get a paper out of it you're gonna have to put in some substantial work. You think the PI is just gonna give some random premed a promising project just because you want to do some research? Or the grad/PhD student is just gonna let you work on his project that he needs to graduate?

I've never understood the fascination by medical schools about applicants doing bench research. Maybe it's selection bias since those in adcoms/interviewers are very academic and think research is important. But for a majority of practicing physicians not in academia, doing any kind of bench research is a total waste of time.

 

[tiramisucheese]

You had 0 research experience?

My friend had absolutely 0 research experience and was invited to interview at 12 MD schools, including one that is considered a research powerhouse. It's not unheard of.

 

[tiramisucheese]

There's data for this. Matriculating questionnaire says 60%, so a majority but not nearly 90%

This chart is a bit misleading for that particular statistic as it references only laboratory research. Not all research takes place in a lab, so I expect the number is actually a bit higher.

 

[ndafife]

My friend had absolutely 0 research experience and was invited to interview at 12 MD schools, including one that is considered a research powerhouse. It's not unheard of.

And there are people in my class that only applied to 1 school. Just because there are some exceptions doesn't mean you should do it.

And if you want to do anything remotely competitive in residency you're going to need research so start to get a little bit of a feel for it now.

 

[deleted804295]

My prehealth adviser swear up and down that 9/10 students accepted to medical school have research but an oft-cited statistic by the power-hitters over at pre-med forum says a survey of admissions committees only place it at medium importance (for private schools) or low importance (for public schools). Can someone please set this straight for me?

I think you misheard the adviser. It might be 90% of students at your university's med school have some research experience (that's how it is at my school) but not 90% of med school applicants.

@Robin-jay I agree about people just needing to go out and do research. I had an incredible amount of fun with my past research experience and I would do it all over again if I could.

 

[bananafish94]

I would believe that 90% did slightly more than zero "research". I would bet that significantly less than that did substantive research (which is totally fine, it's not for everyone).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I think you misheard the adviser. It might be 90% of students at your university's med school have some research experience (that's how it is at my school) but not 90% of med school applicants.

@Robin-jay I agree about people just needing to go out and do research. I had an incredible amount of fun with my past research experience and I would do it all over again if I could.

The cool thing about humans is that not everyone has the same experiences or have the same preferences.

 

[LizzyM]

Correlation does not prove causation. You can't say for certain that applicants were or were not admitted BECAUSE they had or did not have research experience. You could ask applicants if they've ever consumed cow's milk and find a very high proportion of admitted applicants have done so. This doesn't make cow's milk consumption an unwritten requirement for admission. That said, if you want to play it safe you'll drink your milk and get some research experience.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

And if you want to do anything remotely competitive in residency you're going to need research so start to get a little bit of a feel for it now.

Medical school research is far different than undergrad research.

 

[ndafife]

Medical school research is far different than undergrad research.

Not sure what your point is? And at least for my 1st 2 years it really wasn't that much different, but I was doing bench work at that time.

My having experience from undergrad has made it much easier to find people to help me do research in medical school. It demonstrates interest and shows you should have at lest some level of competency in the lab/with the research process in general.

 

[21Rush12]

Medical school research is far different than undergrad research.

Learning this fact was one of the best moments of med school so far.

 

[DBC03]

@REL had some interesting things to say on this statistic at our interview day at UCF - the MSAR gets its numbers from how students categorize their activities. He stated the actual research was quite a bit less as many students will call certain activities research when that might not be the correct description.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[efle]

AMCAS reports 84% of enrollees (matriculants) have reported research experience on their Primary Application

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...-942e-73ae7071cbba/amcas_infographic_2016.pdf
(see attached)
View attachment 229507

Hmm so does this mean 15% of people put a primary entry under research/lab that they don't think qualifies as a formal mentored research experience?

 

[boogiecousins94]

curious how many of them have substantial research experience from full time jobs during gap years etc. not just undergrad once a week

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Not sure what your point is? And at least for my 1st 2 years it really wasn't that much different, but I was doing bench work at that time.

My having experience from undergrad has made it much easier to find people to help me do research in medical school. It demonstrates interest and shows you should have at lest some level of competency in the lab/with the research process in general.

Ah you did bench research which makes sense. In that context yeah it could help but most medical students don’t do bench research. I am glad to say I will never set foot in a wet lab ever again and most of my research so far is clinical or meta analysis based which is far different than the bench research I did in ug.

curious how many of them have substantial research experience from full time jobs during gap years etc. not just undergrad once a week

Not many. Few applicants have research profiles that could be considered substantial.

 

[RinShanKaiHo]

Ah you did bench research which makes sense. In that context yeah it could help but most medical students don’t do bench research. I am glad to say I will never set foot in a wet lab ever again and most of my research so far is clinical or meta analysis based which is far different than the bench research I did in ug.



Not many. Few applicants have research profiles that could be considered substantial.

The thing to learn from undergrad research is the methodology of scientific inquiry itself. However many undergrads, very unfortunately don't learn this and just walk into the lab and pipette. Then this is a huge waste of time. If you are able to actually learn how to do research, and do an autonomous project, research is super helpful in getting you in and getting you through med school. Be it bench research or clinical/transnational. Nothing different from volunteering or gpa, MCAT. If you just work a little bit on it, you won't gain much. Only if you spend some effort, and actually use your brain to think about it, you gain from the experience and it will help you in med school or outside.

 

[boogiecousins94]

Not many. Few applicants have research profiles that could be considered substantial.

Yea I was just curious because I've been doing that for almost 2 years with 3 papers and 4 abstracts etc. and at one of my interviews they really didnt care at all to the point that I was afraid to mention research since it seemed like they didnt have any interest in it at all.

Definitely made me realize that the importance of research in terms of applications is probably blown out of proportion, or at least this particular school

 

[LizzyM]

Yea I was just curious because I've been doing that for almost 2 years with 3 papers and 4 abstracts etc. and at one of my interviews they really didnt care at all to the point that I was afraid to mention research since it seemed like they didnt have any interest in it at all.

Definitely made me realize that the importance of research in terms of applications is probably blown out of proportion, or at least this particular school

It could also be the case that the application readers saw that you were very interested and involved in research and asked the interviewer to probe deeper into your humanistic qualities, your clinical exposure, community service, leadership, etc.

 

[calivianya]

I don't know why people are so allergic to research.

Just do it lol.

People boo hooing about having to do some research. Is the scientific method that scary?

No, working significant hours per week for free is scary when you have bills to pay. As a previous poster mentioned, it's hard to get something significant like a pub out of research if you're just phoning it in for a couple hours a week. It takes more time than that.

It's a little hard to work a full time job, go to school full time with only hard science courses, and volunteer simultaneously... and then also have time for significant (unpaid) research experience. There are only so many hours in a week - something had to be sacrificed, and it sure as heck wasn't going to be my mortgage payment. So, I applied with zero research.

 

[frosted2]

My prehealth adviser swear up and down that 9/10 students accepted to medical school have research but an oft-cited statistic by the power-hitters over at pre-med forum says a survey of admissions committees only place it at medium importance (for private schools) or low importance (for public schools). Can someone please set this straight for me?

There is your problem.
There is a handy little feature on MSAR (I would take a screen shot but I don't prefer to be on AAMCs bad side before I even apply) where you can see the number of matriculants (maybe even applicants) who have research experience.

 

[Robin-jay]

No, working significant hours per week for free is scary when you have bills to pay. As a previous poster mentioned, it's hard to get something significant like a pub out of research if you're just phoning it in for a couple hours a week. It takes more time than that.

It's a little hard to work a full time job, go to school full time with only hard science courses, and volunteer simultaneously... and then also have time for significant (unpaid) research experience. There are only so many hours in a week - something had to be sacrificed, and it sure as heck wasn't going to be my mortgage payment. So, I applied with zero research.

I worked part-time all throughout undergrad and did research.
I was paid during my graduate program when doing research.

You don't need a publication, just substantial research probably looks good.

Paying for a mortgage? That's not good or bad but most people sacrifice house living to live with roommates so that they are more financially stable and can do the things they need to do during college. You chose the house life, so you chose to give up certain things on your app. That's not "research's" fault. You don't need a publication, just substantial research probably looks good. I emphasize with your situation of course! But I think most people (not you) that don't do research is due to laziness and intimidation of the scientific method.

 

[Robin-jay]

My friend had absolutely 0 research experience and was invited to interview at 12 MD schools, including one that is considered a research powerhouse. It's not unheard of.

Those holistic II's lol.

 

[Robin-jay]

It's not scary but it is a huge waste of time if you're not interested in it. Sure you can come in once a week, wash some glassware, maybe even pipette a few things and you can check that box like most premeds do for volunteering. But if you want to do it right and hope to get a paper out of it you're gonna have to put in some substantial work. You think the PI is just gonna give some random premed a promising project just because you want to do some research? Or the grad/PhD student is just gonna let you work on his project that he needs to graduate?

I've never understood the fascination by medical schools about applicants doing bench research. Maybe it's selection bias since those in adcoms/interviewers are very academic and think research is important. But for a majority of practicing physicians not in academia, doing any kind of bench research is a total waste of time.

Then be competent enough to not do bench research.

One of the most competent "undergraduate" students in my lab working for us "graduate" students wasn't there all the time, but when he was there, he was very reliable with what he did and was able to help me get a publication done faster.

80% of undergrads in my lab never get past benchwork because they never complete the preliminary reactions with good results. I had one undergraduate applying to medical school who actually used the techniques I used to optimize my reaction for a publication, which was an actual contribution.

 

[LizzyM]

No, working significant hours per week for free is scary when you have bills to pay.

No one says you can't get a job in a lab and be paid for your research.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

I don't know why people are so allergic to research.

Just do it lol.

People boo hooing about having to do some research. Is the scientific method that scary?

Quite the opposite. I see how being involved in research is a valuable experience but it would add another year before I can apply to medical school. I took three gap years between high school and undergrad to save money for undergrad. Undergrad's taking an extra year because I took classes part time so I could keep working full time my first year (still working part time as a scribe and barista currently). Then I'm taking a year after undergrad to study for the MCAT, volunteer and shadow physicians. I don't hesitate at the research itself. I only question if it's the most effective use of my time.

 

[LizzyM]

Quite the opposite. I see how being involved in research is a valuable experience but it would add another year before I can apply to medical school. I took three gap years between high school and undergrad to save money for undergrad. Undergrad's taking an extra year because I took classes part time so I could keep working full time my first year (still working part time as a scribe and barista currently). Then I'm taking a year after undergrad to study for the MCAT, volunteer and shadow physicians. I don't hesitate at the research itself. I only question if it's the most effective use of my time.

studying for the MCAT, volunteering and shadowing doesn't have to take 80 hours/wk. You could easily be employed in a lab during that period and still study etc. I've interviewed folks this year that did just that.