True Parity

[fivescrew]

I understand what you all are saying and I agree that anyone calling themselves a physician should have more than basic knowledge of how the whole body works. Afterall, your teeth don't just walk into a dental office or your feet by themselves to the podiatrists office.

I guess I just don't see the point in it. If current DPM education, training and licensing allows you to do what you were taught and what you planned on doing then why bother trying to fit into someone's idea of what a doctor should be. Where would the line be drawn? Should dentists have to take the USMLE? Would more overall anatomy and physiology make them better oral physicians?

Seems like a slippery slope and one that can only serve to drive away prospective students from both medical and podiatric medical school.

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[TheBee]

You are misunderstanding this. We've been annointed "not real doctors" by the MD/DO community because we don't go to medical school and don't take their board exams (USMLE/COMLEX). If we were to ever gain true parity in their eyes then we would eventually have to take more classes with the MD/DO students and eventually take their board exams. Will this make us better podiatrists? I dont think so but we will be podiatrists with a greater understanding of the basic sciences (again just my opinion).

I'm pretty sure Dr. Harkless felt podiatry students should have the same basic science knowledge as medical students and should take the USMLE therefore he created a program like Western. The only real way to be equivalent with the DO students at Western is to do basically everything they do.

Personally I feel this is great for the profession because if Western graduates prove to be the "cream of the crop", due to their overall knowledge and training, it might put pressure on the rest of the schools to have their students take more classes with medical students. DMU and AZPOD take all their first year courses with the DO students at their respective schools. Scholl takes two classes with MD students (Gross and Essentials of clinical reasoning I) in the P1 year and NOW take pathology (starting this year) and essentials of clinical reasoning II with the M2 students during the P2 year.

Some students from stand alone colleges might differ from my opinions and thats fine. BUT if we are ultimately going to move towards taking the USMLE exam (which I don't think will be happening any time soon) then I feel taking more classes with the medical students is in order.

If we never take the USMLE and keep taking the APMLE exams then I feel the way the schools are structured now is sufficient for producing competent future podiatrists. Our educational and clinical training in the foot and ankle are far above anything that any other medical school could ever teach their students. They simply don't spend the same amount of time nor attempt to go into the same depth that we do.

It boggles my mind that some orthos would have the audacity to say we don't know what we are doing when it comes to treating the foot and ankle when they damn well know they barely touched the lower extremity in gross anatomy and only got <6 months of surgical training with the foot and ankle during their ortho residency program.

Scholl has been taking path with the med students for two years now, but not all of our classes are together (we get special lectures on diabetes). We also take other courses with other specialties such as pharm with the certified nurse anesthetist students and neuro with the PT students. There's a lot of interprofessionalism going on here **insert warm, fuzzy feeling**

I think it'd be a great idea for the DPM/MD curriculum to be integrated. I think they would benefit a lot from the additions our curriculum would add to thiers as well, esp in diabetes and MSK. However would I be excited to have a whole course on embryology, I'm not gonna lie....not so much.

I will say this, since I have been out doing rotations, and working with a lot of MD students, I've found I am just as competent as they are when it comes to treating patients. Plus I have them coming to me for most of their MSK questions. If you're a good student and work hard at not just podiatry, but medicine, surgery, etc etc, you will find you are on level ground with your MD counterpars. IMHO.

 

[janV88]

Thebee,

From what the upperclassman have told me, Scholl took most of the lectures with the M2s but the exams weren't the same. Next year the P2s will be taking 100% of th course with the M2s. All the same lectures, exams, etc.

 

[TheBee]

Thebee,

From what the upperclassman have told me, Scholl took most of the lectures with the M2s but the exams weren't the same. Next year the P2s will be taking 100% of th course with the M2s. All the same lectures, exams, etc.

Yeah it's weird. I'm a P4, and when I was a P1/P2 our exams were the same for the courses we took together, minus the couple of extra aforementioned lectures we had on diabetes, lower-specific stuff, etc. From what I have learned talking to the c/o 2013 is, a lot of the exams that used to be the same, were different for the pods and CMS students in their year. This is because CMS switched to a system-based exam style, where every couple of weeks or so they had a test on a system that was a smaller number of questions, and all of their courses corresponded to the system of interest. Concurrently, the pod students took exams that covered multiple systems.

I think it's a good thing if they are planning on changing this so we take the same exams as the CMS students. I think we can hang

 

[ScootDoc]

You obviously spelled curriculum wrong on purpose, because you are a smart person and here you are right. If you want unlimited scope, go to MD/DO school. The people driving this change for an all surgical profession and parity with MD/DO are the ones with a napolean complex. If you look down on this field of podiatry so much that you need to have parity with MD/DO to feel good about yourself, then go to MD/DO school. Podiatry is its own field with its scope that treats its subset of the patients. We don't need unlimited scope, and what for, just to lose it again by specializing in foot and ankle? (Foot and ankle orthopedists have limited scope as well, all specialists do).

I don't want to do an MD/DO residency, thats why I chose to come to podiatry. Should we be viewed as equals? Yes, and largely we already are. The orthopedists of Cali view us as equals already! Few people look down on podiatry, and they are the misinformed ones or premeds and pod students. Once your white coat says Dr. Smith, your patients don't care what letters are hanging around after your name, as long as you are competent and treat them well.

WRONG!!! As an orthopedic resident should I choose to pursue fellowship training in foot/ankle I am only broadening my scope not limiting it. After all, I will be not only a board certified FA surgeon, but also board certified orthopedic surgeon. In short this means my scope will not stop below the knee. Your so called "parity" will not offer you a change in scope. No matter how you spin it you are and will be Podiatrists and you should be ok with that. It's what you're trained for.

 

[jonwill]

WRONG!!! As an orthopedic resident should I choose to pursue fellowship training in foot/ankle I am only broadening my scope not limiting it. After all, I will be not only a board certified FA surgeon, but also board certified orthopedic surgeon. In short this means my scope will not stop below the knee. Your so called "parity" will not offer you a change in scope. No matter how you spin it you are and will be Podiatrists and you should be ok with that. It's what you're trained for.

I think his point was that all physicians have a limited scope. Scope is limited by training. Ortho would never attempt to fix a AAA or do a fem-pop bypass and an FP doc would never attempt a TTFN. It all comes down to hospital privileging really.

 

[Ankle Breaker]

No matter how you spin it you are and will be Podiatrists and you should be ok with that. It's what you're trained for.

From an ortho resident standpoint, what's your interpretation of a podiatrist's training?

 

[JaggerPlate]

I think his point was that all physicians have a limited scope. Scope is limited by training. Ortho would never attempt to fix a AAA or do a fem-pop bypass and an FP doc would never attempt a TTFN. It all comes down to hospital privileging really.

While this is definitely true, it skirts a point that I personally think is ignored many times in these 'who is a physician/who should do what' discussions ...

While it's true that a FP doc wouldn't attempt bypass surgery nor would a CT surgeon treat grandma's cold, technically with an unrestricted license, unlimited funds for malpractice, and some access to a lax private surgical center/office ... they could. It "wouldn't happen," but that doesn't mean that there is some overriding restriction inherent within the "physician and surgeon" license that makes it impossible (as far as I know). Moonlighting during residency, various fields working in emergency rooms in small towns, and urgent care centers that take pretty much anyone with a DO/MD are a good example of this.

However ... the same can't be said for a DPM license. Even more realistically too, if that Ortho surgeon wants to fix a broken arm, a broken rib, replace a hip, and put some screws in the tib/fib ... he/she can. Again, the same can't be said for a DPM F/A surgeon.

I guess the point I'm trying to get at here is tres fold ...

1. Despite the fact that residency and common sense prevents DO/MDs from running wild and playing cowboy with scalpels, there are more restrictions inherent in the DPM license compared to the DO/MD license and they arise from a more complex situation than limitations based upon post-graduate training.

2. Another large difference that transcends practicing within one's specialization involves the difference between a 4th year medical student entering residency and a 4th year pod student entering residency ... if a medical student wants, he/she can become a dermatologist, a FM doc, a surgeon, an OB/GYN, an Orthopod, etc, etc, etc. A DPM student, on the other hand, knows exactly what they will be entering and is restricted (though not in a bad way as it's what they signed up for) to F/A surgery.

I've heard the argument many times that DPMs are simply physicians who specialize from the beginning of school (which many individuals think is more focused and advantageous to practice), but I think it's odd now that people are looking for some sort of bigger blanket ideal where DPMs should specialize from the beginning but also have privileges and a lack of restrictions comparable to those docs who don't specialize from the beginning, cover a larger/more vague educational experience and then enter a variety of different fields (basing this mainly off the discussed press release).

Which is it ... is it better to specialize from the beginning, enter a residency program which requires you to undergo the pre-doctoral specialized training, and limit yourself to said area? Or is it better to enter a more generalized medical model, pick a field, and really 'specialize' then? In my book, it's one or the other, but not some confusing combination of both (which is frankly something I see in the press release originally discussed in this thread).

3. As far as I know ... Podiatry is not an ACGME or AOA accredited residency program in the same vein as derm, FM, surgery, etc, etc. Because of this, I think it's kind off odd to state that the only difference between a Pod and an orthopod (for example) is that they chose different specializations. I think the difference between a dermatologist and an orthopod is that they chose different specializations, but when DPMs don't even have the option of becoming something else and DO/MDs don't have the option of becoming Pods, I simply think there are deeper differences than those usually discussed in these threads.

Having said all this ... I wanted to state that I think DPMs are great at what they do and I'll refer 10 times out of 10 to DPMs for any sort of F/A problems, no doubt in my mind. However, I do think this current issue with 'parity' is confusing and to me it seems like it boils down to DPMs wanting more recognition and reimbursement for performing the same procedures as Orthopods, which I see as completely fair, BUT I wish they would just come out and say that.

Frankly, the involvement of the LCME and support of Ortho groups makes me suspicious as to what they want to do with Podiatry as a field in CA, but this has been discussed before and I don't want to get into it again.

 

[shenanigans327]

From an ortho resident standpoint, what's your interpretation of a podiatrist's training?

n/m

 

[sorham]

it seems like it boils down to DPMs wanting more recognition and reimbursement for performing the same procedures as Orthopods, which I see as completely fair.

I agree...To me this is about it. I don't personally care about people thinking we are the same as DOs or MDs, it comes down to just getting the recognition for the work we do on the foot and ankle, getting reimbursed equally for the same procedures etc. All the talk about getting MD degrees and such is talk from insecure students who used podiatry as a backup and are now looking for ways to show others, 'hey I'm a doctor'. I'm glad to be getting a DPM desgree, that's what i'm going to school for and all I need. If I wanted to be an MD or DO I would have gone to those schools.

 

[Footsurg]

Personally, in my opinion any opportunity to move the profession forward is a good one. I don't blame the medical community for looking down on us a little. Our entrance standards are for the most part much lower on average. Our average residency training (in years) is lower (compared to other surgical fields).

We should prepare for and take the USMLE. We studied the USMLE materials for our part one boards at DMU and it was not really rocket science. I think we should have to study alongside MD/DO counterparts and take the same exams if we want to be treated on the same level. Having some mystery education that is "all about feet" only leads the medical community to believe we recieve a substandard medical education, wherther we do or not.

Our top podiatry students at DMU scored the same or higher than the top DO students. I am positive they could prepare for and pass the USMLE.

The bar needs to be raised a little for Podiatry school entrance and classwork. Too many schools, too many students, and standards that are too low for some schools in my opinion.

 

[dtrack22]

Our top podiatry students at DMU scored the same or higher than the top DO students. I am positive they could prepare for and pass the USMLE.

The bar needs to be raised a little for Podiatry school entrance and classwork. Too many schools, too many students, and standards that are too low for some schools in my opinion.

The second paragraph is why the USMLE would be a bad idea right now. Would the top half of the students at any of the schools pass the USMLE? Of course. But the bottom half is a whole 'nother story. I've heard various academicians in our profession throw around numbers (purely speculative based on comparative entrance stats and exam scores over the first two years of school) that suggest around 60-70% of pod students would pass the USMLE. That's not good enough.

But it doesn't really matter because we can't take it.

The only benefit to a more unrestricted license in CA, in my opinion, is that it sets precedent for states like South Carolina where you can't touch the ankle as well as states like North Carolina where you can only touch the ankle in certain facilities. Hopefully CA would open the door for other states simply to catch up to the rest of the country. I should add Medicaid reimbursements to this short list of benefits as well.

Otherwise, I still don't see how any of the CA stuff would change how any DPM practices.

 

[jonwill]

While this is definitely true, it skirts a point that I personally think is ignored many times in these 'who is a physician/who should do what' discussions ...

While it's true that a FP doc wouldn't attempt bypass surgery nor would a CT surgeon treat grandma's cold, technically with an unrestricted license, unlimited funds for malpractice, and some access to a lax private surgical center/office ... they could. It "wouldn't happen," but that doesn't mean that there is some overriding restriction inherent within the "physician and surgeon" license that makes it impossible (as far as I know). Moonlighting during residency, various fields working in emergency rooms in small towns, and urgent care centers that take pretty much anyone with a DO/MD are a good example of this.

However ... the same can't be said for a DPM license. Even more realistically too, if that Ortho surgeon wants to fix a broken arm, a broken rib, replace a hip, and put some screws in the tib/fib ... he/she can. Again, the same can't be said for a DPM F/A surgeon.

I guess the point I'm trying to get at here is tres fold ...

1. Despite the fact that residency and common sense prevents DO/MDs from running wild and playing cowboy with scalpels, there are more restrictions inherent in the DPM license compared to the DO/MD license and they arise from a more complex situation than limitations based upon post-graduate training.

2. Another large difference that transcends practicing within one's specialization involves the difference between a 4th year medical student entering residency and a 4th year pod student entering residency ... if a medical student wants, he/she can become a dermatologist, a FM doc, a surgeon, an OB/GYN, an Orthopod, etc, etc, etc. A DPM student, on the other hand, knows exactly what they will be entering and is restricted (though not in a bad way as it's what they signed up for) to F/A surgery.

I've heard the argument many times that DPMs are simply physicians who specialize from the beginning of school (which many individuals think is more focused and advantageous to practice), but I think it's odd now that people are looking for some sort of bigger blanket ideal where DPMs should specialize from the beginning but also have privileges and a lack of restrictions comparable to those docs who don't specialize from the beginning, cover a larger/more vague educational experience and then enter a variety of different fields (basing this mainly off the discussed press release).

Which is it ... is it better to specialize from the beginning, enter a residency program which requires you to undergo the pre-doctoral specialized training, and limit yourself to said area? Or is it better to enter a more generalized medical model, pick a field, and really 'specialize' then? In my book, it's one or the other, but not some confusing combination of both (which is frankly something I see in the press release originally discussed in this thread).

3. As far as I know ... Podiatry is not an ACGME or AOA accredited residency program in the same vein as derm, FM, surgery, etc, etc. Because of this, I think it's kind off odd to state that the only difference between a Pod and an orthopod (for example) is that they chose different specializations. I think the difference between a dermatologist and an orthopod is that they chose different specializations, but when DPMs don't even have the option of becoming something else and DO/MDs don't have the option of becoming Pods, I simply think there are deeper differences than those usually discussed in these threads.

Having said all this ... I wanted to state that I think DPMs are great at what they do and I'll refer 10 times out of 10 to DPMs for any sort of F/A problems, no doubt in my mind. However, I do think this current issue with 'parity' is confusing and to me it seems like it boils down to DPMs wanting more recognition and reimbursement for performing the same procedures as Orthopods, which I see as completely fair, BUT I wish they would just come out and say that.

Frankly, the involvement of the LCME and support of Ortho groups makes me suspicious as to what they want to do with Podiatry as a field in CA, but this has been discussed before and I don't want to get into it again.

All good points (although I did just plate a tib/fib fx). You are absolutely correct in that there are obvious differences in degree. The point I was trying to make is that in the end, it doesn't much matter. Everyone practices within the training that they received, we all refer to each other, and we generally all get along.

 

[JaggerPlate]

All good points (although I did just plate a tib/fib fx). You are absolutely correct in that there are obvious differences in degree. The point I was trying to make is that in the end, it doesn't much matter. Everyone practices within the training that they received, we all refer to each other, and we generally all get along.

Completely agree.

 

[Footsurg]

All good points (although I did just plate a tib/fib fx). You are absolutely correct in that there are obvious differences in degree. The point I was trying to make is that in the end, it doesn't much matter. Everyone practices within the training that they received, we all refer to each other, and we generally all get along.

Wait a second, I was told in Podiatry school by one of my professors that Podiatrists don't do pilon fractures or distal Tib Fibs. Come on now Jon Will, are you telling me that Dr. "you know who" was lying to us all along" Can we really do that stuff?

 

[jonwill]

Wait a second, I was told in Podiatry school by one of my professors that Podiatrists don't do pilon fractures or distal Tib Fibs. Come on now Jon Will, are you telling me that Dr. "you know who" was lying to us all along" Can we really do that stuff?

You know what they say, "Fake it till you make it."

 

[347932]

Wait a second, I was told in Podiatry school by one of my professors that Podiatrists don't do pilon fractures or distal Tib Fibs. Come on now Jon Will, are you telling me that Dr. "you know who" was lying to us all along" Can we really do that stuff?

The only people who can answer that question definitively are the people that represent podiatry on the credentialing committee of the hospital you are looking to get privileges at.

Short answer: Yes, we can really do that stuff.

 

[Podophile]

The only people who can answer that question definitively are the people that represent podiatry on the credentialing committee of the hospital you are looking to get privileges at.

Short answer: Yes, we can really do that stuff.

This is correct. There are obviously some states that don't allow it, and one I heard even specifically has in writing that we can do ankle fractures excluding pilon fractures.

With a high complication rate and great chance of future ankle arthritis requiring a fusion, I personally don't have much of a desire to treat pilon fractures. It is awesome that skilled podiatrists like jonwill can and do treat them regularly. And I'm sure they'll be fun to whack in residency when you don't have to worry about the followup.

 

[Footsurg]

The only people who can answer that question definitively are the people that represent podiatry on the credentialing committee of the hospital you are looking to get privileges at.

Short answer: Yes, we can really do that stuff.

I know we can do "that stuff" I made a failed attempt at being facetious. Jon Will and I have done plenty of "that stuff."

In reality, I think the profession is moving forward positively. More and more of us are able to more complex/advanced procedures as we get excellent residency training.

I would make sure you land a good residency as your connections from residency (Ortho attendings etc.) can really dictate what you will do when you get out.

Peace out long live D-town

 

[PADPM]

While this is definitely true, it skirts a point that I personally think is ignored many times in these 'who is a physician/who should do what' discussions ...

While it's true that a FP doc wouldn't attempt bypass surgery nor would a CT surgeon treat grandma's cold, technically with an unrestricted license, unlimited funds for malpractice, and some access to a lax private surgical center/office ... they could. It "wouldn't happen," but that doesn't mean that there is some overriding restriction inherent within the "physician and surgeon" license that makes it impossible (as far as I know). Moonlighting during residency, various fields working in emergency rooms in small towns, and urgent care centers that take pretty much anyone with a DO/MD are a good example of this.

However ... the same can't be said for a DPM license. Even more realistically too, if that Ortho surgeon wants to fix a broken arm, a broken rib, replace a hip, and put some screws in the tib/fib ... he/she can. Again, the same can't be said for a DPM F/A surgeon.

I guess the point I'm trying to get at here is tres fold ...

1. Despite the fact that residency and common sense prevents DO/MDs from running wild and playing cowboy with scalpels, there are more restrictions inherent in the DPM license compared to the DO/MD license and they arise from a more complex situation than limitations based upon post-graduate training.

2. Another large difference that transcends practicing within one's specialization involves the difference between a 4th year medical student entering residency and a 4th year pod student entering residency ... if a medical student wants, he/she can become a dermatologist, a FM doc, a surgeon, an OB/GYN, an Orthopod, etc, etc, etc. A DPM student, on the other hand, knows exactly what they will be entering and is restricted (though not in a bad way as it's what they signed up for) to F/A surgery.

I've heard the argument many times that DPMs are simply physicians who specialize from the beginning of school (which many individuals think is more focused and advantageous to practice), but I think it's odd now that people are looking for some sort of bigger blanket ideal where DPMs should specialize from the beginning but also have privileges and a lack of restrictions comparable to those docs who don't specialize from the beginning, cover a larger/more vague educational experience and then enter a variety of different fields (basing this mainly off the discussed press release).

Which is it ... is it better to specialize from the beginning, enter a residency program which requires you to undergo the pre-doctoral specialized training, and limit yourself to said area? Or is it better to enter a more generalized medical model, pick a field, and really 'specialize' then? In my book, it's one or the other, but not some confusing combination of both (which is frankly something I see in the press release originally discussed in this thread).

3. As far as I know ... Podiatry is not an ACGME or AOA accredited residency program in the same vein as derm, FM, surgery, etc, etc. Because of this, I think it's kind off odd to state that the only difference between a Pod and an orthopod (for example) is that they chose different specializations. I think the difference between a dermatologist and an orthopod is that they chose different specializations, but when DPMs don't even have the option of becoming something else and DO/MDs don't have the option of becoming Pods, I simply think there are deeper differences than those usually discussed in these threads.

Having said all this ... I wanted to state that I think DPMs are great at what they do and I'll refer 10 times out of 10 to DPMs for any sort of F/A problems, no doubt in my mind. However, I do think this current issue with 'parity' is confusing and to me it seems like it boils down to DPMs wanting more recognition and reimbursement for performing the same procedures as Orthopods, which I see as completely fair, BUT I wish they would just come out and say that.

Frankly, the involvement of the LCME and support of Ortho groups makes me suspicious as to what they want to do with Podiatry as a field in CA, but this has been discussed before and I don't want to get into it again.

Excellent post. I am licensed in several states and have practiced in those states and although it may differ, fortunately where I have practiced and currently practice there is NO difference in the reimbursement rates for a procedure performed by a DPM or MD/DO.

As per Kidsfeet's post, even when you are trained to perform specific procedures and even when those procedures do fall within the scope of practice in your state, it is up to the individual hospital by-laws. I have fought for many of my privileges, but haven't been 100% successful at all hospitals, especially with ORIF of the ankle. It seems as if the orthopods are often willing to give up the foot, etc., but often become very territorial with ankles and ankle trauma.

 

[Podfather]

As I have said before I have gone back and forth on DPMs becoming or converting to an MD/DO. Many believe if this were to happen our profession would eliminate all of it's problems and we would all be would be in Xanadu.

Although a MD degree would help with public perception, eliminate issues with differences in reimbursements for physicians vs limited license practitioners, and help with problems relating to the term physician in state law, hospital bylaws, and insurers that is where the benefits would end.

Scope of practice issues would remain unchanged since in many cases it is not training but competition that initiates these turf wars. As soon as an orthopedic group hires a DPM the politics of privileges vanishes and where doctors are on a salary DPMs are judged by training and experience not degree. I have full privileges, admit my own patients, and do pre-op H&Ps on stable patients all with my DPM degree. Where competition is strong and foot and ankle orthopedists exist the MD degree and a 3 year residency with RRA will change nothing since the new mantra is our training is not approved by their organizations nor are our boards. Their argument will be only those who comleted an orthopedic residency should do x,y,and z. That is until their foot and ankle orthopedist leaves and they hire a DPM. MDs/DOs have turf battles among themselves so having the same degree does not eliminate fiscally driven battles.

For those who have some fantasy that if they have a MD they will manage their diabetics both medically and surgically forget about it. I know of no surgical specialist who wants to or does this. There is a reason why we have internists, FPs, and other medical specialists.

Now if we decide we should have a way for DPMs to obtain an MD or DO degree there is already a proven way to do it. I have oftened touted the dental residency model and will do it once again. For those DPM residency programs in a university setting expand the time to 5 years and at the end after passing the USMLE you would be granted an MD. This is how the maxillofacial surgeons (geez why do they not call themselves dental surgeons) did it. This way those DPM students who excel and obtain (IMO they will be extremely competitive) these programs will be the best to initiate the process. We all know that some of those accepted to DPM school should not be and to try at this point to do this at the school vs. residency level is doomed to fail and will create a political/media firestorm.

In the end we are who we are. We have incredible diversity and should embrace it and support one another. Orthopedists have incredible diversity particularly the general orthopedists. Some do spines and some do not. Some dabble in feet and others refer. In the end they all in public support their peers and behind closed doors fight with one another. Perhaps a lesson to be learned.

 

[that1guyfromFL]

for those who have some fantasy that if they have a md they will manage their diabetics both medically and surgically forget about it. I know of no surgical specialist who wants to or does this. There is a reason why we have internists, fps, and other medical specialists.

Precisely. The "wants to" part is the key for me.

If I wanted to medically manage complex systemic disease, I should not have pursued a surgical specialty.

In the real world, everyone's scope is limited by their training.

 

[DPM2MD]

Precisely. The "wants to" part is the key for me.

If I wanted to medically manage complex systemic disease, I should not have pursued a surgical specialty.

In the real world, everyone's scope is limited by their training.

Reality is that which occurrs even after we stop believing in it~Phillip K Dick

The reality is that over 40 years have pased and the D P M degree is STILL far from being a part of mainstream medicine. Podiatry is to the mainstream as the the World Wrestling Franchise is to the NFL. The D P M degree is hardly a recognizable degree in the US let alone the rest of the world. A three year residency is no substitute for a genuine medical education be it from some Banana Republic or an Ivy Leauge school. The intensity, maturity and responsibilities of podiatrists, residents and students is far from that of medical students. Those proclaiming that they've always wanted to be podiatrists are suspect. Suspect in that if they want to practice medicine and surgery of the foot - they missed the part about the foot being a part of the body. NOT all conditions are surgical. Not being able to give a flu shot or manage an initial hypertensive or diabetic is silly especially if the `Podiatric Surgeon' is contemplating an intricate procedure. There is NO excuse for a lack of a general medical education after four years and sky high tuitiion/debt. Understanding these things will help advance a profession on life supoort by insisting on change. DPM students and practitioners MUST insist on a degree with training akin to that of students whov'e passed the USMLE - Its baffling how many excuses come up over and over again. Either you want to be doctor or not. DPMs who want Parity need to EARN it incorporate the SAME examinations and core clerkships with equal responsibilities and the D P M will be a part of the mainstream vis-a-vis an integral part of the healthcare team and an ACGME specialty. There is a tremendous podiatric gap in the education of podiatrists whereby the graduating podiatrist hasn't a clue as to what he or she does not know. IF the dumbest question ever asked is the one NOT asked- Why do podiatrists insist that any criticism is an affront to their very small field? It is nearing 2012 the very podiatrists who've posted throughout the internet have posted at various stages in their careers about expectations and realities as evidenced by the `forbidden' site, the Almost Uncensored Podiatry Forum. The posts here, at SDN: Why I Chose Podiatry several months ago were dissected, deleted and outright eliminated. The fact remains that DPM services are performed by `other' providers is emblematic that they, DPMs are replacable - Look at how
a slash of the pen cut podiatry from medicaid in South Carolina and how they've been near the edge in so many other states. Listen, if you're under the impression that he breadth and depth of knowledge gleaned as a REAL medical student is worthless, think again. The foot and leg are parts of the body and the meds DPMs can and do prescribe impact the entire body - do dentists divide the mouth into incisors and molars? Please&#8230;.A rearfoot and forefoot specialty board? Get real get an education - DEMAND an education and develop an ability to say: "I don't know what I don't know."

Cheers

BTW dentists are NOT replacable.

 

[jonwill]

Reality is that which occurrs even after we stop believing in it~Phillip K Dick

The reality is that over 40 years have pased and the D P M degree is STILL far from being a part of mainstream medicine. Podiatry is to the mainstream as the the World Wrestling Franchise is to the NFL. The D P M degree is hardly a recognizable degree in the US let alone the rest of the world. A three year residency is no substitute for a genuine medical education be it from some Banana Republic or an Ivy Leauge school. The intensity, maturity and responsibilities of podiatrists, residents and students is far from that of medical students. Those proclaiming that they've always wanted to be podiatrists are suspect. Suspect in that if they want to practice medicine and surgery of the foot - they missed the part about the foot being a part of the body. NOT all conditions are surgical. Not being able to give a flu shot or manage an initial hypertensive or diabetic is silly especially if the `Podiatric Surgeon' is contemplating an intricate procedure. There is NO excuse for a lack of a general medical education after four years and sky high tuitiion/debt. Understanding these things will help advance a profession on life supoort by insisting on change. DPM students and practitioners MUST insist on a degree with training akin to that of students whov'e passed the USMLE - Its baffling how many excuses come up over and over again. Either you want to be doctor or not. DPMs who want Parity need to EARN it incorporate the SAME examinations and core clerkships with equal responsibilities and the D P M will be a part of the mainstream vis-a-vis an integral part of the healthcare team and an ACGME specialty. There is a tremendous podiatric gap in the education of podiatrists whereby the graduating podiatrist hasn't a clue as to what he or she does not know. IF the dumbest question ever asked is the one NOT asked- Why do podiatrists insist that any criticism is an affront to their very small field? It is nearing 2012 the very podiatrists who've posted throughout the internet have posted at various stages in their careers about expectations and realities as evidenced by the `forbidden' site, the Almost Uncensored Podiatry Forum. The posts here, at SDN: Why I Chose Podiatry several months ago were dissected, deleted and outright eliminated. The fact remains that DPM services are performed by `other' providers is emblematic that they, DPMs are replacable - Look at how
a slash of the pen cut podiatry from medicaid in South Carolina and how they've been near the edge in so many other states. Listen, if you're under the impression that he breadth and depth of knowledge gleaned as a REAL medical student is worthless, think again. The foot and leg are parts of the body and the meds DPMs can and do prescribe impact the entire body - do dentists divide the mouth into incisors and molars? Please….A rearfoot and forefoot specialty board? Get real get an education - DEMAND an education and develop an ability to say: "I don't know what I don't know."

Cheers

BTW dentists are NOT replacable.

That's just funny. This person has no clue.

 

[Podfather]

Reality is that which occurrs even after we stop believing in it~Phillip K Dick

The reality is that over 40 years have pased and the D P M degree is STILL far from being a part of mainstream medicine. Podiatry is to the mainstream as the the World Wrestling Franchise is to the NFL. The D P M degree is hardly a recognizable degree in the US let alone the rest of the world. A three year residency is no substitute for a genuine medical education be it from some Banana Republic or an Ivy Leauge school. The intensity, maturity and responsibilities of podiatrists, residents and students is far from that of medical students. Those proclaiming that they've always wanted to be podiatrists are suspect. Suspect in that if they want to practice medicine and surgery of the foot - they missed the part about the foot being a part of the body. NOT all conditions are surgical. Not being able to give a flu shot or manage an initial hypertensive or diabetic is silly especially if the `Podiatric Surgeon' is contemplating an intricate procedure. There is NO excuse for a lack of a general medical education after four years and sky high tuitiion/debt. Understanding these things will help advance a profession on life supoort by insisting on change. DPM students and practitioners MUST insist on a degree with training akin to that of students whov'e passed the USMLE - Its baffling how many excuses come up over and over again. Either you want to be doctor or not. DPMs who want Parity need to EARN it incorporate the SAME examinations and core clerkships with equal responsibilities and the D P M will be a part of the mainstream vis-a-vis an integral part of the healthcare team and an ACGME specialty. There is a tremendous podiatric gap in the education of podiatrists whereby the graduating podiatrist hasn't a clue as to what he or she does not know. IF the dumbest question ever asked is the one NOT asked- Why do podiatrists insist that any criticism is an affront to their very small field? It is nearing 2012 the very podiatrists who've posted throughout the internet have posted at various stages in their careers about expectations and realities as evidenced by the `forbidden' site, the Almost Uncensored Podiatry Forum. The posts here, at SDN: Why I Chose Podiatry several months ago were dissected, deleted and outright eliminated. The fact remains that DPM services are performed by `other' providers is emblematic that they, DPMs are replacable - Look at how
a slash of the pen cut podiatry from medicaid in South Carolina and how they've been near the edge in so many other states. Listen, if you're under the impression that he breadth and depth of knowledge gleaned as a REAL medical student is worthless, think again. The foot and leg are parts of the body and the meds DPMs can and do prescribe impact the entire body - do dentists divide the mouth into incisors and molars? Please….A rearfoot and forefoot specialty board? Get real get an education - DEMAND an education and develop an ability to say: "I don't know what I don't know."

Cheers

BTW dentists are NOT replacable.

Time for you to go to those other forums you mentioned. Your rhetoric is strangely familiar to me. Perhaps Podiatry Bytes website? Either way you have stated your opinion I am living the profession daily and must disagree.

Thank you for your input.

 

[javajava]

Reality is that which occurrs even after we stop believing in it~Phillip K Dick

The reality is that over 40 years have pased and the D P M degree is STILL far from being a part of mainstream medicine. Podiatry is to the mainstream as the the World Wrestling Franchise is to the NFL. The D P M degree is hardly a recognizable degree in the US let alone the rest of the world. A three year residency is no substitute for a genuine medical education be it from some Banana Republic or an Ivy Leauge school. The intensity, maturity and responsibilities of podiatrists, residents and students is far from that of medical students. Those proclaiming that they've always wanted to be podiatrists are suspect. Suspect in that if they want to practice medicine and surgery of the foot - they missed the part about the foot being a part of the body. NOT all conditions are surgical. Not being able to give a flu shot or manage an initial hypertensive or diabetic is silly especially if the `Podiatric Surgeon' is contemplating an intricate procedure. There is NO excuse for a lack of a general medical education after four years and sky high tuitiion/debt. Understanding these things will help advance a profession on life supoort by insisting on change. DPM students and practitioners MUST insist on a degree with training akin to that of students whov'e passed the USMLE - Its baffling how many excuses come up over and over again. Either you want to be doctor or not. DPMs who want Parity need to EARN it incorporate the SAME examinations and core clerkships with equal responsibilities and the D P M will be a part of the mainstream vis-a-vis an integral part of the healthcare team and an ACGME specialty. There is a tremendous podiatric gap in the education of podiatrists whereby the graduating podiatrist hasn't a clue as to what he or she does not know. IF the dumbest question ever asked is the one NOT asked- Why do podiatrists insist that any criticism is an affront to their very small field? It is nearing 2012 the very podiatrists who've posted throughout the internet have posted at various stages in their careers about expectations and realities as evidenced by the `forbidden' site, the Almost Uncensored Podiatry Forum. The posts here, at SDN: Why I Chose Podiatry several months ago were dissected, deleted and outright eliminated. The fact remains that DPM services are performed by `other' providers is emblematic that they, DPMs are replacable - Look at how
a slash of the pen cut podiatry from medicaid in South Carolina and how they've been near the edge in so many other states. Listen, if you're under the impression that he breadth and depth of knowledge gleaned as a REAL medical student is worthless, think again. The foot and leg are parts of the body and the meds DPMs can and do prescribe impact the entire body - do dentists divide the mouth into incisors and molars? Please….A rearfoot and forefoot specialty board? Get real get an education - DEMAND an education and develop an ability to say: "I don't know what I don't know."

Cheers

BTW dentists are NOT replacable.

FYI prospective podiatry students, these people from the 'Almost Censored' pod forum represents a small minority opinion about podiatry. If you look at their site stats,

http://counter3.bravenet.com/index.php?id=370782&type=overview&usernum=190796590

you will notice that there are usually three returning visitors there a week giving their opinion about podiatry, WHILE ON STUDENTDOCTOR, we have atleast a dozen real attendings, students and residents who give their opinion which I believe is much more representative.

 

[hoaxbuster]

Time for you to go to those other forums you mentioned. Your rhetoric is strangely familiar to me. Perhaps Podiatry Bytes website? Either way you have stated your opinion I am living the profession daily and must disagree.

Thank you for your input.

I am living the profession daily and I agree with the post. I hope some podiatrists have the courage to move toward true parity without being pigeon holed and told to go to other forums. The rhetoric is familiar to many podiatrists for a reason. There are many of us who believe in what the posts suggest.

 

[hoaxbuster]

CPMA Works With CMA and COA to Achieve M.D. License Parity​

Podiatrists, tenders of corns, bunions and other troubles of the humble foot, are classified as second-class citizens in the medical world – a rung below full-fledged M.D.s. But with the surge in people with diabetes, they're playing a particularly vital role these days in preventing amputations. And there's a move afoot to boost their official status as well. "We kind of see ourselves as the profession that keeps people walking," said Dr. Jon Hultman, executive director of the California Podiatric Medical Association. "We've evolved over the last 30 or 40 years. What hasn't changed is this limited license," Hultman said. "We're treated differently even though the way we practice is essentially the same."
Dr. Jon Hultman Podiatrists have attracted an unlikely ally in the bid to boost their status: the California Medical Association. The powerful doctors' lobbying group is notorious for its turf battles with chiropractors, nurse practitioners, and others it defines as "mid-level practitioners and other allied health professionals." But this time around, the CMA is playing the opposite role. It's teaming up with the California Podiatric Medical Association and the California Orthopaedic Association to consider putting the training of foot specialists on par with M.D. standards, according to CMA Chief Executive Officer Dustin Corcoran. The three groups are creating a task force to review the curriculum at California's two podiatry schools and, depending on the outcome, appeal jointly to the national Liaison Committee on Medical Education to reclassify the licensing for podiatrists.












Im sure you all seen this , any thoughts ?

I have been a podiatrist for thirty years and this would probably be good but it would be a lot more responsibilities. I do not know if podiatrists are up to the task of being physicians so it is not for all of us.

 

[hoaxbuster]

That's just funny. This person has no clue.

I do not know what this means: "That person has no clue." It seems like that person has many clues. I would like for there to be a parity but other podiatrists are spending a lot fighting with each other.

 

[hoaxbuster]

Hello, I have been a podiatrist for over thirty years and this would probably be good but it would be a lot more responsibilities. I do not know if all podiatrists are up to the task so it is not for all of us. I keep getting a message to add new characters so maybe this will not get posted.

 

[jonwill]

I do not know what this means: "That person has no clue." It seems like that person has many clues. I would like for there to be a parity but other podiatrists are spending a lot fighting with each other.

No, you don't have a clue (DPM2MD). I think you are stuck practicing in the 1970's and you and couple of your buddies then treat it as if it is the norm. Meanwhile, the rest of us are members of medical staff, on staff at major hospitals with admitting privileges, taking call (including trauma call), etc.

I'm sorry you are having a tough time but don't pretend that it is the norm to make you feel better. I received excellent training at one of the largest teaching hospitals in the country (alongside MD/DO's even though we are apparently not mainstream). This is the case with the majority of my peers and none of them have these complaints.

Oh, and I banned you before because I honestly thought you were some spammer promoting that website you kept talking about. So behave and you can stay around.

 

[javajava]

No, you don't have a clue (DPM2MD). I think you are stuck practicing in the 1970's and you and couple of your buddies then treat it as if it is the norm. Meanwhile, the rest of us are members of medical staff, on staff at major hospitals with admitting privileges, taking call (including trauma call), etc.

I'm sorry you are having a tough time but don't pretend that it is the norm to make you feel better. I received excellent training at one of the largest teaching hospitals in the country (alongside MD/DO's even though we are apparently not mainstream). This is the case with the majority of my peers.

Oh, and I banned you before because I honestly thought you were some spammer promoting that website you kept talking about. So behave and you can stay around.

I was suspicious that they were the same person

 

[Podfather]

I am living the profession daily and I agree with the post. I hope some podiatrists have the courage to move toward true parity without being pigeon holed and told to go to other forums. The rhetoric is familiar to many podiatrists for a reason. There are many of us who believe in what the posts suggest.

Rather than spout general statements. Give me some specifics. I have done well within the profession and have parity now. No I can not treat anything above the tibial tubercle but can do anything I need to do to treat my patients. 25 years ago I was fighting for privileges and now I am the chief of surgery. Our profession has come so far in a short time. Sorry you do not see it but many do.

 

[Podfather]

FYI prospective podiatry students, these people from the 'Almost Censored' pod forum represents a small minority opinion about podiatry. If you look at their site stats,

http://counter3.bravenet.com/index.php?id=370782&type=overview&usernum=190796590

you will notice that there are usually three returning visitors there a week giving their opinion about podiatry, WHILE ON STUDENTDOCTOR, we have atleast a dozen real attendings, students and residents who give their opinion which I believe is much more representative.

After looking at the site it's the "Podiatry Bytes" guy who had a website several years ago spouting poison and untruths. In fact if you read some of his old posts they have proven wrong so now we get round 2.

 

[Podfather]

Here you go: Most of the old stuff is gone but read it and see if Hoax and DPM2MD either are this person or at least drank the Kool-Aid.


http://www.angelfire.com/on/podiatry/

 

[javajava]

Here you go: Most of the old stuff is gone but read it and see if Hoax and DPM2MD either are this person or at least drank the Kool-Aid.


http://www.angelfire.com/on/podiatry/

These people really write with alot of passion and sensationalist rhetoric. If they truly don't like podiatry I would reccomend them into going into journalism as how they write is somewhat interesting, although sometimes comes off as too strong.

 

[hoaxbuster]

After looking at the site it's the "Podiatry Bytes" guy who had a website several years ago spouting poison and untruths. In fact if you read some of his old posts they have proven wrong so now we get round 2.

That is somewhat flattering, but; no I didn't develop or post Poditry Bytes. Nonethelss I did enjoy it and found it entertaining and to a degree accurate. The FACT that DPM2MD was summarily BANNED within hours of the post regarding true parity is in parts emblematic of podiatry and the knee-jerk responses which perpetuate the so-called myths that old-timers don't know what's going on in podiatry. Hmmm…..OK, granted that there have been some changes in podiatry schools, but please share this with us: Is there true parity with MDs? Do podiatrists, despite their education, training and experience appreciate lateral moves within the healthcare domain? Is the relative worth of a DPM degre any different wih respect to its integration into other industries carry some greater discernible worth? Specificities: Look no further than these forums…What precisely has changed? - Podiatry is shuffled off into its own cubby, if you will, and the podiatrists and residents DPM sub section is paragraphs below the residents DO/MD cubby. Take a step back…cerainly you've failed to peform any broad studies indicating that recent podiatry graduates have been placed in positions within mainstream medical practices/groups to any great extent - Have you? I still hear from podiatrists a few years out of their 2 or 3 year programs seeking the careers they believed were waiting for them. Is this worthy of another knee-jerk banishment? Is the DPM degree any more reecognizable than it was ten or twenty years ago? I don't see it. Who am I? I'm the person who not only printed out 70-80 thousand words upoloaded to PDF, annotated and documented the modern history of podiatry which I will be giving away. I can do this because …. well, because I can. I'm also involved, to a degree, with efforts to move podiatry into the teen years of the twenty first century vis-a-vis the degree modification, scope of practice issues (please 50 states 50 scopes). I am working on integrating podiatry school education with medical school education - I'm one of the people taking the time to move podiatry toward incorporation into the mainstream. You - administrator - must be aware that podiatry is not recognized by the ACGME. If not, look it up. You are probably aware that the LCME doesn't recognize podiatry as medical school hence the difficulties from implementing the USMLEs. Am I a loser who didn't cut it? Am I a failure? Am I just some naysayer? That's your call. Whatever I say will be dismantled, rearranged or removed from this site because, as so wonderfully put by Col. Jessup, in A FEW GOOD MEN: "You can't handle the truth." The truth is that podiatry is withering, in fact glossing it up with the occasional exceptions of so-called stellar podiatrists you are not serving up a dish of honesty, rather giving false hope to future DPMs who will at some point acknowledge that the debt they've taken on to get their DPM degrees wasn't worth it. Thank you for banning another character, it bodes well to further my agenda - If you say something podiatrists don't like, they'll - podiatrist like you - censor it…Very sporting. I used to encourage podiatry students unable to find a place in this world to get their MD degree. Today, I'm on the fence. So please, Mr. Doctor Monitor, tell us all: Are you hiring podiatrists today? Are you selling a practice? What are you going to do to make podiatry a better profession? I suspect my answers will come by way of some smarmy, snotty trenchant comments and a banisment. You can only conspire to hide the truth for so long until your reality is exposed for what it is … lies more lies and name calling. I'm bad. Again, I didn't do the Podiatry Bytes thing, I wish I had the computer web page capabilities/skill that person had….As far a success goes: I've done relatively well, both as a DPM and an MD and remarkably well in another industry as far from healthcare as you can imagine. To me there's a payoff, just what that is, is my business. So go ahead, banish away. Cheers. Caddypod as ever was DPM MD at. I can be reached at caddypod at yahoo.com

 

[hoaxbuster]

After looking at the site it's the "Podiatry Bytes" guy who had a website several years ago spouting poison and untruths. In fact if you read some of his old posts they have proven wrong so now we get round 2.

Wrong. Not the same person(s).

Round 2? No we are likely into the triple digits.

 

[hoaxbuster]

These people really write with alot of passion and sensationalist rhetoric. If they truly don't like podiatry I would reccomend them into going into journalism as how they write is somewhat interesting, although sometimes comes off as too strong.

Ya' think?

 

[hoaxbuster]

Here you go: Most of the old stuff is gone but read it and see if Hoax and DPM2MD either are this person or at least drank the Kool-Aid.


http://www.angelfire.com/on/podiatry/

I didn't write podiatry bytes. I didn't have the computer/web page skills but I do/did agree with a lot of the material.

Was it Kool-Aide or coffee or something else that tipped the outlines of peception, made those fuzzy borders take on new shapes until some configuration became manifest? Hmmm, blame it on the Kool Aide. Yep. That certainly makes things fit into the paradigm of podiatric thinking.
caddypod at yahoo.com

 

[hoaxbuster]

These people really write with alot of passion and sensationalist rhetoric. If they truly don't like podiatry I would reccomend them into going into journalism as how they write is somewhat interesting, although sometimes comes off as too strong.

What're you a college junior or senior? Whatever. Technically this is not writing with passion, it's a techinique utilized to emphasize the salient points in an exposition. If you've read the narrative and left with a sense that the author did not `like' podiatry. Read it again. The author does not dislike podiatry. Contrarily, the issues pertaining to job placement, parity with mainstream medicine, and those things, including but not limited to an essentially unrecognizable degree, D P M, and a brief - How To - reagarding making things better was discussed. Since you brought it up, writing with passion' requires several components - Central to this dynamic is conflict. Some writers can make this look simple, but it is largely a complex system based on an admixture of sentence construction and usage. Spare the adjectives and introduce dialogue and be mindful that no one is grading you on your work. Nonetheless, I've strayed…Podiatry, that's what this is about. Personally I can take it or leave it. Podiatrists and their petty tyranism, knee jerk responses and perpetual promises leave me with a sense of sadness that even though some are passionate about the profession, the larger world doesn't share in those notions. The information disseminated about podiatry and career/job placement is often not representative of what exists in the marketplace. Podiatry is not part of the fray, they are not a recognized medical specialty by the ACGME, that is the organization which sanctions medical specialists like Ear Nose and Throat Doctors, Opthalmologists, and other true medical specialists. I've used the word true, because if you contact the AMA and ask them if podiatry is a medical specialty…..yes, that's a good idea. And when you do call the AMA you can ask them why not? Then if you are really interested in being a foot specialist contact the American Orthopedic Foot and Ankle Society. They will explain to you what is considered by many many Americans as to who gets to do what and where - Hospitials and Surgi Centers. and maybe some other insights. There will be all sorts of posts by Podiatry sponsored hosts which describe the seemingly limitless possibilities for DPMs- You can follow that information and go to podiatry school, OR you can spend time with podiatrists in your area, shadow them around, ask some questions - a lot of questions and then follow around some MD specialists. After you have done that, you can consider your choice. I am not suggesting that you discard podiatry as a career choice. No. Not at all, I am suggesting that before you devote a chunk of time, and effort you know about as much as you can about what you're getting into.

 

[hoaxbuster]

Rather than spout general statements. Give me some specifics. I have done well within the profession and have parity now. No I can not treat anything above the tibial tubercle but can do anything I need to do to treat my patients. 25 years ago I was fighting for privileges and now I am the chief of surgery. Our profession has come so far in a short time. Sorry you do not see it but many do.

Why? Specifics are the basis for nit picking and tit for tat arguements which obscures the salient issue of this thread…True Parity. I am not here to nit pick.

I am here to remind you that there is no parity until the scope of practice issues are addressed and states like South Carolina cannot, with the scrawl of a pen eliminate podiatry services. Services. Roll that around in your mind.

How is it that you have parity? You did well. Good for you. I don't know what that means. There are trash collectors who have `done well' - Doing well is a construct which is an internized perception as to how the individual has come to find his or here place in the world and their own level of contentedness.

OK you can podiac up to the anterior tibial tubercle, surgically I guess, but cannot address ailments of the human body not related to these structures. That's fine. Parity is the ability to intervene in situations where systemic anomalies arise during the course of your treatment of foot and leg disease. You are required to refer the hypertensive to the NP, GP, FP or PA instead of prescribing a transient medication until the patient can arrange appropriate care-care which is not inclusive in your scope of practice. Again the 50 states 50 scopes issue.

Ok you are a chief of surgery. Going to the notion of details, is that chief of foot surgery, or is it chief of all surgery at your institution? Is surgery the be all and end all of a profession? Nonetheless, good for you and congratulations on becoming chief. Parity is when podiatry becomes recognized as a genuine medical specialty and I use the term `genuine' to reflect those parameters set out by the ACGME. Many see things your way, many see things my way. Many just don't see things at all. But as far as you've gone, consider that there is, was, and always will be a bit further to go.

Cheers.

 

[Podfather]

Why? Specifics are the basis for nit picking and tit for tat arguements which obscures the salient issue of this thread…True Parity. I am not here to nit pick.

I am here to remind you that there is no parity until the scope of practice issues are addressed and states like South Carolina cannot, with the scrawl of a pen eliminate podiatry services. Services. Roll that around in your mind.

How is it that you have parity? You did well. Good for you. I don't know what that means. There are trash collectors who have `done well' - Doing well is a construct which is an internized perception as to how the individual has come to find his or here place in the world and their own level of contentedness.

OK you can podiac up to the anterior tibial tubercle, surgically I guess, but cannot address ailments of the human body not related to these structures. That's fine. Parity is the ability to intervene in situations where systemic anomalies arise during the course of your treatment of foot and leg disease. You are required to refer the hypertensive to the NP, GP, FP or PA instead of prescribing a transient medication until the patient can arrange appropriate care-care which is not inclusive in your scope of practice. Again the 50 states 50 scopes issue.

Ok you are a chief of surgery. Going to the notion of details, is that chief of foot surgery, or is it chief of all surgery at your institution? Is surgery the be all and end all of a profession? Nonetheless, good for you and congratulations on becoming chief. Parity is when podiatry becomes recognized as a genuine medical specialty and I use the term `genuine' to reflect those parameters set out by the ACGME. Many see things your way, many see things my way. Many just don't see things at all. But as far as you've gone, consider that there is, was, and always will be a bit further to go.

Cheers.

First it is chief of surgery not chief of foot surgery. No, I can not enter another specialty unless I return to medical school and residency. Nor can an MD unless they do another residency. We all knew this going in and I never wanted to be anything else. I have seen our profession make huge strides in my 25+ years and see more in the future. I do write for meds to cover my patient's medical conditions when they are admitted until the hospitalist or internist can see them. I do not diagnose or treat medical problems just provide coverage until those who do can see them.

Look if the profession decides we need to be MDs/DOs to move forward in the future then I will help and support those who work for this. You spout negative things like: South Carolina losing Medicaid and I would reply hospital privileges and delineation of privileges are light years ahead of where they were 25 years ago. You state we can not write for medications for systemic diseases ( the orthopedists I know chose not to either) and I say many of my graduates now work as partners in orthopedic groups. 25 years ago it was difficult to get an orthopedist to talk to you. When I first got out of residency I had to fight for surgical privileges and now yes I am the chief of surgery. Do we still have issues? Sure but we continue to work on them. Dentist do not have a incisor vs molar division but only maxillofacial surgeons can do mandibular osteotomies in most hospitals.

People like you speak in generalities not specific for a reason. Specifics are easily rebutted. I have seen naysayers predict the demise of this profession for decades yet we still exist and are light years where we were just 2 decades ago. This site has discussed both the positives and negatives of the profession and certainly no one here completely agrees with one another. But that is different than chicken little scenarios hidden in obscure rhetoric.

 

[G0dFather]

FYI prospective podiatry students, these people from the 'Almost Censored' pod forum represents a small minority opinion about podiatry. If you look at their site stats,

http://counter3.bravenet.com/index.php?id=370782&type=overview&usernum=190796590

you will notice that there are usually three returning visitors there a week giving their opinion about podiatry, WHILE ON STUDENTDOCTOR, we have atleast a dozen real attendings, students and residents who give their opinion which I believe is much more representative.

I am profoundly appalled by this website! I have no idea what these people are trying to do, bring change & awareness? If anything it is smearing the profession's name even further! This is definitely not the way to go about it. I am completely disgusted, there is not even one good post on the entire site. How negative can someone be? The site is so negative that is becomes very obvious to a rational person that the site is complete garbage and extremely biased.

If podiatry is not the way it is or moving at the pace that they want it to be moving at it, may be its **** like this that's a big contributing factor. Every time there is a positive step forward, there is always something that makes the profession take another step backwards. **** like this site disrupts unity and doesn't aid in anything but holding back and unwinding the positive that has been done.

It makes me very sad to see the rage these posters have. These posters seem to be nothing more than nail and callus trimmers if anything at all. That's all they see in podiatry, and that's all they do. They are enraged because they are starving. However it is very simple, cut nails and calluses and you starve. Practice podiatric medicine and surgery and you will do just fine. If they REALLY practiced podiatric medicine and surgery, they wouldn't be posting like this.

Remember :
YOU HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME FOR YOUR SHORTCOMINGS BUT YOURSELF! THE SOONER YOUR ON TERMS WITH THAT THE EASIER LIFE WILL BE! DO US ALL A FAVOR AND CUT THIS **** OUT!

 

[hoaxbuster]

I am profoundly appalled by this website! I have no idea what these people are trying to do, bring change & awareness? If anything it is smearing the profession's name even further! This is definitely not the way to go about it. I am completely disgusted, there is not even one good post on the entire site. How negative can someone be? The site is so negative that is becomes very obvious to a rational person that the site is complete garbage and extremely biased.

If podiatry is not the way it is or moving at the pace that they want it to be moving at it, may be its **** like this that's a big contributing factor. Every time there is a positive step forward, there is always something that makes the profession take another step backwards. **** like this site disrupts unity and doesn't aid in anything but holding back and unwinding the positive that has been done.

It makes me very sad to see the rage these posters have. These posters seem to be nothing more than nail and callus trimmers if anything at all. That's all they see in podiatry, and that's all they do. They are enraged because they are starving. However it is very simple, cut nails and calluses and you starve. Practice podiatric medicine and surgery and you will do just fine. If they REALLY practiced podiatric medicine and surgery, they wouldn't be posting like this.

Remember :
YOU HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME FOR YOUR SHORTCOMINGS BUT YOURSELF! THE SOONER YOUR ON TERMS WITH THAT THE EASIER LIFE WILL BE! DO US ALL A FAVOR AND CUT THIS **** OUT!

Now that's some good `rage'. Maybe there's soemthing I missed in those posts…c'mon point out the parts referencing any personal history that would suggest a dissatisfaction with life? Is there anything regarding my shotrcomings or failures (I've had a few, but not professionally and live a pretty well rounded and comfortable life)? I didn't write about anything that can't be substantiated, nor was there any negativity - maybe you interpreted these things as such. If you speak the way you write, you're pretty full of rage yourself - that's scary. I'd get some professional help. Things, as in change in podiatry, aren't moving fast enough? No. They aren't. The fact that podiatry was removed from medicaid in S. Carolina goes to this. The re-emergence of scope of practice considerations in California makes for these things too. Hey, what's wrong with corn and callus trimming? What's wrong with nail clipping? That is just plain mean. There are people out there who do this for a living and they'd most likely take offense. Negativity. Hmm…a knee-jerk response to rational criticisms. OK, I get it - this less-than mature response in another of a long line or responses to a rational proposal to advance podiatry, podiatric medicine and surgery, if you prefer, to the next level. Maybe you need to look no further than the closest mirror to see who is to blame - then again, I don't think blaming fits this particular paradigm. Podiatry (PM & S to me you dirty rotten negativist) is again at a turning point, maybe, some level headed folks can approach these things in a mature, clinical manner and advance some of the things impacting the profession. Do you think that name calling and writing flustered notes is going to make me and other like-minded folks go away? The word is, was, and will be out - you may chose to remain steadfast in defense of the status quo or take a deep breath and conduct yourself as a physician with a degree of abandon. This (podiaric change) is NOT a peronal dynamic, rather an opportunity to improve upon what currently exists in the 50 states with 50 scopes and the ongoing lack of parity, which, I believe is the topic - True Parity. You see, Angry Post Person, you don't know anything about me other than a certain degree of flexibility with language, knowledge of the podiatry profession and my claim of having gone to medical school (you really can't verify much more). But any prudent reader might find some of the things I am suggesting less-than negative, and a true attempt to enlist those forward thinking podiatrists in moving the profession through whatever means neccessary.

Cheers
Caddypod as ever was DPM MD caddypod at yahoo.com

 

[jonwill]

Now that's some good `rage'. Maybe there's soemthing I missed in those posts…c'mon point out the parts referencing any personal history that would suggest a dissatisfaction with life? Is there anything regarding my shotrcomings or failures (I've had a few, but not professionally and live a pretty well rounded and comfortable life)? I didn't write about anything that can't be substantiated, nor was there any negativity - maybe you interpreted these things as such. If you speak the way you write, you're pretty full of rage yourself - that's scary. I'd get some professional help. Things, as in change in podiatry, aren't moving fast enough? No. They aren't. The fact that podiatry was removed from medicaid in S. Carolina goes to this. The re-emergence of scope of practice considerations in California makes for these things too. Hey, what's wrong with corn and callus trimming? What's wrong with nail clipping? That is just plain mean. There are people out there who do this for a living and they'd most likely take offense. Negativity. Hmm…a knee-jerk response to rational criticisms. OK, I get it - this less-than mature response in another of a long line or responses to a rational proposal to advance podiatry, podiatric medicine and surgery, if you prefer, to the next level. Maybe you need to look no further than the closest mirror to see who is to blame - then again, I don't think blaming fits this particular paradigm. Podiatry (PM & S to me you dirty rotten negativist) is again at a turning point, maybe, some level headed folks can approach these things in a mature, clinical manner and advance some of the things impacting the profession. Do you think that name calling and writing flustered notes is going to make me and other like-minded folks go away? The word is, was, and will be out - you may chose to remain steadfast in defense of the status quo or take a deep breath and conduct yourself as a physician with a degree of abandon. This (podiaric change) is NOT a peronal dynamic, rather an opportunity to improve upon what currently exists in the 50 states with 50 scopes and the ongoing lack of parity, which, I believe is the topic - True Parity. You see, Angry Post Person, you don't know anything about me other than a certain degree of flexibility with language, knowledge of the podiatry profession and my claim of having gone to medical school (you really can't verify much more). But any prudent reader might find some of the things I am suggesting less-than negative, and a true attempt to enlist those forward thinking podiatrists in moving the profession through whatever means neccessary.

Cheers
Caddypod as ever was DPM MD caddypod at yahoo.com

That is what is so comical. NONE of your claims can be substantiated because they are simply wrong. You are coming on here trying to tell all of these successful pods of all of these things that simply don't exist. IF THEY DID EXIST, then we would know about them and be seeing the same thing. But instead of stepping back from your failing argument, you instead treat this like some type of conspiracy that we are all in on. Doesn't that seem bizarre to you? Are we all just lying??? These things may have been an issue 20-30 years ago which is why you have been accused of being "out of touch". Let it go. You are wrong.

I

 

[hoaxbuster]

Thank you for the clarification. If losing your medicaid patient population is something that isn't negative - there's no reason to proceed. Unfortunately there are podiatrists in S. C. who've lost a significant portion of their income and have contacted me. I have a knack for stirring things up and getting things done, not always to all parties concerned likings. I believe that I can help California DPMs attain their goal re: integration of parity. Does it get any more specific than that? Generalities are inegral in illustrating a world view and allow for initial estimations of the field and the abilities or lack of, leadership as well as appreciating the opposition. If all you've gleaned anything from my posts, you've probably picked up on a certain tenacity. If you find comfort in the notions that I am a `negativist' and you find solace in categorizing me as a loser, failure, miscreant or other less-than worthy - (jeez I hate to use this term) - opponent, so be it. If you truly believe the zeitgeist is trending toward True Parity, that'd place us on the same side. If you just want to bicker and nit pick, I don't, I've other things to do. Incidentally you can do another residency after you've earned an MD, its doable, but not impossible. DPMs are not afforded that luxury. This can change. Maybe a time will come when people visit their podiatrist, he or she will also be their internist or GP/FP (whatever). This might not be for every podiatrist but CAN be an option. Simply acknowledging that there are roads untravelled by some podiatrists doesn't mean they don't exist.

Respectfully,

Caddypod as ever was DPM MD
caddypod at yahoo.com (I don't use the @ sign) because it reroutes the email address. Like I said, I'm not the most tech savvy person on the board, hence the misconception that I developed Podiatrybytes) .

 

[javajava]

Now that's some good `rage'. Maybe there's soemthing I missed in those posts…c'mon point out the parts referencing any personal history that would suggest a dissatisfaction with life? Is there anything regarding my shotrcomings or failures (I've had a few, but not professionally and live a pretty well rounded and comfortable life)? I didn't write about anything that can't be substantiated, nor was there any negativity - maybe you interpreted these things as such. If you speak the way you write, you're pretty full of rage yourself - that's scary. I'd get some professional help. Things, as in change in podiatry, aren't moving fast enough? No. They aren't. The fact that podiatry was removed from medicaid in S. Carolina goes to this. The re-emergence of scope of practice considerations in California makes for these things too. Hey, what's wrong with corn and callus trimming? What's wrong with nail clipping? That is just plain mean. There are people out there who do this for a living and they'd most likely take offense. Negativity. Hmm…a knee-jerk response to rational criticisms. OK, I get it - this less-than mature response in another of a long line or responses to a rational proposal to advance podiatry, podiatric medicine and surgery, if you prefer, to the next level. Maybe you need to look no further than the closest mirror to see who is to blame - then again, I don't think blaming fits this particular paradigm. Podiatry (PM & S to me you dirty rotten negativist) is again at a turning point, maybe, some level headed folks can approach these things in a mature, clinical manner and advance some of the things impacting the profession. Do you think that name calling and writing flustered notes is going to make me and other like-minded folks go away? The word is, was, and will be out - you may chose to remain steadfast in defense of the status quo or take a deep breath and conduct yourself as a physician with a degree of abandon. This (podiaric change) is NOT a peronal dynamic, rather an opportunity to improve upon what currently exists in the 50 states with 50 scopes and the ongoing lack of parity, which, I believe is the topic - True Parity. You see, Angry Post Person, you don't know anything about me other than a certain degree of flexibility with language, knowledge of the podiatry profession and my claim of having gone to medical school (you really can't verify much more). But any prudent reader might find some of the things I am suggesting less-than negative, and a true attempt to enlist those forward thinking podiatrists in moving the profession through whatever means neccessary.

Cheers
Caddypod as ever was DPM MD caddypod at yahoo.com

Hoax, if you want people to listen to your opinion, which your entitled to, its a simple understanding that you musn't come off too strong and too extreme atleast initially while convincing someone. If you do then you lose credibility with your audience whether or not you have good or bad evidence to support your claim. For example, Hitler (look at what happened to him). Right now to us your like an anarchist who lives on the thrill of posting your opinion trying to break down the APMA. If you just go down a few levels, and have precise, Short conversational replies to our replies to you then no one would be hostile to you and we would be much more interested in listening to what we have to say. We might not believe it, but thats ok because we all have our own opinion and entitled to it.

 

[hoaxbuster]

That is what is so comical. NONE of your claims can be substantiated because they are simply wrong. You are coming on here trying to tell all of these successful pods of all of these things that simply don't exist. IF THEY DID EXIST, then we would know about them and be seeing the same thing. But instead of stepping back from your failing argument, you instead treat this like some type of conspiracy that we are all in on. Doesn't that seem bizarre to you? Are we all just lying??? These things may have been an issue 20-30 years ago which is why you have been accused of being "out of touch". Let it go. You are wrong.

I

&#8230;.but why isn't podiatry a part of mainstream medicine vis-a-vis an ACGME medical specialty? Why is the DPM degree as unrecognizable today as it was twenty, thirty years ago? I do not know what part of the world you are in but can be confident it is in one of parts of the world where you are a limited license practitioner tetering on the periphery of medicaid expulsion. One expenditure which can be deemed expendable. Futhermore there do remain 50 states with 50 scopes of practice. I do not recall any notions in my posts that would suggest there is any sort of conspiracy, perhaps I wasn't clear in my suggestions that there needs to be some cohesion to assure these things, on topic TRUE PARITY can be accomplished. Let it go. Cute catch phrase. Why? Are you lying or are you denying that SC has cut medicaid and California is seeking TRUE PARITY? Reflect upon these things and get back to me.

I am certain that you are mature, mindful practitioners who may be excellent foot and in some states ankle surgeons. But certainly you must on some level realize the limitations and exclusions. I'm not sure if your usage of the term `cosnpiracy' is applicable. I do believe that collectively turning a blind eye to doable deeds might be a better fit, as the last time I looked the folks who've lost their revenue stream in SC haven't been `out of touch' like me. Either are the California DPMs striving to attain parity, to which the title of this thread: TRUE PARITY suggests.


Caddypod as ever was DPM MD
caddypod at yahoo.com&#8230;.(I don't use the @ sign on this site as my posts get rerouted - I don't know why - which goes to my lack of computer savvy).

 

[Podfather]

&#8230;.but why isn't podiatry a part of mainstream medicine vis-a-vis an ACGME medical specialty? Why is the DPM degree as unrecognizable today as it was twenty, thirty years ago? I do not know what part of the world you are in but can be confident it is in one of parts of the world where you are a limited license practitioner tetering on the periphery of medicaid expulsion. One expenditure which can be deemed expendable. Futhermore there do remain 50 states with 50 scopes of practice. I do not recall any notions in my posts that would suggest there is any sort of conspiracy, perhaps I wasn't clear in my suggestions that there needs to be some cohesion to assure these things, on topic TRUE PARITY can be accomplished. Let it go. Cute catch phrase. Why? Are you lying or are you denying that SC has cut medicaid and California is seeking TRUE PARITY? Reflect upon these things and get back to me.

I am certain that you are mature, mindful practitioners who may be excellent foot and in some states ankle surgeons. But certainly you must on some level realize the limitations and exclusions. I'm not sure if your usage of the term `cosnpiracy' is applicable. I do believe that collectively turning a blind eye to doable deeds might be a better fit, as the last time I looked the folks who've lost their revenue stream in SC haven't been `out of touch' like me. Either are the California DPMs striving to attain parity, to which the title of this thread: TRUE PARITY suggests.


Caddypod as ever was DPM MD
caddypod at yahoo.com&#8230;.(I don't use the @ sign on this site as my posts get rerouted - I don't know why - which goes to my lack of computer savvy).

I tried to be tolerant. Asked for specifics and gave examples of where we have progressed to. He is here to have a soap box. Scream as loud as you want. To any future students or residents who have specific questions feel free to PM me. A band without an audience is just a bunch of people with instruments. Hoax, DPM2MD whomever you are I sincerely hope you find something good within your profession or at least find one that makes you happy. You win no more rebuttal from me.