Tua

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SSdoc33

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few thoughts on the Tagavailoa fiasco

1. Tua should never play football again
2. Independent neruologist and team doctor should be fired/lose their licenses
3. Tua should sue the league for $500M


Once they allowed Tua to return to the game last Sunday, they were cooked. They essentially stated that he wasnt concussed, so if they later admit that he was and held him out yesterday, they had to admit their original mistake and would therefore be liable. They compounded their initial mistake by making another one and letting him play.

If you look at both plays, neither was all that harsh. This means that he was already susceptible to concussions. That fencing posture after a relatively benign hit means this will keep happening. Quit now, Tua.





https://twitter.com/ChrisNowinski1/status/1575659558613172224?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet




Chris Nowinski, Ph.D.

@ChrisNowinski1


This is a disaster. Pray for Tua. Fire the medical staffs and coaches. I predicted this and I hate that I am right. Two concussions in 5 days can kill someone. This can end careers. How are we so stupid in 2022.
 
Suggest waiting to see what facts arise in the media before jumping to summary judgements. Especially suggesting docs lose their licenses. Seems premature to me. They deserve their chance to defend themselves. Of course if you hate football, feel free to vent your dislike of the game. Americans love watching it, just as the Romans loved their coliseum. Part of that are the hits and the money. Watching soccer is like watching paint dry. “Are you not entertained?!” – Maximus
"1. Tua should never play football again
2. Independent neruologist and team doctor should be fired/lose their licenses
3. Tua should sue the league for $500M"
 
willabeast said:
Suggest waiting to see what facts arise in the media before jumping to summary judgements. Especially suggesting docs lose their licenses. Seems premature to me. They deserve their chance to defend themselves. Of course if you hate football, feel free to vent your dislike of the game. Americans love watching it, just as the Romans loved their coliseum. Part of that are the hits and the money. Watching soccer is like watching paint dry. “Are you not entertained?!” – Maximus
"1. Tua should never play football again
2. Independent neruologist and team doctor should be fired/lose their licenses
3. Tua should sue the league for $500M"
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? hate football? ummm. my 3 fantasy leagues and 8 hours of football on sundays would argue against it

we are all docs here. we saw what happened. if you are the doc on the sideline, saw tua stumble after he hit his head and THEN put him back in the game, then why are you even practicing medicine? because he could say his A,B,Cs? compounded the mistake by not admitting there was a concussion in the first game.

the league protocol is to have an independent neurologist as well as the team doc evaluate for a concussion, but it is ultimately the team doc who decides if any gross motor problem was due to the head trauma. the team doc "decided" that the stumble was due to a back problem. ok, dude. have a seat....

if football is to survive, this crap needs to be cleaned up. thats why it bothers me so much. have to protect the players if the game is going to live
 
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Football shouldn't be anywhere close to the top if anyone is against brutality and injury in sports. It might be a good idea to start here:

 
Not a good look but I am not sure what power the independent neurologist has to hold a player beyond administering screen concussion tests.

We had multiple concussions like Tua's at my previous job - hard hit, stumbling around, etc. - get them in the tent/locker room and have a perfect SCAT5 and/or other concussion screen. I suspect that's what happened with Tua. That is when it is your time to be a REAL DOCTOR and not fold to the ATCs, player, coaches, owners, etc. and hold out the player. At the end of the day a concussion is still a **clinical diagnosis** and even if a screen test is negative you hold out the player.
 
runfastnow said:
Not a good look but I am not sure what power the independent neurologist has to hold a player beyond administering screen concussion tests.

We had multiple concussions like Tua's at my previous job - hard hit, stumbling around, etc. - get them in the tent/locker room and have a perfect SCAT5 and/or other concussion screen. I suspect that's what happened with Tua. That is when it is your time to be a REAL DOCTOR and not fold to the ATCs, player, coaches, owners, etc. and hold out the player. At the end of the day a concussion is still a **clinical diagnosis** and even if a screen test is negative you hold out the player.
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100%
 
I don't see how anyone lets this guy play again

When you see the frequency and severity of NFL injuries it makes TB12's longevity even more impressive
 
He can be cleared and play again, but he should go through extensive RTP protocols. If he truly had double impact syndrome it would be unlikely to return this season.

Look up Dale Earnhardt Jr and Kurt Busch concussion/mTBI stories. Some athletes decide that is not worth it and walk away.
 
Tua may have lost $200M by playing in that game. best move is to retire, then go after the NFL legally. it may be a d$ck move, especially if he personally lied about the "back injury" or any symptoms, but the system failed to protect the player from himself

(some) pacific islanders have this cultural thing about complaining about pain, which may have played a part
 
That was scary. He should stop.

I’m not certain the independent neurologist actually got to see the stumble and tua was sticking to ankle and back injuries. Hard if your patient lies to you and clears protocol
 
Apparently he’s wearing a neck brace as well, does that have any role in treating concussion?
 
After doing a PM&R residency I just lost any taste for watching football. Was a huge fan beforehand but after seeing enough bad TBI and SCI cases I can't stomach to watch it.

Hope this young man is okay. I would never let my children play football.
 
nvrsumr said:
That was scary. He should stop.

I’m not certain the independent neurologist actually got to see the stumble and tua was sticking to ankle and back injuries. Hard if your patient lies to you and clears protocol
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i have no doubt, Tua wasnt forthright with the doc. but everyone in the stadium saw him stumble. if he wasnt watching, that is negligence
 
Not the expert but on tv they said there are supposed to be spotters in the stadium stands that tell the docs what they see on the field. The independent neurologist is separate from the team physician and not certain they are on the sideline watching each play.

Clearly something was missed and the process needs to be better. I hate to call for the docs head until we get further info.
 
Tua is injury prone. I have seen every one of his games when he was at bama. Every little hit would affect his body in some way

He is mentally tough but his ego is writing checks that his body can't cash
 
Wow, just watched the hit, very scared. If I were tua I would consider retiring. If not he may regret it many years from now. Never seen such posturing after a concussion, only in neuroceitical care level TBI, which is quite scary.

Should a player be allowed to sue a team or the NFL if they lied to get back on the field? Interesting ethical question.
 
dipriMAN said:
Wow, just watched the hit, very scared. If I were tua I would consider retiring. If not he may regret it many years from now. Never seen such posturing after a concussion, only in neuroceitical care level TBI, which is quite scary.

Should a player be allowed to sue a team or the NFL if they lied to get back on the field? Interesting ethical question.
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Posturing not uncommon after KOs in combat sports. But fighters only fight a few times a year
 
NFL is scapegoating the "independent neruological consultant" to try to brush this under the rug. the true decision is by the team doctor

www.espn.com

Sources: Doctor who evaluated Tagovailoa fired

The unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant involved in clearing Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa during last Sunday's game against the Bills has been fired after it was found he made "several mistakes" in his evaluation, sources told ESPN.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

Evidently Tua was watching "Magruber" on the flight back. Bright lights, screens, and loud explosions are great for head injuries that just happened 3 hours ago. Kudos again to the Doplhins medical staff

Mike McDaniel continues to look like a jackass in this situation. doing a good job as a coach, horrible jobs as a human being:

""I have 100 percent conviction in our process regarding our players," McDaniel said. "This is a player-friendly organization, and I make it very clear from the onset that my job here is for the players. I take that very seriously. No one in the building strays from that. ... If there would have been anything lingering with his head, I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if I prematurely put someone out there and put them in harm's way."

as an aside, Magruber is a highly underrated movie.
 
nvrsumr said:
Not the expert but on tv they said there are supposed to be spotters in the stadium stands that tell the docs what they see on the field. The independent neurologist is separate from the team physician and not certain they are on the sideline watching each play.

Clearly something was missed and the process needs to be better. I hate to call for the docs head until we get further info.
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only way we'd know for sure is in discover with a lawsuit. we need to know what Tua said, why there was any thought of a "back injury" when he stumbled. if there was any plan for work up or additional treatement of said back injury. documentation of how Tua shaking his head 3 times after the initial hit and then stumble could possibly be unrelated to his head.

as you can tell, this really gets me heated.
 
I love college football; I do not like NFL football. Terrible business and sport.
 
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Feel bad for these players. Not worth the risk. However I’m sure the fame and money make it seem like it. Next to acting, professional sports players, coaches, owners etc. are the most over paid individuals in America. What we pay for mindless entertainment is ridiculous
 
when i worked HS football games we took the players helmet away after any concussion/TBI symptoms. That obviously didnt happen with Tua. Not sure what the independent neurologist saw, but he was not informed apparently.

Players frequently lie......and try to go back in. That's why we take their helmet away. It's not a cultural thing in the Hawaiian islands. It's a football player thing.

As for playing again.....he should be fine in a few months. But not anytime soon.

Side note.....i always hated that the Dolphins drafted him in front of Herbert. Tua was already injury prone, he is too short, he has weak arm strength vs other QB's. I am not really happy to be proven right.
 
Doctodd said:
As for playing again.....he should be fine in a few months. But not anytime soon.
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...meh.

What most ppl are concerned about isn't his ability to play football again, it's what happens when he's concussed again...Which will happen BTW - He's always been soft.

Most ppl are concerned about him 10 yrs from now.

I've seen this with fighters again and again.
 
Doctodd said:
when i worked HS football games we took the players helmet away after any concussion/TBI symptoms. That obviously didnt happen with Tua. Not sure what the independent neurologist saw, but he was not informed apparently.

Players frequently lie......and try to go back in. That's why we take their helmet away. It's not a cultural thing in the Hawaiian islands. It's a football player thing.

As for playing again.....he should be fine in a few months. But not anytime soon.

Side note.....i always hated that the Dolphins drafted him in front of Herbert. Tua was already injury prone, he is too short, he has weak arm strength vs other QB's. I am not really happy to be proven right.
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True. Apparently, I tried to trade jerseys with another player thinking that could get me back in the game. I have no recall of this or about a week after the concussion. Second concussion 2 weeks later from fairly incidental contact. What we didn't know then.🙄
 
pretty obvious concussion first time around. The thing is, everyone says don't participate in contact sports atleast for 2 weeks for a concussion.

So why this wasn't done seems to be 2 possible reasons: the neurotrauma consultant is incompetent, or the team/gm/coach/owner pressured or hinted at the consultant or asked "hey can we pass this off as backpain, and if so, let's do that" etc.

hopefully we get answers.

as for if Tua should never play football again, seems like a stretch. He had all the agency in the world to say i don't want to play. Would he be classified as a "non competitive athlete" , "soft" maybe, but if he came back THIS week and balled out, he was getting his money regardless.
 
what bothers me is the EASE at which both hits caused a concussion. the first one he literally just got pushed backward. he didnt protect himself on either hit. it is like when a fighter loses his chin. even if a minor jab gets thru, he goes down. this doesnt end well for TUA
 
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cowboydoc said:
True. Apparently, I tried to trade jerseys with another player thinking that could get me back in the game. I have no recall of this or about a week after the concussion. Second concussion 2 weeks later from fairly incidental contact. What we didn't know then.🙄
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You prolly just got your bell rung
 
SSdoc33 said:
what bothers me is the EASE at which both hits caused a concussion. the first one he literally just got pushed backward. he didnt protect himself on either hit. it is like when a fighter loses his chin. even if a minor jab gets thru, he goes down. this doesnt end well for TUA
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that might be the only reason the neurologist let him back in from the first one...because the first hit was so benign imho.
 
Doctodd said:
that might be the only reason the neurologist let him back in from the first one...because the first hit was so benign imho.
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Which is why he shouldn't have been able to play 4 days later, when a second occipital strike which KO'd him occurred from a drag down tackle and not an actual hit.

Both hits were occipital strikes and those do it easily.

I had an occipital strike of my own in a BJJ tournament while attempting a dynamic move with like 5 sec left in a match. Landed on my back and my head touched the ground and I wasn't prepared for it. Saw black, heard the crowd. One second later I'm normal.

Tua couldn't walk.
 
MitchLevi said:
Which is why he shouldn't have been able to play 4 days later, when a second occipital strike which KO'd him occurred from a drag down tackle and not an actual hit.

Both hits were occipital strikes and those do it easily.

I had an occipital strike of my own in a BJJ tournament while attempting a dynamic move with like 5 sec left in a match. Landed on my back and my head touched the ground and I wasn't prepared for it. Saw black, heard the crowd. One second later I'm normal.

Tua couldn't walk.
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Flying armbar?
 
RoloTomassi said:
Flying armbar?
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Haha. Yep. Open weight. Losing on points with maybe 10 sec left or something.

Occipital strikes are no joke, doesn't take much.

That's why you can't punch behind the ear in boxing, MMA, kickboxing, etc.
 
My first TBI was occipital. Ped struck, Fx skull. 2 days out. Age 8. Then hit in head with wrench (frontal), pole vaulting and pole broke (frontal). Transmission fell off jack (occipital). Football in HS and college (4 clear concussions- 1 of which I had to get out of a car ride that day to throw up). Only 1 from an MVA (single vehicle crash age 17). None working as a doctor so far. Probably should get MRI though no symptoms. This explains a lot. Could argue personality changes, if one were found. Axis 2ish. Not pathological. :bang:
 
Not sure how many I've had. Out on my feet at the USMC boxing gym. "Bell rung" in football many times. Tunnel vision a few times.

I can remember college classes in the AM after hard sparring nights and feeling off. Never had headaches though. Never puked after a headshot either.
 
lobelsteve said:
My first TBI was occipital. Ped struck, Fx skull. 2 days out. Age 8. Then hit in head with wrench (frontal), pole vaulting and pole broke (frontal). Transmission fell off jack (occipital). Football in HS and college (4 clear concussions- 1 of which I had to get out of a car ride that day to throw up). Only 1 from an MVA (single vehicle crash age 17). None working as a doctor so far. Probably should get MRI though no symptoms. This explains a lot. Could argue personality changes, if one were found. Axis 2ish. Not pathological. :bang:
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Pathology is in the eye of the beholder...
 
3 ints in the second half because he couldnt remember the plays.

That's 3 for the year so far, even though they are only counting 2

And again, this third one was the occipital area again.

He isn't protecting himself when he gets thrown down
 
MitchLevi said:
Is that right? You saw no signs of it on your TV?
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Yup. Watched on tv….and however they edited it. You know what I mean, right? I’ll explain…..I wasn’t there. I didn’t examine him. I saw him from multiple cameras that were many if not hundreds of yards away….with his helmet on. I was at home….nowhere near him.
 
SSdoc33 said:
3 ints in the second half because he couldnt remember the plays.

That's 3 for the year so far, even though they are only counting 2

And again, this third one was the occipital area again.

He isn't protecting himself when he gets thrown down
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I hope 43 yo Tua is a stable, productive member of society, and not an impulsive and irrational guy engaging in risky behaviors that ultimately lead him into financial ruin or early death.
 
SSdoc33 said:
3 ints in the second half because he couldnt remember the plays.

That's 3 for the year so far, even though they are only counting 2

And again, this third one was the occipital area again.

He isn't protecting himself when he gets thrown down
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I have not seen it mentioned anywhere that he couldn’t remember the plays. It looked like he was just not reading the defense and his throws were automatic ….based on timing.
 
Doctodd said:
I have not seen it mentioned anywhere that he couldn’t remember the plays. It looked like he was just not reading the defense and his throws were automatic ….based on timing.
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Mostert said it
 
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