Tufts v Einstein

[frosty42]

I’ve already made a post here comparing different schools but with a recent update to my options, I wanted to make a new one.

Personal context
OOS for both
Want to match in the Northeast, most likely in Philly but I feel like I can get there from either school
Interested in neurology but very open minded and potentially interested in more competitive specialties like ophtho

I think for me the biggest factor is going to come down to location. If anyone with personal experience with Tufts or Einstein can speak to that, please let me know.

With Einstein, my biggest hesitation is being in that area of the Bronx where there isn’t a ton to do and it’s kind of a pain to get into Manhattan. Also a pain for me to get to where my family lives from there.
I know that Tufts is in a “rougher” area but that does not deter me at all. Chinatown is close to downtown/great areas of Boston so that’s a plus for Tufts.


Tufts
Pros
- Love the idea of living in Boston (major city but not as big as NYC and much closer to the action than I’d be in the Bronx)
- Greater range of students from different areas (as opposed to a lot of students from NY & NJ which is where I’m from)
- Seems to have nicer facilities than Einstein

Cons
- More expensive (but not by enough to be a major factor for me)
- Farther from home
- Tufts Med << Montefiore
- Recent controversy over the children’s hospital converting to adult care makes me a little wary of the admistration/school as a whole even though I’m not interested in peds personally

Einstein
Pros
- Closeknit feel of having most students live right on the campus
- Better reputation & more research funding than Tufts
- Better clinical affiliates
- Closer to home

Cons
- Religious affiliation
- Lots of students from same area as me
- More outdated facilities

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[voxveritatisetlucis]

Einstein.

Tufts has been having some difficulties ( see closing of Tuft’s Childrens) and imo it may just be the tip of the iceberg.

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Einstein.

Tufts has been having some difficulties ( see closing of Tuft’s Childrens) and imo it may just be the tip of the iceberg.

I don't think it's this straightforward. I've heard closing pediatric programs in favor of being able to better serve the disproportionately large amount of senior citizens in our country is starting to happen in multiple places.

That being said, I don't really know if there's much of a difference in these two schools in terms of prestige and offerings. I def don't think Einstein has the better reputation at all... perhaps solely in the NYC area, but certainly not outside of it. Both are very solid upper mid tier schools. COL at both is going to be among the most expensive in the nation. Both tend to match predominantly into the northeast. I will also add that your concerns over living in the Bronx shouldn't be that big of a hang up... being from NJ uk how easy the subway is. it's 20-30 min subway into downtown and as far as I'm concerned uptown is just as irrelevant as the Bronx for our age group lol. If I were you, I'd choose the one that you feel more excited about. Everything else does not differ significantly to make a real pros vs con list. I applied to both, got into Tufts, and would likely also be torn between the 2 if I were you. Personally, I'd prob end up going to Einstein since I'm also from NJ and would be close to friends. Although Tufts does have the bigger name with more recognition to the layman, which is nice. Can't go wrong w either pick. Congrats on 2 solid choices.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I don't think it's this straightforward. I've heard closing pediatric programs in favor of being able to better serve the disproportionately large amount of senior citizens in our country is starting to happen in multiple places.

That being said, I don't really know if there's much of a difference in these two schools in terms of prestige and offerings. I def don't think Einstein has the better reputation at all... perhaps solely in the NYC area, but certainly not outside of it. Both are very solid upper mid tier schools. COL at both is going to be among the most expensive in the nation. Both tend to match predominantly into the northeast. I will also add that your concerns over living in the Bronx shouldn't be that big of a hang up... being from NJ uk how easy the subway is. it's 20-30 min subway into downtown and as far as I'm concerned uptown is just as irrelevant as the Bronx for our age group lol. If I were you, I'd choose the one that you feel more excited about. Everything else does not differ significantly to make a real pros vs con list. I applied to both, got into Tufts, and would likely also be torn between the 2 if I were you. Personally, I'd prob end up going to Einstein since I'm also from NJ and would be close to friends. Although Tufts does have the bigger name with more recognition to the layman, which is nice. Can't go wrong w either pick. Congrats on 2 solid choices.

After this comment I looked at recent match lists and Tufts actually seems a bit more impressive, but both solid. I saw a thread on here that had Einstein in a category with Columbia, NYU, Weill. I’d take whichever gives you more money. Imo, Boston is a nicer city than NYC and NYC is more expensive.

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

After this comment I looked at recent match lists and Tufts actually seems a bit more impressive, but both solid. I saw a thread on here that had Einstein in a category with Columbia, NYU, Weill. I’d take whichever gives you more money. Imo, Boston is a nicer city than NYC and NYC is more expensive.

Agreed that I'd prob go wherever gives more money, fully disagree with Einstein being compared to Columbia, NYU, or Weill. Those are top of the top and Einstein is upper mid tier through and through, as far as prestige is concerned.

 

[RSVBT]

Hi! MS2 at Einstein. Would love to answer any Q's you have about how it actually feels to live on campus here.

I personally really love it, and getting into the Manhattan is easy if that's what you like to do. I go several times a week via an express bus that comes right in front of housing (just to change up the study scene during online classes). They are no longer religiously affiliated since they became an independent degree-granting institution, and are now super focused on increasing diversity like many US med schools.

 

[ampersandwich]

Tufts has been having some difficulties ( see closing of Tuft’s Childrens) and imo it may just be the tip of the iceberg.

Wanted to generally clear up that Tuft's Children is closing in the sense that it's being converted into a fully adult ICU for financial reasons. This isn't like a Drexel/Hahnemann situation, though it certainly was announced poorly. The closing may present some challenges to current Tufts Peds residents, but my understanding is that they will be getting absorbed by Boston Children's, which is a MUCH higher ranked program (so there might be a silver lining of some sorts). There likely won't be much impact for Tufts med students, since Boston Children's already hosts clinical rotations for HMS/BUSM students.

Personally I would pick based on cost and opportunity. Boston is world-class for research--you can definitely find a mentor in any field you desired and they don't have to be affiliated with Tufts. Both have all the amenities of big cities, but NYC definitely has the better food and nightlife scene. I would be torn, but I think you can't go wrong either way!

 

[pierty]

Cost and location seems to be opposing here. I would consider the fit/culture of each school. Consider unranked pre-clinical programs as well, if that's of interest (for most of us, it is).

I don't think it's this straightforward. I've heard closing pediatric programs in favor of being able to better serve the disproportionately large amount of senior citizens in our country is starting to happen in multiple places.

That being said, I don't really know if there's much of a difference in these two schools in terms of prestige and offerings. I def don't think Einstein has the better reputation at all... perhaps solely in the NYC area, but certainly not outside of it. Both are very solid upper mid tier schools. COL at both is going to be among the most expensive in the nation. Both tend to match predominantly into the northeast. I will also add that your concerns over living in the Bronx shouldn't be that big of a hang up... being from NJ uk how easy the subway is. it's 20-30 min subway into downtown and as far as I'm concerned uptown is just as irrelevant as the Bronx for our age group lol. If I were you, I'd choose the one that you feel more excited about. Everything else does not differ significantly to make a real pros vs con list. I applied to both, got into Tufts, and would likely also be torn between the 2 if I were you. Personally, I'd prob end up going to Einstein since I'm also from NJ and would be close to friends. Although Tufts does have the bigger name with more recognition to the layman, which is nice. Can't go wrong w either pick. Congrats on 2 solid choices.

No such thing as "upper mid tier," or any tiers of the like. Both are strong programs. Einstein has a stronger presence in research and academics.

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Cost and location seems to be opposing here. I would consider the fit/culture of each school. Consider unranked pre-clinical programs as well, if that's of interest (for most of us, it is).


No such thing as "upper mid tier," or any tiers of the like. Both are strong programs. Einstein has a stronger presence in research and academics.

Lol if you don’t think there is a spectrum in regards to prestige/prominence and reputation that can be tiered, you’re sorely mistaken. It’s been done for quite some time. Ever heard of schools referred to as top 10’s 20’s or 50’s? That, in and of itself, is a tiering system. Perhaps you may not opt for the term “upper mid tier” but your “or any tiers of the like” claim is simply untrue. There are, of course, school’s that are better programs than others and that hold some clout on one’s resume. Imo Tufts and Einstein hold about the same weight in this regard.

 

[pierty]

Lol if you don’t think there is a spectrum in regards to prestige/prominence and reputation that can be tiered, you’re sorely mistaken. It’s been done for quite some time. Ever heard of schools referred to as top 10’s 20’s or 50’s? That, in and of itself, is a tiering system. Perhaps you may not opt for the term “upper mid tier” but your “or any tiers of the like” claim is simply untrue. There are, of course, school’s that are better programs than others and that hold some clout on one’s resume. Imo Tufts and Einstein hold about the same weight in this regard.

You are pre med. Most others you likely heard this from are the same.

There is some bias in academia, but not based on any ranking system. There are very few programs at the center, several others that are considered "strong" that are connected to them, and others that are unknown. It is an "in-group vs. out-group" dynamic, based on faculty and some history. It does not stretch any deeper than that, including "tiers."

Many will not choose academia, so this is irrelevant for them.

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

You are pre med. Most others you likely heard this from are the same.

There is some bias in academia, but not based on any ranking system. There are very few programs at the center, several others that are considered "strong" that are connected to them, and others that are unknown. It is an "in-group vs. out-group" dynamic, based on faculty and some history. It does not stretch any deeper than that, including "tiers."

Many will not choose academia, so this is irrelevant for them.

I won’t speak on that middle part, as without either of us providing concrete evidence we are both speaking out of opinion, which is fine.

I think your inference that prestige only matters in academia is, again, missing the mark. Nearly every student will participate in the match, where prestige can play a factor as well. This will vary between specialities and within, based on program director priorities. I’ll point to the entire history of the NRMP survey, where reputation of institution from which the candidate graduated has been consistently reported as a moderately considered variable.

 

[pierty]

I won’t speak on that middle part, as without either of us providing concrete evidence we are both speaking out of opinion, which is fine.

I think your inference that prestige only matters in academia is, again, missing the mark. Nearly every student will participate in the match, where prestige can play a factor as well. This will vary between specialities and within, based on program director priorities. I’ll point to the entire history of the NRMP survey, where reputation of institution from which the candidate graduated has been consistently reported as a moderately considered variable.

Not sure where the "again" comes from. I did not comment on the match. Read my response below. The echo chamber here is a significant, consistent problem among pre-meds.

"This is a complicated question. Everyone - including PDs - value different qualities in candidates. Most value hard-workers over students from med schools they like or respect. Some do not like taking students from certain schools because of biases. Regardless, you won't know what it'll be for you until you submit your application years down the line. Side note - most users here are a minority of echoed-voices that hyper-focuses on perceived prestige. You might come across a PD that has the same mindset, but strictly from averages, you likely will not."

Quote Reply

 

[dmblah]

Personally, if it were me, I would probably lean Einstein just because of the whole Tufts controversy with the peds hospital, like you said. It really just left a bad taste in my mouth. For me, it was more about the fact that the only notice they gave their peds residents was an email the morning they made the public announcement. They didn't even let any M4s who were interviewing there for their peds program know either. The fact that they couldn't let students know what was going on and completely blindsided them I think says a lot about the admin. There was this long reddit thread with the peds residents there talking about how upset and frustrated they were with the admin for not letting them know ahead of time so they could plan accordingly. Idk the whole thing just rubbed me the wrong way and was part of the reason I withdrew my app from there. But since you said location is a big factor for you, I would probably check out the schools in person and see what your impressions are of the area each school is in! Maybe they will have in person second looks you can go to? I will say the proximity to downtown Boston is definitely a plus for Tufts compared to Einstein

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Not sure where the "again" comes from. I did not comment on the match. Read my response below. The echo chamber here is a significant, consistent problem among pre-meds.

"This is a complicated question. Everyone - including PDs - value different qualities in candidates. Most value hard-workers over students from med schools they like or respect. Some do not like taking students from certain schools because of biases. Regardless, you won't know what it'll be for you until you submit your application years down the line. Side note - most users here are a minority of echoed-voices that hyper-focuses on perceived prestige. You might come across a PD that has the same mindset, but strictly from averages, you likely will not."

Quote Reply

Again, see the NRMP surveys that contradict what you're saying. Unless you have something to cite that makes your opinion more than just an opinion, I have to go by the empirical evidence.

 

[pierty]

Again, see the NRMP surveys that contradict what you're saying. Unless you have something to cite that makes your opinion more than just an opinion, I have to go by the empirical evidence.

I am not sure what you mean. I remember the surveys - they showed that a graduate's medical school was behind about a dozen other factors that were considered more important. They also showed that over half of residencies surveyed (which are a sample to begin with) did not consider it at all in their decision-making - not just that it was behind other components, but that it simply wasn't considered. This is not the thread for this, regardless.

 

[yuhh]

After this comment I looked at recent match lists and Tufts actually seems a bit more impressive, but both solid. I saw a thread on here that had Einstein in a category with Columbia, NYU, Weill. I’d take whichever gives you more money. Imo, Boston is a nicer city than NYC and NYC is more expensive.

that thread mixed up einstein with mt sinai lol

 

[pierty]

that thread mixed up einstein with mt sinai lol

They are quite similar (both in NYC, similarly research-focused, many faculty held dual-appointments at Sinai/Einstein when I interviewed). The "top 20" moniker for USN rankings is probably what has you thinking there is much of a difference. The rankings are very badly done, but it's been said many times before and everyone knows that. Even so, Sinai and Einstein were ranked similarly by them until a few years ago.

There was also a ranking published by the official AAMC journal a few years back that was done much better by actual physician scientists. The two (along with NYU) were pretty much equivalent. Anyways, they are all excellent schools if you care about research or academia.

What Makes a Top Research Medical School? A Call for a New... : Academic Medicine

ised the quality of medical education, the educational processes that produce the physicians who provide the best patient care and conduct the best biomedical research have not been identified. Comparative analyses are powerful tools to understand the differences between institutions, but they...

journals.lww.com

 

[maddandadd]

I know this is a few months old, but I just wanted to mention Einstein no longer has a religious affiliation. It certainly still leans Jewish (for lack of a better term) because of its longtime affiliation with Yeshiva, but I think some of that is just a reflection of drawing students from the NYC area. I just wanted to mention that since that would have been a huge con for me (I'm Jewish, but not interested in attending a religiously affiliated school).

In any case, I hope you were able to decide! I was considering Tufts as well but decided on Einstein, mostly for the reasons others have mentioned.