Two Academic Dishonesty Violations

[DA1990]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hi guys. To make a long story short I've received two academic dishonesty violations over the past two semesters at the University of Georgia. The first one was for minor plagiarism on a French oral presentation and the second one was for unauthorized assistance (using my Iphone) during my final exam of my biotechnology lab final which just ended. Neither of these classes are related to my microbio major. I accepted both the sanctions. According to UGA policy if you receive two academic dishonesty violations the student has to get a permanent dishonesty transcript notation and meet with a board that assigns either a suspension, dismissal, or expulsion. I'm praying I won't get expelled. If I do get suspended or dismissed, do I still have any shot at making it into a Caribbean medical school or a DO school. Also if I'm expelled would it possible to go to medical school in India or anywhere else like Europe/abroad. Thanks for the insight. My current GPA is a 3.42 overall and 3.2 bcpm and I got a 28 on the MCAT.

 

[sylvanthus]

I think DO and MD school is out, no clue on caribbean.

 

[LesBois88]

I think DO and MD school is out, no clue on caribbean.

I agree. I think without significant work (probably additional degrees), OP's chances at any US school are very low.

 

[willen101383]

Dude you are most likely screwed. Sorry man but who would want to invest in your education knowing you have been repeatedly dishonest...and would most likely do it again. Its not like both these charges stem from one incident...but holy **** man you would think you would learn after the first offense! Especially if your chance at med school was on the line. Sucks but I dont think any med school in the US is going to take you....not even us lowly DOs 🙄

 

[TriagePreMed]

You have absolutely no chance at MD, DO, or the Caribbean 4. If you want to do medicine, you'll probably have to do a 6 year program in a foreign country.

 

[Kuba]

:troll:

 

[Sinfest]

Email schools anonymously and see what they have to say.

I agree with Willen when he said you should have learned your lesson after your first offense, but who I am to judge you. If you honestly turn over a new leaf after this incident I wish you the best of luck

 

[VeeTeeHokies]

:troll:

👍

 

[Iswhatis]

I wouldn't be too quick to call this guy a troll.

If you get dismissed, you won't be getting your bachelors, right? You need to find out how to get that before you worry about which schools to apply to, because without a B.A or B.S., you will be SOL on Carrib big 4. US MD and DO are out.

If you can't complete your Bachelor's, check out Windsor, All American Institute of Medicine, Destiny School of Medicine, University of Medicine and Health Sciences, and any other lottery Carrib school.

No judgement here, just own your decisions and move on. There are always options to get into Medicine, just some are a bit riskier than others.

 

[DocEspana]

Yea. I'm going to go with you're likely out at any MD or DO school. I'd also assume you're out for the Big 4 carib. I know they are a bit more lenient in some of the european schools that cater to american students, but I dont know specifics.

It does sound like a pretty tight situation you got yourself into man. Have you considered *not* medicine? It may seriously be something you should be strongly looking into before you go and travel to one of the places where everything becomes a super gamble (and I'm not talking about big4 carib, I mean total backwater places that happen to have US approval and teach in english like U of Guadalajara)

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I guess my thought is to see if you can get the 'minor' one reversed. Its probably your only chance... Not sure if you can, but that's the best advice I have other than what's already been posted...

 

[DA1990]

I appreciate all of you guys ragging on me and making me feel worse than I already do. I am not a habitual cheater, I was under immense stress due to family problems this semester and I made a bad decision by trying to see if I got a text message from my father during my final exam. My first violation was so trivial/minor that the consequence for it was rewriting the oral presentation for a maximum grade of 75. I am not a horrible person, but I've made some bad mistakes lately and I am willing to own up to them. All I want is an opportunity but I guess even the chances of that are bleak as of now.

 

[fiznat]

I appreciate all of you guys ragging on me and making me feel worse than I already do. I am not a habitual cheater, I was under immense stress due to family problems this semester and I made a bad decision by trying to see if I got a text message from my father during my final exam. My first violation was so trivial/minor that the consequence for it was rewriting the oral presentation for a maximum grade of 75. I am not a horrible person, but I've made some bad mistakes lately and I am willing to own up to them. All I want is an opportunity but I guess even the chances of that are bleak as of now.

Well, academic dishonesty is pretty serious. I don't think anyone would be doing you a favor to sugarcoat the outlook. If these instances are minor as you say, you should be able to make your case to the board at your hearing.

If you can't, I wouldn't necessarily say you are dead in the water. If becoming a physician is your dream and you can't see yourself doing anything else, there is always a way to make that happen. It won't be an easy road, though. You will probably need to spend a significant amount of time and effort to distance yourself from those events. It seems to me that these mistakes will make things much harder for you, but nothing is impossible if you are willing to work to get there. I'm not sure exactly what those steps would be-- maybe some extra academic work, or post-college professional work in healthcare followed by a post-bacc, I don't know exactly. The opportunity is there, though.

 

[futIDdoc]

Med School is DOA for you.

 

[DocEspana]

I appreciate all of you guys ragging on me and making me feel worse than I already do. I am not a habitual cheater, I was under immense stress due to family problems this semester and I made a bad decision by trying to see if I got a text message from my father during my final exam. My first violation was so trivial/minor that the consequence for it was rewriting the oral presentation for a maximum grade of 75. I am not a horrible person, but I've made some bad mistakes lately and I am willing to own up to them. All I want is an opportunity but I guess even the chances of that are bleak as of now.

Its just the truth on this. If you get that mark in your record you really are overwhelmingly likely to be dead in the water for american schools. Its just the reality of it.

 

[fiznat]

Its just the reality of it.

I'm not sure I agree with you guys. I am 6 years out of undergrad now, and I feel like (although I admit I can never know) that during interviews I was seen much more for the person that I am today than who I was when I was at college. I didn't have any problems with academic dishonesty, but my history was checkered nonetheless. My personal experience has been that solid post-bacc work and a few years separating yourself from "college mistakes" can and does work wonders.

 

[DA1990]

When you say significant do you mean 1-2 years of research/work experience and then maybe a postbacc. Should I consider only applying to DO and Caribbean schools after that time period? I am willing to do whatever it takes to become a doctor. If there aren't any options for me in the US or the Caribbean, I am strongly considering going to India to do my MBBS at KMC Manipal. Would retaking the MCAT and scoring higher improve my chances at all?

 

[DA1990]

I guess I gotta kill myself then

 

[bonsaipalmtree]

you should probably call the schools you are interested in and get advice from their admissions departments, rather than asking here. Yours is a particularly complicated situation, and SDN is often quick to judge with limited information.

Get your info from the sources that will be making your admissions decision.

 

[DocEspana]

I'm not sure I agree with you guys. I am 6 years out of undergrad now, and I feel like (although I admit I can never know) that during interviews I was seen much more for the person that I am today than who I was when I was at college. I didn't have any problems with academic dishonesty, but my history was checkered nonetheless. My personal experience has been that solid post-bacc work and a few years separating yourself from "college mistakes" can and does work wonders.

I can honestly only speak for my school, but I'm the chair of the integrity committee. We're willing to boot people out for getting a text during a test. There is no joking around with cheating at my school. And yet, from conversations I've had with other schools, we're rather light on it as we feel we need to 'prove' cheating. Other schools, if other integrity committee heads are telling the truth, will kick a student out if they have enough people substantiating a story, even without any proof.

Would my school or any of these other (admittedly, all from NY) schools accept someone with any integrity issues on their transcript? No. I agree they care more about who you've become, rather than who you are. But having an academic integrity committee come down on you is one of those black and white rejection things for most, if not all, schools. Like not wearing a tie to an interview, or strapping a dildo to your forehead for the interview.

 

[fiznat]

I can honestly only speak for my school, but I'm the chair of the integrity committee. We're willing to boot people out for getting a text during a test. There is no joking around with cheating at my school. And yet, from conversations I've had with other schools, we're rather light on it as we feel we need to 'prove' cheating. Other schools, if other integrity committee heads are telling the truth, will kick a student out if they have enough people substantiating a story, even without any proof.

Would my school or any of these other (admittedly, all from NY) schools accept someone with any integrity issues on their transcript? No. I agree they care more about who you've become, rather than who you are. But having an academic integrity committee come down on you is one of those black and white rejection things for most, if not all, schools. Like not wearing a tie to an interview, or strapping a dildo to your forehead for the interview.

LOL fair enough. Clearly you know more about the inner workings of this process than I do. Still, I think it is good advice for the OP to give it a shot if he really feels that strongly about it. There are a lot of schools out there, surely someone, somewhere might be able to look past this given the right circumstances and objective, verifiable change over a number of years. Maybe not, though.

Also,

I agree they care more about who you've become, rather than who you are.

Hey! Who I've become IS who I am! 😛

 

[Regal Regan]

When you say significant do you mean 1-2 years of research/work experience and then maybe a postbacc. Should I consider only applying to DO and Caribbean schools after that time period? I am willing to do whatever it takes to become a doctor. If there aren't any options for me in the US or the Caribbean, I am strongly considering going to India to do my MBBS at KMC Manipal. Would retaking the MCAT and scoring higher improve my chances at all?

You need years of distance. However you do that is up to you, but I wouldn't apply to med school right out of college. Also, I don't know why you're making a distinction between US MD and US DO. When it comes to academic dishonesty, BOTH take it just as seriously. If it's a numbers thing, then yes DO is your best shot with your GPA and MCAT, but when talking about your record, I'd say that you have about as much shot as getting MD as you do DO and that shot would be after several years (3-5) of distance from those infractions with something meaningful done in those years that will change who you are right now, at least as far impulsive decisions go.

Also, I wouldn't try to justify anything as you did here. A med school is never going to want to hear that an academic dishonesty charge was "so minor that..."

 

[Postal]

Just call or e-mail the schools anonymously and see what they say. Take a couple of years doing a job that requires people trusting you. Come back, apply, say you've grown up and learned from your mistakes. First step should probably be: praying and hoping you don't get dismissed.

 

[munchymanRX]

Hi guys. To make a long story short I've received two academic dishonesty violations over the past two semesters at the University of Georgia. The first one was for minor plagiarism on a French oral presentation and the second one was for unauthorized assistance (using my Iphone) during my final exam of my biotechnology lab final which just ended. Neither of these classes are related to my microbio major. I accepted both the sanctions. According to UGA policy if you receive two academic dishonesty violations the student has to get a permanent dishonesty transcript notation and meet with a board that assigns either a suspension, dismissal, or expulsion. I'm praying I won't get expelled. If I do get suspended or dismissed, do I still have any shot at making it into a Caribbean medical school or a DO school. Also if I'm expelled would it possible to go to medical school in India or anywhere else like Europe/abroad. Thanks for the insight. My current GPA is a 3.42 overall and 3.2 bcpm and I got a 28 on the MCAT.

You're not going to medical school, man. Sorry. Gotta stop cheating on those tests...🙄

 

[NurWollen]

There's probably a way to make med school happen for you... it will obviously take a lot of time, but hey, don't give up on your dreams. Some of the lesser-known foreign options might work for you as well, if you work hard so you can get a residency here.

I would focus on yourself first... before you try to convince adcom's that you've change, you really do have to change. If you can change your attitude towards academic honesty, in your heart... I think that can shine through someday. You really have to be converted to academic honesty though. And once that has happened, make that a centerpiece of your life. Find ways to show it, start a campaign for academic honesty, that sort of thing. If you can do all that with sincerity, I think doors will eventually be reopened for you.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I don't believe that these ideas of you doing a post-bacc will work at all. These are great solutions for students that have to shadow some bad grades in the past. First, deal with your school. Try anything and everything possible not to be expelled. Second, you will not get into medical school. Your chances are effectively zero. You have 2 incidents under your belt. Your problem is one of honesty, and while I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your dad's story, given that it is your second mistake, nobody is going to buy it. The only way to distance yourself from these mistakes is with years and proof. We're talking about 10 years and have substantial work that proves your judgment as a human being. Try doing social work or something. Even then you might still remain dead on arrival.

Also, you shouldn't make a distinction here between US MD and DO. They are identical when it comes to academic integrity and honesty. Numbers-wise you may have more luck at DO schools, but that's slowly eroding and exceptions are mostly reflective of the hollistic approach that's given to students that have a track record that's unconventional; not under-performers.

Lastly, be careful of a foreign MD. You may never practice medicine in the United States. When the board of licensing gets a hold of your transcript (and they will), they could deny you.

 

[twinklystar]

your situation does look tight, in terms of US and caribbean big 4, i agree, but if you really want to go into medicine, then i don't think it should be totally impossible. specially for those low-tier caribbean schools. ofcourse, caribbean carries along with itself a risk. but yes, windsor, MUA, etc. - i really don't see why caribbean MD should be completely impossible for you, specially with a 28 mcat and 3 + gpa. just try not to get expelled. 🙂 ofcourse, though, there's a lot of risk when it comes to foreign medical degrees, specially caribbean.

but here's something I don't get: why does having violations on transcript make it officially impossible for someone to get into a medical school here, irrespective of their grades. I mean, yes academic violation is serious, but everyone makes mistakes. There are so many people who make mistakes but at some point decide to turn over a new leaf; i feel, in such cases, there should always be some way to work them into the programs, if they display academic competence. even in medical school, there are so many stepping stones, where students can be monitored and judged for academic honesty. everyone should be given a chance, if they're willing to change their ways. just my two cents.

 

[JUNESPEARL]

Also, you shouldn't make a distinction here between US MD and DO. They are identical when it comes to academic integrity and honesty. Numbers-wise you may have more luck at DO schools, but that's slowly eroding and exceptions are mostly reflective of the hollistic approach that's given to students that have a track record that's unconventional; not under-performers.

👍👍👍

 

[TriagePreMed]

but here's something I don't get: why does having violations on transcript make it officially impossible for someone to get into a medical school here, irrespective of their grades. I mean, yes academic violation is serious, but everyone makes mistakes. There are so many people who make mistakes but at some point decide to turn over a new leaf; i feel, in such cases, there should always be some way to work them into the programs, if they display academic competence. even in medical school, there are so many stepping stones, where students can be monitored and judged for academic honesty. everyone should be given a chance, if they're willing to change their ways. just my two cents.

This also the case on many criminal offenses. For example, I knew someone that got caught falsifying prescriptions. That person would never go to medical school, and even if they did, licensing is too tough.

Running the risk of accepting a student that's dishonest is too great for medical school. For one, they might be wasting their time training a student that could end up being kicked out for the same reason. There's absolutely no way to measure a person's character when it comes to this, whereas with grades you can take more/new classes and certain crimes can be amended for (going to AA if you had a DUI or join MADD).

And yes, everyone deserves a second chance, but you shouldn't just give it blindly. The school already has given a second shot to the OP and he blew it. If he gets expelled, it will be no surprise. In that case, he has to worry about even being able to get a bachelors degree. He'll likely be forced into some school that's for profit (i.e. university of phoenix, devry, etc.)

 

[IDoIt4Love]

I had a friend who got kicked out of William & Mary for plagiarizing a paper for some gen ed class his freshman year. He transferred to another university to finish his bachelors and with great grades and MCAT he was rejected from MD programs over the course of two application rounds. However, he made it into a couple of DO programs and is currently a med student. In addition to the plagiarizing incident I believe he also had a DUI on his record. His stats, while not perfect, were way better than yours, however. I'm thinking MD is probably out of the question for you, but maybe applying early and broadly you might have a shot at DO...but yeah, Caribbean sounds like the most likely option at this point.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

there is no excuse for cheating. It is on your transcript and if you are lucky, remotely, enough to get an interview, you can bet your bottom dollar it will come up. And as stated before, there is no excuse. So there will be nothing to say.

Since you have been caught twice cheating, plagiarism IS cheating, then what is to say that you will not cheat in medical school again? Nothing.

While I am not the kind of person who would normally tell people not to pursue something, I would not be doing you a favor if I would tell you to try. Because then you would be throwing good money after bad.

Good luck.

 

[DrFraud]

I appreciate all of you guys ragging on me and making me feel worse than I already do.

I am willing to bet that at least one person who has posted on this thread critical of you has at least at one point cheated in school, and in reality, lots of pre-meds and medical students at some point or another will cheat in one form or another.....BUT YOU REALLY NEED TO STOP CHEATING, not just because it is a wrong way to get through school, but also because by getting caught twice so far, you have shown that you are clearly not very good at it, and you put your career at a huge risk when ever you try to do it!!!!

Lots of students have trouble coping with stress, and you are not alone. Some people like you make bad choices, either by taking drugs, driving while drunk, cheating, or any assortmant of self-destructive stuff. Before concentrating on getting into medical school, you really should try and focus on getting through a few semesters without cheating, and figuring out what stressors make you do this and how you will find other ways to cope in a way that is not so self destructive.

But don't let the folks judging you get you down....in the end I know by probability that there are a few people buryed in the hyperbole in this thread that have done what you did (albiet they are slightly better at doing it without getting caught then you are)

In the end people tend to like to catagorize others as either good or bad, when in reality most people are somewhere in the middle. Getting through life is often a product of how well you can get though the speed bumps in life to make yourself a better person.

 

[shushumiga]

Hi guys. To make a long story short I've received two academic dishonesty violations over the past two semesters at the University of Georgia. The first one was for minor plagiarism on a French oral presentation and the second one was for unauthorized assistance (using my Iphone) during my final exam of my biotechnology lab final which just ended. Neither of these classes are related to my microbio major. I accepted both the sanctions. According to UGA policy if you receive two academic dishonesty violations the student has to get a permanent dishonesty transcript notation and meet with a board that assigns either a suspension, dismissal, or expulsion. I'm praying I won't get expelled. If I do get suspended or dismissed, do I still have any shot at making it into a Caribbean medical school or a DO school. Also if I'm expelled would it possible to go to medical school in India or anywhere else like Europe/abroad. Thanks for the insight. My current GPA is a 3.42 overall and 3.2 bcpm and I got a 28 on the MCAT.

In all honesty I am going to say NO, you don't have any chance of getting into a DO school or Carribean (Big 4). I don't think you should even think about going into medicine right now. Academic dishonesty is a very serious thing and to think about attending professional school isn't right. You may, however, try and apply to a European med school and do a 6 year program. Try researching some of the schools there, contact them and explain your situation. A friend of mine plagiarised on his final paper for Englishhhh and received academic dishonesty just like you. He wanted to go to law school and every school that he applied to rejected him because of the academic dishonesty on his transcript. Good luck to you.

 

[amt5223]

In addition to the schools concern over your tendency to cheat, adcoms consider character with regards that physicians are entrusted to hold peoples' private information in confidence. If you can not demonstrate trustworthiness in the academic setting, they are unlikely to believe you could demonstrate it professionally either.

If you really, really want to go to medical school. Call an attorney. A few thousand dollars in legal fee's might makes this go away. This would be better than finding international programs or doing years of additional work.

But really, talk to some family or friends that will give it to you straight, there are professional duties of confidence an privacy that you truly cannot commit to yet.

Either way, good luck.

 

[thepoopologist]

First of all, DA1990, no normal person entertains the idea of killing themselves because they cannot go to medical school. It is one of many roads you can take in life and one career should never define a person. If I wasn't in medical school I would've pursued another interest.

I appreciate all of you guys ragging on me and making me feel worse than I already do. I am not a habitual cheater, I was under immense stress due to family problems this semester and I made a bad decision by trying to see if I got a text message from my father during my final exam. My first violation was so trivial/minor that the consequence for it was rewriting the oral presentation for a maximum grade of 75. I am not a horrible person, but I've made some bad mistakes lately and I am willing to own up to them. All I want is an opportunity but I guess even the chances of that are bleak as of now.

There are people under immense stress who do not take their iPhone out in the middle of a final exam. A move like that can get you immediately expelled from my school, where there are many, many stressful exams.

If I were you I would have talk to a lawyer and see if you can come up with a good reason, however baseless, to threaten them with a lawsuit and get them to expunge the dishonesty notation from your record, regardless of whether you are forced to leave or not.

I do not recommend applying to medical school, because this may come up again when you are up to your eyes in debt and school work and stress at a Caribbean school and then you will be kicked out having wasted many years of your life.

If you insist on applying, I think your realistic chances are in the Caribbean or a true overseas medical school that caters to Americans.

 

[thepoopologist]

A nice quote from a cross-post:

I'm not going to answer your question, but point out that although you have "accepted both of the sanctions" it does not appear that you have truly learned your lesson. You were caught cheating once, and then the next semester cheated again. I should note that these were two times where you were caught -- it's very likely you cheated elsewhere and were not caught.

I worry that you have a problem. Your response to stress in your exams/courses is to cheat. You may rationalize this by saying that everyone else does it, so you need to. If so, it will continue in medical school and they will not be as forgiving, and any significant dishonesty during residency training can end your career instantly.

I would worry less about what non-US school you can get into, and more about how you plan to address this going forward.

 

[gatorfann14]

All these posts are just plain old nonsense. I am an avid House, MD fan and he cheated at HOPKINS and is now one of the biggest OGs in medicine.


But seriously you made mistakes, we all have. You just need to make sure from now on that they are new ones. Take time away from school after graduation (if you don't get kicked out) so you can distance yourself from the incident and show maturity. Then and only then try and jump back in. You are in for a long and sad road for a while(not just because you will continue to lose football games at the end of Oct), but if you want it bad enough then I see no reason why you shouldn't prevail.

 

[Mahliah]

If you were receiving a text message from your father, why you accept the sanction?

 

[JJMrK]

This thread has been reported by several members due to the statement by the OP about self-harm. SDN takes such statements seriously and we would like to remind the OP and all posters that SDN should not serve as a place to obtain counseling or other advice regarding significant psychological issues. Anyone who is contemplating harming themselves should immediately seek professional counseling advice, not rely on SDN or other non-professional resources.

Members who have serious concerns about their career and would like to post details more anonymously may do so in the Confidential Consult forum.

At this time, given the nature of the thread and the concerns expressed, the moderation staff of SDN will close this thread.