Two Questions Re:Hours

[hopefulinva]

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So... for animal hours from personal pets:

I've heard a couple of different things on this subject.

On the one hand, I've heard it's best to leave hours involving the care of your own pets off the list. On the other, I've heard it's acceptable, as long as you're not seriously overexaggerating the hours - for example, just because you owned a rabbit when you were 5 years old doesn't mean you actually took care of it (let's be honest here).

So... what's a good cut-off? I don't live on a farm or anything, but - like many of you - I've had animals all my life. Cats, dogs, budiges, geckoes, rabbits, hamsters, mice, guinea pigs...


Second Question:
When I was in fifth or sixth grade I designed, carried out, and presented a research project for my school science fair involving the expectation of offspring colorations from brown and white mice (the title wasn't that sophisticated). I had the whole shebang; multiple groups (white x white, brown x brown, white x brown, brown x white) - only 1 iteration of each (that's a lot of mice) - and a hypothesis based on Punnet charts and basic Mendelian genetics... I don't mean to toot my own horn, but for an elementary schooler it was a pretty badass project.

Do I include this as 'research' hours?

 

[heylodeb]

So... for animal hours from personal pets:

I've heard a couple of different things on this subject.

On the one hand, I've heard it's best to leave hours involving the care of your own pets off the list. On the other, I've heard it's acceptable, as long as you're not seriously overexaggerating the hours - for example, just because you owned a rabbit when you were 5 years old doesn't mean you actually took care of it (let's be honest here).

So... what's a good cut-off? I don't live on a farm or anything, but - like many of you - I've had animals all my life. Cats, dogs, budiges, geckoes, rabbits, hamsters, mice, guinea pigs...


Second Question:
When I was in fifth or sixth grade I designed, carried out, and presented a research project for my school science fair involving the expectation of offspring colorations from brown and white mice (the title wasn't that sophisticated). I had the whole shebang; multiple groups (white x white, brown x brown, white x brown, brown x white) - only 1 iteration of each (that's a lot of mice) - and a hypothesis based on Punnet charts and basic Mendelian genetics... I don't mean to toot my own horn, but for an elementary schooler it was a pretty badass project.

Do I include this as 'research' hours?

1. Call the schools you are applying to. It seems some schools want them and others don't. IIRC, MOST schools don't count personal animals for experience.

2. uhh... No. That's not research....

Although it is a pretty cool experiment for the age that you were, you were merely copying someone elses experiment. (which has been replicated MANY MANY times)

 

[hopefulinva]

2. uhh... No. That's not research....

Although it is a pretty cool experiment for the age that you were, you were merely copying someone elses experiment. (which has been replicated MANY MANY times)

Actually called VMCAS, they told me to count it. Score. 😉

Also - regardless of the fact that it is an experiment that's been performed many times, none of my work was copied. All original. =) I was applying stuff we had covered in life sciences to something I was interested in (genetics v. breeding), developed the hypothesis myself, got a hold of the mice, etc.

Just because it's been done before doesn't mean it's a copy, no?

 

[Minnerbelle]

Actually called VMCAS, they told me to count it. Score. 😉

😱

who woulda thunk it? so my question is... VMCAS says it wouldn't be wrong to put it down... but is it a good idea?
I mean, if you're happy with your science fair experiment, that's cool... but how would adcoms feel about that? It might be a good idea to also call up all the schools you're applying to and ask what they think (ultimately, they make the decisions. not vmcas).

'cause as someone with a research background, if I saw someone put down 5th/6th grade science fair for "research experience," I'd give them minus points for not understanding what research is. But that's just me, and my opinions count even less than that of VMCAS so feel free to ignore. Seriously though, call up the schools you're applying to and poll them to be on the safe side.

 

[Trematode]

The school I am applying to will not look at any experience older than 5 years, let alone back when I was in elementary school. I do not think it is a good idea to put it down, just so you have something in the research column. Couldn't you put it down as husbandry or something like that?

 

[hopefulinva]

😱

who woulda thunk it? so my question is... VMCAS says it wouldn't be wrong to put it down... but is it a good idea?

It shows initiative, a predilection for research, and a zeal for learning?

Okay, okay, I'll call my schools. 😉

 

[Trematode]

I would be a little concerned about how the evaluators would take it. Sure, a few may think it shows initiative. But some may be pretty confused or have mixed feelings about you deciding to include something of that nature. Although cool, it is not as intensive as university-level research (you know, which the fancy equipment, the lab, the PI and the possible publications and all haha). Also, I browsed through the recent accepted applicants threads. When people decide to include something that old, they usually have a large number of hours to go with it, such as riding horses or fostering animals. I designed, carried out and wrote large reports on two experiments for my IB Biology class. If I had the option to include that, I would likely leave it out. It just does not seem as impressive as some of the other work I have done since then. Another suggestion is that you somehow work it into your essays or PS.

 

[Minnerbelle]

It shows initiative, a predilection for research, and a zeal for learning?

love the optimism. you definitely have a talent for selling yourself, which is very important 🙂. but i'd use it a bit more judiciously. i mean, would a 20+ year old with only an elementary school science fair experience really show predilection for research?

 

[hopefulinva]

i mean, would a 20+ year old with only an elementary school science fair experience really show predilection for research?

I do have several years of University research, too. 😉 Also, I tried to start a Research Club at my school when I was in 1st grade, so maybe if I work that in there somewhere...

😉

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I appreciate it. =)

 

[Minnerbelle]

I do have several years of University research, too. 😉 Also, I tried to start a Research Club at my school when I was in 1st grade, so maybe if I work that in there somewhere...

😉

How about instead of putting those young'un experiences in the experience section, you mention it briefly in your PS? I think it might make a cute intro for how you got interested in vet med/research.

 

[heylodeb]

😱

'cause as someone with a research background, if I saw someone put down 5th/6th grade science fair for "research experience," I'd give them minus points for not understanding what research is. But that's just me, and my opinions count even less than that of VMCAS so feel free to ignore. Seriously though, call up the schools you're applying to and poll them to be on the safe side.

👍👍👍

My first impression (and please don't take this TOO personally) was that hopefulinva must be extremely naive about what research actually consists of. (I know you've had experience in university level research. Just talking about my FIRST impression) I'm not an adcom but to me it definitely doesn't seem appropriate to put on an application for professional school. It would be super cute to put in a personal statement, tho...

Just my $0.02. Take it or leave it. 🙂

 

[hopefulinva]

Rats, I just got my PS under 5,000 characters, too... Oh well. Still some time to rework it a bit. =)

Good advice, all!


heylodeb - no hard feelings =)

 

[jtom]

I Think VMCAS indirectly says that this "research" is not acceptable. On the experiences instructions, I thought it said do not go back any farther than high school. I take that as meaning that anything before that is not valid. I personally would never put something like that on my application.

 

[LMMS]

Second Question:
When I was in fifth or sixth grade I designed, carried out, and presented a research project for my school science fair involving the expectation of offspring colorations from brown and white mice (the title wasn't that sophisticated). I had the whole shebang; multiple groups (white x white, brown x brown, white x brown, brown x white) - only 1 iteration of each (that's a lot of mice) - and a hypothesis based on Punnet charts and basic Mendelian genetics... I don't mean to toot my own horn, but for an elementary schooler it was a pretty badass project.

Do I include this as 'research' hours?

I'm going to start this by saying that I've had a LONG ass day, and there's really no end in site. Thus I'm going to ask that you read this with the proverbial gain of salt as it's highly probable that it's not going to sound very 'nice'. I'm about to use some of my best sarcasm in order to illustrate my point on this subject...

Although this project was quite ambitious for your average 11 year old, it is not, I repeat: NOT classifiable as research on a professional school application. Granted, you probably did show that a Punnet square ain't all it's cracked up to be when you cross bred the brown and white. And I'm willing to bet that you got yourself an 'A'. However, you say in this statement that you crossed white x brown twice without indicating a gender. Switching the position of the words says nothing and could be taken as you had had two white females and two brown males and said what the heck - two groups! Again, for an 11 year old, fantastic. Also, I'm sure that you won some type of prize as your average middle school student would rather show the effects of vinegar on baking soda. But please, I beseech, do not defile the research section of the VMCAS by placing this in there when there are those of us who have extensive graduate and professional research backgrounds.

Don't mean to toot my own horn, but the see the little glowing monkey I have as my avatar? THAT, my dear, is what is classifiable as genetic research for a professional school application. Badass, no? 😎

 

[hopefulinva]

Don't mean to toot my own horn, but the see the little glowing monkey I have as my avatar? THAT, my dear, is what is classifiable as genetic research for a professional school application. Badass, no? 😎

Quite. =)

Loved the advice, wish it had kept up with the thread a bit more though. Thanks!

 

[RackingHorse]

I done a project somewhat similar to this in sixth grade. My project was on "Can the Fish "Betta Splendens" Be Bred At Home." This was a project that required a lot of work, my bedroom had fish tanks up one wall and down the other, and I even won the school science fair with this project. However, I have not even considered putting this on an application to vet school. Like some of the others have said, you may find a way to work it into you're personal statement, but I would not list it as research. Like on other one has said previously, if I were an adcom I would probably take away points for listing a grade school project as research.

 

[squirrelsrule]

I would never in a million years consider putting a middle school science fair project down. I think we all had to do them and let's face it, it might have been big time for us then, but in the grand scheme of things it was no where near research. I did a project in 7th grade on green anoles changing colors. Won a ribbon and everything in my group and got an A+, but it was no where near the level I would consider to be something to put on a vet school application.

You could have an interesting PS if you are interested in going into research showing how your love for research has grown and your knowledge is increasing and where you plan to go with it in the future. Like Minnerbelle said, it could be a cute intro.

 

[twelvetigers]

I think the point has been thoroughly made - no science fair projects. OP is probably thinking, "Sheesh, okay, I got it, I got it!"

 

[PetPony]

I think the point has been thoroughly made - no science fair projects. OP is probably thinking, "Sheesh, okay, I got it, I got it!"

👍

I was thinking that too.

 

[nuevaburra]

Shooot. There was a research section??? I just put it under employment aka bringing home the microbiologist bacon. But I think entering 7 years of coursework fried my brain on the VMCAS app. I was basically drooling by the time I got to that part....

 

[hopefulinva]

👍

I was thinking that too.

Thank you for that. =)

I did end up mentioning it in my PS, which I think is the best way I could have done it; again, feedback is a very good thing!


@nuevaburra - There wasn't a formal "Research" section, no. Don't worry, you didn't miss it. 😉