Two Ws and an F! What to do.

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brightness

brightness

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ECH.
I sort of forgot about this in a post I made a couple of days ago. I am a junior/senior with a psychology major who is considering trying to take the prerequisite courses for medical school admission. I am having some problems with my timeline, which I discussed earlier.
The more I thought about it the more I realized that I also have some preexisting scholastic booboos. First of all, my freshman year I failed math, then retook it the next semester and got a D. I have also withdrawn from human anatomy and chemistry, which really worries me because bothof those are very science oriented. I shouldn't have withdrawn from human anatomy, because I wasn't doing that well, but in the case of chemistry, I just really didn't know what I was getting myself into, and I had a horrible professor. I didn't understand what I was doing from day 1.
I am terrified of the coursework for pre med but I do think I really want this, and so I have to fight to get through it. Now I am worried about these Ws and my F, too. Not to mention the fact that I will have to take organic chemistry with physics to make it into medical school by my self imposed deadline- to be able to apply/ matriculate with my boyfriend.
 
brightness said:
ECH.
I sort of forgot about this in a post I made a couple of days ago. I am a junior/senior with a psychology major who is considering trying to take the prerequisite courses for medical school admission. I am having some problems with my timeline, which I discussed earlier.
The more I thought about it the more I realized that I also have some preexisting scholastic booboos. First of all, my freshman year I failed math, then retook it the next semester and got a D. I have also withdrawn from human anatomy and chemistry, which really worries me because bothof those are very science oriented. I shouldn't have withdrawn from human anatomy, because I wasn't doing that well, but in the case of chemistry, I just really didn't know what I was getting myself into, and I had a horrible professor. I didn't understand what I was doing from day 1.
I am terrified of the coursework for pre med but I do think I really want this, and so I have to fight to get through it. Now I am worried about these Ws and my F, too. Not to mention the fact that I will have to take organic chemistry with physics to make it into medical school by my self imposed deadline- to be able to apply/ matriculate with my boyfriend.
Click to expand...

In all honesty, you have an uphill battle ahead of you (moreso than other premeds). You have to demonstrate a strong improvement from here on, and the convention is taking around 2-3 sciences each semester. If there were other extenuating circumstances that aversely affected your F, D, and W grades, then you should note them in your personal statement. However, if the reasons are that the classes were difficult, it may be a problem, because many other students do not have a problem with it.

Perhaps I incorrectly read this, but when you stated, "I shouldn't have withdrawn from human anatomy, because I wasn't doing that well..." I want to understand that you withdrew from the class because you weren't doing well academically.

If you are certain this is a path you want to pursue, and you show a significant improvement in your coursework, then graduating in a littler longer time than the deadline you imposed to get the grades you need while maintaining a rigorous enough courseload provides the best option.

I hope this doesn't come off harsh, because I'm trying to provide some possible solutions/input.

Good luck!
 
brightness said:
ECH.
I sort of forgot about this in a post I made a couple of days ago. I am a junior/senior with a psychology major who is considering trying to take the prerequisite courses for medical school admission. I am having some problems with my timeline, which I discussed earlier.
The more I thought about it the more I realized that I also have some preexisting scholastic booboos. First of all, my freshman year I failed math, then retook it the next semester and got a D. I have also withdrawn from human anatomy and chemistry, which really worries me because bothof those are very science oriented. I shouldn't have withdrawn from human anatomy, because I wasn't doing that well, but in the case of chemistry, I just really didn't know what I was getting myself into, and I had a horrible professor. I didn't understand what I was doing from day 1.
I am terrified of the coursework for pre med but I do think I really want this, and so I have to fight to get through it. Now I am worried about these Ws and my F, too. Not to mention the fact that I will have to take organic chemistry with physics to make it into medical school by my self imposed deadline- to be able to apply/ matriculate with my boyfriend.
Click to expand...

I'll put it bluntly. Medical school isn't easy. If you are having so many problems with undergraduate level courses, do you think you have what it takes to get through the rigors of becoming a doctor?
 
sorry, but you might want to consider different careers
 
I don't think it's harsh to say that you probably aren't fit for med school. There's a reason why not everyone becomes a md.
 
While it is certainly possible that you are not cut out for medicine (and I must say I am worried by the way it seems you only are interested if you can do it with your boyfriend) it's not a forgone conclusion.

Will two W's and an F hurt? Sure, but they were accumulated before you became a premed. The real question is whether you can handle tough classes now.

Now, about the bf issue: If you missed your self-imposed deadline and had to apply for a different year (or school) than your bf, would you still want to do medicine? If the answer is no, I'd do a lot of soul searching about this.
 
Dendrite said:
If there were other extenuating circumstances that aversely affected your F, D, and W grades, then you should note them in your personal statement.
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Don't do this if you plan on applying to MSU. The application "rater" doesn't even see your grades before your PS and volunteering such info in the PS could be disastrous.
 
people with F's, D's, C's, W's, No Pass, etc. have gotten into medical school. 🙄
 
While I didn't have an F, I did have two C's and two W's and got in....
 
Well, I don't know all the details of your poor academic performance in these classes, but after reading your post I get the impression that you bail when the going gets tough. If this is how adcoms assess you as well, then you probably don't have much of a chance of getting in. I'd suggest if this is really what you want, show some very substantial improvements, do well on the MCAT, and be prepared to talk about these courses in an interview. I wouldn't necessarily talk about them in your personal statement cause it may sound like you are trying to make excuses. Do well from here on out and show that you are more dedicated to doing well now. Then you can attribute this academic performance early on to lack of maturity and motivation to an initial career path you were never very thrilled about (psychology). Good luck on whatever you decide.
 
I do have a legitimate problem that kept me from keeping my 'head in the game' in these classes. But I don't think that I should state it in my personal statement, because it certainly isn't indicative of future success.
In 2006 I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder after a whole life of struggling. I have been through so much and only through the use the medicine have I gotten better. Prior to this year I was committed to becoming a psychologist, until I used psychiatric medication and finally got my life back. I was so afraid to get 'medical' help or to use medicine- but it saved my life. I wanted to die and I am back on my feet, and to be really honest, I thank God everyday for the psychiatric medication I am using. It was hard for me to not 'bail' when the going got tough, because I was so afraid I wouldn't be able to pull through and I wouldn't be able to rectify my GPA. And for awhile I was so overwhelmed by trying to keep my head above water. I actually feel quite blessed to still have a 3.45 at this point.
At any rate, I do think some of you are right. But I know I can help people realize their potential, deal with adversity, and survice difficult situations. I know I can be excellent at this job, maybe more so than people who are superior to me academically. Who knows. 😳
 
I think the best course of action would be to take a post-bacc program and raise your GPA. Its worked for a lot of people who had a tough start in undergrad.

brightness said:
At any rate, I do think some of you are right. But I know I can help people realize their potential, deal with adversity, and survice difficult situations. I know I can be excellent at this job, maybe more so than people who are superior to me academically.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but how would you be able to show something like this to the interviewer? Everybody has had to deal with adversity and face personal situations. Everybody thinks they can become excellent doctors.

brightness said:
I was so afraid to get 'medical' help or to use medicine- but it saved my life. I wanted to die and I am back on my feet, and to be really honest, I thank God everyday for the psychiatric medication I am using.
Click to expand...
Its interesting you would thank God for the medication.
 
So, you have to apply and matriculate with your boyfriend? Well, where do you stand with pre-reqs? When are you planning to apply? What is your science gpa? What kind of volunteering/EC/clinical experience are you working on? What LORs will you get? We can't really tell you anything if we don't know your "status" currently...
 
brianmartin said:
So, you have to apply and matriculate with your boyfriend? Well, where do you stand with pre-reqs? When are you planning to apply? What is your science gpa? What kind of volunteering/EC/clinical experience are you working on? What LORs will you get? We can't really tell you anything if we don't know your "status" currently...
Click to expand...

Exactly. Nobody is going to let you just because your boyfriend is going to med school.
 
sylus said:
Agreed, I'd personally be thanking the scientists who created it...
Click to expand...

😕 Why can't you thank God for medication? God and medicine/science aren't mutually exclusive.

To the OP, add me to the list of people who got into med school with less than stellar numbers (had a D and a W in undergrad). I did well in med school and am now going into a competitive specialty.

As some have stated in this thread, your level of commitment will determine whether your grades hold you back. With a cumulative GPA of >3.45 (I'm assuming you will continue to do well), some good research and volunteering experience, and a very good MCAT, I think you could get in even without a postbacc. It wouldn't be easy and it may not be a top-tier school, but it is certainly doable. Frankly, I think your diagnosis of bipolar disorder is pertinent, especially if your grades improved significantly after starting medication. I had the pleasure of being on the admissions committee for my med school and if I read your essay and saw that your grades improved after diagnosis and treatment, I would be inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt.

At the end of the day, you have to want to do this for you. The stresses of med school are significant under the best of circumstances. If you are doing it for someone else, it will become torture. Please think about what it is you truly want and good luck with your endeavors.
 
I don't have to apply and matriculate with him, and I will still want to pursue medicine if it is impossible for me to do so. But I would really like to be able to do it that way.
My pre-reqs: I have very little. All the bio. I will have to take Chem 1 next semester, Chem 2 summer semester, and then Organic 1 with Physics 1 and Organic 2 with Physics 2 the year after that, which will bring me to fall '09. I will apply then to hopefully matriculate in fall '10.
My science classes are pretty limited to biology, so a great deal of that would be up in the air. But, for my biology classes, my GPA is a 3.6. Most of the overall problem with my GPA was the class I flunked freshman year and some of my research methods/stats classes where I haven't done that well and have gotten Cs. I'm so weak at math, which I think is going to be my biggest problem hands down, and is the biggest source of my anxiety.
I am a TA for one of the psychology faculty, so I was hoping to get an LOR from her. Other than that, I am not sure. I worked for a veterinarian for 3 years, so that seems like a good reference, but I think most references are supposed to be university oriented.
I have very little clinical experience; I am volunteering at the hospital and that is it. I have a great deal of clinical experience with animals! Too bad that doesn't count. I think it might be a good idea for me to become a nurses's assistant, although I don't know when I will have to take the class. I am a member of a few clubs, but none of them are really awesome extracurriculars; the premed club, the student environmental alliance, psychology honor society, and the biology honor society.
Thats my status.

brianmartin said:
So, you have to apply and matriculate with your boyfriend? Well, where do you stand with pre-reqs? When are you planning to apply? What is your science gpa? What kind of volunteering/EC/clinical experience are you working on? What LORs will you get? We can't really tell you anything if we don't know your "status" currently...
Click to expand...
 
I thank the scientists as well.
Actually, this whole thing is a big part of the reason why I want to go to medical school in the first place. As I mentioned, my field of study prior to considering medicine was psychology. I've always been interested in helping people live better lives and in psychopathology. I refused to take medicine for the longest time, thinking that therapy would eventually put me back on my feet, but when things really got messed up, I decided to give the medicine a try, and it changed my life. That lead me to be increasingly curious about medicine and the way that the brain functions, and to feel like my understanding of mental illness just couldn't be complete without an understanding of the nuerological mechanisms. Also, I felt like my clinical practice wouldn't be complete if I couldn't help people become better with medicine, if they needed it.


sylus said:
Agreed, I'd personally be thanking the scientists who created it...
Click to expand...
 
eikenhein said:
Lets not get into a God vs. Science debate. God didn't create the medication. People did.
Click to expand...

No debate. But since you brought it up, I think I have every right to question your statement. Based on my question, I think you can guess where I stand regarding the issue.

And that's all that needs to be said about that.

On Topic: OP, the more clinical experience you can get with people (volunteering, shadowing, etc), the better. I don't know how much weight veterinary LOR will carry. You've got time to rectify what happened in your freshman year. It appears that you have most of your important classes ahead of you, so make the most of them. It will take a lot of effort on your part to make things happen within the next 1.5 - 2 years, but it can be done. If that seems too stressful, consider doing the post-bacc that others recommended or getting a masters. The few years extra that it would take are insignificant in the long run.

You also may try talking with a pre-med advisor to help you make decisions moving forward. They can give you a better idea of what you're looking at in terms of what classes to take, what volunteer work to do, and where to apply. HTH.
 
for a public med school id say it would be possible to get in. A private medical school would probably be less sympathetic. But whatever, you cant change the past, so just make the best of your future.
 
Why wouldn't you mention your untreated mental illness? This is a huge obstacle to overcome and many schools are interested in knowing what you've had to overcome to get to the point of applying for med school. I think if you show a significant improvement after beginning treatment you should definitely mention this in your PS or in an interview. Bipolar disorder is not simply "adversity" or "personal problems" it can suck the life out of you and make it very difficult to live in the fairly regimented way that is necessary to do well in school.
 
Hey there--

One thing that struck out here was your use of "self-imposed." I'm totally guilty of constantly setting goals for myself that maybe aren't that reasonable and then not meeting them, or barely meeting, and killing myself in the process--and also feeling like crap along the way.

First of all, take off that self-imposed deadline. I know you want it that way, but it seems like it's adding a lot of extra pressure that you don't need right now. So just stop, breathe, and take your time.

You mentioned your interest in psychotherapy, neurology, etc, issues, right--but you don't have great ECs. Well--could you find a few MDs or PhDs working in these areas, set up some informational interviews, pick their brains, find out if they have good ideas about places you could volunteer or intern? Are you a reader? Pick up some books on neurology, psychotherapy, mental illness, etc. (books for the general reader, science-y books)--the more you educate yourself, the more you'll get ideas of places or areas where you could volunteer and better hone your interests. And are these other clubs you're part of important to you? If not, drop them! Do what interests you, not what you think you should do. And even if you are interested in all of them, it seems like they're eating up your time and you're not excelling in the ways you want to.

You mentioned you're weak in math--I hate to say, but brush up on those math skills and take some math classes. This math crap will bite you in the butt again and again with some of the pre-reqs you still should take. And often these science classes are tough enough w/out having to teach yourself the math.

Applying to med school is a process and while you shouldn't be overly strategic about it (please don't volunteer at an orphanage even if you hate kids but think it will look good on your app), you need to make a plan. Don't rush it, don't hope it all falls together. Your work needs to be slow, straight, and steady. So sit down, look at your grades, look at what you still need to take, figure out your goals academically and professionally (EC opps) and--most of all--be really honest with yourself about your limits and where you can push yourself and where you simply can't. really understand where you went wrong in those previous science classes so that you won't make those same mistakes again. And realize that you can't have everything--i.e., you may not be able to meet that self-imposed deadline and still excell in your classes, get that GPA





brightness said:
I thank the scientists as well.
Actually, this whole thing is a big part of the reason why I want to go to medical school in the first place. As I mentioned, my field of study prior to considering medicine was psychology. I've always been interested in helping people live better lives and in psychopathology. I refused to take medicine for the longest time, thinking that therapy would eventually put me back on my feet, but when things really got messed up, I decided to give the medicine a try, and it changed my life. That lead me to be increasingly curious about medicine and the way that the brain functions, and to feel like my understanding of mental illness just couldn't be complete without an understanding of the nuerological mechanisms. Also, I felt like my clinical practice wouldn't be complete if I couldn't help people become better with medicine, if they needed it.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
can you be a doctor with a mental illness?
 
well, a severe mental illness that interfered with the doctors work seems counterproductive. Am I wrong?
 
BIGNE said:
well, a severe mental illness that interfered with the doctors work seems counterproductive. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Of course a severe untreated mental illness could impact your competency as a doctor, but thats not what you asked.
 
Drogba said:
Of course a severe untreated mental illness could impact your competency as a doctor, but thats not what you asked.
Click to expand...

ok, then what defines severe?
 
BIGNE said:
ok, then what defines severe?
Click to expand...

I think you would agree, this depends on the context of the specific situation and illness. If you are sincerely interested in this topic you might want to check out some laws governing mental health rights and non-discrimination. You could also look at med school's "technical standards" that you have to meet to enroll. These are readily available on all institutional websites.
 
Drogba said:
I think you would agree, this depends on the context of the specific situation and illness. If you are sincerely interested in this topic you might want to check out some laws governing mental health rights and non-discrimination. You could also look at med school's "technical standards" that you have to meet to enroll. These are readily available on all institutional websites.
Click to expand...

i agree with you, no need to get defensive. 🙂
 
There are some issues that surround working with the lives of others while managing a mental illness. For nurses at least- I've thought extensively about doing nursing or maybe being a PA, which I think many potential pre-meds do-you have to sort of 'register' that you have a mental illness. As a physician I know you don't have to do this. Its certainly an issue, but with management bipolar disorder can be an incredibly well controlled disease.
 
Thank you for this advice. I believe it is very sound and that this self imposed deadline way not be the best way to reach my goal.


1edyfirel said:
Hey there--

One thing that struck out here was your use of "self-imposed." I'm totally guilty of constantly setting goals for myself that maybe aren't that reasonable and then not meeting them, or barely meeting, and killing myself in the process--and also feeling like crap along the way.

First of all, take off that self-imposed deadline. I know you want it that way, but it seems like it's adding a lot of extra pressure that you don't need right now. So just stop, breathe, and take your time.

You mentioned your interest in psychotherapy, neurology, etc, issues, right--but you don't have great ECs. Well--could you find a few MDs or PhDs working in these areas, set up some informational interviews, pick their brains, find out if they have good ideas about places you could volunteer or intern? Are you a reader? Pick up some books on neurology, psychotherapy, mental illness, etc. (books for the general reader, science-y books)--the more you educate yourself, the more you'll get ideas of places or areas where you could volunteer and better hone your interests. And are these other clubs you're part of important to you? If not, drop them! Do what interests you, not what you think you should do. And even if you are interested in all of them, it seems like they're eating up your time and you're not excelling in the ways you want to.

You mentioned you're weak in math--I hate to say, but brush up on those math skills and take some math classes. This math crap will bite you in the butt again and again with some of the pre-reqs you still should take. And often these science classes are tough enough w/out having to teach yourself the math.

Applying to med school is a process and while you shouldn't be overly strategic about it (please don't volunteer at an orphanage even if you hate kids but think it will look good on your app), you need to make a plan. Don't rush it, don't hope it all falls together. Your work needs to be slow, straight, and steady. So sit down, look at your grades, look at what you still need to take, figure out your goals academically and professionally (EC opps) and--most of all--be really honest with yourself about your limits and where you can push yourself and where you simply can't. really understand where you went wrong in those previous science classes so that you won't make those same mistakes again. And realize that you can't have everything--i.e., you may not be able to meet that self-imposed deadline and still excell in your classes, get that GPA up, and find good ECs. Good luck. 😀
Click to expand...
 
brightness said:
There are some issues that surround working with the lives of others while managing a mental illness. For nurses at least- I've thought extensively about doing nursing or maybe being a PA, which I think many potential pre-meds do-you have to sort of 'register' that you have a mental illness. As a physician I know you don't have to do this. Its certainly an issue, but with management bipolar disorder can be an incredibly well controlled disease.
Click to expand...

I think on the aamc primary they have a disabilities section
 
brightness said:
There are some issues that surround working with the lives of others while managing a mental illness. For nurses at least- I've thought extensively about doing nursing or maybe being a PA, which I think many potential pre-meds do-you have to sort of 'register' that you have a mental illness. As a physician I know you don't have to do this. Its certainly an issue, but with management bipolar disorder can be an incredibly well controlled disease.
Click to expand...


you will not get into medical school.
 
Honestly--and this is in no way meant as an insult--you seem indescisive about what you want to do, going from medicine to psychology to nusing to slp to psych again and back to medicine. I'm a fairly indecisive person myself, so I'm really not trying to insult you. However, you need to figure out what you really want to do. Keep in mind, that if you go into medicine, you will spend years upon years studying and doing things that are in no way related to psychiatry. Heck, you may find you don't even like psychiatry in practice and wind up in a whole other speciality entirely. Also, keep in mind that med. school and practice (and psych. phd programs, for that matter) havw a sky-high stress level (physical, mental, sleep deprivation, etc.). Will this affect your bipolar disorder in unmanagable ways? In no way am I saying that bipolar people can't be exccellent doctors, but it is something you should think about--much as I have to consider the physical trquirements of career fields in relation to my physical disability. Do I wish I could anything? Yeah. Can I? Probably not.

Good luck!:luck:
 
I am in a similar situation and also have an F from my first semester, a W from third semester, 2 Cs, 4 C+s and 3.25 overall. I am doing really well this year and hoping to bring my gpa from 3.25 to 3.4+. I got a 36M on my mcat 9 V 13 PS 14 BS first time taking. Do I have a shot at MD schools?
 
you know, sometimes they come back after getting an email notification LOL... it was out of curiosity...I like bumping up old posts 😆
 
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