Type of Psych Residencies for Academic-Minded Applicants

[Shimmmy]

---

Members do not see this ad.

If an applicant is interested in teaching (associate professor, attending, etc.), should they restrict their app-list to university programs (as opposed to affiliate, community) only?

Or are the opportunities the same for graduates from community and affiliate programs?

 

[Monocles]

If you want to do academic after graduation, then your best odds are to graduate from an academic residency.

Of course the true question is if your feelings are still the same after... I too once dreamed of a long career in academic psychiatry, now I am applying for all jobs EXCEPT academic ones, ha

 

[Bartelby]

I would second going to an academic residency if you want to get clinician-educator track jobs. It will give you an advantage in hiring and teaching experience. If you end up in a community program, though, academic teaching roles would still remain open to you.

 

[Lexanoob]

Definitely second Bartleby, especially the later point! As a resident and medical student, I’ve had a ton of great teachers who ended up doing really well in academics after having had careers in private practice or trained at community-based programs. I think it shows how there’s a lot of flexibility in psychiatry! If you’re interested in being a program director or other leadership roles in education (outside of just title changes in academia), I’m not sure if coming from an academic residency would be more helpful, although in the other hand, there are also (obviously) great and dedicated educators at community based programs too, and I know a handful of programs where their educators didn’t come out from academic programs as well.

I guess one other thing to consider is if a program will have medical students that you can work with as a resident, if that is something that you’re interested in the future.

 

[Shimmmy]

Sounds like restricting my app to just university programs isn't necessary, but will help. Thanks for the feedback.

I too once dreamed of a long career in academic psychiatry, now I am applying for all jobs EXCEPT academic ones, ha

Can I ask why?

...there are also (obviously) great and dedicated educators at community based programs too, and I know a handful of programs where their educators didn’t come out from academic programs as well.

I guess one other thing to consider is if a program will have medical students that you can work with as a resident, if that is something that you’re interested in the future.

Are there any programs you recommend consisting of dedicated educators of that nature? That last point I hadn't even considered! I need more filters to narrow this list down and that's easily the best one.

 

[NickNaylor]

Honestly I don't think it really matters from the perspective of hiring. I do think being in an "academic" program and being used to supervising and teaching others - e.g., medical students and lower level residents - can give you some initially valuable teaching experience, but at least at my institution I don't think doing your training program would limit your ability to be hired as a clinician-educator. Frankly the "educator" part of the position is highly dependent on the setting that you work in and whether or not trainees rotate at your setting. At my institution, it is very easy to do essentially no meaningful educational activity if you don't want to depending on the setting that you work in. The "clinician" part of the position is by far the greater focus.

 

[Shimmmy]

Frankly the "educator" part of the position is highly dependent on the setting that you work in and whether or not trainees rotate at your setting.

I see, so there is no hard and fast rule that choosing a university program over another will fast track you through the clinicical-educator route.

 

[Monocles]

Can I ask why?

You really have to find a passion for teaching. And that passion has to be greater than the marginal cost of whatever income you lose by taking an academic job. (ex: do you LOVE teaching enough to give up 100-200k a year to do it?)

 

[Shimmmy]

...passion has to be greater than the marginal value of whatever income you lose by taking an academic job. (ex: do you LOVE teaching enough to give up 100-200k a year to do it?)

!!! Does this figure relate all clinician educator jobs, including attendings?

 

[SmallBird]

I have a very different perspective on this. I agree that it is possible to get clinical educator jobs without having gone to an academically focused residency. But if I compare and contrast my experience as a clinician educator to that of my colleagues, it is extremely clear that the connections formed, skills learned, and experience accumulated at an academic residency has been critical to achieving success as a clinician educator. I've worked places where there supposedly weren't many teaching opportunities and then after a few months they were vibrant teaching environments. This is because I could meet with program directors and describe a set of experiences and skills which would bring additional value to their trainees. And then all the other attending were surprised that suddenly I was teaching all the time. So I'm not saying that there aren't multiple pathways but having gone to a very academically oriented residency was the way I was able to enjoy success as a clinician educator.

 

[tr]

I think it's really common for academic programs to fill their new clinician-educator positions with graduates from their own residency and fellowship programs. There's not a match program for faculty and cold-calling for a faculty position from an outside institution with no connections is going to be really hit or miss. Your best shot at a clinician-educator appointment is going to be at the program you graduate from.

 

[Shimmmy]

...having gone to a very academically oriented residency was the way I was able to enjoy success as a clinician educator.

Any specific programs you might recommend? Every program on their website/open houses say they are "academic focused," making it difficult to discern.

Your best shot at a clinician-educator appointment is going to be at the program you graduate from.

Very helpful insight, thank you.

 

[NickNaylor]

I see, so there is no hard and fast rule that choosing a university program over another will fast track you through the clinicical-educator route.

That has been my experience though I also very strongly agree with @tr's post above. At least at our institutions, our two inpatient units are staffed exclusively by graduates from the residency program, and both of our consult services are heavily staffed by faculty that have either been at the institution for some time or graduated from the residency/fellowship. These services, at least in our residency program, are the ones with the greatest teaching responsibilities by far.

I don't think it mattered that they graduated from the local academic program. Instead, they had an advantage of being aware of what jobs were available or would be available when they graduated, they knew the important folks within the department, and they were familiar with the institutional culture. All of this makes it very easy to get these positions if you're interested. I don't think our department would discriminate against someone who graduated from a community program that was interested in one of these positions, but it's difficult to be aware of the availablity of these positions to begin with, and if someone that the department is at least familiar with is interested in that same position, there would have to be a pretty compelling reason to fill the position with someone who is relatively unknown instead.