U Michigan vs Vanderbilt vs U Maryland vs Northwestern

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Pre Med Hopeful 456

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Hey guys! I have been fortunate this cycle to have these wonderful acceptances, and looking for any insights/advice people might have! I am interested in pursuing Optho/ENT/Plastics/Derm/Rads & working with underserved populations, but I know my interests can change, and I am open to that! I am not against pursuing academics. However, I envision working in a private practice setting.

I will preface that I am a URM (Black) and value the diversity of the patient population and being in an accepting area of who I am (despite knowing negative sentiments exist everywhere at some level). If it helps, I am from the east coast, so most of these schools would be away from my support network. I also will be paying for school myself/without my family's financial support.

Edit: I am also pending a decision from Harvard and Wash U, but I don't think I will get in as I thought those interviews weren't my best. I will update the list if this changes and I am proven wrong.

U Mich: Cost is unknown at the moment

Pros:
1.) 1 year pre-clinical
2.) Very strong home programs in fields I am interested in
3.) U Mich has the strongest community regarding how close/tight nit they present themselves as. I don't know if this is true, but I wrote this in my post-interview notes.
4.) Flex quizzing, which allows for flexibility in when to take assessments
5.) Awesome graduate departments should I choose to pick up an MPH
6.) Prestige

Cons:
1.) It's cold lol (Maryland born and raised, so this would be a change of pace).
2.) Large class size of ~170 students; I prefer a smaller class size of ~100 and having professors know my name
3.) Most people come from very prestigious places; kind of intimidating as I came from a state school
4.) AOA + Graded Clerkships (in comparison to Vandy)
5.) Graded on a curve in regards to clinical year
6.) Concerns with patient diversity in Ann arbor and diversity of the class

Vanderbilt: Cost is Unknown at the moment

Pros:
1.) Ideal class size of ~100 people (I think it's 94, to be exact)
2.) 1 year preclinical
3.) Prestige
4.) P/F Clerkships. I consider this a huge +++ ,but I am not entirely sure how much it matters/worth using to decide where to go.
5.) Student-run free clinic is very robust
6.) School places a huge emphasis on student wellness
7.) Built in 3-6 months of dedicated research time, which is nice since it allows one to focus on it.
8.) Really strong home programs as well.
9.) Hot Chicken! (Kind of a joke haha)

Cons:
1.) Not exactly leaping out of my chair with the idea of going to Tennessee/down south as a Black man. Also concerned about patient diversity, but this is more so a product of me never visiting here.
2.) Diversity of the class.
3.) Worst interview day vibes, according to my notes, but that is more because it was my first one, and I feel like I bombed it.
4.) Most people come from very prestigious places; kind of intimidating as I came from a state school

UMSOM: Unsure about Cost at the moment

Pros:
1.) Merit Scholarship for 20k a year (80k total), and this is my state school so it looks to be the cheapest option as of now
2.) Close to home and support group, so that is a big +.
3.) Diverse class/larger URM representation in comparison to other schools on the list
4.) Strong school academically (perhaps not as much as the other schools on this list but still very much up there).
5.) Many of my friends are going to matriculate here. At the same time, I know I can make friends (hopefully lmfao) at these other schools, so not a deciding factor.

Cons:
1.) Baltimore. Not entirely thrilled about the area. Additionally, I prefer the idea of leaving the state to see and live in a different part of the country rather than being in Maryland longer (I love the state, but I don't know if I want to stay here for an additional four years).
2.) Tiered grading in preclinical years (so not P/F preclinical).
3.) AOA + Graded Clerkships (in comparison to Vandy)
4.) Prestige in respect to the other options. With P/F Step 1 I wonder if going to a more prestigious program would help me reach my goals a bit easier.

Northwestern: COA is 300k (based on financial aid package)

Pros:
1.) Merit Scholarship. Currently negotiating to see if I can have COA further reduced.
2.) Longer preclinical potentially allows for more time to breathe compared to a one-year preclinical (from what I have heard).
3.) Prestige
4.) Location and by extension, patient population in Chicago. The huge underserved patient population and the chance to work with them aligns with my goals.
5.) Early and longitudinal clinical experience with ECMH.
6.) Best interview day vibes.
7.) Would not need a car since I could rely on public transportation.
8.) Large URM representation in the class (according to a student I talked to) matters a lot to me and helps establish community.
9.) Strong Home Programs!

Cons:
1.) Most people come from very prestigious places; kind of intimidating as I came from a state school
2.) AOA + Graded Clerkships (in comparison to Vandy)
3.) Expensive!
4.) Longer pre-clinical means less time on the back end for Sub-I's, away rotations and etc... which could be important
5.) Large class size of about 170. My preference is closer to 100.

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I’d have to agree with @canarystones, however Vanderbilt is full P/F with no AOA (as per students), compared to the other two which have grades/AOA. HUGE like you said

Regardless, can’t go wrong between Michigan/Northwestern/Vanderbilt

Congrats on an awesome cycle!
 
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Unless you get into Harvard, I'd go with whichever ends up being cheapest out of Vandy, UMich, and Northwestern
 
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I’d have to agree with @canarystones, however Vanderbilt is full P/F with no AOA (as per students), compared to the other two which have grades/AOA. HUGE like you said

Regardless, can’t go wrong between Michigan/Northwestern/Vanderbilt

Congrats on an awesome cycle!
Thank you! Full P/F and no AOA at Vanderbilt is amazing and one of the criteria that’s really making it hard for me to completely lean towards NW. Makes it tough to choose haha.
 
all great options, just know northwestern is known (from discussions with current med students) to match up other schools pretty closely up to full tuition at max. Also, more merit scholarships are still going to be released this month, so you likely have more to come. One thing about the big school size is that you break up into small "colleges" of around 20 people with an MD advisor, so I feel efforts definitely are made to make a bigger school small!
 
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Congrats man! Awesome choices you have there.
Don't count out the other schools just yet. I got in where I felt I did worst, so anything can happen.
Of the schools you've gotten in so far, I would lean towards Vanderbilt, as pass/fail clinical is a big deal. More camaraderie with classmates. More time for research/community service/exercise/enjoying life. I believe Harvard and WashU are p/f clinical as well.
 
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Congrats man! Awesome choices you have there.
Don't count out the other schools just yet. I got in where I felt I did worst, so anything can happen.
Of the schools you've gotten in so far, I would lean towards Vanderbilt, as pass/fail clinical is a big deal. More camaraderie with classmates. More time for research/community service/exercise/enjoying life. I believe Harvard and WashU are p/f clinical as well.
Thanks for the advice and I fully agree that P/F clerkships have huge benefits! Def makes this a tough choice!
 
These are amazing choices congratulations!!! I think the P/F clerkships are huge but the COA is also huge. I would try to negotiate with Northwestern and Vandy if I were you. Nashville has struck me as progressive compared to other cities in the region and I don't think it will be as bad as being in the "deep south" as a URM but I would talk to other POC students about what they feel. The cold is killer in the midwest tho so I personally would want to be at Vandy but I'm from Texas and am bitter having lived on the east coast for 7 years. I think visit all 3 places and get the vibes from the schools and see if Vandy just had a fluke interview day.

Maryland is tough because its all graded and that is not ideal in my opinion. I can see sucking it up and taking graded clerkships but doing graded pre-clerkship is really tough.
 
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Some new info to add: R from Harvard, waiting on Wash U, and a very generous scholarship of 140 k from Michigan making it cheaper than Vandy and NU as of now.
 
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Would definitely wait to see what WashU has to offer. I hear they're very generous with financial aid.
 
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Yeah Michigan is definitely the move for now imo. WashU gives great financial aid, so if you get off the waitlist it's entirely possible that they'll offer you as much as or more than Michigan. In the meantime, decide how much you like Michigan compared to WashU. You may decide that even if WashU accepts you and matches Michigan, you still want to go to Michigan.

I personally don't believe there are any resources WashU (or any other school, tbh) can offer you that Michigan can't. However, no AOA + pass/fail clerkships at WashU vs AOA + graded clerkships at Michicgan will make a difference wrt stress and happiness. Keep us updated, congrats on the success, and good luck!
 
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I guess a question on my mind/I’m trying to get some insight on is how much is P/F clerkships and no AOA worth. I keep hearing that it’s super impactful.

Ofc I know this is a personal call but out of my current options Vandy will be more than U Mich most likely (and I believe Vandy doesn’t match merit scholarships). But is there a certain price where paying extra for Vandy’s curriculum is no longer worth it?
 
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I guess a question on my mind/I’m trying to get some insight on is how much is P/F clerkships and no AOA worth. I keep hearing that it’s super impactful.

Ofc I know this is a personal call but out of my current options Vandy will be more than U Mich most likely (and I believe Vandy doesn’t match merit scholarships). But is there a certain price where paying extra for Vandy’s curriculum is no longer worth it?
This is my two cents — given you are interested in competitive specialties, no AOA and P/F clerkships will be a HUGE dealbreaker. Do you work well in high-stress, competitive environments, or does that fuel you more? Personally, it is justified to pay extra because it is an added boost to not just being compared to your classmates when applying for residency comes around and dealing with gunners, but your well-being during your toughest year of med school (clerkships).

The price threshold is up to you to decide and depends on what you care about in addition to grading methods - (I know you mentioned diversity, underserved populations, etc.) take those into consideration as well. Where would you rather live? If you lean towards one school, don’t let price be the determining factor, especially if prestige is almost equal. I do think once you reach maybe ~70-100k for CoA over four years it should be a priority, but that’s just me.

Keep negotiating FA packages with all your other schools as well, your situation may look very different even a month from now!
 
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If P/F clerkships are an option and they do not affect their match list, I too would strongly value this.
 
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P/F clerkships are seriously worth an additional 140k in loans? That's surprising but meaningful coming from MD students tbh.
 
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Idk about TN as a whole, but Nashville has plenty of diversity. Black/Hispanic population is quite large. You may not see a lot of diversity at VUMC since a lot of their patients have private insurance; but Meharry is just right down the street and Vandy students have the option to rotate through Nashville General if they want to. Plus, Meharry students(who are majority black) rotate at Vandy all the time, so I wouldn't worry about not fitting in due to race if that is your concern. Good luck and congrats on your acceptances!
 
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I guess a question on my mind/I’m trying to get some insight on is how much is P/F clerkships and no AOA worth. I keep hearing that it’s super impactful.

Ofc I know this is a personal call but out of my current options Vandy will be more than U Mich most likely (and I believe Vandy doesn’t match merit scholarships). But is there a certain price where paying extra for Vandy’s curriculum is no longer worth it?
As somebody at a school with no AOA and P/F clerkships, I personally think it's amazing. I was able to go into clerkships with much less stress. You want to perform well, but it's amazing knowing that I don't have to brown nose for a super high grade and just need to pass.

Wrt the second question, that's something you'll have to decide. I'm personally very debt averse, so in your case I'd easily choose Michigan even with the extra stress added unless Vandy comes through with a good package.
 
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This is my two cents — given you are interested in competitive specialties, no AOA and P/F clerkships will be a HUGE dealbreaker.
Hard disagree here. Schools don't drop AOA and go P/F for clerkships unless they have the ability to still get students where they wanna be for residency. Vandy students go where they want...same with every other school that dropped AOA and went full P/F
 
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P/F clerkships are seriously worth an additional 140k in loans? That's surprising but meaningful coming from MD students tbh.
As somebody at one of those schools, absolutely not imo. Medicine will be stressful regardless. Having less stress is great, but an addition $140k in loans is much more stressful *to me* haha
 
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Idk about TN as a whole, but Nashville has plenty of diversity. Black/Hispanic population is quite large. You may not see a lot of diversity at VUMC since a lot of their patients have private insurance; but Meharry is just right down the street and Vandy students have the option to rotate through Nashville General if they want to. Plus, Meharry students(who are majority black) rotate at Vandy all the time, so I wouldn't worry about not fitting in due to race if that is your concern. Good luck and congrats on your acceptances!
Tennessee is basically 3 states. West TN is Mississippi. East TN is Appalachia. Middle TN is a mixture, with additional influences from Northern Alabama. East TN is extremely white, West TN is like 40% Black, and Nashville/Memphis are racially diverse with large populations of minoritized people. Nashville is definitely the most ethnically diverse city in the state, though. ~30% Black, ~11% Hispanic/Latino, ~4% Asian. It will be a majority minority city by 2030.
 
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As somebody at one of those schools, absolutely not imo. Medicine will be stressful regardless. Having less stress is great, but an addition $140k in loans is much more stressful *to me* haha
140k would be out of the picture for me too. I don't think no AOA and P/F would justify paying that much more. That's why I said it depends on what you care about & why I mentioned my personal threshold would be far lower.

@ssf20000 I'm not sure if you read the above but I don't think OP has received an offer from Vanderbilt yet. From what I know according to one student there currently as well as their website, Vanderbilt is one of those institutions that is also extremely generous with institutional aid and merit scholarships. Their average indebtedness is on par with most top schools (Michigan is as well), so the odds are likely that your tuition difference will end up being much lower than 140k. That's why I think IF that is the case, your decision should be based less on cost differences, but rather what you like about each of the schools, where you see yourself being, and where you will be able to succeed better. Prestige, match, etc. is a nonfactor at that point.
 
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140k would be out of the picture for me too. I don't think no AOA and P/F would justify paying that much more. That's why I said it depends on what you care about & why I mentioned my personal threshold would be far lower.

@ssf20000 I'm not sure if you read the above but I don't think OP has received an offer from Vanderbilt yet. From what I know according to one student there currently as well as their website, Vanderbilt is one of those institutions that is also extremely generous with institutional aid and merit scholarships. Their average indebtedness is on par with most top schools (Michigan is as well), so the odds are likely that your tuition difference will end up being much lower than 140k. That's why I think IF that is the case, your decision should be based less on cost differences, but rather what you like about each of the schools, where you see yourself being, and where you will be able to succeed better. Prestige, match, etc. is a nonfactor at that point.
Yup that’s correct in terms of not having received a FA package from Vanderbilt yet. So much of my questions have been more hypothetical in nature due to not having a complete picture of what the COA of each institution will be. I seriously appreciate the advice everyone and will continue to keep y’all updated as I learn more.
 
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Hard disagree here. Schools don't drop AOA and go P/F for clerkships unless they have the ability to still get students where they wanna be for residency. Vandy students go where they want...same with every other school that dropped AOA and went full P/F
@I'mInDer! You may have misunderstood me, I guess I wasn't exactly clear so my fault! When I said it was a "huge dealbreaker" I meant that it would be extremely helpful to NOT have AOA and graded clinicals -- dealbreaker in the sense that OP will be less stressed, in less competition, in less of a need to bring brownies/cookies/donuts to clerkships cough cough. Yes, you're absolutely correct -- there is a reason why schools like Yale, Harvard have P/F clinicals because their reputation is still great enough to match their students wherever they want to. Similar with Vanderbilt.

Sorry OP if I wasn't clear!!
 
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@I'mInDer! You may have misunderstood me, I guess I wasn't exactly clear so my fault! When I said it was a "huge dealbreaker" I meant that it would be extremely helpful to NOT have AOA and graded clinicals -- dealbreaker in the sense that OP will be less stressed, in less competition, in less of a need to bring brownies/cookies/donuts to clerkships cough cough. Yes, you're absolutely correct -- there is a reason why schools like Yale, Harvard have P/F clinicals because their reputation is still great enough to match their students wherever they want to. Similar with Vanderbilt.

Sorry OP if I wasn't clear!!
No worries I understood what you meant and thanks for the clarification.
 
140k would be out of the picture for me too. I don't think no AOA and P/F would justify paying that much more. That's why I said it depends on what you care about & why I mentioned my personal threshold would be far lower.

@ssf20000 I'm not sure if you read the above but I don't think OP has received an offer from Vanderbilt yet. From what I know according to one student there currently as well as their website, Vanderbilt is one of those institutions that is also extremely generous with institutional aid and merit scholarships. Their average indebtedness is on par with most top schools (Michigan is as well), so the odds are likely that your tuition difference will end up being much lower than 140k. That's why I think IF that is the case, your decision should be based less on cost differences, but rather what you like about each of the schools, where you see yourself being, and where you will be able to succeed better. Prestige, match, etc. is a nonfactor at that point.
Not disagreeing here, was disagreeing with you saying no AOA and P/F clerkships is a huge deal-breaker for competitive specialties. All the schools that dropped AOA and have P/F clerkships still match students into extremely competitive specialties at a higher rate than most schools.
 
@I'mInDer! You may have misunderstood me, I guess I wasn't exactly clear so my fault! When I said it was a "huge dealbreaker" I meant that it would be extremely helpful to NOT have AOA and graded clinicals -- dealbreaker in the sense that OP will be less stressed, in less competition, in less of a need to bring brownies/cookies/donuts to clerkships cough cough. Yes, you're absolutely correct -- there is a reason why schools like Yale, Harvard have P/F clinicals because their reputation is still great enough to match their students wherever they want to. Similar with Vanderbilt.

Sorry OP if I wasn't clear!!
Ohhhhhh I see. Yeah your wording was pretty confusing there lol, yeah I completely agree.
 
Regarding Michigan (where I went to Med school), Ann Arbor is a diverse community and a liberal bastion in the Midwest, so take that unknown out of your equation.
 
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The main lifestyle difference between Michigan and every other school on your list is that it isn’t in a big city. It’s a quintessential college town. But Detroit isn’t far away.
 
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Bumping thread here with more info. COA at Vandy is 400k (need based aid package left a lot to be desired), NU partially matched my U Mich scholarship bringing their COA to 250 k and U Mich gave me really generous need on top of merit bringing the price down to 180 k. After visiting Vandy has been my favorite followed by NU then Michigan, but Vandys just asking for too much. Would love to hear thoughts.
 
Bumping thread here with more info. COA at Vandy is 400k (need based aid package left a lot to be desired), NU partially matched my U Mich scholarship bringing their COA to 250 k and U Mich gave me really generous need on top of merit bringing the price down to 180 k. After visiting Vandy has been my favorite followed by NU then Michigan, but Vandys just asking for too much. Would love to hear thoughts.
I’d go with UMich. 70k is a pretty hefty difference imo
 
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I'd personally take vandy out. P/f clerkships seem super nice but that’s a ridiculous price differential. It’d be between northwestern and umich to me. IMO 70k difference isn’t huge across 4 years and with a physicians salary, but that might just be my view. Would probably just depend on which city you prefer, they both have great medical reputation and good hospital systems.
 
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Agreeing with the above I'd cross Vanderbilt out of the equation. With regards to NU/UMich I would just pick based on whether you're more of a large city person or college town person. 70k is a lot of money, but I wouldn't let it decide for you necessarily. If you have an inclination to think you'd work in private practice someday in a competitive specialty it could potentially not matter at all. In order of what you have listed before I would say to focus on the opportunities to do what you're interested in (specific research interests, service opps for underserved populations), patient diversity, and whether you have a diverse community that surrounds you in the classroom & hospital. If UMich offers these things to a similar degree that NU does, go to UMich. If there is a noticeable difference, I would still consider Northwestern.

What type of setting have you lived at prior to medical school? Urban/suburban/rural? As someone who has been in all for extended periods of time, there's a pretty large contrast between them so it definitely IS an adjustment/culture shock moving to a big city like Chicago if you've lived in the suburbs, but you would also experience the same if you lived in the city & moved to Michigan being a more suburban/rural-ish college town. I would personally weigh familiarity as a huge bonus, I've always been a big proponent of that.
 
Agreeing with the above I'd cross Vanderbilt out of the equation. With regards to NU/UMich I would just pick based on whether you're more of a large city person or college town person. 70k is a lot of money, but I wouldn't let it decide for you necessarily. If you have an inclination to think you'd work in private practice someday in a competitive specialty it could potentially not matter at all. In order of what you have listed before I would say to focus on the opportunities to do what you're interested in (specific research interests, service opps for underserved populations), patient diversity, and whether you have a diverse community that surrounds you in the classroom & hospital. If UMich offers these things to a similar degree that NU does, go to UMich. If there is a noticeable difference, I would still consider Northwestern.

What type of setting have you lived at prior to medical school? Urban/suburban/rural? As someone who has been in all for extended periods of time, there's a pretty large contrast between them so it definitely IS an adjustment/culture shock moving to a big city like Chicago if you've lived in the suburbs, but you would also experience the same if you lived in the city & moved to Michigan being a more suburban/rural-ish college town. I would personally weigh familiarity as a huge bonus, I've always been a big proponent of that.
Those are all great points! So for school I lived in a college town but growing up I have lived in an east coast city so I do have some familiarity with both areas. I think I do lean towards preferring a city and will 100% keep your insights in mind.

And I do agree that 70 k (while a lot) is not absolutely terrible to pay back.
 
Another thing to remember is that the "debt" that you have includes all of Cost of Attendance and are estimates depend on your cost of living. If you live below the COL that they estimated, you don't actually have that debt.
 
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Yeah I'd share the same sentiment as the above posters- Michigan or NW seems like a good balance of prestige and money. Vandy does have a lot of upside though and Nashville is a diverse city.

Feel like you could cut out Maryland.
 
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WashU too as I don't believe they give money if you're coming off the waitlist, and at full cost you have better options.
Small correction, WashU does give money to folks off the waitlist. I actually know people who got really good financial aid after getting of the waitlist (partially bc WashU gives really good need-based aid and evaluate it separately from merit aid).
 
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Small correction, WashU does give money to folks off the waitlist. I actually know people who got really good financial aid after getting of the waitlist (partially bc WashU gives really good need-based aid and evaluate it separately from merit aid).
Oh cool. Is that common among other schools in the top 20 or is that WashU specific?
 
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That's WashU specific and probably would apply to NYU as well. WashU is very generous with scholarships.
Other schools will often do it too, esp when it comes to need-based aid. I have friends at at other T20 schools who got off the waitlist and got really generous financial aid.
 
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Bumping. Out of nowhere Michigan came through with a full tuition scholarship. So combined with my need based aid would be about 369k worth of aid. Looks like I will Go Blue!
 
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