U of Michigan

[cowboy1020]

Noticed that last year UM only matched 20 out of its 24 residency spots. Does anyone know what happened there? Didn't see this until after my interview. I thought it was a great program but am I missing something?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[gasthrowaway]

Doesnt mean theyre a bad program. UF and dartmouth both had empty spots last year. Sometimes a program just doesnt quite interview enough people. I can promise you those spots were grabbed in about 0.000000001 seconds during the scramble. UM is a great program.

 

[koan]

How does that work during the scramble? Are people just frantically calling places with open spots? Do these programs still exercise selectivity or is it pretty much first-come, first-served?

 

[Libertas]

there is a second match now, the SOAP

 

[Mman]

Noticed that last year UM only matched 20 out of its 24 residency spots. Does anyone know what happened there? Didn't see this until after my interview. I thought it was a great program but am I missing something?

No idea. I know in the past they would keep some spots unfilled to give to applicants outside the match.

 

[Ronin786]

I think this was discussed after last year's match and the consensus was they probably submitted a short ROL so that they could grab folks from other specialties in the SOAP.

 

[GoDuke83]

Cowboy 2010 --- I had heard something similar when interviewing there. Agree with gasthrowaway, I had heard the issue was just related to the need for more interview dates, since most applicants are now applying to a larger number of programs (thus smaller percentage of interviewees actually matching to any specific program).

I heard UofM added a couple extra interview dates this year (as most programs have done recently). My impression was UofM was a fantastic program... definitely top tier.

 

[Libertas]

I think this was discussed after last year's match and the consensus was they probably submitted a short ROL so that they could grab folks from other specialties in the SOAP.

Does anybody understand why a program would want to do that? I feel like, if I were a program director, I'd rather take applicants who were passionate about the field. Not disgruntled neurosurgery applicants who failed to match (whether or not they may have had good board scores and grades.)

 

[nimbus]

Does anybody understand why a program would want to do that? I feel like, if I were a program director, I'd rather take applicants who were passionate about the field. Not disgruntled neurosurgery applicants who failed to match (whether or not they may have had good board scores and grades.)

Have to disagree. I know many people who did not take the "direct" path into anesthesia and they are fantastic doctors who love the field. People change their minds for all kinds of reasons, not just because they are "disgruntled". My old residency director used to say, " the department of anesthesia gets some of our best residents from the department of surgery." And it was true.

By not ranking so-so applicants, the program may be able to get better talent outside the match or in the secondary match, both specialty changers and scramblers from ultra competitive specialties.

 

[Mman]

Does anybody understand why a program would want to do that? I feel like, if I were a program director, I'd rather take applicants who were passionate about the field. Not disgruntled neurosurgery applicants who failed to match (whether or not they may have had good board scores and grades.)

They aren't taking disgruntled applicants that failed to match. They are taking 2nd, 3rd, 4th year residents from other specialties that want to switch into anesthesia. They have historically had a higher % of residents that switched from another specialty than most other programs. Often times those are very strong candidates that look for spots outside the match.

 

[Libertas]

I could see saving spots for 2nd, 3rd, 4th year etc residents outside the match who have change of heart. As I recall, a couple years ago they changed the rules of the match so a program has to put all or none of their slots into the match process. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that the applicants in the SOAP process are much more often last minute scramblers who failed to match their desired specialty, not well reasoned applicants making a mid residency change of heart? Ha.

 

[Maverikk]

Yep, they can't fill spots outside the match anymore, this was true last year when they didn't fill. They have to go through SOAP, which a 3rd or 4th year resident from another specialty is probably avoiding, as are all other candidates. I imagine it was a short ROL or people just didn't rank them high.

 

[Ronin786]

Yep, they can't fill spots outside the match anymore, this was true last year when they didn't fill. They have to go through SOAP, which a 3rd or 4th year resident from another specialty is probably avoiding, as are all other candidates. I imagine it was a short ROL or people just didn't rank them high.

Did they fill their spots through the SOAP? Because if they didn't they could approach those 2nd/3rd//4th year residents. 

 

[scudrunner]

It was a fluke. Don't over-analyze it. Very unlikely to happen again. Outstanding program.

 

[Philosiraptor]

Based on the PD's general attitude; I'm not surprised. Sometimes "top notch" programs get cocky and too exclusive for their own good. They may have ranked too few applicants expecting to fill their class and ended up loosing too many to other very good programs. No doubt its a fantastic program, but again, really not surprised based on what I saw.

 

[scudrunner]

New PD this year.

 

[Maverikk]

Did they fill their spots through the SOAP? Because if they didn't they could approach those 2nd/3rd//4th year residents. 

My understanding is that all spots have to go through the match. So if you have a second year spot it has to match with someone who's already completed an intern year (unless they want to redo intern year). This is what I was told by a surgery intern at one of my interviews last year, they're listed in the match as R2 or something like that (there's another designation as well for people who've already completed a full residency I believe, didn't really pay much attention to this since it didn't apply to me). So that person could match in R2 and not have to redo intern year or he could match normally and redo intern year. Alternatively they could match at an advanced program but have to take a year off before starting

 

[UMichGas]

I am a CA-2 at the University of Michigan. I think there are several reasons for not matching those 4 spots last year including transitioning to a new PD, and being a little over-selective. Everyone was a little with a new PD coming on board this year but she has transitioned in extremely well. There have already been several positive changes in this past year. I am most excited about the educational program taking a more structured format.

I think the strengths of this training program are:
- Amazing faculty
- Some of them world renowned (Mashour, Brummett, Kheterpal, Polley, Ramachandran, Healy)
- Extremely involved and friendly chairman, Dr. Tremper (I see him almost everyday at morning conference); He is also extremely supportive of residents.
- 55 hours/wk work schedule during CA-1-CA-3; 57 hours/wk during intern year
- Solid training experience where you will definitely get all of your numbers within this one large institution without any doubt
- You will gain confidence and a strong skillset
- Structured educational curriculum with morning conference, M&M, journal club, tutorials, and simulations
- Program that supports research (I went to two national conferences this year to present case reports -- 6 days each fully paid)
- If you want to get involved with research you will have many opportunities. Check out December version of Anesthesiology dedicated to UofM research contribution to Anesthesia. Also note that UofM has 3 faculty members who are now editors for Anesthesiology.
- A sense of teamwork amongst residents; we have each other's backs as cheezy as that sounds
- Food money when you stay for 12 hours or longer if it includes 7pm
- Most weekends off after you're a CA-1
- Excellent fellowship opportunities, and UofM tends to take their own; I had a Brigham residency grad tell me how insanely hard it was for him to match Cardiac at UofM because they take their own so heavily. Out of this year's CA-3s, 7 wanted pain; 5 are going to UofM, 1 to Hopkins, and 1 to MD Anderson
- UofM Anesthesia is pretty well respected nationally; When I meet people at conferences they always say how good a program UofM is.

I think the only downside of this program is that it is not kush. And if thats what you are looking for you probably shouldn't look here. This is a place where you work hard, with some extremely bright people, you learn a lot, and you do some good by the end of the day.

I am extremely satisfied with my training so far. Please post any program related questions you might have and I would be happy to answer them.

 

[thethethe]

I am a CA-2 at the University of Michigan. I think there are several reasons for not matching those 4 spots last year including transitioning to a new PD, and being a little over-selective. Everyone was a little with a new PD coming on board this year but she has transitioned in extremely well. There have already been several positive changes in this past year. I am most excited about the educational program taking a more structured format.

I think the strengths of this training program are:
- Amazing faculty
- Some of them world renowned (Mashour, Brummett, Kheterpal, Polley, Ramachandran, Healy)
- Extremely involved and friendly chairman, Dr. Tremper (I see him almost everyday at morning conference); He is also extremely supportive of residents.
- 55 hours/wk work schedule during CA-1-CA-3; 57 hours/wk during intern year
- Solid training experience where you will definitely get all of your numbers within this one large institution without any doubt
- You will gain confidence and a strong skillset
- Structured educational curriculum with morning conference, M&M, journal club, tutorials, and simulations
- Program that supports research (I went to two national conferences this year to present case reports -- 6 days each fully paid)
- If you want to get involved with research you will have many opportunities. Check out December version of Anesthesiology dedicated to UofM research contribution to Anesthesia. Also note that UofM has 3 faculty members who are now editors for Anesthesiology.
- A sense of teamwork amongst residents; we have each other's backs as cheezy as that sounds
- Food money when you stay for 12 hours or longer if it includes 7pm
- Most weekends off after you're a CA-1
- Excellent fellowship opportunities, and UofM tends to take their own; I had a Brigham residency grad tell me how insanely hard it was for him to match Cardiac at UofM because they take their own so heavily. Out of this year's CA-3s, 7 wanted pain; 5 are going to UofM, 1 to Hopkins, and 1 to MD Anderson
- UofM Anesthesia is pretty well respected nationally; When I meet people at conferences they always say how good a program UofM is.

I think the only downside of this program is that it is not kush. And if thats what you are looking for you probably shouldn't look here. This is a place where you work hard, with some extremely bright people, you learn a lot, and you do some good by the end of the day.

I am extremely satisfied with my training so far. Please post any program related questions you might have and I would be happy to answer them.

Why would you say it is not cush even though you work around 55 hours a week?

 

[UMichGas]

Why would you say it is not cush even though you work around 55 hours a week?

There are some programs where you work fewer hours or get paid extra for staying past 3pm or 5pm etc.

Additionally the case complexity or patient acuity can hypothetically be more demanding.

 

[kkinase]

Having just come back from my UMich interview, I was pleasantly surprised how much I liked the program. Never been to Ann Arbor before but as soon as I got there, I had a hit of nostalgia of my undergrad days back in NY; definitely love the college town feel. My interview day must have had at least 30 applicants being interviewed but talking with the residents and touring the place, I got a good vibe. The chair is also just downright hilarious in my opinion. With the solid reputation, training, faculty and friendly atmosphere I'm surprised they had problems filling spots in the past thought.

 

[generalhospital32]

I think it was arrogance; that being said this was an AMAZING program! will rank #1 or #2 for SURE

 

[deleted9493]

The details of the program when I interviewed there 6 years ago were impressive. I cannot say that I had very endearing interviews with faculty...such responses as "we have no weaknesses" and ripping into other programs were thematic of the day. I may or may not have put their t-shirt in the trash on the way out and didn't rank them--it was obvious that I didn't belong there.

That said, I have friends who trained there who are clinically excellent and of sound minds. 🙂

 

[gasthrowaway]

55 hours/wk work schedule during CA-1-CA-3; 57 hours/wk during intern year

I think the only downside of this program is that it is not kush.

does not compute... I mean really??? 57 freaking hours during intern year and your saying it isnt kush? Even the programs I went to that I'd consider super kush had tough intern years before it eased up in CA1-3

 

[UMichGas]

When the program surveyed prior applicants who were ranked highly but did not match at UMich, the number one reason people did not choose UMich came down to location. As I mentioned before I think the reason there were unfilled spots were due to uncertainty with a new program director coming on board as well as not interviewing and ranking enough candidates to offset the location handicap. This year more applicants were interviewed to offset this.

It is kind of surprising to me that people are getting a vibe that UMich is an arrogant program. I definitely don't feel that the program is impersonable or arrogant as a resident here. I would be happy to talk with anyone one on one via PM or the phone about any of these kinds of concerns if you are interested.

With regards to me saying its not a cush program, I agree that the hours are reasonable. People have a tendency to complain when they are in the ORs past 3pm. As a CA-1 you put all of those hours in M-F so you can be at the hospital until pretty late some days (5-8pm). Even though you have the weekend to recover it can be exhausting. The intern year has reputably been something that people were intimidated by. I posted the hours of intern year to demonstrate that it's really not that bad. I actually transferred into the program after completing an intern year in a different program and my intern year was 80 hours/week. So from my point of view I don't know what people are complaining about. There is definitely a sense though that you won't be happy here if you are looking for a cush program. You have to have an attitude of working hard during the clearly reasonable number of hours that you are actually at the hospital.

I definitely believe that this is an amazing program with awesome opportunities. Please let me know if you have any specific questions about the program.

 

[Wiscoblue]

Who is the new program director?

 

[scudrunner]

Norah Naughton is the PD.