U Penn vs. Hopkins

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Gas_Man_MD

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Quick question. Top 2 choices are U Penn and Hopkins. Really looking for best overall program. Penn has new chairman famous in field of gas, but heard not so friendly sometimes. Hopkins also good name, but recent issues of interim chairman. Looking for good name to get great job when done. Any ideas.
 
You are being considered (and are considering) Hopkins and Penn and you are worried about which one's reputation will get you a job?
You should decide where you want to live, what kind of perks each offers, and what your gut says. When I inquired, it seemed that graduates from both programs were getting good job offers and fellowship opportunitites. I didn't particularly care for Penn for a number of reasons and I wasn't impressed with the Drew Carey program director that everyone thinks walks on water.
 
In terms of total anesthesia training, Hopkins is in a different tier than Penn. Only UCSF and MGH are also in this league. People may try to argue, but these are the big three in academic anesthesia; and there are only three.

Can't say Hopkins will get you a better job for sure though. It probably won't. So then you may not care at all about the above statement and should just go to the place you like most.
 
DISCLOSURE:
I'm going to PENN next year so there's my bias.

In my experiences rotating through 3 different academic departments (Penn included) and 17 interviews is that the level of academia in Anesthesia is nowhere near another large field such as Internal Medicine or Cardiology.

There just aren't as many people doing research. Whether it is due to the nature of the field or size of departments, who knows.

When is the last time you've heard of prospective, randomized, controlled, double blind, multicenter trials involving 10000+ people on long term effects of anesthesia? Talk to any cardiologist and they'll start spewing numbers from VALIANT or ISIS-2 (multinational studies), the likes of which I cannot see in our field.

With that said, you can compare the money that is being spent on basic science + clinical outcomes research in the major centers across the nation (PENN, UCSF, MGH, Hopkins, Duke...and many others) you'll see, they are similar. I would tend to agree with the previous poster about secondary concerns (living situation, opportunities, package).

For me, Penn had the facilities, solid medical program, stronger undergraduate campus, more favorable city (living like a king as a resident), and the new chair (personality aside) - focusing on outcomes research (actually recruited from Hopkins), as well as a $20 round trip Chinatown bus that can get you to NYC to participate in world cultrue (altho Philla can hold its own).

Those were some of my personal tastes. I don't think there is enough difference in "academia" or job prospects between the two places. Plus I just don't get what one does around Baltimore.

With regards to work hours, I understand that both programs will push 65-75 hors/wk, but the way I see it - that is still much below most other fields (Medicine, Surgery, Pediatrics).

Good luck choosing. PM me with any more questions.
 
Thanks for all the input. Still trying to decide and leaning more towards Penn. Heard a lot about Hopkins cutting spots, making things a little tougher. Also heard amongst the residents about the change in chairman position and transition they are going through. Dont get me wrong, Hopkins is a great place.
Penn has new chairman, famous in field of gas. On another interview at UVa, they even stopped in middle of their conference to acknowledge Fleisher. Penn is also a larger program with a lot of contacts. More likely to work hard. "Our motto is we we work harder but learn more." Not too sure how I like that motto. Just kidding. I do appreciate all the input. Thanks everyone. 😎
 
I don't think you will go wrong with either decision (as far as training and reputation go). As a resident at Hopkins, I can tell you life is really good. With the confirmation of the new chair last year (he's been here for over 10 years as faculty) the quality of life has only gotten better. We still have great cases but work less than last year with great perks. I agree that Baltimore isn't the greatest city but sometimes you can't have everything. As for Penn's chair... we really don't miss him.
 
They're both great programs, so you won't go wrong either way. Residency is hard because you work so much (even though our hours are less than some other fields). So you should go to the city that you would rather live in because your time off is so precious. Residency is also a great time to try a new place so if one offers more of a change for you then that is probably a good thing. I do think that your gut feeling at this point is the most important factor to pay attention to. When I made my rank list, I really got carried away by some of the names on my list and it partially clouded my judgment. If I had wound up at those places I think it would have been fine, but I'm really glad I went with my gut!!
 
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