UCDublin vs Ohio State vs Glasgow

[thesunshinefuturedogtor]

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Hello!

I have recently narrowed down my vet school acceptances predominantly to these two options (unless something changes like scholarship offers). I am still considering Edinburgh, RVC and Wisconsin but overall my decision is mainly between Ohio State and UCDublin as they would be my cheapest options and Glasgow (even though it s a 5 year program, would only be about 15k more total overall).


From my calculations over 4 years, the cost of Ohio State (with the scholarship I received) and UCDublin will be almost exactly the same. Within 10k difference of each other. Glasgow would be right behind them.

Now, it is just the time to decide and the decision is keeping me up at night. Everyone in my life seems to have a lot of opinions about what I should go to school. Some of my undergrad professors say "go abroad, it is a once in a lifetime opportunity" some of my family says "go to Ohio State, it is the closest to home and a top ranked program in the world'. Overall. I have toured them all and LOVED them all. They all have their advantages really and here are some of my opinions:

Ohio State:

• Day 1 competent vet (uk/eu schools not as much)
• One of the best ranked programs worldwide and US
• Nice/new facilities
• Huge caseload hospital
• Semi-affordable housing and city
• Surrounded by really motivated people

UCDublin:

• Vibrant city and people
• Also better work life balance than US schools
• LOVE that the vet school is ON the UCDublin campus with so much to do (even a movie theater on campus)
• Walkable lifestyle
• Opportunities to travel and see the world
• Very expensive housing
• Mandatory EMS for species I am not as interested in

Glasgow:

• Vibrant city
• Vibrant people
• Better work life balance with 5 year program
• Better cost of housing
• Removed from the center of Glasgow
• Lots of beautiful nature nearby
• Great curriculum
• Opportunities to travel and see the world
• Mandatory EMS for species I am not as interested in
• Graduate 1 year later than a 4 yr program

I know no one can make this decision for me, but if there is anyone out there also struggling with similar decisions I would love to chat. Or if anyone has any additional insights on any of these it would be super helpful. Let me know if there is something important I am missing or if some of my info is incorrect. Thank you all!

 

[_rae_]

Not including cost of living, unless you got financial aid you haven't discussed here, tOSU is your cheapest school by a long shot.

Ohio: first year $44k OOS + $37.5k for second and third + $55.6k for fourth year = $175k for all four years. I know they say you need $15k/semester in living expenses, but if you have roommates you super don't. Saint Paul looks to be about equal to Ohio in terms of rent and with my spouse (or in your case, a roommate), I've managed to only take out about $7-$8k each semester beyond tuition. If you're so inclined, you can also work while in school in the US. Depending on your visa, sometimes you're not allowed to work abroad.

UCDub: E41.6k = $45k x 4 = $180k AND Dublin no longer locks in the tuition and exchange rate, so this could change, especially with tariffs going into place. Also need to factor in visa costs (up to $5k), needing to replace a good chunk of your stuff you can't bring with you (car, furniture, books, etc). I am also unsure if they charge an increase in tuition for rotations, but if they do, this doesn't include that.

Glasgow: £36-ish = $47k x 5 = $235k with the same caveats as Dublin.

If it were me, I would pick tOSU, no questions asked. The other thing I would consider is the NAVLE pass rate. Glasgow is on probationary accreditation because 2021/2022 pass was 67%, and 2022/2023 pass was 62%. UCDub was 67% in 2022/2023 and 77% 2023/2024. tOSU was 84% for 2023/2024. Between costs and stats, even though the draw to go abroad is strong and I struggled with the same conundrum last year, you should stay stateside (in my opinion).

 

[thesunshinefuturedogtor]

Not including cost of living, unless you got financial aid you haven't discussed here, tOSU is your cheapest school by a long shot.

Ohio: first year $44k OOS + $37.5k for second and third + $55.6k for fourth year = $175k for all four years. I know they say you need $15k/semester in living expenses, but if you have roommates you super don't. Saint Paul looks to be about equal to Ohio in terms of rent and with my spouse (or in your case, a roommate), I've managed to only take out about $7-$8k each semester beyond tuition. If you're so inclined, you can also work while in school in the US. Depending on your visa, sometimes you're not allowed to work abroad.

UCDub: E41.6k = $45k x 4 = $180k AND Dublin no longer locks in the tuition and exchange rate, so this could change, especially with tariffs going into place. Also need to factor in visa costs (up to $5k), needing to replace a good chunk of your stuff you can't bring with you (car, furniture, books, etc). I am also unsure if they charge an increase in tuition for rotations, but if they do, this doesn't include that.

Glasgow: £36-ish = $47k x 5 = $235k with the same caveats as Dublin.

If it were me, I would pick tOSU, no questions asked. The other thing I would consider is the NAVLE pass rate. Glasgow is on probationary accreditation because 2021/2022 pass was 67%, and 2022/2023 pass was 62%. UCDub was 67% in 2022/2023 and 77% 2023/2024. tOSU was 84% for 2023/2024. Between costs and stats, even though the draw to go abroad is strong and I struggled with the same conundrum last year, you should stay stateside (in my opinion).

Hi! thank you for your response.

I think for calculation purposes for Ohio State there is a small error. I would be looking at Tuition total: $211,676 for Ohio State. The 1st year "out of state surcharge" is on top of the traditional tuition rate I believe. But I did receive a 10k scholarship so, my total tuition for all four years at Ohio State would be $201,676.

UCDublin's total tuition would be about $187,221.

When I factored in cost of living and researched it extensively, after all 4 years they would come out about the same with only $10k difference of each other maximum (because of the cost of living in Dublin being a little bit higher).

Looking at tuition alone UCDublin would be cheaper by $14,455 over all 4 years. Plus, for UCDublin it is also worth considering I will be staying on campus which includes a fully furnished apartment so no other necessary expenses that way and public transportation is what I would be using mainly, no car or gas costs. Also, the Ireland student visa is $135 as of 2025.


But I REALLY appreciate your input and the NAVLE pass rate like you mentioned is huge. Do these numbers change your mind at all or do you still think Ohio State would be my best option?.

 

[JaynaAli]

If your ultimate goal is to practice in the states and costs are relatively similar, I’d go to the stateside school. I mean I’m as concerned about the future of our country as anyone else, but the fact is, there are differences in vet med between the US and abroad. Those differences aren’t insurmountable, but as I’ve been reading pathology cases from the UK in addition to US and Canada over the last few years, I’ve come to realize there’s lots more differences in drug names, abbreviations and in case workup and available diagnostics than I initially realized. That’s not to say someone from the UK can’t be a competent vet in the US or vice versa and I’m sure someone can adapt relatively quickly, but it’s probably simplest to just learn in the environment and vernacular you’re going to practice in if all other things are relatively similar.

 

[_rae_]

Hi! thank you for your response.

I think for calculation purposes for Ohio State there is a small error. I would be looking at Tuition total: $211,676 for Ohio State. The 1st year "out of state surcharge" is on top of the traditional tuition rate I believe. But I did receive a 10k scholarship so, my total tuition for all four years at Ohio State would be $201,676.

I double checked Ohio and I believe you are correct, which is a bummer.

Looking at tuition alone UCDublin would be cheaper by $14,455 over all 4 years. Plus, for UCDublin it is also worth considering I will be staying on campus which includes a fully furnished apartment so no other necessary expenses that way and public transportation is what I would be using mainly, no car or gas costs. Also, the Ireland student visa is $135 as of 2025.

I have also heard murmurings that Ireland is dealing with a housing crisis, and international students are finding it difficult to find places to live. Yes, you said you'll be living on campus, but I do worry that COL is going up further before it comes down. And again, Dublin increases rates each year as of 2019 I believe? And if the exchange rate tanks, you're screwed. You could end up paying quite a bit more depending on how that goes.

But I REALLY appreciate your input and the NAVLE pass rate like you mentioned is huge. Do these numbers change your mind at all or do you still think Ohio State would be my best option?.

Ultimately, no. These numbers don't change my opinion. UCDub's NAVLE rate is atrocious. The NAVLE is $760, VetPrep for 90 days is $549. If you don't pass, you're on the hook for another $1300 without being able to work as a doctor. If you want to specialize, that can seriously screw up your ability to stay on cycle with match. And even if you don't want to specialize, you're looking at 6+ months post graduation working as a tech at best, right around when your loans are going to kick in. I think Jayne also makes a good point. Given the option to stay stateside with a much better NAVLE score, I would.

 

[mw1356]

I also got into UCDublin and tOSU this cycle and will most likely be committing to tOSU. Like Jayna mentioned, there are differences between vet med in the US and UK, both with naming conventions and the diseases/parasites that exist in each place. I figure that learning the info I need to pass the NAVLE and practice in the states will be easier at a school in the states. The housing crisis in Dublin also concerns me a bit (and after dorming for all of college, I really want my own apartment lol). That said, if you did want to go abroad, I would pick Dublin over Glasgow. A 5-year program may only cost a little more in tuition, but it's also an extra year that loans will accrue interest and an extra year of not working/making money. Best of luck with your decision!

 

[thesunshinefuturedogtor]

I double checked Ohio and I believe you are correct, which is a bummer.

I have also heard murmurings that Ireland is dealing with a housing crisis, and international students are finding it difficult to find places to live. Yes, you said you'll be living on campus, but I do worry that COL is going up further before it comes down. And again, Dublin increases rates each year as of 2019 I believe? And if the exchange rate tanks, you're screwed. You could end up paying quite a bit more depending on how that goes.

Ultimately, no. These numbers don't change my opinion. UCDub's NAVLE rate is atrocious. The NAVLE is $760, VetPrep for 90 days is $549. If you don't pass, you're on the hook for another $1300 without being able to work as a doctor. If you want to specialize, that can seriously screw up your ability to stay on cycle with match. And even if you don't want to specialize, you're looking at 6+ months post graduation working as a tech at best, right around when your loans are going to kick in. I think Jayne also makes a good point. Given the option to stay stateside with a much better NAVLE score, I would.

I agree a lot with what you are saying but I wouldn't say Dublin's most recent 77% NAVLE pass rate is "atrocious" by any means. There are a lot of schools with similar rates. Over the past 5 years their average is 80.6% pass rate. It is only a few points behind tOSU's 84% pass rate.

Dublin is definitely going through a major housing crisis no doubt about it but I really love the living on campus lifestyle even for all 4 years so that isn't really a concern for me.

The exchange rate fluctuating is a concern. From research I determined that most projections suggest that the EUR/USD rate could fluctuate within the range of 1.0960 to 1.1790 during 2025.However, these forecasts are speculative and subject to change based on evolving economic conditions.

I appreciate all your help and words of advice. Before this post I was leaning slightly towards UCDublin and now I am just kind of lost. I appreciate all your comments and help a ton even if it wasn't fully what I was wanting to hear, I need perspectives on all sides of this before making my decisions. Now I am even more conflicted but if anyone has anything else to add it is appreciated.

 

[dvminmyfuture]

I agree a lot with what you are saying but I wouldn't say Dublin's most recent 77% NAVLE pass rate is "atrocious" by any means. There are a lot of schools with similar rates. Over the past 5 years their average is 80.6% pass rate. It is only a few points behind tOSU's 84% pass rate.

Dublin is definitely going through a major housing crisis no doubt about it but I really love the living on campus lifestyle even for all 4 years so that isn't really a concern for me.

The exchange rate fluctuating is a concern. From research I determined that most projections suggest that the EUR/USD rate could fluctuate within the range of 1.0960 to 1.1790 during 2025.However, these forecasts are speculative and subject to change based on evolving economic conditions.

I appreciate all your help and words of advice. Before this post I was leaning slightly towards UCDublin and now I am just kind of lost. I appreciate all your comments and help a ton even if it wasn't fully what I was wanting to hear, I need perspectives on all sides of this before making my decisions. Now I am even more conflicted but if anyone has anything else to add it is appreciated.

I am wrestling with this exact decision tOSU or Dublin. On this point about NAVLE pass rates, I asked the UC Dublin Dean this question at a recent in person accepted students event in Silver Spring MD (and I also asked this question in my interview in NYC) and received the following answer: It used to be that our in country students took the NAVLE along with our North American students just as practice. We no longer allow that because as you point out it is impacting our NAVLE rate. I walked away from both of those comments believing they were genuine. Seemingly more genuine than the comment that was made by tOSU at the accepted students day program I attended. But honestly, I'm hanging on every word/comment and in the end, they are both good schools (with tOSU ranking higher.) A mentor (a professor at UPENN) has several surgical residents from UCDublin - but just told me when I asked him that he'd choose tOSU. I have slightly different costs than you do with my very extensive spreadsheet but on paper Dublin does appear slightly cheaper (exchange rates are a concern.) I am hardly sleeping but when I am in a non-stress moment I seem to be concentrating on the vibe and Dublin being a better city than Columbus. Plus, how nice would it be to not be in the US during these next four years? Overanalyzing and overworrying over here...........

 

[supershorty]

I agree a lot with what you are saying but I wouldn't say Dublin's most recent 77% NAVLE pass rate is "atrocious" by any means. There are a lot of schools with similar rates. Over the past 5 years their average is 80.6% pass rate. It is only a few points behind tOSU's 84% pass rate.

I'll be honest, I find all of these numbers somewhat concerning. NAVLE pass rates should be in the 90s. The dip at some programs (including tOSU, to be clear - I don't want to seem biased) is reason for concern. If schools are preparing their students correctly with the baseline knowledge to be successful, there really is no reason for their pass rates to be that low. I'd personally have a degree of hesitation about any program that was consistently under 90% pass rate.

If you want to practice stateside and the costs are comparable, I'd recommend the stateside school for the reasons already discussed in posts prior to mine.

 

[thesunshinefuturedogtor]

I'll be honest, I find all of these numbers somewhat concerning. NAVLE pass rates should be in the 90s. The dip at some programs (including tOSU, to be clear - I don't want to seem biased) is reason for concern. If schools are preparing their students correctly with the baseline knowledge to be successful, there really is no reason for their pass rates to be that low. I'd personally have a degree of hesitation about any program that was consistently under 90% pass rate.

If you want to practice stateside and the costs are comparable, I'd recommend the stateside school for the reasons already discussed in posts prior to mine.

Agreed. The schools I was accepted to in the US include, University of Wisconsin, University of Minnesota, or Ohio State and the tOSU rates were a little bit concerning.

 

[supershorty]

@battie @SkiOtter @pp9 @WildZoo @dyachei

It's come to my attention that OP is hoping to get more DVM thoughts prior to the decision deadline on the 15th - just wanted to bump the thread up in case any of you want to weigh in 🙂

 

[battie]

I am a practicing ER doctor in the Denver Metro Area, graduated in 2021 as an OOS, though I got a ton of financial help from a life insurance policy I inherited during school. My loans are *still* 1400/month on the ten year plan, and I'm trying to change to IBR. Just so you can have some perspective on where I'm coming from.

1. I *always* recommend the cheapest option for 2 reasons.
- 1. You don't know what's going to happen. I failed out of vet school first year and almost didn't make it through in second year after my family death. I graduated by the skin of my teeth; rank 134/134. I am a doctor by the grace of my support system, my self hope, and luck. If these schools have 15%+ of their classes failing NAVLE, how many students are failing out? If you fail out, your stuck with the debt. That's bad.
- 2. You never know what's going to happen *after graduation*. Look at what just happened with student loans. I'm on forebarence thankfully now. But I now absolutely cannot afford my student loans. And I only had 2.5 years of tuition that I took loans out for. I had a ton of financial luck. So many people I know were not this lucky. A classmate just lost her home and everything in a fire. She owes 350k+ in loans. What's she going to do? Who knows. Look up what vets had to do in 2007-2009. There were two doctors for every position open at the time.

I was raised, "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst."

2. NAVLE rates. The standard is 80%. The standard *should* be 90%+. I think the standard being 80% is atrocious in of itself. No school should be okay with their rates being sub-90%. There is absolutely 0 reason literally dozens of students should be failing boards at any school. I also feel this way about attrition rates; but because attrition rates aren't a part of accreditation, they don't have to report them. I am absolutely appalled by the NAVLE rates.

3. International education. The risks are huge right now because our international relationships are shaky and the world economy is shaky. Unbeknownst to the majority of Americans, many foreign countries are absolutely protectionist of their own populations; it is incredibly difficult to become a citizens of many countries and I can absolutely see international studies come to a halt as the recession sets in. In that regard, you could completely start your degree and then be screwed in the middle. These countries will absolutely prioritize their own citizens over you; and they should

4. All of the subjective points (vibrant city as an example) can apply to anywhere. They're purely subjective, and therefore the prioritization needs to be firm on what you're willing to deal with for 4yrs vs the rest of your life.

 

[SkiOtter]

I fully agree with what Jayna, Shorty, and Bats have said already.

 

[dyachei]

Go with the cheapest option. In the US right now there have been major changes to loan repayment plans and you may always be in debt if you don't go with the cheapest option. Also don't forget to factor in flight costs to visit family if going internationally. It's no joke.

 

[pp9]

4. All of the subjective points (vibrant city as an example) can apply to anywhere. They're purely subjective, and therefore the prioritization needs to be firm on what you're willing to deal with for 4yrs vs the rest of your life.

+1 to going to the cheapest option. I also wanted to add in that I'm of the camp that vet school is not the time to pick a locale purely for the 'adventure' aspect. There's usually not enough free time to make it worthwhile.

Ohio State:

• Day 1 competent vet (uk/eu schools not as much)
• One of the best ranked programs worldwide and US
• Nice/new facilities
• Huge caseload hospital
• Semi-affordable housing and city
• Surrounded by really motivated people

UCDublin:

• Vibrant city and people
• Also better work life balance than US schools
• LOVE that the vet school is ON the UCDublin campus with so much to do (even a movie theater on campus)
• Walkable lifestyle
• Opportunities to travel and see the world
• Very expensive housing
• Mandatory EMS for species I am not as interested in

Glasgow:

• Vibrant city
• Vibrant people
• Better work life balance with 5 year program
• Better cost of housing
• Removed from the center of Glasgow
• Lots of beautiful nature nearby
• Great curriculum
• Opportunities to travel and see the world
• Mandatory EMS for species I am not as interested in
• Graduate 1 year later than a 4 yr program

I talked about it in another thread somewhere, but idk why the idea of a UK school giving you more travel opportunities is a thing? It seems like a misconception to me. You can do a lot of traveling in any school if you play your cards right. Just depends on what you are wanting to do (mission trips, externships abroad, summer programs, etc) and how much money you want to put towards it. I had several classmates who did quite a lot of travel throughout school, some of it wasn't even related to the school/they found external opportunities.

And just to play devil's advocate - we all have species we aren't as interested in, but the fact that the UK schools put you through a more extensive 'mixed animal' training isn't a bad thing and if anything, can be helpful NAVLE-wise. I'd be curious to hear more about why you think those schools aren't graduating competent vets compared to tOSU in light of that? Are you basing that off of their lower NAVLE rates, or is there something I don't know?

I would argue that US grads aren't day-1 competent (one person's opinion). You don't graduate and magically rock at being a vet. There's only so much learning and training that can be done in four years, considering 2y or less of that is your actual on-the-floor clinical training. Hugeeeee learning curve and adjustment once you're actually out. That's why it's critically important to have access to good mentorship at your first job.

 

[5Hs5Ts]

I am about to graduate out of a UK school as an international student and I would not recommend any UK schools to North American applicants if your goal is to return to North America to practice (requiring that you pass the NAVLE).

While UK schools claim to be and should be interested in supporting students in passing the NAVLE to maintain their avma accreditation, my school does not behave that way. I find that the bar is set far too low from year 1 of my program to enable/push students to succeed in the NAVLE. North American licensure (ie the NAVLE itself) is a marathon and your training for that should begin in first year, through rigorous examination and tons of learning opportunities. You CAN get that experience in a UK setting if you set yourself up for it but nobody is pushing you to do so or holding you to account. It's very easy for students to fall behind the curve here and nobody will tell them that they need to work harder or more efficiently. The NAVLE is a lengthy exam and my school expects students to suddenly just pick themselves up by their bootstraps a few months before the exam and learn material they have not really been accountable for prior to final year.

 

[pp9]

I am about to graduate out of a UK school as an international student and I would not recommend any UK schools to North American applicants if your goal is to return to North America to practice (requiring that you pass the NAVLE).

While UK schools claim to be and should be interested in supporting students in passing the NAVLE to maintain their avma accreditation, my school does not behave that way. I find that the bar is set far too low from year 1 of my program to enable/push students to succeed in the NAVLE. North American licensure (ie the NAVLE itself) is a marathon and your training for that should begin in first year, through rigorous examination and tons of learning opportunities. You CAN get that experience in a UK setting if you set yourself up for it but nobody is pushing you to do so or holding you to account. It's very easy for students to fall behind the curve here and nobody will tell them that they need to work harder or more efficiently. The NAVLE is a lengthy exam and my school expects students to suddenly just pick themselves up by their bootstraps a few months before the exam and learn material they have not really been accountable for prior to final year.

Sorry, this is absolutely derailing this thread, but I think this is an interesting conversation to have.

I can only speak for one school with my personal experience (and obviously don't have experience at a UK school), but I don't think US schools do as much hand holding as you seem to think. I also did not think our didactic time/testing at Illinois was actually that relevant to how the NAVLE tests (honestly, it was the complete opposite). Most US students start their actual NAVLE prep within 3-5 months of their scheduled test day, and you can do the bare minimum amount of work you need to not fail out of school and still pass the NAVLE no problem with dedicated prep time a few months prior to the exam. You can go to the imaginary perfect school with a perfect curriculum and still fail the NAVLE if you don't prep yourself. Holding yourself accountable is a big part of that, and a big part of vet school in general. No one tells you to work harder in vet school - that's an expectation from day one that you either meet or don't.

Now, things might change with the dropping of pass rates at multiple schools. Why they are dropping is multifactorial and up for debate, but I personally don't think it's only because every single school affected has suddenly dropped the rigor of their curriculums and expectations of students.

Also going to argue the implication that a US school provides "tons of learning opportunities." It is incredibly easy (and getting easier) to graduate vet school with absolutely no basic surgical skills, minimal to no client communication skills, no concept of how to look up information when you need it/where to find it, etc. I have worked with 80ish rotating interns from most US vet schools at this point and feel quite strongly about that, including reflecting back on my vet school own experience and what I was ready for on day 1. For example, I graduated with one spay and one neuter under my belt. I had interns that didn't even do both surgeries, or only did half of the surgery. As we see more schools without teaching hospitals, this is probably going to be more common as the clinical curriculum is going to be less standardized.

Again, devil's advocate. Not saying OP should choose one school over the other for any reason except cost...but it's not like we don't have multiple US schools either cited for curriculum concerns or on probationary accreditation for similar reasons. You might be the first poster who is adamant that the UK schools are outright subpar? We don't have a lot of UK SDNers on here but I'd love to hear others' opinions if they're out there. Not disagreeing with you because I don't have the experience to do that, but just wondering how widespread this POV is. It seems that a lot more people are applying internationally in the last few years compared to the last 10+.

 

[battie]

Graduated 134/134 in my class. Literally by the skin of my teeth. Passed the NAVLE with a 455 doing half of Zuku prep. So arguably barely passed NAVLE as well, depending on what questions I missed and their point value (business management, anyone?).

There were things on the NAVLE that absolutely were taught and I absolutely missed. There were things on the NAVLE that would have been elective material that I absolutely missed. There were things on the NAVLE that I don't think we were taught.

On standardized tests like this, it comes down to 1) knowing how to take the test and 2) how to study for the test. And, in hindsight, I think any vet student who can do reasonably well in didactics and in clinics can pass the NAVLE by using the ICVA test list and practice tests. Zuku and vet prep are fine; just expensive for what they are cause they understand they each are on just this side of a monopoly because of the other.

If the schools and curricula were the entire problem, the NAVLE wouldn't have tanked in just the last few years.

 

[5Hs5Ts]

Sorry, this is absolutely derailing this thread, but I think this is an interesting conversation to have.

I can only speak for one school with my personal experience (and obviously don't have experience at a UK school), but I don't think US schools do as much hand holding as you seem to think. I also did not think our didactic time/testing at Illinois was actually that relevant to how the NAVLE tests (honestly, it was the complete opposite). Most US students start their actual NAVLE prep within 3-5 months of their scheduled test day, and you can do the bare minimum amount of work you need to not fail out of school and still pass the NAVLE no problem with dedicated prep time a few months prior to the exam. You can go to the imaginary perfect school with a perfect curriculum and still fail the NAVLE if you don't prep yourself. Holding yourself accountable is a big part of that, and a big part of vet school in general. No one tells you to work harder in vet school - that's an expectation from day one that you either meet or don't.

Now, things might change with the dropping of pass rates at multiple schools. Why they are dropping is multifactorial and up for debate, but I personally don't think it's only because every single school affected has suddenly dropped the rigor of their curriculums and expectations of students.

Also going to argue the implication that a US school provides "tons of learning opportunities." It is incredibly easy (and getting easier) to graduate vet school with absolutely no basic surgical skills, minimal to no client communication skills, no concept of how to look up information when you need it/where to find it, etc. I have worked with 80ish rotating interns from most US vet schools at this point and feel quite strongly about that, including reflecting back on my vet school own experience and what I was ready for on day 1. For example, I graduated with one spay and one neuter under my belt. I had interns that didn't even do both surgeries, or only did half of the surgery. As we see more schools without teaching hospitals, this is probably going to be more common as the clinical curriculum is going to be less standardized.

Again, devil's advocate. Not saying OP should choose one school over the other for any reason except cost...but it's not like we don't have multiple US schools either cited for curriculum concerns or on probationary accreditation for similar reasons. You might be the first poster who is adamant that the UK schools are outright subpar? We don't have a lot of UK SDNers on here but I'd love to hear others' opinions if they're out there. Not disagreeing with you because I don't have the experience to do that, but just wondering how widespread this POV is. It seems that a lot more people are applying internationally in the last few years compared to the last 10+.

Who's talking about anything except NAVLE performance here? UK schools train with a different goal in mind and if you want to pass the NAVLE you need to have a solid understanding of the basics from memory. You need to put in work. I'm saying the minimum expectation beginning in year 1 of UK vet school is not conducive to passing the NAVLE in my experience. This is not a commentary on how prepared one is for practice, and the NAVLE is not a barometer for preparedness. We all know that.
I've had four examinations of preclinical and clinical content in my entire four years of vet school. This is not preparation for passing a 7h multiple choice exam. Examination rigor holds students accountable but is not the same as hand holding. Examination shows students their knowledge gaps so they see a need hold themselves accountable. Students are of course ultimately responsible for passing the NAVLE. When they sit in an environment for four years that does not have that goal in mind, you can understand how some people succumb to it and others have to block it out a bit to buckle down and sit the exam.

 

[JaynaAli]

I won’t argue that going from an environment with minimal tests to taking the NAVLE seems like a challenge, but even as someone who attended a school with regular tests, the types of questions asked on NAVLE were very very different than the types of questions asked on my US vet school’s exams. And our regular exams were all less than an hour, not a giant 7 hour day with 360 questions. I’d argue that perhaps one mega test at the end of the year is more like info recall needed for NAVLE than tiny one hour tests over a short series of lectures on one specific topic, though I’ll concede that a short answer vs mc format is a big difference. But we still had to spend weeks to months preparing for NAVLE all on our own. So while a US school may be teaching to the test a little more specifically, it’s still a lot of self driven work and vet school is difficult anywhere. But you do bring valuable insight into what the European schools are like, especially when more and more people are considering studying in non-US locations.

 

[pp9]

Who's talking about anything except NAVLE performance here?

OP is? I am? NAVLE rates are being discussed but OP is specifically concerned about being a day 1 competent vet if he/she were to go to a UK school.

Who's talking about anything except NAVLE performance here? UK schools train with a different goal in mind and if you want to pass the NAVLE you need to have a solid understanding of the basics from memory. You need to put in work. I'm saying the minimum expectation beginning in year 1 of UK vet school is not conducive to passing the NAVLE in my experience. This is not a commentary on how prepared one is for practice, and the NAVLE is not a barometer for preparedness. We all know that.
I've had four examinations of preclinical and clinical content in my entire four years of vet school. This is not preparation for passing a 7h multiple choice exam. Examination rigor holds students accountable but is not the same as hand holding. Examination shows students their knowledge gaps so they see a need hold themselves accountable. Students are of course ultimately responsible for passing the NAVLE. When they sit in an environment for four years that does not have that goal in mind, you can understand how some people succumb to it and others have to block it out a bit to buckle down and sit the exam.

We are saying that you have to put in real work in the US to pass the NAVLE too. No one is checking in on you, aside from those who experience serious personal events, while you're in vet school. No one is reminding you to study and prep for tests or the NAVLE. Some schools reach out to those severely struggling academically, but even that's not a given. Although I'm sure it's unintentional, you are implying that US vet students don't have to do as much work to pass the NAVLE by default and it's simply not true.

I had 18 midterm/final exams and 2(?) cumulative year-end exams (not including OSCEs here). Our exams were primarily MC, and all were three hours long with somewhere around 150 questions. Maybe one of the most NAVLE-comparable testing structures out there in vet schools, even though we had fewer tests overall. None of those exams were sufficient prep for the NAVLE. You can take a test every single week and it won't prep you for the NAVLE. The info the NAVLE wants from you is different than what vet school tests want from you (@battie alluded to this already). I had serious knowledge gaps on all vet school exams, the definition of scraping by, and did fine on the NAVLE with VetPrep.

Also, although I understand the UK schools are AVMA accredited, which comes with NAVLE pass rate expectations, that doesn't mean they are going to switch to the NAVLE being their end-all be-all. The NAVLE is irrelevant to other countries. Sort of like any non-accredited school around the world not making the ECVFG their north star. If an international school loses AVMA accreditation, they just keep teaching, but become a bit less attractive to pre-vets in two countries.

Another train of thought: Decrease pass rates for any school are concerning, but for international schools, I would need even more context. Knowing how many students are actually sitting the NAVLE at these schools each year would be a start. Knowing how many are actually US students/fully intend to practice in the US is another thing.

When they sit in an environment for four years that does not have that goal in mind, you can understand how some people succumb to it and others have to block it out a bit to buckle down and sit the exam.

This is 100% a lack of accountability on the students' part.

With this same logic, I can blame my school for my lower performance because we only had exams every four weeks, so there wasn't as much pressure to keep up with material in between exams.