UCLA or UCSF?

[sunnymeliss]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

I was looking at the first choice dental school poll and noticed that a lot more people voted UCLA as their top choice school. What are your opinions on the two schools?

 

[dat_student]

I was looking at the first choice dental school poll and noticed that a lot more people voted UCLA as their top choice school. What are your opinions on the two schools?

Hard to say. I have received an interview invitation from both schools. This is what I know about the two schools:

UCSF
* UCSF ranks 1st among all US dental schools in research funding from the National Institutes of Health. The school has held this 1st place ranking for the past 13 years.
* UCSF School of Dentistry has created multiple centers for creativity and research: an NIH funded Comprehensive Oral Health Research Center of Discovery (one of only three centers hosted by US dental schools and the only such in California); the Center for the Health Professions; the UC San Francisco AIDS Speciment Bank; the Oral AIDS Center; the NIH-funded Oral Cancer Research Program; the Center on Oral Health Disparities; and SICCA, an international registry network dedicated to the study of Sjogren Syndrome.
* UCSF School of Dentistry possesses four distinguished professorships (each endowed at $1.9-$2.5 million) and five endowed chairs (each endowed at $400,000 - $1.5 million)
* UCSF is one of the few DAT=20+ schools
* UCSF has the second highest DAT + GPA combination in California
* UCSF is the most affordable dental school for California residents
* If you'd like to pursue MD/DDS UCSF medical school is one of the two medical schools that are ranked in the top 10 in research & primary care. UCSF medical school is also the best medical school in California.
* UCSF has 3 noble prize winners amongst its faculty
* UCSF is better known in northern California
* UCSF accepts a large proportion of underrepresented minority students and this may have lowered its overall DAT+GPA (UCSF enrolled 36% of all Hispanic dental students attending one of the five California dental schools in 2002-2003)

UCLA
* Has the highest GPA+DAT combination in California and second highest in the country
* UCLA is better known in the country (amongst dental students)
* Higher GPA/DAT means more students may be able to specialize
* UCLA is the second affordable dental school in CA
* In terms of research, findings and discoveries, UCLA is one of the top schools in the US and second best in CA

 

[drhobie7]

Hard to say. I have received an interview invitation from both schools. This is what I know about the two schools:

UCSF
* UCSF ranks 1st among all US dental schools in research funding from the National Institutes of Health. The school has held this 1st place ranking for the past 13 years.
* UCSF School of Dentistry has created multiple centers for creativity and research: an NIH funded Comprehensive Oral Health Research Center of Discovery (one of only three centers hosted by US dental schools and the only such in California); the Center for the Health Professions; the UC San Francisco AIDS Speciment Bank; the Oral AIDS Center; the NIH-funded Oral Cancer Research Program; the Center on Oral Health Disparities; and SICCA, an international registry network dedicated to the study of Sjogren Syndrome.
* UCSF School of Dentistry possesses four distinguished professorships (each endowed at $1.9-$2.5 million) and five endowed chairs (each endowed at $400,000 - $1.5 million)
* UCSF is one of the few DAT=20+ schools
* UCSF has the second highest DAT + GPA combination in California
* UCSF is the most affordable dental school for California residents
* If you'd like to pursue MD/DDS UCSF medical school is one of the two medical schools that are ranked in the top 10 in research & primary care. UCSF medical school is also the best medical school in California.
* UCSF has 3 noble prize winners amongst its faculty
* UCSF is better known in northern California
* UCSF accepts a large proportion of underrepresented minority students and this may have lowered its overall DAT+GPA (UCSF enrolled 36% of all Hispanic dental students attending one of the five California dental schools in 2002-2003)

UCLA
* Has the highest GPA+DAT combination in California and second highest in the country
* UCLA is better known in the country (amongst dental students)
* Higher GPA/DAT means more students may be able to specialize
* UCLA is the second affordable dental school in CA
* In terms of research, findings and discoveries, UCLA is one of the top schools in the US and second best in CA

I think those things won't matter to you much when you are in school. I recommend spending a couple days walking around each school, talking with professors and students. See which place makes you feel more at home.

 

[DREDAY]

I was looking at the first choice dental school poll and noticed that a lot more people voted UCLA as their top choice school. What are your opinions on the two schools?

I chose UCSF over UCLA because of several factors. I went to UCLA undergrad and volunteered many times at UCLA dental clinic and mobile clinic and was very dissapointed. Now that I attend UCSF I have learned that we have the best student run dental clinic which provides free dental services to the homeless. And this is a full clinic which provides everything from dental cleanings to fillings and crowns. UCLA's mobile dental clinic only did cleanings and sealants. These procedures are done by D3 and D4 students volunteer here on top of their everyday clinic work. D1 and D2 students also take part int he volunteer clinic.

The school has soo much research funding which opens many doors many opportunities to people that are interested in working with the world's best laboratories. These research experiences which will not only harvest your understanding dental related biology and boost your CV but it also gives you great letters of recommendation which are a huge part of your specialization application.

Also UCSF's curriculum allows you to take your dental boards after your 1st year.

UCSF has encompassed into its curriculum all aspects of dentistry: clinical, research, and didactic, at the highest levels, which made it the best institution for anyone to pursue their dental education.

 

[dat_student]

DREDAY,
Is it true that, in the country, UCSF School of Dentistry ranks second in total expenditure per student (around $140,000 per student per year)? I think I read this somewhere on UCSF fact sheet...Do you know which school (in the country) ranks 1st in total expenditure per student?

 

[ecdoesit]

Both schools are excellent public school. I had a tough time debating which school to go. I want to emphasize that ranking is meaningless unless you make the most out of the system.

research-wise, i heard 20 students out of 80 had funded research at UCSF last summer. And they have a full summer break after 1st year. UCSF really gave an effort to convince their students to do research. UCLA really gave an effort to convince their students to study. For UCLA, we have that program, but I am not sure if we have a single 1st year participated. However, we have about 10 MS or potential students in my class vs. UCSF has just started that program. In addition, we have a lot of people doing research, but they just dont have much compensation. And we have "explorer, " our school's publication on students research. UCSF has a lot of funding, but it is kinda static. UCLA on the other hand is climbing very rapidly and I believe we have the best potential to become a much stronger research instititute.

Time, the most important resource. UCLA's currriculum is perhaps the most demanding, so we have very limited time to do things(such as posting on sdn). But the students want to do many things. For me, besides doing research, taking 11 extra units for my masters, I am also the fundraising committee chair for ASDA and things here and there.

Mentality. I have some of the brightest and smartest students in my class. And everybody wants to do a good job and learn. It is not surprising why my colleagues could specialize without much problem after going thru the curriculum.

Facility-wise. UCSF is well known for their own anatomy lab with excellent exhaust system that you are not suppose to smell the chemicals. UCLA has such a big problem with their scandal with cadaver that we are under great surveilance. However, that's only for a quarter. For the first two years, the pre-clinical lab is our third home. I love my 4th floor lab. Then, the last two years, the newly renovated clinic at SF is very spacious and extremely great for students and assistants. The cubicles at ucla are very small. Also, it is not that we dont have patients, but we have so many different graduation requirement that we may not be assigned to that ideal patients. The pros is that we must perform a fixed number/set of procedures while UCSF has a more flexibility though they may not cover all the procedures.

community service: the only thing we have is venice clinic which is also student run. and we do perform different procedures on kids with a really affordable price ($15 a trip for whatever they have to do). Then we have various school visits, health fairs, mobile clinic with USC, etc.

weather. this is first on my list. i cant stand very long with that windy weather at ucsf, so ucla is my first choice.

hey, with bruins being undefeated, what else do u ask for?

Hard to say. I have received an interview invitation from both schools. This is what I know about the two schools:

UCSF
* UCSF ranks 1st among all US dental schools in research funding from the National Institutes of Health. The school has held this 1st place ranking for the past 13 years.
* UCSF School of Dentistry has created multiple centers for creativity and research: an NIH funded Comprehensive Oral Health Research Center of Discovery (one of only three centers hosted by US dental schools and the only such in California); the Center for the Health Professions; the UC San Francisco AIDS Speciment Bank; the Oral AIDS Center; the NIH-funded Oral Cancer Research Program; the Center on Oral Health Disparities; and SICCA, an international registry network dedicated to the study of Sjogren Syndrome.
* UCSF School of Dentistry possesses four distinguished professorships (each endowed at $1.9-$2.5 million) and five endowed chairs (each endowed at $400,000 - $1.5 million)
* UCSF is one of the few DAT=20+ schools
* UCSF has the second highest DAT + GPA combination in California
* UCSF is the most affordable dental school for California residents
* If you'd like to pursue MD/DDS UCSF medical school is one of the two medical schools that are ranked in the top 10 in research & primary care. UCSF medical school is also the best medical school in California.
* UCSF has 3 noble prize winners amongst its faculty
* UCSF is better known in northern California
* UCSF accepts a large proportion of underrepresented minority students and this may have lowered its overall DAT+GPA (UCSF enrolled 36% of all Hispanic dental students attending one of the five California dental schools in 2002-2003)

UCLA
* Has the highest GPA+DAT combination in California and second highest in the country
* UCLA is better known in the country (amongst dental students)
* Higher GPA/DAT means more students may be able to specialize
* UCLA is the second affordable dental school in CA
* In terms of research, findings and discoveries, UCLA is one of the top schools in the US and second best in CA

 

[drhobie7]

Also UCSF's curriculum allows you to take your dental boards after your 1st year.

A bunch of students from Class of 2008 took their boards this summer. Also, I'd be interested to see how your perspective on UCSF's clinic changes as you move from 1st year to 3rd. I'm not trying to pull that seniority crap. I just know you'll encounter problems/issues that you can't see now. But that's how it is in dental school clinics, especially a bureacratic public school. We don't yet have the luxury of working in a private practice environment.

 

[DREDAY]

The pros is that we must perform a fixed number/set of procedures while UCSF has a more flexibility though they may not cover all the procedures.

Actually UCSF changed that this year. They are now requiring all studnets a fixed set of numers of procedures to graduate.

 

[DREDAY]

DREDAY,
Is it true that, in the country, UCSF School of Dentistry ranks second in total expenditure per student (around $140,000 per student per year)? I think I read this somewhere on UCSF fact sheet...Do you know which school (in the country) ranks 1st in total expenditure per student?

I am not sure about the ranking in expenditure per student, but yeah its about $140,000 per student per year. Our dean addressed that several times during his speaches this year.

 

[dat_student]

ecdoesit,
thanks so much for the analysis. I know that if both UCSF and UCLA accept me and every other school rejects me I'll have a hard time deciding which of the two I like a little more. I am a competitive person. So, I'd very much like to study at UCLA because UCLA's avg DAT and avg GPAs are a little bit more competitive. If I go to UCSF and see that the gap still exists I am sure I'll regret my decision for the rest of my life. I love research too. So, I don't mind meeting and working with UCSF noble prize winners and other researchers/discoverers. So, if I go to UCLA I am sure I'll regret my decision for the rest of my life for a different reason. Believe it or not, 99.99% of people* in northern California think UCSF is better than UCLA. They even assume UCSF's DAT and GPAs are more competitive and we know that is not the case. [People = the dentists I shadowed, my advisor, my friends, classmates, MD students, DDS applicants who haven't looked at the stats, neighbors, Pharmacy students, nurses, doctors etc). Sometimes, I ask myself "Does it matter what everbody else thinks?" Answers: #1) yes, It does. Patients like to see dentists, that they think, are better #2) no, because when I apply for a specialty dental schools know UCLA's numbers are a bit more competitive. If I wanted to become an MD I knew, for sure, which is better for me. I am not sure which is better for the DDS program because there is no ranking. Each school has some strengths and some weaknesses. I think that I should go to both interviews and see both schools once again before making my final decision. It's not an easy decision to make.

dready,
I found the fact sheet. UCSF spends $137,403 per student per year. UCSF claims that is the second highest expenditure per student per year in the US. UCSF also claims to have more than 120,000 patient visits per year and the second highest clinical productivity (after adjusting the number based on cost-of-living and differences between different parts of the country).

*********************
"Striving to better, oft we mar what's well"
Shakespeare - King Lear

INTERVIEWS: UCLA, UCSF, UPENN, Columbia, UCONN (University of Connecticut), University of Maryland, Boston University, University of Pittsburgh, Temple University, Indiana University, Case Western Reserve University, UMKC, UMDNJ, Nova, I don't recall the rest [I won't go to all interviews]

 

[nothen2do]

You seem to care a little too much about stats and rankings. Both are great schools in those categories. I would focus more on what the student perspective is of each school, because they can really tell you if the next 4 years of your life is going to be great, or sh*&y

 

[dat_student]

You seem to care a little too much about stats and rankings. Both are great schools in those categories. I would focus more on what the student perspective is of each school, because they can really tell you if the next 4 years of your life is going to be great, or sh*&y

I agree with you. I'll go to both interviews to see which is a better option for me.

 

[DREDAY]

#2) no, because when I apply for a specialty dental schools know UCLA's numbers are a bit more competitive. If I wanted to become an MD I knew, for sure, which is better for me. I am not sure which is better for the DDS program because there is no ranking. Each school has some strengths and some weaknesses. I think that I should go to both interviews and see both schools once again before making my final decision. It's not an easy decision to make.]

IF you look at the 2004-2005 GPA stats that you can find on an SDN thread UCSF is higher than UCLA. But UCLA's DAT is higher than UCSF. In any case, statistically speaking the differences are so small that if you do a statistical analysis on the numbers, i doubt there will be a significant difference.

 

[nothen2do]

IF you look at the 2004-2005 numbers that you can find here on SDN UCSF is higher than UCLA. But UCLA's GPA is higher than UCSF. In any case, statistically speaking the differences are so small that if you do a statistical analysis on the numbers, i doubt there will be a significant difference.

you're learning a little to much statistics from sci methods 117!

 

[food4thots]

oh come on.. numbers don't tell the whole story. the interview should indicate which school fits better for you.

 

[jk5177]

And I like to add that at UCLA, you have active SDN members such as DrHobie, ECDoesit, Ziptree, and Jk5177 - so in that sense you will be well connected to SDN if you go to UCLA.

Now, this may be minor, but UCLA have a whole undegraduate institution, so there is so much diversity in terms of everything. The campus is bigger than UCSF, you see more people, and there are more student groups everywhere.

One thing I've loved about UCLA so far is the dedication of the professors. They are dedicated to make jokes (some jokes are dumb) to make us laugh. And after hours and hours of lectures, we laugh at stupid things. Stupid things that aren't even funny anymore. We laugh at things that have been laughed at already. We laugh ourselves for laughing at these stupid jokes. We laugh at professors laughs. We laught at... well basically we laugh at whatever. Wait, that's probably just me - can't speak for the rest of the class.

So, if you come to UCLA, you'll get to meet us.

Laughter helps in dental school.

 

[food4thots]

And I like to add that at UCLA, you have active SDN members such as DrHobie, ECDoesit, Ziptree, and Jk5177 - so in that sense you will be well connected to SDN if you go to UCLA.

Now, this may be minor, but UCLA have a whole undegraduate institution, so there is so much diversity in terms of everything. The campus is bigger than UCSF, you see more people, and there are more student groups everywhere.

One thing I've loved about UCLA so far is the dedication of the professors. They are dedicated to make jokes (some jokes are dumb) to make us laugh. And after hours and hours of lectures, we laugh at stupid things. Stupid things that aren't even funny anymore. We laugh at things that have been laughed at already. We laugh ourselves for laughing at these stupid jokes. We laugh at professors laughs. We laught at... well basically we laugh at whatever. Wait, that's probably just me - can't speak for the rest of the class.

So, if you come to UCLA, you'll get to meet us.

Laughter helps in dental school.

someone forgot to turn off the no2?

 

[Stanford Fencer]

The UCSF and UCLA thread comes up every year. The responses on this thread though, are more insightful than those of previous years. I think that the predents will get very valuable information from here.

Let me add another perspective that the predent may look at in the decision-making process --> specialty departments.

Should a predent come in knowing that they'd like to 'explore' certain areas, how about checking out those respective depts. at UCSF and UCLA? A valuable part of the dental school experience is getting to see various specialty areas, whether a student ultimately chooses to do a postgrad program or not.

Just something else to make the decision more difficult, but intriguing, for the predents.

 

[EyeAmCommi]

Yea I like this thread too.

But I would also like to add something. UCSF has 59 women and 21 men in it's recent entering class. Does this help you decide OP?

 

[jk5177]

Yea I like this thread too.

But I would also like to add something. UCSF has 59 women and 21 men in it's recent entering class. Does this help you decide OP?

And I like to add that I know a womyn that's going there this year who is quite hot. But then, keep in mind that UCLA has many beautiful womyn as well, not mention there is the whole undegrad population here. So if you are selecting soley based on the Womyn Population, and if you actually have time for dating, then UCLA wins hand-down. No competition. Don't even try to compare UCSF to UCLA on womyn population. (With all due respect to womyn)

*I like the Nitrous Oxide on, please don't turn it off* Can you tell from my avatar? Or maybe it is that I'm just happy as a clam at UCLA, or maybe we just haven't even had our first midterm yet. 🙁 In that case, definitely keep the NO2 on, (oh a palindrome "NO2 ON")

 

[jk5177]

UCLA has an awesom OMFS dpt.

 

[EyeAmCommi]

And I like to add that I know a woman that's going there this year who is quite hot. But then, keep in mind that UCLA has many beautiful women as well, not mention there is the whole undegrad population here.

Hehe I thought I'd just add some numbers of my own into the mix. Would you say that @ UCLA the dental school has a lot of fine women or does UCLA as a whole have a whole lotta fine women?

 

[johnstylzes]

I went to UCLA for undergrad, so I think I can help...

The ladies are extremely fine at UCLA, and the rest of Los Angeles is not so bad either. However, you will most likely catch these head turners at the undergraduate campus, specially North Campus which is a 10 minute hike. There you were see purity in the form of mini skirts and tight tank tops.

Unluckily, those who are heath science students (Dental, Med, Public Health) will be stuck at the hospital where...lets just say its much less distracting. If you came from USC, UCSB, or Duke then you are going to have a tough time here. However, if you went to Stanford or Harvard, then this is PARADISE.

I'm out before I offend my future bosses...ohh wait, I'm going into Dentistry...sorry

 

[drhobie7]

I went to UCLA for undergrad, so I think I can help...

The ladies are extremely fine at UCLA, and the rest of Los Angeles is not so bad either. However, you will most likely catch these head turners at the undergraduate campus, specially North Campus which is a 10 minute hike. There you were see purity in the form of mini skirts and tight tank tops.

Unluckily, those who are heath science students (Dental, Med, Public Health) will be stuck at the hospital where...lets just say its much less distracting. If you came from USC, UCSB, or Duke then you are going to have a tough time here. However, if you went to Stanford or Harvard, then this is PARADISE.

I'm out before I offend my future bosses...ohh wait, I'm going into Dentistry...sorry

I did undergrad at UCSB and while the girls there were unbelievably beautiful, the ones I've seen at UCLA are gorgeous as well. I was walking around main campus last week and was just amazed. Yeah, I'm going to be getting out of the health sciences area more often.

Let's not forget that LA has the best looking women in the US.

But I don't want to make this all about the women. That's only a very large part of the pie. Let's get serious now. I truly believe you should spend a couple days at each school (in your top 3) and talk to A LOT of students. Ask them if they want to grab some beers after class/clinic. Go with your gut, not which school will look better on your CV, because it really won't matter.

And yes N2O is great stuff. You UCLA 1st years have to bring your oral hygiene up to a minimum standard to pass a class in winter or spring. This means getting a cleaning. A lot of people my my class got upper classmen to do it. I recommend that. I had a hygiene student do it and she nearly layed a full thickness mucoperiostal flap. It was blood city. Grim. Anyway, I'll be offering N2O for anyone who wants a cleaning. Well, you have to pay a little for it, but trust me an hour of N2O is worth it.

Party on.

 

[WestCoast]

UCLA has an awesom OMFS dpt.

it does???? not among the omfs circle

 

[JessicaSimpson]

And yes N2O is great stuff. You UCLA 1st years have to bring your oral hygiene up to a minimum standard to pass a class in winter or spring. This means getting a cleaning. A lot of people my my class got upper classmen to do it. I recommend that. I had a hygiene student do it and she nearly layed a full thickness mucoperiostal flap. It was blood city. Grim. Anyway, I'll be offering N2O for anyone who wants a cleaning. Well, you have to pay a little for it, but trust me an hour of N2O is worth it.

OW! I won't even let most dentists near my mouth ... much less students. you're giving me nightmares about dental school. I faint away at the thought of letting someone try out his or her first mandibular block on me.

 

[dat_student]

...I truly believe you should spend a couple days at each school (in your top 3) and talk to A LOT of students...

I can't pick 3 schools. That's my problem. I have narrowed my list to 15. 🙄 BTW, is UCLA's class size reduced from 88 to 1? I seem to be the only one who has received an interview invitation from UCLA. 😱

 

[food4thots]

I can't pick 3 schools. That's my problem. I have narrowed my list to 15. 🙄 BTW, is UCLA's class size reduced from 88 to 1? I seem to be the only one who has received an interview invitation from UCLA. 😱

u should be careful dat_student.. ur head's getting so big.. u're gonna float away.

 

[johnstylzes]

u should be careful dat_student.. ur head's getting so big.. u're gonna float away.

upp, upp and awaaayyyyy

 

[dat_student]

u should be careful dat_student.. ur head's getting so big.. u're gonna float away.

ok, I'll be more careful. 😉 Seriously, there is no bad school. Each school has so many pluses. It's really really hard to pick one school.

P.S. I haven't dated any girls. The number or beauty of girls won't affect my final decision. I have dated my books and computer.

******************

"Striving to better, oft we mar what's well"
Shakespeare - King Lear

INTERVIEWS: UCLA, UCSF, UPENN, Columbia, UCONN (University of Connecticut), University of Maryland, Boston University, University of Pittsburgh, Temple University, Indiana University, Case Western Reserve University, UMKC, UMDNJ, Nova, I don't recall the rest [I won't go to all interviews]

 

[drhobie7]

it does???? not among the omfs circle

The program has outstanding faculty and residents. All of them are super cool, extremely bright people. They do a lot of operating. I'm not sure why you'd say it doesn't have a good rep.

 

[drhobie7]

I can't pick 3 schools. That's my problem. I have narrowed my list to 15. 🙄 BTW, is UCLA's class size reduced from 88 to 1? I seem to be the only one who has received an interview invitation from UCLA. 😱

If you've got the time and money by all means go to each school. That'd be a fun roadtrip around the country.

 

[lifescool]

ok, I'll be more careful. 😉 Seriously, there is no bad school. Each school has so many pluses. It's really really hard to pick one school.

P.S. I haven't dated any girls. The number or beauty of girls won't affect my final decision. I have dated my books and computer.


omg, you ARE a NERD!!?! 😉