UCSF (no scholarship) vs Pritzker (1/2 tuition)

[throwaway300093]

I'm incredibly fortunate to have been accepted to some great schools this cycle - I am still waiting to hear back on a few (Pitt, Cornell, Duke, and Mount Sinai) but as of right now my heart is struggling to decide mostly between UCSF and UChicago. My decision may change depending on remaining financial aid offers (and UCSF has not given me their financial aid package yet, although I'm not expecting merit aid). I am very social justice/public health advocacy focused, hope to be heavily involved in health services research, and am committed to working with urban underserved populations. Specialty wise, I'm pretty open-minded but I think I'll naturally gravitate towards primary care/internal medicine (general IM, but also interested in endocrinology & nephrology) or emergency medicine.

UCSF
Pros

• UCSF is without a doubt one of the best, if not THE best, medical school in the country. It ranks #1 in terms of reputation by residency program directors, it is ranked top 5 in pretty much any specialty program you can think of, brings in tons of NIH funding, and excels in primary care as well as specialty care. This is a MAJOR pro for me.
• I really liked the San Francisco area when I visited. It's beautiful and I particularly appreciate the culture. The weather seemed right up my alley, and I don't really mind gloominess too much as long as it's not super duper cold.
• The vibe I got from students and faculty there seemed very relaxed and chill, which I like a lot
• I like that there is outdoorsy things to do nearby - I love hiking and generally interacting with nature so this is a definite plus
• Early clinical exposure with its curriculum (integrated in pre-clin, and also they start clerkships earlier)

Cons

• While tuition itself is low, I just can't fathom paying up to $2000/month in rent. I have a dog so I won't be able to stay in student housing, so that's the price of rent I'd be looking at if I moved to San Fran. I just can't rationalize using the majority of my loans for cost of living. Also, I would be paying about $120K more in loans if I go to UCSF compared to U-Chicago (MAJOR CON)
• I live on the East Coast and don't have any family/friends in the area
• San Francisco is gloomy, and I don't really like gloominess but like I said, it's not a huge con for me

Undecided

• The new curriculum - I truly can't decide whether this is a pro or con for me. I like how each week is structured a little bit differently for students, because it spices things up and keeps it exciting. But it also feels slightly disorganized and may be confusing/too hectic for me.
• Students take Step 1 after clerkships - some say it's beneficial to have time on the wards before taking Step 1, but I worry that I will forget the foundational material (e.g. basic science of medicine) if I wait that long to take Step

U-Chicago
Pros

• 1/2 tuition scholarship plus the relatively low cost of living in Hyde Park makes this school a much better option for me economically (MAJOR pro)
• I really love Chicago and think it's a very hip and cool city. I think there is a ton to do and I will have a lot of fun there (when I'm not studying, of course)
• I don't have friends/family in the immediate area, but everyone is within a (cheaper) 2 hour plane or car ride distance from me.
• Strong research focus that is well integrated within the curriculum- particularly like that the research experience is longitudinal rather than clustered in a 5-6 month block. Also, I find that they are doing a lot of the research I want to do in my career (health services/disparities focused)
• I always dreamt of providing care for the Chicago Southside population so training at CCD/Mitchell would be awesome. Their new trauma center/ED makes it even more enticing for me to train at UChicago
• I really vibed with the students that I met there. Something in particular I really liked was that students seemed very free to express themselves how they choose. I honestly wouldn't have guessed any of them were med students!
• -Proximity to Wisconsin Dells, Indiana Dunes, Lake Michigan activities

Cons

• Brutal Chicago winter. I have seasonal affective disorder and I really worry that this will become a problem for me (MAJOR con)
• Chicagoland is not ideal for hiking - super duper flat. I'd say this is a minor con
• I am not entirely sure if this is true but students seemed to be in class 8-4/8-5 each day, and I really prefer having downtime during my day to review/study. I did also interview while the M1s were taking anatomy, so I think that is the only time in the curriculum where you are in class all day.

Undecided

• I'm used to attending schools with larger class sizes, so I don't know how I feel about having a class size of ~88. A pro for me would be being super connected with my class and also knowing that because my class is small, I have more opportunity to get closer to faculty and develop stronger relationships with them. A con for me is that I don't want to feel like I'm being examined under the microscope by the administration.
• Standard 2 year pre-clinical curriculum - I'm fine with it but I guess there could be an advantage to having a shorter pre-clinical curriculum?

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[LebronManning]

Are you a URM?

 

[throwaway300093]

Are you a URM?

yes

 

[pommes]

Wanted to PM you but seems I can't. I'm biased, but I don't think you could go wrong. I'll just clarify that most of us rent in SF for less than that (I mean still absurd), the weekly schedules are not as disorienting as it they seem, and one nice thing about a shortened pre-clinical is a bit more time to figure out your specialty. Congrats!

 

[758437]

I mean looking at these both it seems that you feel pretty equally about both of these schools. The major difference I see is that one is half price.

The proximity to your network also seems ideal for you. I've lived in that part of the Midwest and Chicago is gorgeous and easy to travel to and from. Curriculum-wise I interviewed post anatomy and the M1s said they were in class from like 8 to 12 that day which I think is fairly typical of most medical schools.

So just to go through each factor.

Fit: Chicago > UCSF (small difference between digging the vibe and feeling at home)
Location: Toss-up UCSF is better weather but also farther away from your support.
Prestige: UCSF > UChicago (small difference both are elite schools)
Cost: UChicago>> UCSF (big difference)
Research: Probably equal again.

To me, that says go to Chicago but it may mean something different for you!

 

[throwaway300093]

Wanted to PM you but seems I can't. I'm biased, but I don't think you could go wrong. I'll just clarify that most of us rent in SF for less than that (I mean still absurd), the weekly schedules are not as disorienting as it they seem, and one nice thing about a shortened pre-clinical is a bit more time to figure out your specialty. Congrats!

I'll PM you!

 

[LebronManning]

yes

I think you should choose wherever you would have the best experience and where you're most comfortable. Half the COA is a lot of money, but what this education and the location means for your career, is much more.

 

[throwaway300093]

I mean looking at these both it seems that you feel pretty equally about both of these schools. The major difference I see is that one is half price.

The proximity to your network also seems ideal for you. I've lived in that part of the Midwest and Chicago is gorgeous and easy to travel to and from. Curriculum-wise I interviewed post anatomy and the M1s said they were in class from like 8 to 12 that day which I think is fairly typical of most medical schools.

So just to go through each factor.

Fit: Chicago > UCSF (small difference between digging the vibe and feeling at home)
Location: Toss-up UCSF is better weather but also farther away from your support.
Prestige: UCSF > UChicago (small difference both are elite schools)
Cost: UChicago>> UCSF (big difference)
Research: Probably equal again.

To me, that says go to Chicago but it may mean something different for you!

Thank you! Yes, proximity to my network is more ideal at Chicago personally, but although I hate saying this, I can't reconcile the sheer value of the UCSF name in carrying me through my career.

 

[throwaway300093]

I think you should choose wherever you would have the best experience and where you're most comfortable. Half the COA is a lot of money, but what this education and the location means for your career, is much more.

I definitely agree with you there- I think it's hard for me to say where I will feel most "comfort" because for me I really value both financial wellness and mental wellness. Both schools seem the same to me in terms of value of the education received, but again UCSF has a slight edge because it's a name that can carry me very far in my career.

 

[758437]

Thank you! Yes, proximity to my network is more ideal at Chicago personally, but although I hate saying this, I can't reconcile the sheer value of the UCSF name in carrying me through my career.

I think prestige is pretty negligible here. Just compare match lists. Both are elite institutions. There are lots of excellent reasons to choose UCSF over U chicago but prestige isn't one of them. To each their own though!

 

[tulsajoe94]

.

 

[758437]

I definitely see what you're saying, but wouldn't the OP have a better chance of matching into a top IM program from a place like UCSF? Especially if OP is interested in matching in California?

If OP had said they needed to stay in California I'd totally agree. However, from the post they appear to be from the East Coast. As for matching I really think it would be a wash or a small enough difference that it's hard for me to justify over 100,000 dollars. We can look at their IM matches this year

https://pritzker.uchicago.edu/sites/pritzker.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/3_Anonymous Match List PSOM 2018.pdf

TLDR Lots of U Chicago and Harvard. More generally, their second most common matching institution across all specialties after U Chicago was Harvard.

The 2018 Match | Pritzker School of Medicine | The University of Chicago

Compare that to UCSF which matched 10 to MA (which may or may not be Harvard) with 1.5x bigger class

https://medschool.ucsf.edu/sites/medschool.ucsf.edu/files/2018MatchSummary.pdf

I think if OP was bent on California the difference could be meaningful but I'm not sure that's the case.

 

[acslater99]

Pritzker, hands down. The scholarship alone should have convinced you from the beginning.

Try to leave medical school with the least amount of debt!

 

[Sea Otter]

I had a friend who went to UChicago for Med school and matched at UCSF for residency. It was OB and not IM but concept still stands.

 

[Goro]

I'm incredibly fortunate to have been accepted to some great schools this cycle - I am still waiting to hear back on a few (Pitt, Cornell, Duke, and Mount Sinai) but as of right now my heart is struggling to decide
Undecided

• I'm used to attending schools with larger class sizes, so I don't know how I feel about having a class size of ~88. A pro for me would be being super connected with my class and also knowing that because my class is small, I have more opportunity to get closer to faculty and develop stronger relationships with them. A con for me is that I don't want to feel like I'm being examined under the microscope by the administration.
• Standard 2 year pre-clinical curriculum - I'm fine with it but I guess there could be an advantage to having a shorter pre-clinical curriculum?

Well, what do you like more, Napa wine, Mexican and seafood, or that casserole they call a Chicago pizza???
Seriously, winter notwithstanding, they're both great schools, so I'd send my kid to U Chicago for the half-ride. Keep in mind that most schools do not have required lecture attendance, so you won't be seeing much of your classmates anyway, except on exam days.

And congrats on the accepts, superstar!

 

[stickflip723]

Pritzker, hands down. The scholarship alone should have convinced you from the beginning.

Try to leave medical school with the least amount of debt!

This is the only advice worth a damn here. Take the money and run!

 

[theKingLT]

Thank you! Yes, proximity to my network is more ideal at Chicago personally, but although I hate saying this, I can't reconcile the sheer value of the UCSF name in carrying me through my career.

It's a common misconception that the name of a prestigious medical school will help you in advancing your future career. It can help with residency match (although most would argue ucsf vs pritzker would be negligible), but after that medicine is more focused on what you did last. Obviously there are lasting effects if comparing the opportunities and connections you will make at a T20 vs an unranked school, but between pritzker and UCSF, no one 20 years from now is going to care when considering you for an academic position or wherever your career takes you.

 

[Skeletorr]

You are by far the most reasonable person on SDN. After that “what is the highest of the high tier med schools” thread from last week I was honestly considering deleting my account here.

Would it be SDN without one of those threads tho?

 

[rball]

My advice would simply be go where your gut tells you/where you will be happiest, w/out worrying about reputation. You can use the classic coin trick. You can also pretend you’ve decided on school x and practice telling your close friends/family and then the next day see how that feels, then repeat with school y the next 2 days for comparison. Or you can draft up a withdrawal letter to each school and see which one is harder to type/would be harder to send. Many ways to go about this; make sure you follow your heart.

I do think reputation matters a ton (unfortunately). You are correct that UCSF is a bigger name. But in your areas of interest, they are virtually indistinguishable. Pritzker is a beast in IM and EM; going there will not put you at any disadvantage career wise unless you are dead-set on staying at UCSF or in CA for residency. And even then, Pritzker has incredibly strong connections with UCSF (I believe the order of most frequent institutions pritzker students match into historically is Uchicago, Harvard, UCSF, and then some variation of NW/Mich/WashU). I’ve only heard great things about the school from former students there, and they are known for both nurturing their students and turning them into future leaders in the field. Either way you can’t go wrong.

 

[Naruhodo]

Where did you hear this rumor?

You know what, I honestly probably shouldn't give any air to an unsubstantiated rumor at this point. If and when there is anything to announce I'm sure they well. In the mean time, congrats to the OP and good luck with your decision.

 

[Quantal Reasoning]

Pritzker and get some vitamin D for that SAD if you haven't already.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Do you want to settle on the west coast or otherwise?

 

[Innocent2]

In the specialty you are leaning too, there are a couple of facts:
1) These tend to be less competitive fields and pay less.
2) With the time differences, travel will be a bear with the long flights. Logistically, holidays will be screwed up.
3) The "prestige" factor helps for the next job. In your area of interest, recommendations and step scores will mean alot more.
4) Which one will hurt you more? HCOL, 100% MS, future income vs debt spread is huge. You are wasting your money on your perception which in many are weighted to "institutional resources" that don't impact your training.
5) You will bond with a small group regardless of classes. Misery loves company!
6) Any of the MS's on your list won't help you get your residency any more than another.
It's one thing if you simply felt out of place or uncomfortable, that student debt will be your companion for quite awhile.
East coast is alot different from the west coast. That alone will be an adjustment.

 

[Quantal Reasoning]

UChicago 100%. Nice job!

 

[throwaway300093]

If OP had said they needed to stay in California I'd totally agree. However, from the post they appear to be from the East Coast. As for matching I really think it would be a wash or a small enough difference that it's hard for me to justify over 100,000 dollars. We can look at their IM matches this year

https://pritzker.uchicago.edu/sites/pritzker.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/3_Anonymous Match List PSOM 2018.pdf

TLDR Lots of U Chicago and Harvard. More generally, their second most common matching institution across all specialties after U Chicago was Harvard.

The 2018 Match | Pritzker School of Medicine | The University of Chicago

Compare that to UCSF which matched 10 to MA (which may or may not be Harvard) with 1.5x bigger class

https://medschool.ucsf.edu/sites/medschool.ucsf.edu/files/2018MatchSummary.pdf

I think if OP was bent on California the difference could be meaningful but I'm not sure that's the case.

I am not bent on California at all (have only ever been there once) so there is literally no need for me to be there except possibly for the weather

 

[throwaway300093]

Well, what do you like more, Napa wine, Mexican and seafood, or that casserole they call a Chicago pizza???
Seriously, winter notwithstanding, they're both great schools, so I'd send my kid to U Chicago for the half-ride. Keep in mind that most schools do not have required lecture attendance, so you won't be seeing much of your classmates anyway, except on exam days.

And congrats on the accepts, superstar!

That's a good point - from what I saw, UChicago students seem to be very tightly connected so that is a plus for me, especially if I'm not going to be seeing them too often. Also, thanks!

 

[throwaway300093]

Do you want to settle on the west coast or otherwise?

Not particularly. I'm not against it, but because most of my support systems are on the East coast, it would be easier just to stay eastside.