UCSF vs NYU

[JennyM]

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Hello guys,

Hope you are enjoying the spring time..... Here's the thing.. I've been accepted to UCSF and NYU, which were indeed my top choices to begin with.. I'm very excited, yet I don't know which one to go to. This decision is going to be one of the major decisions that I'll make in my LIFE!!

I've never lived in the west coast ever in my life. Can you guys share some of your thoughts on this? I know New York very well, but almost nothing about SF.

Also, does the location of the dental school greatly influence where you will eventually end up practicing?
SF or NYC? Which city do you think has greater potential for future practice? I know that UCSF is very strong on research, although I know that a renowned cancer specialist has recently relocated to NYU. (I'm interested in studying oral cancer)

I don't know.. Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot!

ps. I'm an international student, if any of you are international student at UCSF, please please do share some of your experiences..

 

[BombayBDS]

Hello guys,

Hope you are enjoying the spring time..... Here's the thing.. I've been accepted to UCSF and NYU, which were indeed my top choices to begin with.. I'm very excited, yet I don't know which one to go to. This decision is going to be one of the major decisions that I'll make in my LIFE!!

I've never lived in the west coast ever in my life. Can you guys share some of your thoughts on this? I know New York very well, but almost nothing about SF.

Also, does the location of the dental school greatly influence where you will eventually end up practicing?
SF or NYC? Which city do you think has greater potential for future practice? I know that UCSF is very strong on research, although I know that a renowned cancer specialist has recently relocated to NYU. (I'm interested in studying oral cancer)

I don't know.. Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot!

ps. I'm an international student, if any of you are international student at UCSF, please please do share some of your experiences..

didya get admitted to the IDP program(2 yrs) of UCSF or the regular DDS program (4 yrs)?

 

[Pennywisdom]

DSS or IDP, my vote goes to UCSF. 😀

 

[321931]

SF is a nicer/cleaner version of NYC. But that being said, people from NYC feel as though SF is to "slow" of a place. Personally, I prefer nice people, better weather (year around ~60-70ish degrees; however, it does get foggy...but its a TON better then NYC winter/hot sweaty icky summers), and hey the institution has better "recognition" over NYU.

 

[JennyM]

I agree with you, Rainee.. It does have a better recognition and much nicer weather. I never thought of nyc's summer weather as a deciding factor, but come to think of it, nyc has a very humid weather. not to mention the terrible cold...

I got into the regular DDS. I don't know what IDP is?..

 

[BombayBDS]

I agree with you, Rainee.. It does have a better recognition and much nicer weather. I never thought of nyc's summer weather as a deciding factor, but come to think of it, nyc has a very humid weather. not to mention the terrible cold...

I got into the regular DDS. I don't know what IDP is?..

IDP = international dentist program. these are for guys who r already dentists in their home country.
there are fundamental differances between the IDP at NYU and UCSF, thats why I asked.

UCSF is the way to go!

 

[John Durian]

UCSF all the way! I've lived in New York before and the weather is a pain. SF is much more beautiful IMO: slower pace, better weather, 'nicer' people, etc.

 

[TeethRgreat]

I, along with most other sane people in this world, will be mad at you if you choose NYU over UCSF....

Let me see...
1. Better weather
2. Better recognition
3. $150,000 less expensive
4. (IMO) San Francisco is a cooler city than New York. It's smaller/more comfortable/less stressful environment.

UCSF definitely.

 

[bing12]

I, along with most other sane people in this world, will be mad at you if you choose NYU over UCSF....

Let me see...
1. Better weather
2. Better recognition
3. $150,000 less expensive
4. (IMO) San Francisco is a cooler city than New York. It's smaller/more comfortable/less stressful environment.

UCSF definitely.

I disagree agree with 2 and 4. Globally, NYU is a huge brand ( I would go ahead and say deff bigger than UCSF on a international basis). and 4 is really opinion based, but I am willing to bet if people had the option to live in NY or SF, they would pick NY more than 50% of the time. I agree with 1 and 3 though.

 

[namiie]

Globally, NYU is a huge brand ( I would go ahead and say deff bigger than UCSF on a international basis).

No way dude. Whom have you been speaking to? UCSF is a world-class health science and research institution. I may be wrong, but isn't NYU one of the easier dental schools to get into as well? I have never seen NYU hold a candle to UCSF in either print news rankings or by word-of-mouth.

 

[Pennywisdom]

I disagree agree with 2 and 4. Globally, NYU is a huge brand ( I would go ahead and say deff bigger than UCSF on a international basis). and 4 is really opinion based, but I am willing to bet if people had the option to live in NY or SF, they would pick NY more than 50% of the time. I agree with 1 and 3 though.

Definitely not in the medical/dental realm.

NYU is a bigger global 'brand name' because it has undergrad programs (and being ranked on USNews Top 50 National University list certainly adds more value) whereas UCSF has no such thing.

 

[John Durian]

Globally, NYU is a huge brand ( I would go ahead and say deff bigger than UCSF on a international basis). and 4 is really opinion based, but I am willing to bet if people had the option to live in NY or SF, they would pick NY more than 50% of the time. I agree with 1 and 3 though.

I do think NYU is more of a "global" international brand (they just opened up a new school in China) because those outside of the health circuit tend to not care/know about UCSF's reputation as much.

With that said, who the heck cares that NYU is the more internationally recognized brand?! We're going to be dentists... not CEOs of international Fortune 500 companies.

And I would also disagree with people choosing NY over SF. I'd say it would be 50:50 at best. And if you've ever had the chance to live in NY and SF during the summer or winter months... I would argue that it would be 80:20 in favor of SF 🙄

 

[BombayBDS]

who the heck cares that NYU is the more internationally recognized brand?!

I don't.
Lemme give u an example :
10% of my class from the indian dental school has come to NYu to get some short course degree or the other. Its become such a trend that now, friends dont even blink an eye when they hear of someone going to NYU.

In general, most people feel they paid wayy too much for the courses.

Not many youngsters know about UCSF. But in the academic / teacher circle - it is BIG!

we call UCSF faculty over to Bombay for IDA courses - they are always sold out!!!

 

[bing12]

oh i dont really care for the brand name of a school, i was just arguing that I believe NYU is more well known than SF. And I would personally want to live in SF if I had the choice, but I believe that more would want to live in NY.

 

[bing12]

Definitely not in the medical/dental realm.

NYU is a bigger global 'brand name' because it has undergrad programs (and being ranked on USNews Top 50 National University list certainly adds more value) whereas UCSF has no such thing.

NYU is ranked number 6 in Law schools ( US news), so I am assuming its pretty good, even though the rankings may be a bit skewed. Doesn't NYU have a great medical school as well? Let me state this again, I am in no way endorsing NYU, but correcting what I believe is wrong about the comment. I do agree that it is not looked upon HIGHLY in the dental realm.

 

[JennyM]

NYU Law is very good I heard. But that has nothing to do with dental school though. I think NYU has brand name because it's a huge school with undergrad, law, dental, medical. It's a great school if I cannot leave nyc for whatever reason. But thanks guys! It's really helpful reading your replies.

I want to add that I have worked with a professor at NYU already and sort of am in the middle of a project.. I don't know what to do about that either. 🙁 What do y'all think? Do you think having a mentor going in NYU would be better than going to UCSF?

 

[prsndwg]

A UCSF newly graduate dentist told me that both UCSF's Dean and the top well known Oral Cancer researcher/instructor have moved to NYUCD.. Does that change anything?🙄

 

[DrDientes]

NYU Law is very good I heard. But that has nothing to do with dental school though. I think NYU has brand name because it's a huge school with undergrad, law, dental, medical. It's a great school if I cannot leave nyc for whatever reason. But thanks guys! It's really helpful reading your replies.

I want to add that I have worked with a professor at NYU already and sort of am in the middle of a project.. I don't know what to do about that either. 🙁 What do y'all think? Do you think having a mentor going in NYU would be better than going to UCSF?

We have a Medical, Pharmacy, Nursing, PT, and Dental School, all which are very well known in their respective fields. NYU taking some of our faculty shows how good of a school we are, we still have plenty of amazing researchers here though, its not like by taking those two people we aren't good anymore. I would choose UCSF over NYU most definitely if you want to live in the west coast.

UCSF Class of 2014

 

[Muggsy Bogues]

Don't know why talking about "brand name" is relevant to this discussion when it literally has zero implication on one's dental career.

 

[peerless218]

What about clinical training of both schools? specializing rate? Which curriculum do you feel more comfortable with? Isn't that more important than just NAME BRAND and RANKING? How are the patient pool for each school? How well does the school teach the students when it comes to using that high speed hand piece? Are you looking to specialize .etc These should be the quesitons you're asking instead of just "brand name" and what rank its law school or medical school is ranked in a magazine."

 

[Montserrat]

I disagree agree with 2 and 4. Globally, NYU is a huge brand ( I would go ahead and say deff bigger than UCSF on a international basis). and 4 is really opinion based, but I am willing to bet if people had the option to live in NY or SF, they would pick NY more than 50% of the time. I agree with 1 and 3 though.

LOL.

UCSF is a world renowned healthcare institution and school -- a far greater commodity in healthcare than NYU is known for being either now or in the past.

 

[Montserrat]

A UCSF newly graduate dentist told me that both UCSF's Dean and the top well known Oral Cancer researcher/instructor have moved to NYUCD.. Does that change anything?🙄

It says that NYU pays better.

 

[bing12]

LOL.

UCSF is a world renowned healthcare institution and school -- a far greater commodity in healthcare than NYU is known for being either now or in the past.

I was speaking about overall reputation on both a domestic and international level. I am not arguing that pre-dents should take that into consideration at all, just arguing that i dont think UCSF has " better recognition". I have family and friends all over the globe, everyone knows of NYU, i dont think many know or have heard of UCSF. I am from the east coast, the schools(from cali) that we are typically familiar with are UCLA,Standford, and Berkeley ( sry UCSF). To clarify, im speaking about recognition, nothing else.

 

[armorshell]

It says that NYU pays better.

If you think Schmidt left UCSF because NYU "pays better" than you don't really know him that well. I've seen him lecture a few times and even with that little exposure you easily get a sense he cares far more about caring for patients and furthering his specialty with research than ANYTHING else.

 

[dentalWorks]

Hello guys,

Hope you are enjoying the spring time..... Here's the thing.. I've been accepted to UCSF and NYU, which were indeed my top choices to begin with.. I'm very excited, yet I don't know which one to go to. This decision is going to be one of the major decisions that I'll make in my LIFE!!

I've never lived in the west coast ever in my life. Can you guys share some of your thoughts on this? I know New York very well, but almost nothing about SF.

Also, does the location of the dental school greatly influence where you will eventually end up practicing?
SF or NYC? Which city do you think has greater potential for future practice? I know that UCSF is very strong on research, although I know that a renowned cancer specialist has recently relocated to NYU. (I'm interested in studying oral cancer)

I don't know.. Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot!

ps. I'm an international student, if any of you are international student at UCSF, please please do share some of your experiences..

Is the tuition really 150k less at UCSF? If thats the case, then its settled

 

[atoothdoc]

JennyM What are your statrs like ? Youm ust have great stats to be accepted by UCSF

 

[dantemac]

Enough with the collateral issues...UCSF is cheaper, a better place to live, and a lot harder to get in! Take it as a point of pride you were accepted and go there!!

 

[104]

What about clinical training of both schools? specializing rate? Which curriculum do you feel more comfortable with? Isn't that more important than just NAME BRAND and RANKING? How are the patient pool for each school? How well does the school teach the students when it comes to using that high speed hand piece? Are you looking to specialize .etc These should be the quesitons you're asking instead of just "brand name" and what rank its law school or medical school is ranked in a magazine."

I agree! I would be more concerned on going to the school that will provide me with the best education.

 

[Montserrat]

If you think Schmidt left UCSF because NYU "pays better" than you don't really know him that well. I've seen him lecture a few times and even with that little exposure you easily get a sense he cares far more about caring for patients and furthering his specialty with research than ANYTHING else.

Right... the allure of NYC and the amazing patient access and research avenues compelled him to leave. The massive pay grade bump at a private school during a fiscal crisis at a state school was a minor side note.

Similarly, I once heard Gregory Mankiw lecture. From that brief time, I could similarly deduce the rationale of dropping his John Hancock on macroecon texts. He did it purely for educational reasons and "even with that little exposure, you easily get a sense he cares far more about caring for young minds." The six figure pay day had nothing to do with it. Clearly.

 

[armorshell]

Right... the allure of NYC and the amazing patient access and research avenues compelled him to leave. The massive pay grade bump at a private school during a fiscal crisis at a state school was a minor side note.

Similarly, I once heard Gregory Mankiw lecture. From that brief time, I could similarly deduce the rationale of dropping his John Hancock on macroecon texts. He did it purely for educational reasons and "even with that little exposure, you easily get a sense he cares far more about caring for young minds." The six figure pay day had nothing to do with it. Clearly.

Believe whatever you want. The majority of academic OMS don't make decisions like normal humans would. If they did, they wouldn't be in academics.

 

[iralex801]

Right... the allure of NYC and the amazing patient access and research avenues compelled him to leave. The massive pay grade bump at a private school during a fiscal crisis at a state school was a minor side note.

Similarly, I once heard Gregory Mankiw lecture. From that brief time, I could similarly deduce the rationale of dropping his John Hancock on macroecon texts. He did it purely for educational reasons and "even with that little exposure, you easily get a sense he cares far more about caring for young minds." The six figure pay day had nothing to do with it. Clearly.

Haha I agree with you. I guess having economics major as a second major makes you doubt the sincerity of people's actions. I do like to believe there are people out there who are truly altruistic though.

 

[rockclock]

i think the original point here was not academics' motivations or that one school pays more than the other, but simply that faculty transferring from one institution to another doesn't necessarily suggest (let alone prove) anything about the quality of those two schools.

 

[crzairhead]

JennyM, what have you decided on?

 

[JennyM]

My final decision came down to NYU... I just thought that with all that Budget cuts, I will get a better clinical training at NYU. Also the fact that many good faculties are recruited there made me decide that way too. It's gonna be good. Also the pass/fail way of UCSF might cause trouble for specialties later (if I decide to do it) since the boards are going pass/fail now. Oh the weather sucks yea .... but what can I do! I'm done deciding phew it was a hard week!! Thanks you guys for all your valuable inputs and interest.

 

[flapaTron]

My final decision came down to NYU... I just thought that with all that Budget cuts, I will get a better clinical training at NYU. Also the fact that many good faculties are recruited there made me decide that way too. It's gonna be good. Also the pass/fail way of UCSF might cause trouble for specialties later (if I decide to do it) since the boards are going pass/fail now. Oh the weather sucks yea .... but what can I do! I'm done deciding phew it was a hard week!! Thanks you guys for all your valuable inputs and interest.

i'm not trying to marginalize your decision or discourage you in any way, but this statement needs to stop being perpetuated. this will not make a difference in specialization placement for those taking P/F part I's. book it.

 

[Noelle23]

i'm not trying to marginalize your decision or discourage you in any way, but this statement needs to stop being perpetuated. this will not make a difference in specialization placement for those taking P/F part I's. book it.

It's quite interesting that you make such a profound statement! Especially since none would know this seeing that not a single person has applied to a specialty program with a P/F board yet. This uncertainty won't be known for years to come. Unless you happen to be on the admin committee for a specialty program??? Even so, they are still unsure about how its going to be played out...

 

[flapaTron]

It's quite interesting that you make such a profound statement! Especially since none would know this seeing that not a single person has applied to a specialty program with a P/F board yet. This uncertainty won't be known for years to come. Unless you happen to be on the admin committee for a specialty program??? Even so, they are still unsure about how its going to be played out...

interesting???

This is not actually true at all. Several programs have been piloting/testing/working on alternate examinations.
OMS: likely to use the NBME
Ortho: talks of using the GRE (As it's already required at several programs)

Additionally, resolution 70 (from ASDA notes) submitted by nearly all speaclty programs (AAOMP, AAPD, AAP, AAOMS, AAO, AAPHD, ACP) indicates that these specialties are petitioning the JCDNE to postpone/reconsider all-together making the boards P/F.

Either way, there must/will be something in place to objectively rank applicants. There is no way to standardize GPA and class rank between dental schools across the country.

THE POINT: don't let the grading systems of the boards dictate what school you ultimately choose. If the OP is happy with his or her decision, bless his or her heart.

 

[Noelle23]

THE POINT: don't let the grading systems of the boards dictate what school you ultimately choose. If the OP is happy with his or her decision, bless his or her heart.[/QUOTE]

The boards were never meant to serve as a ranking tool for specialty programs to help them determine the best candidates... Don't you think this was taken into consideration before making the change to going P/F?

All I am saying is you shouldn't make such bold statements like that, when you are clearly no authority on the subject. A doctor that I used to work for works at the Ortho program in my state and they use the GRE but have much more heavily relied on board scores. He himself has said they aren't sure where to go from here. So yeah, I think it is "interesting" that you do🙂

So, if people want to go to a school that ranks their students and they feel confident that they can get within that top 10% insetad of going to a P/F school then all the more power to them! I think with P/F boards it can only help their chances.

 

[dentalWorks]

According to this (read post #27)
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=814910

UCLA and columbia don't use the "traditional" ranking/grading system.... and yet they seem to place a pretty big portion of their class into 3 of the most competitive residencies.

Honestly, If I was the OP, I wouldn't be so worried about specialty matching so much as the 400k+ debt he/she will incur from NYU

Hey flapaTron, I thought the decision was already made that (start 2012), Part 1 is going p/f.... did they change that?

 

[flapaTron]

The boards were never meant to serve as a ranking tool for specialty programs to help them determine the best candidates... Don't you think this was taken into consideration before making the change to going P/F?

It's not the JCNDE's concern. This has been in the works with the Joint Commission for nearly 10 years. The responsibility to make an assessment of post-graduate applicants has been delegated to residency programs.

All I am saying is you shouldn't make such bold statements like that, when you are clearly no authority on the subject. A doctor that I used to work for works at the Ortho program in my state and they use the GRE but have much more heavily relied on board scores. He himself has said they aren't sure where to go from here. So yeah, I think it is "interesting" that you do🙂

there is nothing bold about my statement. i only presented actual evidence from ASDA/JCDNE/Annual conference of AAOMS notes. plus, i'd argue it helps that i'm an involved dental student at my institution who is actively engaged in this dialogue with faculty members. no, this is not set in stone, there is still some time before there are any meaningful effects with obvious room for change. However, it's a far cry from SDN-predental forum speculations....

So, if people want to go to a school that ranks their students and they feel confident that they can get within that top 10% insetad of going to a P/F school then all the more power to them! I think with P/F boards it can only help their chances.

again, congrats to the OP for gaining acceptance and making a decision on his or her dream school.
But based on this logic, i guess everyone at Harvard, Columbia, UConn, UCSF are boned then. interesting considering their historically high match rates.....

 

[Noelle23]

Lol. I think you defensiveness is missing the point. All I am saying is that you really do not know for 100% certainty what adcoms will be taking into consideration when placing people into specialities, especially in the future.

So, to come on here and say that this or that will not affect their chances of getting into a specialty is pretty bold in my opinion.

DW- you are correct. Nonetheless, those stats are for people that had actual board scores... Not sure what the future holds.🙂 If it were me, I would go to UCSF over NYU in a heart beat. As I am wait listed there!!

 

[dentalWorks]

Lol. I think you defensiveness is missing the point. All I am saying is that you really do not know for 100% certainty what adcoms will be taking into consideration when placing people into specialities, especially in the future.

So, to come on here and say that this or that will not affect their chances of getting into a specialty is pretty bold in my opinion.

DW- you are correct. Nonetheless, those stats are for people that had actual board scores... Not sure what the future holds.🙂 If it were me, I would go to UCSF over NYU in a heart beat. As I am wait listed there!!

True. If/when boards go P/F, they'll just get another test to replace it (GRE, NBME, etc). Theyr not gonna just leave it up to the class rank and personal statement lolz.... And the way I see it today, since 2012 is right around the corner, its gonna be GRE for all residency programs. Then 5-10 years later, they'll adapt "another" test.

 

[flapaTron]

Noelle, i gently encourage you to re-read my post (or better yet, read the information published by the relevant organizations). no one is necessarily stating that everything is set in stone. There is still 3 years before this is applicable. However, these governing bodies carry more weight than possibly ill-conceived notions from the pre-dental forums of SDN.

It isn't a matter of being "bold" or "defensive", it's a matter of looking to and making informed decisions what information is in fact available in leu of speculation. Additionally, please realize that board scores, class rank, GPA (Where applicable), externships, etc. are all individual components that play a role in matching into specialty programs. As such, my point is that choosing a school because it ranks / doesn't rank is arguably pointless.

NOTION A: "choose a school that ranks applicants because i think it will help me match into my specialty of choice since the boards will be P/F".

NOTION B: "residencies programs will likely adopt some manner of standardized examination (to replace the NBDE part I) to appraise and match applicants based on concrete information from governing bodies"

If you can demonstrate that NOTION A is legitimate, relevant, and/or soundly based and more logical than NOTION B based on what information is available, I will bow down to your assertion.

 

[JennyM]

I was thinking for a while again today..... Walking tens of blocks in the city..... And I thought that I would be happier in Cali than here..... To me NYC was such a cold and lonely city although it's incessantly booming with people everywhere... So I'm hoping in SF, things would be different. More friendly and family like.. which is what I've heard. And plus reading your posts, I guess P/F thing won't really affect me in getting specialties.