Hello all,
I recently got accepted to both UCSF and UPenn
I didn't expect to have both tickets, so this is really a tough decision to make.
FYI, I am OOS for both states (I know Penn is a private school, residency doesn't really matter)
and I have been in the east coast for almost all of my life.
I love Cali weather but when I went to UCSF interview, it was rather chilly than I expected
I may specialize or not.
I really love P/F system at UCSF
but my parents want me to go Penn since it is IVY.
So going to IVY school will give me higher chance to specialize in the future,
but at UCSF interview, they have pretty high specializing rate.
I know both schools are great!
So, what would be a better choice?
This was compiled by current Penn students who were going through the same dilemma as you. Good luck with your decision!
---
Opinion #1:
Congrats for getting into great schools. I am from Atlanta as well and had exact same dilemma last year. I used the following lines of logic to pick UPenn over UCSF:
- Ivy League school. It might not matter as much in dentistry yet it is a brand you will always carry with you through out your career. UCSF is a great medical / dental school yet UPenn is a great school in all majors. Thus you can benefit from interacting with other schools.
- I have some friends graduated from UPenn. They believed UPenn prepare you well in both academic and clinical aspects of dentistry.
- Philadelphia is cheaper cost of living.
- West phila provides a great pool of patients for clinical requirements.
- Better job market in north east than California. Thus graduating from a school here you can establish a better network if you want to work in this region.
- If you want to pursue any specialty grading system helps you more than pass / fail curriculum. Also UPenn brand increase your chance of getting in to your specialty of choice.
- The downside for me was the higher cost of attendance, which you mentioned is not an issue for you.
- Dental school is on the main campus which again provides easier interdisciplinary opportunities.
---
Opinion #2:
first of all a huge congratulations is in order for getting in to such great schools! This is an amazing problem to have and I hope you're giving yourself credit for all the hard work you've done to get here. Both are great choices and I'm sure you will be happy either place. In terms of choosing, though, since unfortunately you have to, I guess I would first say that first and foremost, however cheesy it sounds, you should go with what feels right. I presume that you did some following your heart in your college choice as well and I hope that treated you well so far. I know that was the case for me personally. I think that going to a dental school where you felt comfortable (or as comfortable as one can ever feel in an interview) and somewhere that you could see yourself for four years is equally important, especially with choices as good as yours. And the thing is, it is a tough choice. I think both can probably help you get great opportunities and potentially specialties when you get out, and I'm happy to hear that finances aren't a problem. I would say that I liked both schools too. Penn was higher on my list, and UCSF didn't end up being one of my final decisions, but first thing's first.
Ok, so about Penn. Personally, I love it. I was really worried about whether the community would be collaborative or competitive when I entered dental school, being a fan of a more collaborative environment, and I think Penn has that. My class (and others too) are very close and extremely willing to bend over backwards and help each other out. Whether it's staying later in lab to give each other tips, sending around study guides that people haven't asked for in hopes that they'll be useful, or just feeling willing to study together and admit the areas we're weak on, I think we've established a really helpful professional relationship. I didn't go to UCSF and am sure it's the same, but I attribute the attitude at Penn to the caliber of the school and the students. I think that's a big part of what makes it ok to not have a pass/fail curriculum. If you do decide you want to specialize (which it's good to keep your options open), it's pretty easy to do from Penn because people do tend to do well despite the grades. Since most of the class is not ranked and we've traditionally been very fortunate to match well into specialty programs, people are generally not worried about getting ahead. Yes, they want to do well, but it's in addition to instead of at the expense of their friends. It also helps that the classes aren't curved, so if everyone does well on the test, everyone just does well, and that's a very prominent attitude.
As a student from Georgia, I think another thing you would appreciate is the varied backgrounds at Penn, and that is one thing I think I like more than UCSF. I hate to make judgments on a school I didn't go to, but one thing I liked about Penn from the beginning was the range of backgrounds and experiences we have. The school truly has a national (and international) draw, and also has a lot of variation in socioeconomic background. I definitely don't feel like we are homogenous, believe me, I would hate that. I love to hear my classmates stories, they come from a lot of different places in terms of motivation, educational background, personal background, etc. I think this also plays into life after dental school in that students from Penn go on to post graduate programs and practices all around the country, and your connections that you make at Penn don't limit you to this area. I was a little worried that if I went to UCSF I would feel compelled to stay in California for the wrong reasons, and love that the whole country feels open to me from here.
Another thing I just want to touch on is the Penn community because that's one of my favorite parts. As I'm sure you've noticed, almost no dental schools are on the same campus with other graduate schools, let alone all of the other graduate and undergraduate programs as we are here. Of course, UCSF doesn't even have an undergraduate school! Now, I'm particularly involved with graduate student life, but that's because from the beginning of my time I wanted to reach out and take advantage of how easy it was to get to know people from other programs. This is inspired by my liberal arts background, but I was worried about moving to Philadelphia, where I knew no one, and only having dental student friends. It turns out that reaching out was great, but not even necessary because it is so easy to meet and make friends with other graduate students. It's also nice to have the combined resources and advocacy of the entire university behind you, it makes for a lot of great events, not to mention the other great libraries, and how sometime's it's just nice to walk around campus! In terms of actual integration, the dental students show up in force to graduate student events, and two of us are on the governing board of the graduate student government because we do as a whole want to be involved and care about what else is going on at Penn. That's not to say that there is no dental student culture, to the contrary. My class hangs out a lot and so do other classes, our social chairs are great at planning a ton of events and keeping us involved, but there are a lot of choices in terms of social interaction, and I love that.
In terms of externships, I haven't been on one yet, but I can definitely say that was a big part of why I chose Penn. I personally didn't and still don't know where I want to practice or whether I want to specialize, and really liked the face that whatever I decide I can pursue it on my externship. I definitely know I've heard nothing but great things about the program from people who have participated, including that they often lead to residency or employment opportunities and that I know first hand that people really do go all over the country.
