Ultrasound Elective

[TheRealBatmanMD]

Serious and possibly dumb question. Is ultrasound a useless skill for someone who wants to go into neurosurgery residency? Perhaps it would be useful intern year? I have a free elective slot available 4th year and I have the option of this elective.

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[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

If it's like a 2-week elective and you're interested in ultrasound it wouldn't hurt to be more familiar with the modalities your peers use. Does nsg ever use intra-op ultrasound? I could imagine that being the case for some select procedures. Nothing you wouldn't learn later on, though.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Pick something mildly interesting where you can come in at 9 and leave by 3.

Especially in a field where you're going to embark on 7 years of residency training, there is zero chance that you will learn anything in a one month elective from 4th year when you're likely already mentally checked out.

 

[cj_cregg]

I am not sure I have seen our neurosurgeons ever even order an ultrasound (except neonates I guess?), let alone do a bedside one. What about rads, trauma surg, psych, neurology? Consider also palliative care - not so much the actual medical stuff, but just seeing examples of people who are very good at it delivering bad news to patients, talking about goals of care, life support interventions, and end of life care, dealing with families with unrealistic expectations, etc. - certainly things neurosurgery patients have to navigate often. As an FM person, one of the things I find most challenging about comanaging with specialists is that some of them seem to really struggle with being straightforward with patients about their prognosis and incorporating patient goals into a treatment plan when the patient goal is anything but "do everything." Which I get - it's really hard to do from an emotional and communication standpoint, we don't get enough training in medical school to do it well, and frankly none of us have time to do this the right way even if we wanted to. (Many PCPs struggle with this as well I'm sure, I'm just not usually comanaging with other PCPs to witness this myself.) Honestly I think all med students should have to spend some time on an inpatient palliative care service for this reason.

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

I am not sure I have seen our neurosurgeons ever even order an ultrasound (except neonates I guess?), let alone do a bedside one. What about rads, trauma surg, psych, neurology? And actually the most useful rotation I ever did in medical school, later in my M4 year to boot, was palliative care. It wasn't so much the actual medical stuff, but just seeing examples of people who are very good at it delivering bad news to patients, talking about goals of care, life support interventions, and end of life care, dealing with families with unrealistic expectations, etc. - certainly things neurosurgery patients have to navigate often. As an FM person, one of the things I find most challenging about comanaging with specialists is that some of them seem to really struggle with being straightforward with patients about their prognosis and incorporating patient goals into a treatment plan when the patient goal is anything but "do everything." Which I get - it's really hard to do from an emotional and communication standpoint, we don't get enough training in medical school to do it well, and frankly none of us have time to do this the right way even if we wanted to. (Many PCPs struggle with this as well I'm sure, I'm just not usually comanaging with other PCPs to witness this myself.) Honestly I think all med students should have to spend some time on an inpatient palliative care service for this reason.

Yeah, I'm scheduled for neurorads and 2 neurocrit electives. Just trying to find some chill electives during interview season in November and December. I would ask the neurosurgery residents at my school, but I've been pestering them with questions lately. Haha. We do have a 2 week palliative care elective, so I'll definitely consider it!

 

[throwaway123342]

Yeah, I'm scheduled for neurorads and 2 neurocrit electives. Just trying to find some chill electives during interview season in November and December. I would ask the neurosurgery residents at my school, but I've been pestering them with questions lately. Haha. We do have a 2 week palliative care elective, so I'll definitely consider it!

General rads is still useful for every specialty. see if you can sign up for that.

 

[Smurfette]

Do you have an anatomy elective as an option? Or a resuscitation/ACLS type course? Those would be chill.
An US elective would be fine, but other than central lines, I am not sure what a neurosurgeon would use it for.
Palliative care or a PMR elective might be a nice option as well.

 

[NeedSomeAdviceGuy]

Do you have an anatomy elective as an option? Or a resuscitation/ACLS type course? Those would be chill.
An US elective would be fine, but other than central lines, I am not sure what a neurosurgeon would use it for.
Palliative care or a PMR elective might be a nice option as well.

What do those anatomy electives even typically entail?

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

What do those anatomy electives even typically entail?

Probably depends on the school. My school has a deep dive of anatomy in various areas, such as head and neck dissection which includes neuroanatomy. Too bad I have something else scheduled during the time it's offered.

 

[Smurfette]

What do those anatomy electives even typically entail?

My school had an elective where there were some loose guidelines as to what we were supposed to know, and we had cadavers to work on and access to prosections. We could more or less focus on areas we wanted to, as the point of the class was sort of self-study and they knew we'd all have different things we wanted to focus on. Lots of future surgeons in the class focussing on their areas. I think there was an exam at the end, but nothing stressful.

 

[NeedSomeAdviceGuy]

Probably depends on the school. My school has a deep dive of anatomy in various areas, such as head and neck dissection which includes neuroanatomy. Too bad I have something else scheduled during the time it's offered.

My school had an elective where there were some loose guidelines as to what we were supposed to know, and we had cadavers to work on and access to prosections. We could more or less focus on areas we wanted to, as the point of the class was sort of self-study and they knew we'd all have different things we wanted to focus on. I think there was an exam at the end, but nothing stressful.

Ah nice. I can definitely see that being useful for folks going into any surgical specialty to brush up on their anatomy.

Did you have any non-surgery folks in those electives Smurfette? What were they focusing on?

 

[Smurfette]

Ah nice. I can definitely see that being useful for folks going into any surgical specialty to brush up on their anatomy.

Did you have any non-surgery folks in those electives Smurfette? What were they focusing on?

I think there were a couple non-surgeons--a radiologist and maybe a pathologist? I think they just liked anatomy as a first year and figured they'd take the senior elective as it might come in helpful for relationships between structures.