UMDNJ-Robert Wood Reputation? (Holding two MD accepts)

[terribletwos]

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Thanks for addressing my questions, guys. From the docs I talked to, RWJ indeed sounds like a great place.

 

[FutureDoc4]

I posted my reply here:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8065171&posted=1#post8065171


There is one thing I would mention. That many instructors here WOULD like it reform into Rutgers medical school (like you mentioned as a negative, not sure why). That is what it use to be and would separate us from the scandals that tend to occur on the other UMDNJ campuses. However, this is not likely to happen for a variety of political reasons I won't go into here.

 

[terribletwos]

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[FutureDoc4]

Definitely, not a negative at all. Medical schools change names all the time. Brown University Medical school changed name 2 years ago to the Warren Alpert School of Medicine at Brown University. In fact, many of my attendings here at RWJMS went to "Rutgers Medical School" that does not negate their medical degree. It's still the degree/diploma on their wall.

Honestly, not to be mean, but you are making something big out of absolutely nothing.

 

[JulyMorning]

When RWJMS was founded in 1966, it was known as the Rutgers Medical School (you may see the foundation stone in the Kessler Research Building for yourself if you would like). It was rechristened RWJ in 1980's. Nothing wrong with it becoming a Rutgers school again (not that that would happen - someone mentioned it - politics). Plus, research-wise, there is an inseparable collaboration between Rutgers and UMDNJ anyway.
Of the two MD-degree-granting UMDNJ schools, I consider RWJMS the better one.
It is true that there have been scandals within UMDNJ in the recent years (everything from a stolen cadaver hand that ended up in possession of a prostitute, to students starting clinical rotations at Camden without having passed their Step I, to cardiology at NJMS university hospital screwing around with referrals and insurance). RWJMS and NJMS lost their NIH funding for the MSTP program (which is quite unfair and unfortunate: maybe it will be reinstated now that the NIH got money from the government). LCME just reaccredited RWJMS last year, or the year before (pretty sure it was 2008).
Despite all these, I assure you that if you remain on the New Brunswick/Piscataway campus for all four years, you are certain to get a really good medical education. I know some fantastic doctors who graduated from RWJMS, and to me, that says much more about the school than any recent peculiar events.
Unless your other medical school acceptance is from a really higher ranking, "name" school, go with RWJMS. Chances are, you won't regret it.

Oh, P.S. When you come to RWJMS in fall, for the M1 year, bring a cushion with you - those seats in the first year lecture hall are murderous to your bottom 😀

 

[useatoothbrush]

I wonder where the OP ended up going.

 

[JulyMorning]

Yes, RWJMS had an NIH-funded MSTP program up to last year (2008). Although the funding from the NIH is not there at the moment, RWJMS still does have an MD-PhD program with essentially the same perks MSTP came with: full tuition paid, a competitive stipend, etc (with a probable exception that if you drop out of the MD-PhD program, you may have to pay back the money for the first two years of med school, but I can't be sure of that). In the past years, six students matriculated as MSTP/MD-PhD every year, and I'm almost certain that that is the number now. The best person to talk to about the MD-PhD program would be Dr. Terry Kinzy, the program director.

RWJMS was on probation as a part of UMDNJ, but was removed from that probation in 2008. The cause of probation had nothing to do with the medical education directly (at least that I am aware of), rather with the financial shenanigans that have been going on before Dr. Owen became the president of UMDNJ.
As I have stated before, the New Brunswick/Piscataway campus will give you an excellent medical education, and the RWJUH (the university hospital) is really an excellent place to do your clinicals.

 

[Sureshot83]

Hello,

I realize I am very lucky to hold two acceptances, but I am very torn about this. I know that UMDNJ as a university was on probation with a regional, mid-atlantic body (not LCME). However, when I looked at LCME I saw that the school is *dinged* for something, along with a few other institutions, if I am interpreting the asterisk correctly (http://www.lcme.org/directry.htm). I'm worried that if I enter UMDNJ, it may be put on LCME probation a few years later. I don't think this is too irrational, given the many scandals and controversies over the past few years.

I am an MS4, and I echo what everyone else has said. It's a great place, with a tight student body and great student affairs administration.

I will take a stab at interpreting the asterisk on the LCME link. I am pretty sure our school had a brief LCME visit recently, and I think this is what the asterisk refers to. (If you scroll to the bottom, you'll see it says that it means "Limited, focused survey.") I think this came about as result of the shenanigans going on down in Camden, hence the "focused" survey. In any case, they were satisfied with the changes in policy and administration, and kept full accreditation with NO LCME probation. (As another person mentioned, maybe in the other thread, other schools like GWU actually say "on probation.")

Since this was only a focused survey, the LCME still needs to do their regularly scheduled major site visit, which is planned for 2010. Right now, everyone from the administration to the faculty to even the students are preparing for this visit, and there is absolutely no reason to think that the LCME will do anything other than renew the existing full accreditation for five years. Really, the only problem at RWJMS was that Camden thing, and since they did a focused visit and were satisfied, nothing else should really be a problem when they come back in 2010.

 

[JulyMorning]

I am an MS4, and I echo what everyone else has said. It's a great place, with a tight student body and great student affairs administration.

I will take a stab at interpreting the asterisk on the LCME link. I am pretty sure our school had a brief LCME visit recently, and I think this is what the asterisk refers to. (If you scroll to the bottom, you'll see it says that it means "Limited, focused survey.") I think this came about as result of the shenanigans going on down in Camden, hence the "focused" survey. In any case, they were satisfied with the changes in policy and administration, and kept full accreditation with NO LCME probation. (As another person mentioned, maybe in the other thread, other schools like GWU actually say "on probation.")

Since this was only a focused survey, the LCME still needs to do their regularly scheduled major site visit, which is planned for 2010. Right now, everyone from the administration to the faculty to even the students are preparing for this visit, and there is absolutely no reason to think that the LCME will do anything other than renew the existing full accreditation for five years. Really, the only problem at RWJMS was that Camden thing, and since they did a focused visit and were satisfied, nothing else should really be a problem when they come back in 2010.

I second everything stated above. LCME was quite happy with the changes in the oversight and administration of the school, and there are absolutely no reasons for the school not to be re-accredited during a regularly scheduled site visit.

 

[cpants]

I am a little sick of RWJ trying to divorce itself from the scandals and taking a holier-than-thou attitude, when in my opinion, the worst of the scandals occurred at RWJ. While NJMS and SOM have had plenty of corruption, at least the medical education has never been called into question. At RWJ a dean was actually inflating grades and making sure that failing students passed. Some of these students were already practicing medicine when the scandal broke. I'll take no-show jobs and medicare double-billing any day over something that puts patients at risk and calls into question my entire record as a medical student.

That said, the scandals are hopefully behind all of us UMDNJ students. The new administration has cleaned house, and the university is no longer under federal monitor. There are no current accreditation issues. All three schools are pretty well respected and provide an excellent education.

 

[CharmCityRunner]

At RWJ a dean was actually inflating grades and making sure that failing students passed.

When did that happen? I've lived in NJ most of my life and never heard of that, although I haven't been following very closely. Do you know where I could read about that? I'm considering going there in the fall.

I feel like most of the stuff I have heard about the scandals have been associated with the UMDNJ hospital in Newark, and only rarely is the medical school directly involved. For example, that thing with the cardiologists that was mentioned in an earlier post wasn't directly related to the med school. Scandal is never good, but unfortunately thats the way a lot of things are in NJ- there has been lots of political scandals for years.

Having interviewed at both NJMS and RWJ, I liked RWJ much better. I think they usually rank very close to each other though.

 

[cpants]

2007. From the Star Ledger:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/09/grades_reportedly_falsified_at.html

 

[FutureDoc4]

Well, as previously stated (I think 3x) we had an issue at the Camden campus, and it was taken care of. Dr. T is leading the Camden campus now and everyone seems to have great confidence in her. These issues are already 2-3 years past, so I don't think in any way they would affect anyone coming here.

Cpants you need to relax. We all know that the RWJ isn't splitting from the UMDNJ system anytime soon. Please don't try and be like "look their scandel is bigger than our scandel!" Each institution has had its bumps in the road.

Maybe the feelings between the two schools come from the fact that we each feel "responsible" for each others actions as being a reflection upon our own (in most ways) individual school. So any time any one of us scews up, (and when you have a big institition like UMDNJ, some one is bound to screw up), we feel like we are being blamed for it.

I do like what the UMDNJ system can offer in terms of intergratation of various schools and providers. I do wish they made more of an effort to let each of the schools get to know one another.