UMDNJ-SOM vs. NYCOM Please Help!!

[krackersmc]

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(I know other threads have been posted for the same concern, but most/all of them are from years ago. I would appreciate a current perspective, especially from a 3rd year or 4th year med student. Thank you all in advance.)

I am very excited to have been accepted at both UMDNJ-SOM and NYCOM, but cannot make the final decision--which I need to do VERY VERY soon. My dilemma in selecting the right school for ME, stems from the fact that I do not yet know whether I would like to enter primary care or if I would like to speciaize in medicine. So JUST TO BE SAFE, I would like to select a school that would make it easier for me to specialize, say in a competitive field like opthamology. Is it NYCOM or UMDNJ-SOM? 😕 Right now, I think a school with a well-rounded and balanced clinical year would be most appropriapte--and specialty friendly.

In this respect, UMDNJ-SOM already looks too primary care focused. (Please feel free to disagree). I mean third year at UMDNJ-SOM involves 12 weeks of family medicine! with only 6 weeks of surgery/anesthesia, compared to NYCOM having a more balanced 12 weeks of internal medicine with 12 weeks of surgery. Clearly, UMDNJ's 6 weeks of surgery seem way too low compared to NYCOM's 12 weeks and I wonder if this may hurt me in applying to a residency in a specialty, if residency programs consider the umdnj-som clinical years as not so well-rounded/balanced or competitive. Again, Please feel free to differ ...this is exactly the kind of info. I am looking for to make my final decision.

Also, with the same " what if I choose to specialize" concern, it seems that the large number of nycom hospital affiliations, compared to only 5 of umdnj-som would increase my probability of landing a residency for specializing (i.e in opthamology, otorhinolaryngology, or what not) more as a nycom student than as a umdnj-som student. Wouldn't you agree?

OTHER things on my mind:

*I am thinking that for the first two years, umdnj-som might be the better choice over nycom (if what I have read online about nycom's poor administration, and large failing % of students each year is to be believed.) I am ok with a competitive environmet (as supposedly of NYCOM), but would like a supportive one (as it seems of umdnj-som).

**Still, I like the fact that nycom has two standardized robots stan, and peda to practice clinical skills on, while umdnj-som didnt seem to mention anything about having a standardized robot--not having which may be an underservice to my education.

***But then again, umdnj-som is so much more affordable, the cost of tuition is very reasonable--which is one of the big reasons I am still attached to the umdnj-som. NYCOM's tuition is so high. so if I choose it I want to make sure it is well worth it over umdnj-som, (specifically, in terms of landing a residency in a competitive specialty.)

****Lasly, I like the fact, the that UMDNJ-som takes care of setting up your clinical rotations for you, while at NYCOM you will have to do that on your own--similar to other schools.


***Housing, and food are also factors. Of course, housing is much cheaper in stratford than in NY, but I am willing to make a big investment, if it will be worth it over the cheaper one. I am also not very fond of umdnj-som's lecture hall (shockigly small and dark), and its miniature library. Atleast with nycom, you can go to the nyit's library space. But I can compromise with room sizes if the education (both academic and clinical is good enough).

In summary (and more):

UMDNJ-SOM points:
1. Very Reasonable tuition (GREAT!👍)
2. Housing near-by school and affordable (GREAT..as I won't have a car👍)
3. First two years education (VERY GOOD)
4. Small Class size (neutral)
5. Small/Dark Lecture room size (Not good)
6. No class ranking, Honors/high pass/pass/fail system of grading (Neutal--Well, good b/c no competition, and more comraderie b/w students, not good if want to stand out to obtain competitive residency?)
7. classes from 9-5 everyday (Not so great 😴)
8. *Third year Clinical curriculum (??? in case of specializing...Please Help!)
9. Standardized Robotic patients (no? are there any?)
10. Hospital Affiliations (Five--Good)
11. They set up the Clinical Rotations for you (GREAT)
12. *Reputation (unknown..in case of specializing?)


NYCOM points:
1. Very High tuition (😱 👎)
2. Expensive housing, and not nearby 🙂( Is a car needed? b/c I won't have one)
3. First two years of education (questionable--Not good?)
4. Large class size (Neutral)
5. Lecture room size (Neutal)
6. Grading (not sure?)
7. classes from 9-2pm (not bad)
8. Clinical education (GREAT👍)
9. Two standarized robots: stan and peda (Great)
10. Hospital Affiliatons (Numerous--GREAT👍)
11. you set up your own clinical rotations (Neutral)
12. Reputation (GREAT..?yes?)


Of course, if I knew right now that I would want to go into primary care, then I would have picked umdnj-som immediately, the best choice for primary care for sure. But, I don't..and have an equal chance for wanting to specialize, so I just want to be prepared if I do decide on this latter option. Any help from you to pick the right school (if I were to decide on specializing) would be very very appreciated.

Again, thank you all, in advance.

 

[anthroguy]

I think UMDNJ and NYCOM both have solid reputations and are probably considered two of the best DO schools out there. Im a UMDNJ student so I'll sell it here because its all i know.

You correctly identify the 12 weeks of fam practice third year, but I don't think that will adversely effect you for surgery residencies. If you look at the match list, we had one neurosurgery, one ENT, one ortho and one general surgery match for a 90 person class. All in all 1/3 of the class goes into family practice, but I think a lot of this has to do with choice rather than ending up there (though if your grades and board scores are low that will be your only option wherever you go). The cheap tuition and generous scholarships here allow students to do what they want. Also, UMDNJ has its own ENT, urology, gen surg and ortho residencies in house, which is a huge leg up for you. The surgery club is very active and you will get to interact with Lourdes hospital in Camden and have your face seen.

In terms of the classroom, I agree its windowless and is dark while the lights are off during powerpoint presentations, but it's fine with the lights on and 2nd years are put in the plush auditorium.

Also, umdnj does not rank, but hte residency directors can get a good idea of your performance by your grades and board scores. Not having Honors determined by your performance vs the class allows everyone to focus on themselves.

Look at the match lists and take into account NYCOM starts with 2.5 times the number of students and using that factor see how they compare. Looking at the costs between both programs and their results in therms of residency placement will make this choice easier.

 

[docem]

I am a NYCOM student so I can't speak to UMDNJ
Just to clarify - my understanding is the we do not have to arrange our own third year rotations - a 2nd year can correct me if I am wrong. There are two options - regional where you spend the enitre 3rd year at one hospital or the other where you rotate at several hospitals which I think you have some input in again not 100% sure.

I really love NYCOM and I wouldn't believe everything you read about any school on SDN - know that everyone has their own unique experience. I don't find NYCOM to be particularly competitive. I think the students in general are pretty collaborative/supportive and there are certainly bugs to be worked out in the administration and new policies but it is not as bad as it seems online.

We have some really great faculty and great opportunities to rotate at hospitals throughout the city and long island.

As much as I love to promote NYCOM the money thing is a huge issue - I can tell you that the amount of debt for any private school (not just NYCOM ) is hard to swallow - If you think you would be happy at UMdNJ or any public institution the tuition is a big plus ---much less stress in the long run.

Ultimately I think that if you are a motivated hard working person you can't go wrong with either school.

 

[HunterGatherer]

I had to make this decision 1.5 years ago. The final decision came to keeping my family in NYC since my wife has a well paying job here and son started school here. If I was a single student I really do not see how I could pass up a savings of $80K+ in tuition seeing that 1 school is not far superior than the other. Some info you wanted to know about NYCOM:

grading. Things may change for your class so talking to other class of 2012 and 2011 NYCOM students will help flesh things out. Our curriculum is different from 2011 and I imagine the class of 2011 curriculum may be more similar to 2012 than my class (2010).

We have 2 programs. DPC (case based learning) and the Lecture based program. I can only speak for the lecture based program. The Lecture programs is systems based
Year 1:
Fundamentals
Musculoskeletal
Neuro
Heme/Onc/Immuno
Integumentary

Year 2
Ethics
Cardio/Pumonary
Endocrine
GastroIntest
Reproductive/Genitourinary

passing is 70%. honors goes to the top 10% of the class for each exam. Honors is usually 90%-97% but you really need to stay above 95% if you are shooting for honors. If you fail 1 system you are placed on academic probation and must remediate in the summer. There is a small fee for this. If you fail 2 courses in 1 academic year you are academically dismissed.

Each system has 1-2 OMM practicals and that is 20-30% of your total grade. I dont have a syllabus handy. If you want honors you will need to ace these as well. Passing is 70%.

Honors is given for the combined System. So all the exams (written and practicals and some announced quizzes for anatomy and OMM) are factored in.

I was told that for your dean's letter each year (1-3) is 25% of your rank. COMLEX 1 is another 25%. Class rank is not given out in percentages but they know what range you are in and convey this in the letter. Program Directors will know if you are Honors, near honors, etc. by this letter.

transportation
You will need a car since NYCOM is in the burbs and housing is not nearby. There is a bus that goes to NYCOM but it runs every 30min-1hour and the route is limited. Taking a cab to go 2 miles will cost $8 at least. you could get rides from a roommate or someone who lives nearby but walking to NYCOM on a regular from even the nearest apartment complex is not practical. Nassau County zoning law limits the amount of multi-family buildings but there are people who have short 10min commutes by car.

Setting up clinical rotations: Why would you want someone to do this for you? Wouldn't you want to be able to make your schedule/hospital choices cater to your own interests? If you want ObGyn dont you want to be able to pick the best OBgyn rotation in 3rd year? If you like a hospital because of their residencies maybe you want to do some rotations there?

class schedule
class is 9-5 when you start 1st year. When fundamentals and Anatomy is over then you should have some short 8am-12 days on a regular basis. 2nd year classes are 8am-12 3-4 times/week and longer 1-2 times/week.

time off after 2nd year
We get about 5-6 weeks off for boards. This is an important factor when comparing schools in my opinion.

NYCOM and UMDNJ are both solid schools. You will be successful graduating from either one if you put in the work.

NYCOM is specialty friendly. look at our match list from the last few years.

 

[J1515]

****Lasly, I like the fact, the that UMDNJ-som takes care of setting up your clinical rotations for you, while at NYCOM you will have to do that on your own--similar to other schools.

I'm not sure where you got this from, but NYCOM sets up all of your rotations for you during 3rd year. You can do them all at one hospital, you can do them at multiple hospitals in Queens and the Bronx, or you can do them at multiple hospitals all on Long Island. 4th year electives of course you can choose to do anywhere you wish.

 

[Lamborghini1315]

You serious? UMDNJ, don't think twice.

 

[Orthodoc40]

My dilemma in selecting the right school for ME, stems from the fact that I do not yet know whether I would like to enter primary care or if I would like to speciaize in medicine. So JUST TO BE SAFE, I would like to select a school that would make it easier for me to specialize, say in a competitive field like opthamology. Is it NYCOM or UMDNJ-SOM? 😕

You keep harping on this myth that one school is going to give you a better chance of specializing than another. How many people have to tell you that you'll be able to specialize wherever you go to school before you're comfortable with that?!

Find some UMDNJ Class Of threads and send some private messages to a few people that have been there for a while. Like Nate.
Try doing the same for some NYCOM people. Like HunterGatherer.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

This is the second time you have posted the same thing. Once here and once in Pre-Osteo. Choose a school and free up your space for someone who really wants it.

 

[anthroguy]

This is the second time you have posted the same thing. Once here and once in Pre-Osteo. Choose a school and free up your space for someone who really wants it.

Easy there, he posted on the same day, its not like he posted days after asking the same question. If anything, looking at the fact he's looking at the umdnj housing situation he's chosen. Choosing where you'll be for 4 years and dropping 150k, well 200k if nycom, isnt too easy, anyone who's gone through the process should know better.

 

[Taus]

go w/ the cheaper school....I'm very satisfied w/ my education in philly....but >200k in debt is hard to swallow

 

[DOctorJay]

+1
(what Taus said)

 

[lilzelda2]

+2

Tution increase by 6% this year, and everytime I look at my cum. loan amount I get a panic attack. Its a lot of freaken money.

Go where ever you think your going to be happy not only from a educational stand point but also a social one. Also you probably would need a car if you go to NYCOM. Life's hard in Long Island without a car.

 

[Lamborghini1315]

go w/ the cheaper school....I'm very satisfied w/ my education in philly....but >200k in debt is hard to swallow

I can't emphasize this point enough and UMDNJ is a fine school.

 

[Lamborghini1315]

+2

Tution increase by 6% this year, and everytime I look at my cum. loan amount I get a panic attack. Its a lot of freaken money.

Go where ever you think your going to be happy not only from a educational stand point but also a social one. Also you probably would need a car if you go to NYCOM. Life's hard in Long Island without a car.

First mets suck, second you are right the ridiculous tuition raise, cost of living in long island are just beyond the avg expenditure for medical schools around the country.

 

[lilzelda2]

First mets suck

I'mma knock you the $#@! out

 

[Porco Rosso]

umdnj has too many weeks of family medicine in the 3rd year. thus, people who wants to specialize do have to do little bit of battling to make things happen. its been that way for years.

 

[DOctorJay]

for what it's worth, whatever "battling" (I'm not even sure what that means in this context) we needed to do we obviously were able to get the specialty spots we wanted in this year's match (do a search).

the FP weeks in 3rd year are not entirely accurate - it looks like you spend a lot of time in FP but there is actually a portion of those weeks that is a course designed to help you learn more about yourself (this was actually very helpful with specialty selection) and how to work within an interdisciplinary group setting (i.e. the world of medicine). because the FP department runs this course, it is placed under their rotation. this portion of the rotation is simply information that the school feels will make us better prepared physicians and it seems to have always been placed in the FP rotation.

 

[joedo]

Aren't you forced to do most (if not all) of your rotations at UMDNJ at their hospitals? (Kennedy, Lourdes, Stratford)
Also, Stratford New Jersey SUCKS. Ugly strip mall land in the middle of nowhere.
At least NYCOM is 40 mins away from NYC.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

Aren't you forced to do most (if not all) of your rotations at UMDNJ at their hospitals? (Kennedy, Lourdes, Stratford)
Also, Stratford New Jersey SUCKS. Ugly strip mall land in the middle of nowhere.
At least NYCOM is 40 mins away from NYC.

No. The only rotation that you have no choice where you do it, is Geriatrics because we have the Institute for Successful Aging. Other than that, if you want to do the North Jersey Tract, you can do all of your rotations at Christ Hospital in Jersey City. However, if you prefer to do your rotations in another hospital, you need to contact the hospital and start the process and then bring the administration into it.

 

[DrWBD]

If I had to do it over again, I'd consider UMDNJ. While you'll get decent medical training at NYCOM, I sincerely feel that NYCOM's tuition increases are out of hand, considering the ridiculously large class size and overall quality of education. Having less debt down the road is always a good thing.

 

[krackersmc]

I am going to UMDNJ-SOM! 😍 It offeres a very competitive education at a very competitive price. No Brainer, huh😀?

Thank You ALL for your input!


(Made the final decision a while ago, sorry didn't post on here, until now.)

 

[krackersmc]

for what it's worth, whatever "battling" (I'm not even sure what that means in this context) we needed to do we obviously were able to get the specialty spots we wanted in this year's match (do a search).

the FP weeks in 3rd year are not entirely accurate - it looks like you spend a lot of time in FP but there is actually a portion of those weeks that is a course designed to help you learn more about yourself (this was actually very helpful with specialty selection) and how to work within an interdisciplinary group setting (i.e. the world of medicine). because the FP department runs this course, it is placed under their rotation. this portion of the rotation is simply information that the school feels will make us better prepared physicians and it seems to have always been placed in the FP rotation.

DOctorJay can you please elaborate a bit more on this. (i.e. exactly how many weeks of the 12 weeks is the course you mention, what kind of things/work do you do in this course to achieve its goal. etc.) Just curious...Thanks.

 

[DOctorJay]

i can't remember the schedule for sure but I think there was:

1 week dedicated to this course
2 weeks of community medicine - still considered part of "the course"
2 weeks of OMM
7 weeks true FP

I could be wrong but from memory this seems right

the course was called Cultural Competency and Interdisciplinary Skills in Healthcare Delivery, we had a standardized patient lab, myers briggs, roles and scope of practice, ethical issues, conflict management, cultural competency, palliative care

...this was how it was scheduled for my class, it could be different by the time you get to 3rd year

 

[krackersmc]

Thanks! UMDNJ-SOM should definitely post this info. somewhere on its website, I think this will make selecting the school even more easy for any applicant in a dilemma to make the final choice (or perhaps the initial choice)...