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One person has PMed me and another posted on the allo forum regarding one 3rd year's interview feedback on University of Michigan's medical school.
I'll respond to this while eating dinner, so I apoligize for typos....
First, I've posted the UM match lists for the past few years (back to 2000) online.....check out these two sites
http://www.umich.edu/~sundeeps/Match.txt
http://www.umich.edu/~sundeeps/2001Match.pdf
Match lists shouldn't be hidden, although I would warn you about interpretting them yourselves. I don't know how to neccessarily. Some lower ranked schools actually have really good departments in one or two areas, and some highly ranked ones have weak departments. It all depends on which field you want to go into in four years.
1) I'm a first year, so I can't offer you insight too much into 3rd year.
2) I am at the interview lunches on a pretty regular basis, and I can assure you that the entire class is emailed looking for people who are interested for that week. Only a dozen or so are allowed (limited food and space). Yes, we self-select (why would we promote the school if we hated it?) and it seems that the same faces show up reguarly. I know certain cultural organizations ask one of their people to be at every one of the lunches, but besides that, I have no clue why the same people show up. Two 2nd years run the deal. One is a Notre Dame grad and one Umich. There is no conspiracy invovling them. I won't divulge entire conversations, but trust me, there isn't one.
3) Before I came here, I met a doctor who did his undergrad, med school, and residency (derm) here, while living in Atlanta. He used to be a professor at Emory I think before he went into private practice. Anyways, what he told me is, "Michigan isn't an easy place. I've been around, and you could have gone to a lot of easier medical schools. However, when you get out, you'll be well trained." You can do a search on SDN for Umich, and you'll find people saying that doctors at UCSF like UM grads and things like that. From what I understand (and what I tell interviewees) is that if you want a cush 3 year go to some other place (rumor is Penn students don't take call). If you don't mind getting pushed to your limit to be the best you can, you'll like it here. Michigan kids don't match well because they just ride the UM name out, but because program directors know that UM kids are well trained and prepared for whatever.
4) I don't have too large of a sample size, but I know one fourth year who is considering a very competitive field who said, "If you work hard during your rotation, they'll write you a good recommendaiton, and then you're set." Take it for what you want.
5) Side note: ~50% of our classes are instate. Much like many out of staters who want to return home eventually, I would expect that half the kids stay at Michigan for their residency because they want to (is there a better med school in Michgian? or even this part of the country?) My class is also very biased to people from Califronia, NY, and the midwest. There are 6 of us who are from below the Mason-Dixie Line in my class, expect a proportionate number of matches in those areas.
6) Don't come here just for rank. Listen to the guy's advise. There's more to life than rank.
7) Clinical grading at every school is subjective. You should be aware of that. Some departments having interesting algorithms, others are back of the envelope. Will you be working your rear end off for a pass. I dunno. It is worth noting though, that it doesn't look good if you fail, and more importantly, they can't have too many people repeating rotations. They don't want too many med students in the hospital at the same time (which is why the 2nd years are going to get 2 months off their clinicals so we can extend ours by 2 months). Think about it. Will most get Pass. I assume so. Shouldn't they? I forget their grading scheme. Let's assume it is High Pass, and honors. Very few people should get honors, and somewhere in between high pass. When your dean's letter goes out, they mail a copy of grade distributions (we don't have class rank) for each class you take, so schools know what getting an honors here means. If you want Honors in everything (which I'm sure everyone does), they could do that too without any problem, but the grade distriubtion would show 100% for honors. FYI that's called grade inflation. I don't know how hard it is at other schools, but remember, the distributions or class rank get sent out, so it all equalizes. Some lower ranked schools may grade inflate to match people in better places, but I think that may end up backfiring when people realize the grades don't indicate much.
8) Another FYI, no matter where you go, you'll be stupid 3rd year. think about the vast body of knowledge that medicine is, and how many of the attendings have spent 40 years working in one area, while you spent 2 weeks on it during the first two years of med school. To say you know a lot would be stupid. Will you look bad? As most 3rd and 4th years have said, "the attendings expect more out of you as time progresses." So if you do a rotation at the start of 3rd year, you'll be expected to know less than at the end of 4th year. Make sense? I hope so, since you should be learning things........
I think the guy sounds bitter who posted the interview feedback..........don't let it stress ya'll out. By the way, I'm out of state, and happy enough to try to convince one of my best friends to come here next year since he has been accepted.
If you have any questions..........feel free to PM or post...........Time to study............
By the way, this are all my free thoughts, in no way affilliated with UM, UMMS, or any organization besides the entity called Sunny.
I'll respond to this while eating dinner, so I apoligize for typos....
First, I've posted the UM match lists for the past few years (back to 2000) online.....check out these two sites
http://www.umich.edu/~sundeeps/Match.txt
http://www.umich.edu/~sundeeps/2001Match.pdf
Match lists shouldn't be hidden, although I would warn you about interpretting them yourselves. I don't know how to neccessarily. Some lower ranked schools actually have really good departments in one or two areas, and some highly ranked ones have weak departments. It all depends on which field you want to go into in four years.
1) I'm a first year, so I can't offer you insight too much into 3rd year.
2) I am at the interview lunches on a pretty regular basis, and I can assure you that the entire class is emailed looking for people who are interested for that week. Only a dozen or so are allowed (limited food and space). Yes, we self-select (why would we promote the school if we hated it?) and it seems that the same faces show up reguarly. I know certain cultural organizations ask one of their people to be at every one of the lunches, but besides that, I have no clue why the same people show up. Two 2nd years run the deal. One is a Notre Dame grad and one Umich. There is no conspiracy invovling them. I won't divulge entire conversations, but trust me, there isn't one.
3) Before I came here, I met a doctor who did his undergrad, med school, and residency (derm) here, while living in Atlanta. He used to be a professor at Emory I think before he went into private practice. Anyways, what he told me is, "Michigan isn't an easy place. I've been around, and you could have gone to a lot of easier medical schools. However, when you get out, you'll be well trained." You can do a search on SDN for Umich, and you'll find people saying that doctors at UCSF like UM grads and things like that. From what I understand (and what I tell interviewees) is that if you want a cush 3 year go to some other place (rumor is Penn students don't take call). If you don't mind getting pushed to your limit to be the best you can, you'll like it here. Michigan kids don't match well because they just ride the UM name out, but because program directors know that UM kids are well trained and prepared for whatever.
4) I don't have too large of a sample size, but I know one fourth year who is considering a very competitive field who said, "If you work hard during your rotation, they'll write you a good recommendaiton, and then you're set." Take it for what you want.
5) Side note: ~50% of our classes are instate. Much like many out of staters who want to return home eventually, I would expect that half the kids stay at Michigan for their residency because they want to (is there a better med school in Michgian? or even this part of the country?) My class is also very biased to people from Califronia, NY, and the midwest. There are 6 of us who are from below the Mason-Dixie Line in my class, expect a proportionate number of matches in those areas.
6) Don't come here just for rank. Listen to the guy's advise. There's more to life than rank.
7) Clinical grading at every school is subjective. You should be aware of that. Some departments having interesting algorithms, others are back of the envelope. Will you be working your rear end off for a pass. I dunno. It is worth noting though, that it doesn't look good if you fail, and more importantly, they can't have too many people repeating rotations. They don't want too many med students in the hospital at the same time (which is why the 2nd years are going to get 2 months off their clinicals so we can extend ours by 2 months). Think about it. Will most get Pass. I assume so. Shouldn't they? I forget their grading scheme. Let's assume it is High Pass, and honors. Very few people should get honors, and somewhere in between high pass. When your dean's letter goes out, they mail a copy of grade distributions (we don't have class rank) for each class you take, so schools know what getting an honors here means. If you want Honors in everything (which I'm sure everyone does), they could do that too without any problem, but the grade distriubtion would show 100% for honors. FYI that's called grade inflation. I don't know how hard it is at other schools, but remember, the distributions or class rank get sent out, so it all equalizes. Some lower ranked schools may grade inflate to match people in better places, but I think that may end up backfiring when people realize the grades don't indicate much.
8) Another FYI, no matter where you go, you'll be stupid 3rd year. think about the vast body of knowledge that medicine is, and how many of the attendings have spent 40 years working in one area, while you spent 2 weeks on it during the first two years of med school. To say you know a lot would be stupid. Will you look bad? As most 3rd and 4th years have said, "the attendings expect more out of you as time progresses." So if you do a rotation at the start of 3rd year, you'll be expected to know less than at the end of 4th year. Make sense? I hope so, since you should be learning things........
I think the guy sounds bitter who posted the interview feedback..........don't let it stress ya'll out. By the way, I'm out of state, and happy enough to try to convince one of my best friends to come here next year since he has been accepted.
If you have any questions..........feel free to PM or post...........Time to study............
By the way, this are all my free thoughts, in no way affilliated with UM, UMMS, or any organization besides the entity called Sunny.
