ummm.... what are my chances?

[Thundrstorm]

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I know; I know. Sorry to do this; I’m not looking for an ego boost (or unnecessary cruelty), just some objective opinions. I have my heart set on MD/PhD, but am I crazy to think I’ll get in somewhere? Here are my stats; feel free to ask questions. I’m getting my list of schools together now, so if you want to make any suggestions, please do. I’m interested in staying in a major city, mostly looking at the east coast.

GPA and BCPM: both ~ 3.5
Biochemistry major
Small liberal arts school; well known in New England, but maybe not elsewhere.
MCAT: 30Q (8PS, 10BS, 12VR) (also took it in 2003 and got a 25Q…hoping that doesn’t matter too much, considering the 30 is from April ’05 and I went up in every section).
Research: 1 semester of physics, 1 summer of organismal bio, 1 summer on malaria at a top 5 public health school, 5 semesters (so just over 2 years) of stem cell research at my college and a nearby hospital, with the final year being an independent project. No pubs, but I’ve presented at symposiums, and at a regional conference, and I wrote an undergraduate thesis.
ECs: extensive volunteering, though mostly non-clinical, employment throughout college (mostly tutoring), several leadership roles, honors program, departmental and community service awards, etc.
Research interest: infectious diseases
URM
Female
MD resident
Traditional applicant (just graduated; I’m 22)

Thanks in advance for any helpful comments. 🙂

 

[Sonya]

I know; I know. Sorry to do this; I’m not looking for an ego boost (or unnecessary cruelty), just some objective opinions. I have my heart set on MD/PhD, but am I crazy to think I’ll get in somewhere? Here are my stats; feel free to ask questions. I’m getting my list of schools together now, so if you want to make any suggestions, please do. I’m interested in staying in a major city, mostly looking at the east coast.

GPA and BCPM: both ~ 3.5
Biochemistry major
Small liberal arts school; well known in New England, but maybe not elsewhere.
MCAT: 30Q (8PS, 10BS, 12VR) (also took it in 2003 and got a 25Q…hoping that doesn’t matter too much, considering the 30 is from April ’05 and I went up in every section).
Research: 1 semester of physics, 1 summer of organismal bio, 1 summer on malaria at a top 5 public health school, 5 semesters (so just over 2 years) of stem cell research at my college and a nearby hospital, with the final year being an independent project. No pubs, but I’ve presented at symposiums, and at a regional conference, and I wrote an undergraduate thesis.
ECs: extensive volunteering, though mostly non-clinical, employment throughout college (mostly tutoring), several leadership roles, honors program, departmental and community service awards, etc.
Research interest: infectious diseases
URM
Female
MD resident
Traditional applicant (just graduated; I’m 22)

Thanks in advance for any helpful comments. 🙂

I think it'll depend a lot on your research ref letters... well apply to a variety of schools (I seriously mean, top to bottom)... your ECs are good. very few ppl have pubs, in fact, probably few have presented their research outside their own lab/department.

Think of what you want to do as a backup for not getting in? PhD? (then also apply to gradschool). MD? (well, your app will usu be considered at MD if rejected, so your cool). Work for a few years and then apply for MD PhD (not a bad option at all, look for jobs when you get time.... that can.. totally help you, because, for MD PHD, i see your research experience as your lagging suite... i think one or two research position on one or two projects would've been better).

well, hope this helped.....

 

[PTPoeny]

My gpa is around 3.5 both BCPM and overall, I had one semester of bio research and 2 years of physics research. Your EC's are a little stronger than mine.

Your research sounds solid. I would say apply to lots of schools, get your application in now and write your PS to include your dedication to MD/PhD. I would definitely apply to your state school and to the state school in the state you are going to school. I would definitely apply this year, if you don't get in, you will probably have some program directors willing to give you feedback on what you should improve.

Personally I would start volunteering clinically right now. That way by the time you're interviewing you will be able to discuss your experiences. Another thing, is don't panic if you don't get any of the real early interviews. A lot of the schools I interviewed at MD/PhD only have a certain number of days they interview MD/Phd and they start later than the MD interviews. My experience is that MD/PhD programs are looking much more at your entire package as a potential researcher than just numbers. PM me if you have any other questions about my experience.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

You appear to be a well rounded applicant. In terms of the research, adcoms will likely focus on your longest research experience--the semester of research and the summer research projects will probably not make much of an impression compared to your longer 2 year research experience in the stem cell lab. This is because you are likely to have been more intellectually involved in the research projects during this experience. This is evidenced by the fact that during the last year in that lab, you had an independent project. Hence, it will be very important that you demonstrate a strong fundamental knowledge regarding the background, hypotheses, experimental design, and scrutiny/implications of your results. You will have plenty of chances to do so, not only in your essays, but more importantly when you communicate this during your interviews.

GPA and MCAT is lower than what you typically see in MD/PhD applicants. Many applicants who end up at top MSTP programs will have 3.8 to 4.0 GPAs, above 35 MCAT, in addition to having 2 or more years of research experience in a single lab (continuity is very important). Hence, do not be surprised if you are not granted interviews from some of the top tier institutions. Like previous posters stated, apply broadly. Be cognizant as to programs where you have a reasonable chance in getting in as well as your "reach/dream" programs. You never know...given some of the randomness in this process, it is a possibility that you end up at one of the reach/dream programs.

As for clinical volunteer experience...given your record already, the time investment to start up this kind of activity will reap limited rewards. The fact that you volunteered at a hospital will not make or break your application at this point--remember, you're applying to MD/PhD programs...they care mainly about your research experience and your ability to think as a scientist. Plus, you have plenty of volunteer and community experience already, it seems. So I think you're fine there.

Oh, and I hate to step on toes or burst anyone's bubbles here...but given the make up of MD/PhD application pools and many PD's desires to keep their MD/PhD programs more heterogeneous these days, the fact that you are an URM and female will definitely help you. The majority of applicants to MD/PhD programs these days are white or asian (i.e., south asian or oriental) MALES!

Other than that, all I can say is apply, put your best foot forward, and hope for the best.

 

[Thundrstorm]

Thanks for the feedback. To address a few of the comments:

1. LORs. I'm as certain as I can be w/o actually reading them that they're very strong. Most of the people I've asked to write letters have written some for me for other things (internships) and they've told me they were very strong. The person composing my committee letter was my advisor, professor, and research supervisor for the stem cell lab and she told me she compared my lab skills to that of a grad student, so I think her letter will be very positive.

2. Clinical volunteering. I'm searching like crazy for a position to start immediately, but I'm having trouble. I'm limited due to transportation issues, and the places I've called so far haven't been receptive to volunteers or shadowing. I'm looking into volunteering at a nearby hospice, but due to their training schedule, I'd have to wait until August, so hopefully, I'll work that out soon.

3. Research. For that 2 year project, I know it top to bottom. I did everything myself for atleast the past year, and I can explain the reasoning behind every step, so if I do get to the interview stage, I'm confident that I can talk about it intelligently.

It's such a struggle to decide my final list of schools. I'm thinking of applying to about 15... how many of those should be "reach" schools?

 

[tedrik]

It's such a struggle to decide my final list of schools. I'm thinking of applying to about 15... how many of those should be "reach" schools?

I'd say that things look pretty good for you right now. Your numbers aren't bad, but they will probably be at the lower end of the spectrum relative to the other MD/PhD applicants. This really seems like the only major problem with your application. I'm sure that the majority of schools will look past your numbers and see that you have a lot of research experience.

Almost everybody looks back and thinks they applied to too many schools with their primary application. I think that you will probably perform better in this process than you think, but of course there is no guarantee of that. 15 is a big enough number that you can include a variety of schools, but 10 or below would be pushing it. A good idea is to just apply to a lot of schools in your primary and then wait until you see the secondaries before making more cuts. Last year, I remember spending 15-30 minutes on some secondaries (by reusing essays) while others took several days to complete. I didn't return secondaries to several schools in my "maybe" category just because their application would have taken way too much time.

IMO, the vast majority of schools will look past your okay numbers and see that you are very dedicated to research and that your advisors have seen great potential in you. Starting your clinical volunteering ASAP would be icing on the cake and will be very useful as a discussion topic during your MD interviews.

Keep us updated. Good luck!!

 

[Thundrstorm]

Thanks Tedrik... I've just finalized my list of schools (I think) and I have 17, 2 of which I'm iffy on and will probably reassess based on the secondaries I receive.

 

[paramus]

Thanks Tedrik... I've just finalized my list of schools (I think) and I have 17, 2 of which I'm iffy on and will probably reassess based on the secondaries I receive.

17 is a good number, but I think more is just about always better if you have the time and money to do it. This is pretty irrelevant since you've already finalized your list, but if I had it to do over again, I would go with a lot more good-for-what-you-want-but-not-name schools. The competition won't be quite as fierce, and you'll still get an excellent education.

As far as your research experience, I think you'll be fine. It's all about how you present what you've done. If you can find any points of continuity between your longer project and the shorter ones, I think that would help the smaller projects help you - not in the sense that the projects would actually be directly related, but rather in the sense that you could say, "I learned X in my shorter project that helped me as a researcher when I got to my longer project."

 

[tedrik]

Thanks Tedrik... I've just finalized my list of schools (I think) and I have 17, 2 of which I'm iffy on and will probably reassess based on the secondaries I receive.

17 sounds fine. Some might even say that 17 is too much, but I agree with paramus that if you can find a bunch of schools that you like and you are unsure of where you stand, then just pay the extra money and apply everywhere.

I'll just mention one more thing about my experience with choosing schools. I really regret not looking more into each school individually. I basically chose based on the schools reputation for neuroscience and then general reputation of the school. I didn't pay enough attention to location or the number of researchers that actually worked in areas that interested me. Having such a wide variety of lab experience, you sound like you have a good idea about the type of research that you want to do and you also have a preference for the northeast. If you try not to make my mistake and spend a little time looking into each school in depth, you will probably be able to eliminate/add a few schools.

 

[imsotired]

I know; I know. Sorry to do this; I’m not looking for an ego boost (or unnecessary cruelty), just some objective opinions. I have my heart set on MD/PhD, but am I crazy to think I’ll get in somewhere? Here are my stats; feel free to ask questions. I’m getting my list of schools together now, so if you want to make any suggestions, please do. I’m interested in staying in a major city, mostly looking at the east coast.

GPA and BCPM: both ~ 3.5
Biochemistry major
Small liberal arts school; well known in New England, but maybe not elsewhere.
MCAT: 30Q (8PS, 10BS, 12VR) (also took it in 2003 and got a 25Q…hoping that doesn’t matter too much, considering the 30 is from April ’05 and I went up in every section).
Research: 1 semester of physics, 1 summer of organismal bio, 1 summer on malaria at a top 5 public health school, 5 semesters (so just over 2 years) of stem cell research at my college and a nearby hospital, with the final year being an independent project. No pubs, but I’ve presented at symposiums, and at a regional conference, and I wrote an undergraduate thesis.
ECs: extensive volunteering, though mostly non-clinical, employment throughout college (mostly tutoring), several leadership roles, honors program, departmental and community service awards, etc.
Research interest: infectious diseases
URM
Female
MD resident
Traditional applicant (just graduated; I’m 22)

Thanks in advance for any helpful comments. 🙂

Hey Thundrstorm. I'm also applying to MD/PhD programs this year and am interested in infectious diseases. I have already applied to my list of schools, but I am curious as to how you decided on your list based on your research interests. Do you mind sharing? You can PM if you want. Thanks!!

 

[Thundrstorm]

I thought I had my list, but now I'm confused again. I'm still in the process of looking at the websites for each of these schools to see if the research options are a good fit for me, but these are 20 schools that interest me for various reasons. My major struggle right now is finding lower-tier schools in the cities that I want to live in. I feel like I have too many "reach" schools (1/2 of my list) and need to narrow them down. I've added a couple of lower-tier schools with less than optimal locations (RF, NYMC) to try to balance it out.

Which schools would you remove/add from the following list? Are any of my dream schools big number ******? Well, I know Harvard is, but I'm applying there for personal reasons.


Places I think I'll have a shot:
University of MD (my state school)
George Washington
NYMC
Temple
Drexel
Rosalind Franklin (just added this one... still not sure about it)
Jefferson
BU
Tufts
UIC

Reach/Dream Schools:
Mt. Sinai
Einstein
Georgetown
NYU
U. Chicago/Pritzer
Harvard
Emory
Columbia
Northwestern
Cornell (considering dropping this one b/c it's all PBL, which I think I may not like).

Suggestions?

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Suggestions?

Apply.

 

[imsotired]

I thought I had my list, but now I'm confused again. I'm still in the process of looking at the websites for each of these schools to see if the research options are a good fit for me, but these are 20 schools that interest me for various reasons. My major struggle right now is finding lower-tier schools in the cities that I want to live in. I feel like I have too many "reach" schools (1/2 of my list) and need to narrow them down. I've added a couple of lower-tier schools with less than optimal locations (RF, NYMC) to try to balance it out.

Which schools would you remove/add from the following list? Are any of my dream schools big number ******? Well, I know Harvard is, but I'm applying there for personal reasons.


Places I think I'll have a shot:
University of MD (my state school)
George Washington
NYMC
Temple
Drexel
Rosalind Franklin (just added this one... still not sure about it)
Jefferson
BU
Tufts
UIC

Reach/Dream Schools:
Mt. Sinai
Einstein
Georgetown
NYU
U. Chicago/Pritzer
Harvard
Emory
Columbia
Northwestern
Cornell (considering dropping this one b/c it's all PBL, which I think I may not like).

Suggestions?

I am applying to 13 out of the 20 schools on your list. In addition, I'm applying to UTMB, UT Houston, UT Southwestern (I'm a TX resident), U Pitt, and U Wash. I'm also applying to straight MD programs. I also feel like I may have too many reach schools, but I don't want to apply to places I don't want to go to in the end. I don't think Einstein and NYU are out of reach for you (maybe even MSSM), but I'm certainly not the expert. I don't think you should drop any of the schools on your list. Anyways, good luck to us both!!!

 

[Thundrstorm]

Apply.

😀

I plan to this weekend. I'm doing a final polish of my essays.

 

[Thundrstorm]

I am applying to 13 out of the 20 schools on your list. In addition, I'm applying to UTMB, UT Houston, UT Southwestern (I'm a TX resident), U Pitt, and U Wash. I'm also applying to straight MD programs. I also feel like I may have too many reach schools, but I don't want to apply to places I don't want to go to in the end. I don't think Einstein and NYU are out of reach for you (maybe even MSSM), but I'm certainly not the expert. I don't think you should drop any of the schools on your list. Anyways, good luck to us both!!!

Thanks, good luck to you too.

 

[EvoDevo]

I thought I had my list, but now I'm confused again. I'm still in the process of looking at the websites for each of these schools to see if the research options are a good fit for me, but these are 20 schools that interest me for various reasons. My major struggle right now is finding lower-tier schools in the cities that I want to live in. I feel like I have too many "reach" schools (1/2 of my list) and need to narrow them down. I've added a couple of lower-tier schools with less than optimal locations (RF, NYMC) to try to balance it out.

Which schools would you remove/add from the following list? Are any of my dream schools big number ******? Well, I know Harvard is, but I'm applying there for personal reasons.


Places I think I'll have a shot:
University of MD (my state school)
George Washington
NYMC
Temple
Drexel
Rosalind Franklin (just added this one... still not sure about it)
Jefferson
BU
Tufts
UIC

Reach/Dream Schools:
Mt. Sinai
Einstein
Georgetown
NYU
U. Chicago/Pritzer
Harvard
Emory
Columbia
Northwestern
Cornell (considering dropping this one b/c it's all PBL, which I think I may not like).

Suggestions?

Hey Thundr:

Try applying to the UT Southwestern program in Dallas (tis an MSTP proggy). It's got pretty damn good research and the cost of living:stipend ratio is also excellent. Also look at Baylor: They have some outstanding and vibrant programs (developmental bio) though some of their programs are weak.

If you're thinking of non-MSTP proggies, I'd also encourage you to think about the UT-Houston program. Definintely not top tier but not bad either. It might make a nice backup fer ya. PM me if you need any details.

*edit* AFAIK, none of the schools I mentioned had a preference for in-state applicants. Even the state schools. 👍

 

[tedrik]

Suggestions?

Your list seems fine and that "reach" list is anything but...okay, maybe the Big H. I might cut out a coule of schools on your list, but like I said before, that can be done during your secondaries. I would add UPitt though, unless there is a location issue.

 

[OddNath]

Your list looks good, and as EvoDevo said, you don't need to worry about any doors being closed to you if you're out-of-state, tuition-wise or with the application. I also encourage applying to UT-Houston 🙂

My gpa was definitely lower than yours (though more research) and everything worked out, so just put those applications out there and you should be fine. I personally wouldn't bother with applying anywhere MD-only (I ended up getting some MD-only acceptances anyways).

Good luck!

 

[grendel]

Hi all. Don't mean to hijack this thread, but everyone's so helpful. I just joined after someone suggested I check out SDN, and I'm wondering if you guys can subject me to an evaluation as well. I'm going through waves of optimism and despair as I read postings and look over my own application. A little background: I'm 32, male, Pacific Islander, and worked a lot between undergrad and my master's program. I've worked in an academic lab, and a couple of biotech companies. Currently I work at Sloan-Kettering doing translational research, which will eventually lead to clinical trials later this year. I have a publication, several poster presentations, my master's thesis, as well as a publication to be submitted from my current work, in which I'll be co-first author. As an undergrad, I worked as a phelebotomist at an acute care hospital, I was in the Army Reserves as a medical lab specialist, and I have a couple of significant community volunteer experiences. My work has guided me towards med school, although later than a lot of applicants, and my recent work has solidified my resolve to pursue a career in academic medicine and hopefully obtain an MD/PhD. The thing is that my undergrad GPA is terrible: started at a JC, went to a UC and ended with a 3.0. Back then my aspirations were to just be a pair of hands in a biotech company. Over time I decided I wouldn't be satisfied unless I did more, obtained a master's and maintained a 4.0 with a scholarship and a couple of fellowships. MCAT: 33R. I applied to 20 schools (UC's, NY, Phillie, Chicago, Boston, etc)- the wide net people speak of. I claimed myself as a Cali resident, although I moved to NY recently (long story). Sooooo, do I have a snowball's chance in hell or is there hope? I really, really, really want to do this, age (but I still get carded!) and such be damned and I believe strongly that I will make an excellent physician-scientist.

 

[tedrik]

Sooooo, do I have a snowball's chance in hell or is there hope? I really, really, really want to do this, age (but I still get carded!) and such be damned and I believe strongly that I will make an excellent physician-scientist.

Some of the more experienced people on this forum will be able to give you better advice, but here's my 2 cents.

The few non-traditional applicants that I have known did very well in the application process. No one can doubt your determination or maturity towards the decision to enter an MSTP, so the only question is whether or not you can handle it. You have much more research experience than the average applicant and it seems like your work has been very significant. You're currently at a great institution and a primary authorship will prove your contributions to the work. You will have lots of essays coming your way in which you can explain how you came to this decision and what brought you here. Make sure you do a good job of explaining why you originally wanted to go into industry, why this lead to your relatively low gpa also and you should perform well in the process.

Again, I've only known a few applicants that didn't apply through the typical route, so take it with a grain of salt. If I were applying now though, I wouldn't want to interview on the same day as you!

Good Luck!!

 

[Thundrstorm]

I just submitted. 😱 My final list had 19 schools. I still have to submit 7 of them... once I get paid next week. I guess the process has now officially begun.

 

[EvoDevo]

I just submitted. 😱 My final list had 19 schools. I still have to submit 7 of them... once I get paid next week. I guess the process has now officially begun.

So did your list stay the same, Thundr?

 

[1Path]

If you try not to make my mistake and spend a little time looking into each school in depth, you will probably be able to eliminate/add a few schools.

I have to agree with this especially as a fellow URM. With your "numbers" and URM status, I really don't think you'll have a problem getting to the interview stage. In fact, every URM MD/PhD and MD/PhD student I know personally, only applied to betwen 5 - 10 schools, focusing on those that "recrutied" them from the Med-Mar list.

Good luck!

 

[Thundrstorm]

So did your list stay the same, Thundr?

Yes, except that I removed NYMC when I realized that MD/PhD there wasn't a fully funded, or organized, program.

 

[EvoDevo]

Yes, except that I removed NYMC when I realized that MD/PhD there wasn't a fully funded, or organized, program.

Cool. Good luck. 🙂

 

[Thundrstorm]

Cool. Good luck. 🙂

Thanks Evo. I’ll keep you posted. 😀

 

[Scottish Chap]

I know; I know. Sorry to do this; I’m not looking for an ego boost (or unnecessary cruelty), just some objective opinions. I have my heart set on MD/PhD, but am I crazy to think I’ll get in somewhere? Here are my stats; feel free to ask questions. I’m getting my list of schools together now, so if you want to make any suggestions, please do. I’m interested in staying in a major city, mostly looking at the east coast.

GPA and BCPM: both ~ 3.5
Biochemistry major
Small liberal arts school; well known in New England, but maybe not elsewhere.
MCAT: 30Q (8PS, 10BS, 12VR) (also took it in 2003 and got a 25Q…hoping that doesn’t matter too much, considering the 30 is from April ’05 and I went up in every section).
Research: 1 semester of physics, 1 summer of organismal bio, 1 summer on malaria at a top 5 public health school, 5 semesters (so just over 2 years) of stem cell research at my college and a nearby hospital, with the final year being an independent project. No pubs, but I’ve presented at symposiums, and at a regional conference, and I wrote an undergraduate thesis.
ECs: extensive volunteering, though mostly non-clinical, employment throughout college (mostly tutoring), several leadership roles, honors program, departmental and community service awards, etc.
Research interest: infectious diseases
URM
Female
MD resident
Traditional applicant (just graduated; I’m 22)

Thanks in advance for any helpful comments. 🙂

The PS section may hinder you a little for MD/PhD. It's not impossible, but I think it'll be tough for the top, 'fully-funded' programs; that is, I think you can definitely get into a program but it may not pay stipend during the M.D. program. I would definitely add SUNY Upstate MD/PhD to your list.

 

[Habari]

Cornell (considering dropping this one b/c it's all PBL, which I think I may not like).

just a note - it isn't 'all pbl'. it has essentially the same curriculum as harvard and rochester (same course names, and some identical course material) and a similar curriculum to northwestern but if you're strongly pbl averse, then i'd drop those schools as well, as they have the same percentage representation in their respective curriculums. not quite sure how cornell so grossly misbranded their curriculum as 'all pbl', but it seems to be the general perception.

 

[Thundrstorm]

just a note - it isn't 'all pbl'. it has essentially the same curriculum as harvard and rochester (same course names, and some identical course material) and a similar curriculum to northwestern but if you're strongly pbl averse, then i'd drop those schools as well, as they have the same percentage representation in their respective curriculums. not quite sure how cornell so grossly misbranded their curriculum as 'all pbl', but it seems to be the general perception.

Thanks for helping to clear that up. It seems like they market their PBl curriculum more strongly than the others.