UNDECIDED!! Master mental health counceling or Psy.D

[Piero]

hello there
here is a little about my background
I have a bachelors in psychology from Florida International University.
I have a 3.99 GPA
1 year research experience
GRE scores - 590 verbal
650 math total: 1240
4.5 writing

no clinical experience.

My goal is to get eventually into a clinical program, I'm more into the clinical hands on therapy than the research Ph.D, but wouldnt mind getting accepted into one.

I have been accepted to start the Psy.D program at Carlos albizu university, its not a well known university, but is fully acredited

I have also been accepted to do a masters in mental health counceling at florida international university this fall.

HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS
amount of time invested is not an issue, I am 24.
1) should I do a Masters in mental health counseling first, get clinical experience, and then apply for a Ph.D or Psy.D programs later on in more prestigious universities? (wouldnt mind investing the 2 extra years if it will help me)

2) should I just go ahead and start my Psy.D program at Carlos albizu, and focus on that. even though they are fully acredited, carlos albizu university does not require GRE scores, or research experience to get in, and I want to secure me a Job if i graduate from here, because the loans are incredible... we are talking 100,000$$

3) should I retake the GRE? and look for better schools?

I hear Psy.D programs are really good and will fulfill my needs to do clinical work and have my own practice and do consulting work... so should I just do my Psy.D at Carlos Albizu? if its fully accredited...

I want to become a great psychologist and help people to improve the quality of their lives, and get paid. I want to be recognized and mainly work with people, but wouldnt mind getting a Ph.D because of the weight of it.

thanks a lot guys please help me clarify my doubts

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[deleted176373]

hello there
My goal is to get eventually into a clinical program, I'm more into the clinical hands on therapy than the research Ph.D, but wouldnt mind getting accepted into one.

HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS
amount of time invested is not an issue, I am 24.
1) should I do a Masters in mental health counseling first, get clinical experience, and then apply for a Ph.D or Psy.D programs later on in more prestigious universities? (wouldnt mind investing the 2 extra years if it will help me)

No, this won't really be the ticket, unless you lack research experience. Research experience is key for a Ph.D. program, Psy.D. programs tend to prefer more clinical experience... however there are exceptions to the general rule. With your High GPA a masters program can't really help you other than research and you would be better off with a paid research experience and no risk to that GPA.

2) should I just go ahead and start my Psy.D program at Carlos albizu, and focus on that. even though they are fully acredited, carlos albizu university does not require GRE scores, or research experience to get in, and I want to secure me a Job if i graduate from here, because the loans are incredible... we are talking 100,000$$

You're scores are high enough that you should be considering more prestigious programs. Carlos Albizu's relatively poor 61% match rate tells you all you need to know... You may not be getting your money's worth considering that you have good admission stats. To put that in perspective, that puts it about averge for the professional schools but well below the overall mean of 75%.

Personally, I'd hold out for a better deal.

3) should I retake the GRE? and look for better schools?

If you really believe you can score 60 or more points higher, yes, a 1300+ GRE score will open a few more doors... If you can get 160 points higher a 1400+ GRE will definitely make a difference.

I hear Psy.D programs are really good and will fulfill my needs to do clinical work and have my own practice and do consulting work... so should I just do my Psy.D at Carlos Albizu? if its fully accredited...

It's not that they are good or bad, they are just different than a Ph.D. program. The focus and orientation of the programs are different. In many ways, it's a different way to get to the same place. In some ways the Ph.D. has an advantage in academic settings.

I want to become a great psychologist and help people to improve the quality of their lives, and get paid. I want to be recognized and mainly work with people, but wouldnt mind getting a Ph.D because of the weight of it.

Great psychologists are not defined by the school they went to, the degree they sought, or anything else that can be labeled as a single tipping point. You will either be one because you have the inate ability and the drive to become one, or you won't. Having the desire is a major component though. While great schools and great experiences provide an advantage, I don't think they in and of themselves are the decisive factor.

Mark

 

[KillerDiller]

As you have noted, one of the biggest drawback to schools like Carlos Albizu is the money you have to shell out to attend. Psychologists don't often make as much as doctors or lawyers, for example. Thus, six figures of debt is a substantial drain on your resources.

Accreditation is important, but it's definitely not the only benchmark to look at when selecting a school. The 61% match rate is a red flag. If possible, I would also look at the types of jobs alumni have.

Your stats are competitive for funded programs. Getting a masters first would likely be unnecessary in your situation. Although it may provide some additional research experience, that is something you can obtain through an RA job (and get paid to do it as opposed to paying to do it).

If I were you, I'd probably turn down both schools, build up my research experience over the next year (although it is getting rather late in the game if you are looking at applying for 2010) and then re-apply to programs with better funding.

 

[AryaStark]

It's not too late in the game for 2010 admissions IMO

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

A MHC degree is meant to be terminal (and not a stepping stone to a doctorate), so if you want a doctorate....aim for that.

 

[psychmama]

It's not too late in the game for 2010 admissions IMO

But if the OP were to apply this year he would only have at most a few months' experience as an RA. This might be okay if he were to get something soon, but it would probably be better to wait a year and build up the CV and position oneself to get strong references from the research supervisor.😎

 

[AryaStark]

But if the OP were to apply this year he would only have at most a few months' experience as an RA. This might be okay if he were to get something soon, but it would probably be better to wait a year and build up the CV and position oneself to get strong references from the research supervisor.😎

If he/she wanted to continue on the PsyD path, I figured that there wouldbe time. I guess I'm just not too familiar with the PsyD application process. I had always heard you don't need nearly the same amount of research experience as a PhD

 

[Piero]

I want to go through the Psy.D path, I love the idea of doing clinical work one on one with clients, patients, consulting...

anyways, my options as far as this year are narrowed down to masters in mental health counseling at both FIU and Nova, and psy.D at Carlos albizu

What do you guys think since I dont want to waste time
- since Carlos Albizu has such a bad prestege, I will attend FIU in the meantime, and get a job in a clinical setting, get some hours of experience, or do research in the meantime too, get to know profesors, and re apply to a better psy.D program or a Ph.D if I get accepted...

sounds like a good idea?

if Im going to get such a debt, I want a decent school at least
I was accepted for the Psy.D program at Nova, went to the interview, and then they turned me down 🙁 it was too competitive.... maybe because i dont have clinical work experience....??? so I should work on that!!!!

should I retake GRE? for how long do scores are kept for use for application purposes?
thanks a lot guys, this is helping me clarify some issues
Piero

 

[KillerDiller]

I want to go through the Psy.D path, I love the idea of doing clinical work one on one with clients, patients, consulting...

Just so there is no confusion, you do all these things with the Ph.D as well. Also, a doctoral degree is not required to see clients and patients one on one (not sure about consulting).

What do you guys think since I dont want to waste time- since Carlos Albizu has such a bad prestege, I will attend FIU in the meantime, and get a job in a clinical setting, get some hours of experience, or do research in the meantime too, get to know profesors, and re apply to a better psy.D program or a Ph.D if I get accepted...

sounds like a good idea?

That seems like an ok idea as long as 1) you are willing to pay the tuition cost of the masters and 2) you think this will afford better opportunities than working alone.

Actually, though, I'm a little uncertain whether this is the optimal plan for your situation because, as T4C mentioned, the masters in mental health counseling is intended as a terminal degree, not a stepping stone to doctoral level work. You also mention not wanting to waste time, but there is no guarantee that the credits from FIU would transfer to a doctoral program. You would also likely need to finish the entire program in order not to jeopardize your letters of rec.

should I retake GRE? for how long do scores are kept for use for application purposes?

GRE scores are good for 5 years. I would only re-take if you are certain you can raise your scores substantially.

 

[psychmama]

If he/she wanted to continue on the PsyD path, I figured that there wouldbe time. I guess I'm just not too familiar with the PsyD application process. I had always heard you don't need nearly the same amount of research experience as a PhD

I don't necessarily disagree with you. It's true that research is less important for admissions to psyd programs. Still, the OP is young and is looking to get into a better program, possibly one with more funding. That will mean applying to balanced phd programs and some of the better-funded university-based psyd programs. For that he'd be better positioned after another year, I think.

There's always the option of applying to a few programs this year, then deciding what to do based on where he gets in. But he's already done this once, which is why it might be good to take time to strengthen his chances.

 

[caroline2190]

Hi Piero ! so I was reading your post I am almost in the same boat ! I even applied to the same programs but I dont know what to do because even though my gpa is as good as yours and I have clinical experience my gre scores were not competitive so i ended up applying to these programs ! as of now I dont know if i should do the psy d at cau bc it bothers me that its not prestigious or the mental health counseling masters at fiu ! what did u end up doing! please advice meeeeeee ! i am desperate

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

2) should I just go ahead and start my Psy.D program at Carlos albizu, and focus on that. even though they are fully acredited, carlos albizu university does not require GRE scores, or research experience to get in, and I want to secure me a Job if i graduate from here, because the loans are incredible... we are talking 100,000$$

....and their match rates over the years are pretty poor. The 2000-2010 average is 67%, which means only 2/3 of their students match to an internship spot. More importantly, even less match at an APA-acred internship, which is the standard acred. needed to not be limited in the types of jobs you can apply for once you are licensed. Their 2012 rate for APA-acred. was 50%. That is flat out bad when you consider a halfway decent programs will match at least 80-85% to APA programs...if not 90%+ to 100%. The market is competitive enough for students who graduate from APA-acred. internship sites. You do not want to be $100k-$200k in debt AND not able to apply to certain jobs because you didn't go to an APA-acred. internship.

 

[PsychStudent05]

[QUOTE Great psychologists are not defined by the school they went to, the degree they sought, or anything else that can be labeled as a single tipping point. You will either be one because you have the inate ability and the drive to become one, or you won't. Having the desire is a major component though. While great schools and great experiences provide an advantage, I don't think they in and of themselves are the decisive factor.

Mark[/QUOTE]

I thought that was an amazing thing to say Mark and I 100% agree.

Piero,

I was in the same position as you. I was choosing between a Master's program and a PsyD program. I eventually decided a PsyD program was the right move for my career goals right now.

To share with you what I learned during this experience: You're going to hear that you need a doctorate to see clients but you don't. There are many people who have a great job and have a comfortable life with just a Master's degree. The only difference is just the title (Counselor/therapist vs. Psychologist). However, what Mark said earlier, it's not the degree, but the innate ability you have to provide support and guidance to people someday. With PsyD programs, it's really the program you feel most connected to in terms of your personal goals and mission/values. Trust me, if Harvard and Columbia offered PsyD programs, everyone would be applying to those schools too.

If you DO choose to apply again and look into PsyD programs, my advice would be to apply to schools with high APA-accredited internship rates (~80% and up). Books like the Insider's Guide is a good tool. Most PsyD programs are not funded but offer financial aid or work study and there are plenty of outside scholarship websites that can help as well. Some PsyD programs also offer research opportunities as well if research is something you're interested in.

Your standardized test scores and GPA are wonderful. I would recommend getting as much related-work experience as you can, it'll only make your application stronger. I didn't have strong standardized test scores at all but I had a strong GPA and am a strong interviewer and fortunately ended up in a very good PsyD program.

Believe in your abilities and don't short change yourself. You seem like a competent person with a lot to offer. Choose the degree and program that you feel fits your goals and everything will fall into place gradually 🙂.