Undergrad Multiple Alcohol Violations

[bigchoader]

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[Deleted member 72527]

Between my freshman and Sophmore year of college I was able to rack up an astounding, 5 minor in possession of alcohol tickets. This all happened in three different states. A couple will probably be wiped off my record by the time i apply to med school, however, certaintly not all of them.



Is there anyone out there that has been in a similar situation? When applying should i disclose this information? Will med schools take me? Any helpful advice would be nice.

Thanks

You will have to disclose it. I've heard varying thoughts on the alcohol violation issue. What I was told by the pre-med advisor (at a group intro meeting frosh year) was that one would be ok, any more than that and it was potentially problematic. I assume these are misdemeanors, so secondaries do ask about them and you will have to explain them. You will have to come up with a very good explanation as to why they happened and how you dealt with an alcohol problem (because any school is going to see 5 MIPs in a 3 month period as that - an addiction to alcohol). Handling it effectively and truthfully will present a challenge, but I think med school is still possible. You obviously don't have to acknowledge anything that's not on your record - so I would say try to get as many of them wiped before you first apply. If you have to re-apply and have fewer some schools are still going to pull your original secondary and see. Best of luck to you!

 

[bigchoader]

You will have to disclose it. I've heard varying thoughts on the alcohol violation issue. What I was told by the pre-med advisor (at a group intro meeting frosh year) was that one would be ok, any more than that and it was potentially problematic. I assume these are misdemeanors, so secondaries do ask about them and you will have to explain them. You will have to come up with a very good explanation as to why they happened and how you dealt with an alcohol problem (because any school is going to see 5 MIPs in a 3 month period as that - an addiction to alcohol). Handling it effectively and truthfully will present a challenge, but I think med school is still possible. You obviously don't have to acknowledge anything that's not on your record - so I would say try to get as many of them wiped before you first apply. If you have to re-apply and have fewer some schools are still going to pull your original secondary and see. Best of luck to you!

What I meant to say was from the begining of my fresh year to the end of my soph more year, so it was a two year span not a 3 month span of time

 

[criminallyinane]

What I meant to say was from the begining of my fresh year to the end of my soph more year, so it was a two year span not a 3 month span of time

You have to disclose it. Some secondaries ask about any arrests, offenses, charges unrelated to traffic, etc -- not just convictions/misdemeanors/felonies. I think having that number of offenses shows unquestionably poor judgment, but if you can show that you've learned from it, you have a shot. I imagine some schools will blacklist you, though not all.

 

[aduenes]

Between my freshman and Sophmore year of college I was able to rack up an astounding, 5 minor in possession of alcohol tickets. This all happened in three different states. A couple will probably be wiped off my record by the time i apply to med school, however, certaintly not all of them.



Is there anyone out there that has been in a similar situation? When applying should i disclose this information? Will med schools take me? Any helpful advice would be nice.

Thanks

Be honest with them! You should disclose your history. I also had two MIPs on my record and was accepted to medical school despite this. Now is not the time to be caught telling a lie. Almost all my interviewers asked me to explain my MIPs. How they look at your record will also depend on your age. Recent offenses are looked upon more negatively than older ones. I'm currently 32 y.o., so the MIPs were not a problem. Try and get some good advice. What you do can determine whether you'll end up hating your JOB or loving your medical profession. I for one think that you still have a chance to turn things around. Good luck!

 

[toofache32]

I wouldn't worry about it. Just go have a beer and forget about it.

 

[bigchoader]

I wouldn't worry about it. Just go have a beer and forget about it.

haha, no thanks, not till im 21. aight everyone, thanks for the support i appreciate your straight forward answers.

 

[nutmegs]

I have to say, I'd look poorly on it. C'mon, someone who can't learn their lesson (or abstain from drinking) after the 4th time tells me they either don't have the mental capacity to handle medical school, or they have a drinking problem. If it's the latter I'd be reassured to hear they got treatment, otherwise I can't help but think it would affect my opinion. Sorry.

 

[beanbean]

Yes, you do need to disclose these even if they are erased from your record for most schools. 5 alcohol violations in any time period is a major red flag. Not only does it suggest that you may be an alcoholic, it also demonstrates an inability to make good decisions and poor judgement. It will take quite a bit of time and effort on your part to get to the point where your application might be acceptable for most schools.

If you think you may have a problem with alcohol, please go see your personal physician or do a search on the internet for AA meetings in your area.

 

[cfdavid]

To the OP: Be careful of whom you ask for advice. Just because some think you should disclose your history, doesn't mean you should.

What will you gain by disclosing this?

Hopefully you've learned your lesson (heaven forbid you make some crazy, albeit redundant, mistakes at 18 and 19 years of age), and don't have a problem any longer.

Now, if it was a felony, I think the risk would be very high of NOT disclosing. And the ethical ramifications would be greater.

The only thing you did wrong was not run fast enough like most of the other pre-meds did at the same party you were at. Also, they probably chucked their beers faster than you did.

I'm not trying to make light of 5 MIP's, but it's history. So don't let it impact your future. Just learn from it and, if necessary, seek some help.

 

[cali7925]

I think either way would work. Personally, i think you should disclose it and show them some proof of alcohol treatment.

If you dont show them the proof of treatment, i think they will look on the 5 as being very poor judgement.

Or....you could forget about disclosing it. I have heard of members of my school who conveniently forgot about such things and maybe worse stuff. Bottom line is you might not get caught, but if u do get caught, u're f'ed....u're gonna determine if you are willing to take that risk or not.

I do think that of all the med schools out there, there must be a good number who realize that 18-19 yr olds will make mistakes and that these mistakes arent going to determine whether they will be good docs or not....i think it would be stupid to not admit u b/c of the mip's that were so long ago.

a kid from my h.s. got caught in college for breaking into cars...he went to law school, where such an activity could actually be written under previous work experience/extracurricular activities.....valuable experience for a career of lying and deception....i think he will be quite succesful....a very bright kid.

Between my freshman and Sophmore year of college I was able to rack up an astounding, 5 minor in possession of alcohol tickets. This all happened in three different states. A couple will probably be wiped off my record by the time i apply to med school, however, certaintly not all of them.



Is there anyone out there that has been in a similar situation? When applying should i disclose this information? Will med schools take me? Any helpful advice would be nice.

Thanks

 

[tigershark]

I would throw your app in the trash if I was on the adcom...I can understand getting 1 maybe 2...but 5? That's just f'ing stupidity.

 

[fantasty]

First, I can say that I understand the full spectrum of responses here - from "it's no big deal" to "I would throw it away". But, I think you really need to disclose.

First, AAMC is implementing recommendations for criminal background checks. Depending on when you apply, this may affect some, if not all, of the schools you apply to.
http://www.aamc.org/members/gsa/criminal_background_checks.pdf

We had someone with a previous alcohol charge who didn't put it on his application. Then he got a public intox during M1. The school nearly dismissed him - not for the current charge but due to the fact he didn't disclose on his app.

And, as others already mentioned, multiple alcohol-related charges are a huge red flag. Some of the criteria for alcohol abuse and dependence related to whether you continue to drink even after you've had negative consequences or if drinking affects your ability to function or reach your goals. I'm not suggested that you drank more than any other undergrad pre-med, but you certainly didn't learn from the first 2-3 incidents.

So, my final opinion is that you have to show that this is something that you actually learned from. It takes a lot of maturity and self-insight to reflect on the situation and shown how you've grown, and the adcoms may want tangible evidence of this reflection. That being said, you should still keep trying if medicine is what you want to do.

 

[cfdavid]

First, let me say that I respect the differing opinions here.

But, to the OP:

You have nothing to gain from disclosing. An MIP is truly a minor offense, and not a "federal conviction".

Unless they read about you in the paper that morning, they have better things to do than to run a background check on you. Even if they did, I'm not even sure a misdemeanor would show up. I don't think it goes into some nationally searchable record.

Regardless, what if you get someone that's particularly sensitive to alcohol abuse? Or a muslim doc that doesn't drink at all?

The likelyhood of a negative impact, even with a stellar explanation, is much higher than an adcom thinking "gee, this guy came clean, and we appreciate the honesty". They may think that, but then look at the 5 MIP's and you will lose.

I'm not making light of alcohol abuse. It can be serious. Only you know if it's a problem.

But there's simply NO upside to bringing this up. So don't, much like 90% of your pre-med peers would do (not disclose that is).

It's really not a big deal unless you continue to have probs. Otherwise, chalk it up as some youthful bad judgement. Case closed (no pun intended).

 

[gerido]

I would throw your app in the trash if I was on the adcom...I can understand getting 1 maybe 2...but 5? That's just f'ing stupidity.

I agree, it seems like the OP would lose either way.

1) a more old fashion and conservation committee would think if he didnt learn his lesson after the 4th time, he's not fit to be a doctor.

2) a more liberal person would acknowledge that every college student drinks and this guy must be a ***** to manage to get caught 5 times! not fit to be a doctor.

 

[DrBowtie]

First, let me say that I respect the differing opinions here.

But, to the OP:

You have nothing to gain from disclosing. An MIP is truly a minor offense, and not a "federal conviction".

Unless they read about you in the paper that morning, they have better things to do than to run a background check on you. Even if they did, I'm not even sure a misdemeanor would show up. I don't think it goes into some nationally searchable record.

Regardless, what if you get someone that's particularly sensitive to alcohol abuse? Or a muslim doc that doesn't drink at all?

The likelyhood of a negative impact, even with a stellar explanation, is much higher than an adcom thinking "gee, this guy came clean, and we appreciate the honesty". They may think that, but then look at the 5 MIP's and you will lose.

I'm not making light of alcohol abuse. It can be serious. Only you know if it's a problem.

But there's simply NO upside to bringing this up. So don't, much like 90% of your pre-med peers would do (not disclose that is).

It's really not a big deal unless you continue to have probs. Otherwise, chalk it up as some youthful bad judgement. Case closed (no pun intended).

There is a lot to lose though. Not disclosing this information could be a big problem if your school somehow finds out.

 

[JohnnyOU]

I wouldn't worry about it. Just go have a beer and forget about it.

LOL

 

[JimEdmondsSucks]

Here's where the beauty of semantics comes in. Make sure you know exactly what type of violation an MIP is. Some places an MIP is a city ordinance violation (God bless college towns). You know what else is a city ordinance violation? Burning leaves. Unless you are specifically asked about any degree of violation involving alcohol, I say you leave it off. And if they catch you on it, you should be fine because they asked for felonies and maybe misdemeanors, not city ordinance violations. Your response (you should make it less condescending, though), "I don't recall any misdemeanors, I did have a few city ordinance violations, though." If med schools are paying for extremely detailed background checks that pick up city ordinance violations, a lot of people would have problems. Also, whether or not you contested the charges is important. If you did, there will be a public record, which is easy to obtain.

I would also be curious as to whether having 5 of them would pile up and catch the eye of your school. I have heard of schools placing people on probation and even expulsion for multiple offenses, which may turn up on your transcript. If ADCOMS see that you were disciplined, they are going to want to know why. In this case, you have to come clean and have a damn good excuse.

I feel for you man. When it comes to drinking, this country is ass backwards (Props to Europe). You are old enough to die for your country, but you can't drink. Just imagine if you were caught drinking every time before your 21st. What if it was just confined to weekends during college and never exceeded three drinks. Your looking at 90 MIPs. Does this mean that you're a drunk. Of course not. It does mean that you may not be smart enough to know when to quit, or you can't figure out how to avoid getting pinched. But one thing this country knows how to do (often to a fault) is to legally cover their asses. Definitiely worthwhile to get the advice of a lawyer. Also you may want to find some popular backgound check agencies and get a copy of your's and see what shows up. Definitely some things to think about whatever you decide.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

They sound like misdemeanors and therefore you won't have to mention it (unless some school's secondary asks - which you should then throw that secondary out).

 

[Realest]

Here's where the beauty of semantics comes in. Make sure you know exactly what type of violation an MIP is. Some places an MIP is a city ordinance violation (God bless college towns). You know what else is a city ordinance violation? Burning leaves. Unless you are specifically asked about any degree of violation involving alcohol, I say you leave it off. And if they catch you on it, you should be fine because they asked for felonies and maybe misdemeanors, not city ordinance violations. Your response (you should make it less condescending, though), "I don't recall any misdemeanors, I did have a few city ordinance violations, though." If med schools are paying for extremely detailed background checks that pick up city ordinance violations, a lot of people would have problems. Also, whether or not you contested the charges is important. If you did, there will be a public record, which is easy to obtain.

I would also be curious as to whether having 5 of them would pile up and catch the eye of your school. I have heard of schools placing people on probation and even expulsion for multiple offenses, which may turn up on your transcript. If ADCOMS see that you were disciplined, they are going to want to know why. In this case, you have to come clean and have a damn good excuse.

I feel for you man. When it comes to drinking, this country is ass backwards (Props to Europe). You are old enough to die for your country, but you can't drink. Just imagine if you were caught drinking every time before your 21st. What if it was just confined to weekends during college and never exceeded three drinks. Your looking at 90 MIPs. Does this mean that you're a drunk. Of course not. It does mean that you may not be smart enough to know when to quit, or you can't figure out how to avoid getting pinched. But one thing this country knows how to do (often to a fault) is to legally cover their asses. Definitiely worthwhile to get the advice of a lawyer. Also you may want to find some popular backgound check agencies and get a copy of your's and see what shows up. Definitely some things to think about whatever you decide.

Great advice - I completely agree. I think it's hard to gauge how the adcom will react and much of it depends simply on the luck of the draw. I had a violation for cursing out a cop (yeah, REAL stupid.) and my pre-med advisor said that unless it specifically asks about a violation on the secondary (most only ask for disclosure misdemeanor or felony charges) I am under no obligation to disclose it. Suppose this is a misdemeanor - well, you may or may not be screwed. All I can offer is one anecdote - I had to disclose this offense on an app and was asked about it during the interview. The doc just laughed it off and asked what I did, then related his own experience with breaking the law. If anything, it makes you more human (altho I've got to say 5 is a bit much, but at least it seems you've wisened up). Put a positive spin on the situation and mentione what you have learned from your mistakes. Doctors are not perfect people and some of the best are ones that can relate to their patients' problems. Yours is not a hopeless case and there are others who have been admitted with far worse an offense. Good luck!