Undergrad research

[AnesthesiaMD]

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I really want to get involved in research at my school this summer before applying to medical school and also because I want to get some "practice" in. How is it that undergrads get published while working in a prof's lab? How long does it usually take to get published? Any help would be appreciated!

 

[spicedmanna]

I really want to get involved in research at my school this summer before applying to medical school and also because I want to get some "practice" in. How is it that undergrads get published while working in a prof's lab? How long does it usually take to get published? Any help would be appreciated!

This reminds me of the old Zen story about the young warrior who kept asking a master Samurai how long it would take to learn to wield the sword like him: the more he asked, the longer the master said it would take. The horse before the carriage, as it were. Listen, don't concern yourself over getting published just yet; it's a pretty rare honor for an undergraduate student, especially if you are conducting research in a fairly large lab where everyone wants a piece of the proverbial pie, or if your PI's want to publish in a prestigious peer-reviewed journal.

There's no clear recipe for getting published anyway. Go into your summer research for the sake of learning the research process, not for the sake of getting your name in a prestigious journal. However, you will more likely obtain authorship, if you are highly dedicated, seek to get as involved as possible in your lab work, make the most of every learning opportunity, and take the initiative when you can. Take steps to fully "own" the work that your lab is doing; make them think of you as a post-doctoral student, not as an undergraduate. The greater your involvement in the lab, the more you make it your own, the more likely the important authors of a study will throw you a bone or two. It usually isn't a one summer fling that gets you published (although I'm sure there are exceptions), though, it's the long-term commitment that wins you a chance to write and present some work that you were involved in.

As for myself, it was roughly three to four years into my research, and countless hours coordinating teams and co-designing studies that led to a chance to write and present my work. It really felt like a culmination of all my efforts, and it was a complete thrill to present in front of a group of international researchers.

My two cents.

 

[dasacohen]

That was a really well written reply!

Personally it took me two years in the same lab: one semester of doing b.itch work, one semester to learn a technique (western blot in my ghetto lab), a summer to kick start a personal project (and support from my dept and lab), and then a year of data collection/literary search/manuscript writing.

I think it largely depends on your PI. I know many undergraduates who have been published, or at least recognized in a paper, after working in a lab for a semester or two. I think it takes generally about 1.5 to 2 years

 

[crimsonkid85]

I really want to get involved in research at my school this summer before applying to medical school and also because I want to get some "practice" in. How is it that undergrads get published while working in a prof's lab? How long does it usually take to get published? Any help would be appreciated!

seriously. to ask if you will be on a published paper after 1 summer's work is not only arrogant, it's an affront to all those students out their slaving day and night over their research projects. sure it's happened before: if you work on a summer project in high school, MAYBE you'll have a shot at that paper coming out during your college years, and MAYBE if you're lucky, you'll be one of the peewee authors towards the end. if you want to make a real contribution towards a project, though, you have to be willing to put forth serious effort. this means going to lab several times a week, staying late (sometimes past midnight), going on the weekends. ask anybody who's been first author on a paper. i guarantee you they've done all of the above and probably more. even then, it's no guarantee that your project will work. research is difficult; don't expect to get much out of it if you're a strict 9-5 person.

 

[Tired]

I think it largely depends on your PI. I know many undergraduates who have been published, or at least recognized in a paper, after working in a lab for a semester or two. I think it takes generally about 1.5 to 2 years

I'll ditto the first part; publication opportunites are highly variable from PI to PI. I spent three years in an undergrad lab and only got a single paper and two presentations out of it. I had friends with multiple papers after only a year or two. It's a very difficult thing to predict.

I think though, that you can politely ask a prospective PI about publication opportunities. Every researcher who takes on undergrads knows that publishing is highly desirable. Having an up-front conversation about it does not strike me as unreasonable, unless you're approaching it from the perspective of, "I want to work for two months and get a paper out of it."

In my mind, the difference is the time frame you approach it from. Telling a PI that you want to work under them long-term, and are truly interested in learning about their field, you will earn their respect regardless of your eventual career choice. If you're ready and willing to put in a couple years worth of work, and you tell that to the PI, there is nothing wrong with asking about potential publication.

 

[dasacohen]

I think though, that you can politely ask a prospective PI about publication opportunities. Every researcher who takes on undergrads knows that publishing is highly desirable. Having an up-front conversation about it does not strike me as unreasonable, unless you're approaching it from the perspective of, "I want to work for two months and get a paper out of it."

Couldn't agree more. Every PI knows that you are "using" them to better your resume. Besides personal goals, you basically want to publish something to make yourself look good. And every PI wants to "use" you to better their research, or help their standing in a given dept., or fulfill one of their personal goals, etc.

in essence be very clear of your expectations, work hard when you begin working under them. Let the PI know what kind of time you can donate and what expectations you have from working in their lab. While I don't particularly like my PI that much, we both work together very well--I do her work sometimes...she lets me do my independent project...and we're all happy 🙂

also, if you're in a lab that is going no where, ALWAYS look for other options: don't stick it out if it's not worth it.

 

[premeddick]

Couldn't agree more. Every PI knows that you are "using" them to better your resume. Besides personal goals, you basically want to publish something to make yourself look good. And every PI wants to "use" you to better their research, or help their standing in a given dept., or fulfill one of their personal goals, etc.

in essence be very clear of your expectations, work hard when you begin working under them. Let the PI know what kind of time you can donate and what expectations you have from working in their lab. While I don't particularly like my PI that much, we both work together very well--I do her work sometimes...she lets me do my independent project...and we're all happy 🙂

also, if you're in a lab that is going no where, ALWAYS look for other options: don't stick it out if it's not worth it.

From my own experience it is always better to find a PI who is an MD PHD. They often know that you need a publication to increase your competitiveness. I worked for a PHD who made no mention of publishing ever. I have also worked for an MD PHD who mentioned the importance of it in the first five minutes. Obviously he is the one that i stuck with for the long haul. If you want to publish, find someone whose opinion about it aligns with yours. You cant go wrong. Just be prepared to work hard.