Undergrad school?

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ELock

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Hey, I was just wondering what kind of weight Dental Schools give for the difficulty of the attended undergraduate school. By doing some research on the dental school admissions process, it seems to be that the two main statistics are GPA and DAT performance. Wouldn't someone's GPA be lower at a more difficult school versus ASU (or something like that)?
The reason i am inquiring is because I am just going to be a senior in high school and am broaching the college issue. Thanks for the input!

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from what I've gather so far, it doesn't really matter which school you go as undergrad. So, u should go for a school that offer programs that you are interested in, so you will acheive high GPA and enjoy your undergrad life!!! Good luck man! :thumbup:
 
i second that, a higher gpa is more favorable than the prestige of the school...for example, ASU vs. UCLA, although UCLA has higher standards in undergraduate acceptance, getting better GPA at ASU is way better for graduate schools...
 
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I dont quite agree with that.
UCLA has a dental sch and ASU doesnt.
At UCLA, they accept a great number of students from their own sch, while I am not sure how many ASU students will they take at UCLA.

However, if you want to compare Stanford and ASU, it would still be a tough choice.
Educational resources and alumni are two big issues. It costs a lot to go to Stanford, but if you believe you get what you pay for, then absolutely go for that.

Yes, grades are important, but you are still very young. In case, you may change ur career later on. It might be best to go to the "more difficult" school. Yet I am not sure ASU is that easy.
 
If you're 100% dead-set on being a dentist and nothing else, your undergrad institution matters little. Just get a good GPA, like other people have stated, and a good DAT score, and have a blast in undergrad. You'll be all set.

Of course, college should not solely be about prestige, nor preperation for one's profession, nor tuition, etc. Gotta throw that in too.

Oh, you may want to look into any BA-DMD programs that are out there, if you haven't already.

Good luck! :thumbup:
 
Let's not forget the fact that many of the top universities have ramped grade inflation and most adcoms will know this. It was just last year that Princeton was giving A's to over 70% of students. (Stanford is not much better) I'm not saying you won't get a great education but don't assume you will have a low gpa at top schools simply because they are the top. I say you should get into the most prestigious school you can with at least a little grade inflation so that you can have the prestige, learn something and not take the gpa hit.
 
DAng it!! IF only I had known this supposedly true fact, because I would have loved to go to a CHEAPER and much easier undergrad school instead of my currently expensive and VEry difficult Carnegie mellon university.

sigh....

a mistake?
 
sidewalkman said:
If you're 100% dead-set on being a dentist and nothing else, your undergrad institution matters little. Just get a good GPA, like other people have stated, and a good DAT score, and have a blast in undergrad. You'll be all set.

Of course, college should not solely be about prestige, nor preperation for one's profession, nor tuition, etc. Gotta throw that in too.

Oh, you may want to look into any BA-DMD programs that are out there, if you haven't already.

Good luck! :thumbup:

Back to being "dead-set on becoming a dentist," be aware there are some combined BS/DDS programs out there. You can gain a BS and DDS degree in as little as six years IF you are a competitive high school student (top of your class and strong ACT/SAT scores). If you are, it's worth checking into! :)
 
what schools offer that combined program?

Thanks for all your help guys!
 
Tonerockyhorror said:
Let's not forget the fact that many of the top universities have ramped grade inflation and most adcoms will know this. It was just last year that Princeton was giving A's to over 70% of students. (Stanford is not much better) I'm not saying you won't get a great education but don't assume you will have a low gpa at top schools simply because they are the top. I say you should get into the most prestigious school you can with at least a little grade inflation so that you can have the prestige, learn something and not take the gpa hit.

It is not that bad if a school like Princeton gives over 70% of its students As. Princeton is one of the most selective schools on the planet. If you can gain admission as an undergradute, you have proven that you are a truly exceptional student.
 
I second the sentiments of Sidewalkman, Sinned, and Smooth Operator. Let's not forget that the DAT is a good indicator of your aptitude for science and meter for you past performance in school and can signal any grade inflation. If you scored a 4.0 in undergrad and finish with a 13/13 on the DAT, something is not right. Perhaps you had a bad day or your institution is in fact guilty of somesort of grade inflation.

When selecting undergraduate schools I believe it is more important to thoroughly research the instituition. Find out their dental school placement rates (most advisors will have this information and are willing to share it), examine their curriculum, and weigh the pro's and con's of each one which you are considering. There are plenty of state schools that have great programs with great dental school matriculation rates. If you are dead set on a particular dental school and are wondering about an undergraduate program, contact that dental school and determine where their students come from. Also keep in mind that dental schools can witness for themselves the caliber and attitude of a particular school's students and decide they like them or they don't - regardless of the name or affiliation. While gaining admissions to a name-plate school, such as Princeton, certainly demonstrates that you are capable of being an exceptional student, many dental schools are now interested in what ways you are a truly exceptional person. It takes more than a name to become the latter. You don't need an Ivy League degree to engage in volunteer activities and gain dental experience in order to achieve distinction. And like Dtrain1 stated, it can be a heck of a lot cheaper too.
 
ELock said:
what schools offer that combined program?

Thanks for all your help guys!

There's 2 different-sounding, but similar, types of programs.

One is a combined program; you do your undergrad and dental program at the same school (e.g. Tufts, UConn, Temple). The other is a linkage program, where ugrad and dental school are seperate but "linked." In either case, if you get some minimum GPA and/or DAT score in ugrad, you're automatically accepted to that dental school. In either case, I believe it takes 7 years. For example, here's a link for one such program at Temple:
http://www.temple.edu/dentistry/admissions/requirements.htm

Temple's on the list, but so are lots of local schools I've never heard of. Other state schools should have similar programs.

More selective schools have them also - I know Lehigh has a linkage program with Penn Dental.

My point is that you don't have to limit your dual degree search exclusively to ugrad schools that also have dental schools. There are linkage programs out there worthy of consideration.
 
Yeah I am going to have to do some shadowing and make sure that dentistry is what I want to do. The combined program at UoP is only 5 years, if I decide to do go that route. :thumbup:

I really appreciate all of your guys' help. If anyone else has anything to say, please feel free to. Thanks a lot.
 
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This thread is depressing. I went to UVA (currently tied for #1 public in the US) and I was hoping the competitiveness would be considered. :(
 
Dtrain1 said:
DAng it!! IF only I had known this supposedly true fact, because I would have loved to go to a CHEAPER and much easier undergrad school instead of my currently expensive and VEry difficult Carnegie mellon university.

sigh....

a mistake?

no, my classmmate that went there is doing amazingly well... (but yeah you could have went to ucla and had a blast... :p )
 
Remmurts said:
Back to being "dead-set on becoming a dentist," be aware there are some combined BS/DDS programs out there. You can gain a BS and DDS degree in as little as six years IF you are a competitive high school student (top of your class and strong ACT/SAT scores). If you are, it's worth checking into! :)

UMKC has a seven-year program and UDM has a six-year program. For both, you must apply during your senior year of high school. Both are reputable programs. :thumbup:
 
CWRU has a six year program, I know a couple people who went through it.

Also, it depends on the school how much emphasis they put on your undergrad institution. I know that CWRU does take into account where you went to school. However your GPA/DAT/LOR/Personal statement matters much more then your undergrad school.

Having chosen the more prestigous school coming out of high school because I was led to believe it was necessary, I would have to say I probably wouldnt make the same choice again (even though I had a great time at my school). I would go to whatever school I think I would be happiest at, and wherever you are going to end up with less debt. Do well and you will get into dental school coming from any undergrad.
 
arns51 said:
CWRU has a six year program, I know a couple people who went through it.

Also, it depends on the school how much emphasis they put on your undergrad institution. I know that CWRU does take into account where you went to school. However your GPA/DAT/LOR/Personal statement matters much more then your undergrad school.

Having chosen the more prestigous school coming out of high school because I was led to believe it was necessary, I would have to say I probably wouldnt make the same choice again (even though I had a great time at my school). I would go to whatever school I think I would be happiest at, and wherever you are going to end up with less debt. Do well and you will get into dental school coming from any undergrad.

CWRU's six-year program? Are you simply referring to the fact that they require a minimum of 2 years of an undergraduate program be completed prior to entry into the DDS program?...Or, are you saying that they award a combined BS/DDS degree upon concluding six years at their institution? There is a huge difference. There are a handful of dental schools that do not require 3 or 4 years of undergraduate studies prior to entrance into the DDS program (requiring only a minimum of two years, including prerequisite courses); however, if you travel that route, a BS degree is not included with the DDS degree.
:confused:
 
Remmurts said:
CWRU's six-year program? Are you simply referring to the fact that they require a minimum of 2 years of an undergraduate program be completed prior to entry into the DDS program?...Or, are you saying that they award a combined BS/DDS degree upon concluding six years at their institution? There is a huge difference. There are a handful of dental schools that do not require 3 or 4 years of undergraduate studies prior to entrance into the DDS program (requiring only a minimum of two years, including prerequisite courses); however, if you travel that route, a BS degree is not included with the DDS degree.
:confused:

There are two programs linked to CWRU that I'm aware of. I'm vaguely familiar with the 6-year program that is done entirely at Case, but am accepted to the seven year program, so I can tell you a fair amount about it. The seven year program leads to a bachelor's at one of 3 undergrad institutions (Westminster, Denison, and my school Wooster). You apply to the dental school after deciding to go to one of those three schools. It was really easy to apply, Wooster sent copies of my undergrad application to Case. They invited me for an interview and I heard back a couple weeks later. I have a GPA and DAT requirement and have to be recommended by my pre-dental advisor. My next three years will be at Wooster and then the following four will be at Case Dental. The way the dual degree works is I receive a bachelor's from Wooster after my first year of dental school. and then my DMD after seven years.
 
Sevenyears,

Thanks for your reply....interesting?!... :idea:
 
This is my first post, so bear with me. I have wondered, like this writer, whether your undergrad school is taken into consideration? My undergrad school has a great reputation with medical schools/very high acceptance rate, but traditionally does not feed to dental schools. My overall GPA is 3.34 and my science GPA is 3.2. (dual biology/math major) I was sad to see the comment that weight would be given to the school if DAT scores reflect a tougher curriculum, but it isn't anything I didn't already know. I should have analyzed that when I chose an undergrad school, because, historically, I have never scored high on large scale tests.(My SAT's did not reflect my top ten high school status) Here are my stats now: GPA given above. DAT academic average: 17; Quantitative Reasoning: 16(always scored at least a 20 on Kaplan practice exams); Reading Comprension: 19; Biology: 16 (pretty funny, considering I am a Bio/Math major); Gen Chem: 19; Org. Chem.: 16 (got all A and A- in orgo in college in tough program-one of my recomm. is from my orgo prof.); total science: 17; now here is the worst part, as if it could get worse: Perceptual Ability: 13. Every time I took a Kaplan practice PAT, I never scored below a 17. My average was a 19; the very first practice PAT I took at Kaplan prior to any studying or ever seeing the exam before, I got a 17, so I never dreamed I would have a problem-I have no clue what happened. I took the Kaplan course with a private tutor twice and took every sample test they had prior to my taking the DAT this June. (this is the first time I took the actual exam, but I was not planning on taking it again. I am entering my senior year and my applications have been sent, along with transcript & recommendations.) On the plus side for me, along with my "adequate" GPA and my respected undergrad school, I also have tons of dental experience because my dad is a dentist and I have literally spent my life working in his office.. So-do I have any shot at all? (even from my dad's alma mater or should I just hang it up for this year as of now? Thanks.
 
Holden21, welcome to the forums! :thumbup: Please don't hang it all up!!! If you do that then you have made the decision for the adcoms. Obviously you've worked hard to get where you are now and I see no reason to quit. Sure your DAT scores and gpa are hovering around average, but that is by no means a reason not to apply. If you feel your other stats won't hook an adcom, perhaps your personal statement and background will. Maybe your top 10 school will pull some weight with an adcom - as far as I know noone posting on these forums are active members of you desired dental school so anything is possible. You mentioned that your father is a dentist. That's great as it can show that you are familiar with the realities of being a dentist as one came home to your dinner table every night. If I were you I would certainly apply to my father's alma matter. There is no law that states you cannot take advantage of any angle that you either created for yourself or that was given to you.

Do you really want to become a dentist? I know that is a bland and often rhetorical question (though not in this case). If the answer is yes, and you truly believe it - not because you have convinced yourself or seek approval from whomever, but because you have looked inside of yourself and asked the tough questions and came up still desiring your current profession. Worst case senario is that you have to re-take the DAT (or whatever else) and your matriculation is delayed for a year. So what - take it off and go backpacking through Europe or spend some time doing a fascinating internship like Dr. Badvibes. Your genuine desire to become a dentist will carry you to your goal. Yes, you have a good shot and I encourage you to continue with the application process. The future is bright and so go put your name on it.
 
Thanks for the response. Yes, I really do want to be a dentist. I cannot imagine being anything else. I have already applied to my dad's alma mater (my cousin is a senior there now as well) and would be happy to go there. I applied to ten schools in all; the only reason my dad's alma mater was not my original first choice was because I wanted to make my own way and not just totally follow in his footsteps. When you get right down to it, I also did not want others to think maybe I was only there because of my dad. I just fear that I really killed myself with the 13 in PAT but, like others have said on this site, the desire to NOT have to retake this exam is strong, so, at this point, I would be thrilled to be accepted to any of my schools. period. And, as you said, if I am not, I will take off a year to do more research or independent study and retake the d- DAT again.
 
I think quality of undergrad school is not as important to adcoms as your GPA and DAT. But it is at least a small factor. I think it's something they look at more if your GPA and DAT score don't match up (like if you have a 2.5GPA and a 23 on the DAT). However, if you did go to a big name school, I'm sure that could only help you. But if your DAT isn't high the fact that you went to Harvard or Stanford or where ever won't make up for it. Every pre-dental student across the nation takes the DAT test. It gives adcoms a way to compare them. I'm not trying to be mean, that's my opinion. Good luck to you!

Jessica
 
UB has a 7 year program with Canisisus college in buffalo, SUNY geneseo, Lemoyne, and St. Lawrence, and Utica college (SU)...

I am also going to be a senior in highschool and plan on applying to this program after I get into one of the above schools, hopefully SUNY geneseo or canisius.
 
Remmurts said:
CWRU's six-year program? Are you simply referring to the fact that they require a minimum of 2 years of an undergraduate program be completed prior to entry into the DDS program?...Or, are you saying that they award a combined BS/DDS degree upon concluding six years at their institution? There is a huge difference. There are a handful of dental schools that do not require 3 or 4 years of undergraduate studies prior to entrance into the DDS program (requiring only a minimum of two years, including prerequisite courses); however, if you travel that route, a BS degree is not included with the DDS degree.
:confused:

CWRU's six year program is something that you apply to and are accepted to in high school. There is a minimum DAT and GPA requirement and you do your undergrad at CWRU. Im not real sure if you are actually awarded a BA/BS degree along with the DDS because there is no way you could complete enough credit hours to earn it.
 
To the OP...I was in a similar dilemma when I was entering undergrad....My choice was a little college in Boston named Merrimack or Toronto, the top uni in Canada....Of course I knew that going to the little college would probably give me a higher GPA, but I didnt know if adcoms took into consideration the toughness and prestige of the school....

So when I was finishing high school, I met with the admissions director at Tufts dental and asked her this very same question. She said to her, the school does make a difference, but only slightly...her exact quote to me was "If I had two students, one from Merrimack and one from Cornell, then I would choose the Cornell student....also I would give the Cornell student a break if his GPA was 0.2 lower"....

So what I got from this, is that in the case of a tie, the reputation of the school matters....however if you goto a crappy college and have a 3.8 versus a 3.2 from Cornell, the guy from the crappy college will get accepted first. So I guess it only matters in tough decisions....

remember, that was only Tufts that said this to me...other schools could be different....
 
Work every angle you got, your dad was a dentist, have your dad call his buddies at the school, say my son or daughter is applying, what can we do for him. Have him make out a substantial check to the school j/k.

Research schools that have gpa and DAT stats similar to those, research, look for schools like Marquette and others out there with lower dat averarges.


REtake the dat if you have too, might have too with a low pat score, but then again, call the schools your really interested in ask them if the pat is that important to them.

If you have to reapply then you have to reapply, its not a race, although many on here act like going to dental school when there 18 makes them top dawgs. Those are those self inflamed ego mongers! wont get into that.

FINALLY DO YOU WANT TO BE A DENTIST, if you do then you have to work, if getting into dental school was easy everyone and there mother would be a dentist. Nothin in this world is ever easy, if it was, would you want?

keep rockin
stickit to the man
adios :thumbup:
HD
 
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