Undergrad: UPenn vs Columbia

[unsurechoice]

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I am going to be a freshman in the Class of 2015 at Columbia. Recently, however, I am regretting my decision after reconsidering UPenn. From what I've read on these forums, it seems UPenn is a better place to be a pre-med.

What I think/thought was that UPenn is ultra-competitive for premed and yet only a handful of students get into the top of the top med schools (which is my goal; granted, i realize all med schools are great but I do want to go to a top of the top med school).

Also, I think/thought Columbia, despite the core being bothersome to premed requirements and the med school far away, would mean less competition and perhaps even less aggressive competition (the school is dominated by humanities majors). I thought Columbia premeds do very well in getting in to top of the top med schools, at least proportionally (since the number of premeds is far smaller).

But now, I am reading how premeds don't like it there (supposedly). The social life is miserable. Are premeds (or undergrads in general) neglected there? It seems UPenn is a premed heaven.

Should I attempt to enroll in UPenn between now and the start of the semester? Am I wrong to doubt Columbia? Initially I had the impression UPenn would mean harder science courses, more premed competition, and thus worse med school prospects. After reading these and other forums, however, it seems I may have set myself up for a much harder life.

 

[Narmerguy]

The majority of your college experience and medical school success will not be dependent on your school but on you. Happiness is a choice, and you can be happy in any environment. Sometimes it may be easier to thrive in one place versus another, but the choice is yours.

If you know premed competition is rough, bust your butt. If people say social life sucks, make sure to make keeping your friendships a priority and doing things that make you happy. If your grades are slipping because the competition is overwhelming you (don't assume that this still wouldn't be the case in another school), prepare for the MCAT thoroughly and with a determination fitting for your situation.

Attempting to enroll in UPenn at this point will be tedious and maybe impossible. Either way, I'm skeptical if you should make the decision based solely on the opinion of a bunch of people on a forum. You can succeed anywhere. Just learn how the game has to played to succeed at your institution and play it.

 

[KLycos]

Dude, getting a higher GPA and better MCAT at whatever school you go to is the key. You could get a 3.7cgpa at Columbia and it would be better than a 3.5 at Penn. Penn isn't that great for pre-med, trust me I'm doing genetics research at Penn and all the pre-meds complain.

 

[unsurechoice]

So, is there any meaningful advantage in going to UPenn, then?

From what I've gathered, it seems getting a higher GPA would be more possible at Columbia. But this is all hearsay.

 

[deleted307836]

They're both great schools; I don't think choosing one based on the environment for pre-med students is very sound. Go with the school you like best and seek out the best opportunities you can at either. If I were in your shoes I would choose Columbia in a heartbeat but that's for my own personal preferences.

 

[Soulstice]

Both schools have good research program. Both Philadelphia and New York have a great health sector, meaning you'll have no short supply of extracurriculars at either place. Both campuses are very active on social issues, academically strong, and urban. And on top of that, the intro pre-med curriculum (bio, chem, physics, math) is basically standard wherever you take it.

For pre-med they're both pretty much the same school. Not that it matters, because you don't have a choice in switching schools or anything like that at this time of year. May 1st is May 1st.. the only way you can switch now is by transferring, since chances are your spot was handed over to someone else by the time Penn figured out you weren't coming.

 

[unsurechoice]

I realize that, and then I may transfer if being at Penn is indeed that beneficial. On the contrary, I know two people who have been allowed to switch to another college which they were accepted to after May 1st (actually, around early June).

 

[Slack3r]

Choosing a school based on the perceived difficulty of a pre-med curriculum is stupid. Go with which school will be a) cheaper and b) a better fit for you. Won't matter if it's the easiest school out there, if you're miserable you won't do well regardless.

 

[Xodus]

penn's great and all as a pre-med...i like the professors, tons of clinical and research opportunities, a strong and caring group of pre-health advisors. it's challenging but i haven't found it over-burdensome, but take it for what it's worth...i'm just one student. that said, columbia is just as strong a school, and i could only imagine is close to identical in terms of pre-medical opportunities (big city with opportunities in a large research environment and with a bunch of hospitals). it seriously won't matter in that regard. just pick wherever you'll be happy, i'd assume their aid packages are fairly similar, and just look for those other intangibles in a school. in my opinion, there's no need to change now...i'm sure you'll get there and love it. if not, transferring won't be too bad if you have good grades.

 

[eli20]

and all the pre-meds complain.

If this is the barometer for whether or not a school is a good place for undergrad then there probably isn't a decent place to do premed in the US

 

[KLycos]

Dude just go to the college that will make you happy and that you are a good FIT for.

 

[Essee]

Lesson: People complain about anything and everything everywhere.

There are good and bad things at every school but I doubt that there is a substantial amount of difference to affect your undergrad premed education signficantly at columbia or upenn. Its up to you to make something out of your undergrad - not the school.

 

[unsurechoice]

Thanks for the responses!

I guess I feel more secure about my decision. It's just that, I'm getting this negative vibe from Columbia all of a sudden (it seems like a scary, too urban place right now). Perhaps this is just buyer's remorse.

I guess, from what everyone is telling me, it really is much more up to me and I should be fine, though I'm just afraid the core will soon become irritating/agonizing. I'm just really unsure.

Perhaps I should just worry less. I think I feel this way because Penn and Columbia (and my other choices) were far from my top or even top five choices.

(Note: I still realize just how fortunate I am)

 

[CodeBlu]

I would personally suck it up and go to Columbia. You will love your life. NYC is awesome and you will do well no matter where you are! Just put the work in and you will go far.

 

[bucks2010]

what I found through my college is experience is that at every level of pre-medism, you will encounter people who complain incessantly about the "difficult" classes. this began with my freshman-level biology class and continued for the duration of the 4 years (although the actual amount of whining went down b/c those who couldn't cut it were weeded out). in the end, there are those who bit the bullet and did what it took to succeed, and those that complained, got down on themselves, and quit.

what I'm trying to tell you is, don't let the attitudes of others overly influence your own. college is tough everywhere (esp. at the 2 places you're considering) and I guarantee you that if you go to UPenn you will encounter complainers there too, because they're everywhere. whether you choose Columbia or UPenn, if you look hard enough there will always be something to complain about. but there will also always be excellent opportunities available to you should you choose to take advantage of them.

remember this: college is what you make of it.

 

[FSUchess99]

threads like this always make me wish I had applied to more than one school for undergrad. Penn and Yale have always been the schools that intrigued me the most. Considering my work ethic at the time, it probably would have been a waste of money anyway.

Ive always thought the most important part of a college decision is the visit. Does the campus hit you and make you think "WOW I want to be here"

cant wait to visit potential med schools

 

[Xodus]

Perhaps I should just worry less. I think I feel this way because Penn and Columbia (and my other choices) were far from my top or even top five choices.

Comments like that are not going to make you friends at Penn or Columbia. You'll go in with a chip on your shoulder thinking your better than everybody there, and everyone else will notice it. People like that are obnoxious, and they carry that attitude with them everywhere and nobody will like that.

 

[Juicec]

I am going to be a freshman in the Class of 2015 at Columbia. Recently, however, I am regretting my decision after reconsidering UPenn. From what I've read on these forums, it seems UPenn is a better place to be a pre-med.

What I think/thought was that UPenn is ultra-competitive for premed and yet only a handful of students get into the top of the top med schools (which is my goal; granted, i realize all med schools are great but I do want to go to a top of the top med school).

Also, I think/thought Columbia, despite the core being bothersome to premed requirements and the med school far away, would mean less competition and perhaps even less aggressive competition (the school is dominated by humanities majors). I thought Columbia premeds do very well in getting in to top of the top med schools, at least proportionally (since the number of premeds is far smaller).

But now, I am reading how premeds don't like it there (supposedly). The social life is miserable. Are premeds (or undergrads in general) neglected there? It seems UPenn is a premed heaven.

Should I attempt to enroll in UPenn between now and the start of the semester? Am I wrong to doubt Columbia? Initially I had the impression UPenn would mean harder science courses, more premed competition, and thus worse med school prospects. After reading these and other forums, however, it seems I may have set myself up for a much harder life.

Go to a local state school, stay home, work, save money and receive the same chances any other student has at any other school.

 

[halfconceal]

You know, I'm a really easygoing Columbia alum ('07) who's a current MS3 and your post strikes me as...terrifically obnoxious. If you've got horrible buyer's remorse over a high-quality problem, perhaps you'd like for me to call up the admission's office and request they rescind your admission, seeing as I don't imagine for a moment that you'd have the guts to do it yourself. Don't feel like having that happen, right? I knew you'd change your tune. Your post is self-centered and whiny, two things you're going to need to let go of sooner rather than later.

Look, I don't mean to be harsh, but if medicine is going to be the life that you aim for, you are going to have to understand that your "high-quality problems" are not going to be the center of anyone's attention -even your own attention - for a very long time. Possibly the remainder of your professional working life, particularly if you want to go to a "top of the top" school that values academic medicine and actively encourages its graduates to figure out how to advance medicine. You have the opportunity of a lifetime to choose between schools that will give you a great education in exchange for a fraction of the hardship that med school and residency will be. I suggest you not whinge about how irritating/annoying you perceive it will be, and start looking at things a little differently.

 

[docelh]

Do you think penn pre-meds are dumber than columbia pre-meds?

Do you think penn pre-med courses are curved differently from columbia pre-med courses?

 

[LeoGer]

I'd take UMass-Amherst over either. It's the Harvard of Massachusetts.

 

[KLycos]

Pre-med is the same everywhere, just do well and enjoy college brah

 

[Slack3r]

Thanks for the responses!

I guess I feel more secure about my decision. It's just that, I'm getting this negative vibe from Columbia all of a sudden (it seems like a scary, too urban place right now). Perhaps this is just buyer's remorse.

I guess, from what everyone is telling me, it really is much more up to me and I should be fine, though I'm just afraid the core will soon become irritating/agonizing. I'm just really unsure.

Perhaps I should just worry less. I think I feel this way because Penn and Columbia (and my other choices) were far from my top or even top five choices.

(Note: I still realize just how fortunate I am)

Yea Manhattan is awfully scary. 🙄

I'd be more afraid of West Kill-adelphia than NYC.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

I'd personally choose Columbia, but I prefer NYC over Philly. Both are wonderful schools, and so you should really just choose based upon where you think you'd be happier. Either school is going to present some very rough competition in your pre-med classes.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

I am going to be a freshman in the Class of 2015 at Columbia. Recently, however, I am regretting my decision after reconsidering UPenn. From what I've read on these forums, it seems UPenn is a better place to be a pre-med.

What I think/thought was that UPenn is ultra-competitive for premed and yet only a handful of students get into the top of the top med schools (which is my goal; granted, i realize all med schools are great but I do want to go to a top of the top med school).

Also, I think/thought Columbia, despite the core being bothersome to premed requirements and the med school far away, would mean less competition and perhaps even less aggressive competition (the school is dominated by humanities majors). I thought Columbia premeds do very well in getting in to top of the top med schools, at least proportionally (since the number of premeds is far smaller).

But now, I am reading how premeds don't like it there (supposedly). The social life is miserable. Are premeds (or undergrads in general) neglected there? It seems UPenn is a premed heaven.

Should I attempt to enroll in UPenn between now and the start of the semester? Am I wrong to doubt Columbia? Initially I had the impression UPenn would mean harder science courses, more premed competition, and thus worse med school prospects. After reading these and other forums, however, it seems I may have set myself up for a much harder life.

You sound naive, arrogant, and terribly boring. That is all.

 

[unsurechoice]

Scary as in an unfriendly, hostile school environment. I do not mean to sound arrogant. i know the competition at both places is insane, but I only meant to discern which, if any, school was less competitive, or at least more conducive to success.

It probably does come off as conceited in saying that Columbia/Penn were far from my top choices, but it's frustrating to see peers go to your top choices with half the effort and incredibly fortunate circumstances (legacy, recruited athlete, connections, etc.).

I concede to you that I may be terribly boring.

I guess I'll do my best at Columbia, now knowing it doesn't really make a difference where I go.

 

[Slack3r]

Scary as in an unfriendly, hostile school environment. I do not mean to sound arrogant. i know the competition at both places is insane, but I only meant to discern which, if any, school was less competitive, or at least more conducive to success.

Psst, don't go to an Ivy League school.

but it's frustrating to see peers go to your top choices with half the effort and incredibly fortunate circumstances (legacy, recruited athlete, connections, etc.

 

[Xodus]

It probably does come off as conceited in saying that Columbia/Penn were far from my top choices, but it's frustrating to see peers go to your top choices with half the effort and incredibly fortunate circumstances (legacy, recruited athlete, connections, etc.).

This scenario literally plays out for every high achiever who doesn't have legacy or connections nor is a stud athlete. Unfortunately you're no different, except in the sense that you think the world owes you something--which it doesn't.

 

[courtnes]

I'd take UMass-Amherst over either. It's the Harvard of Massachusetts.

Isn't Harvard the Harvard of Massachusetts?

 

[Narmerguy]

Isn't Harvard the Harvard of Massachusetts?

Sarcasm.