understanding match lists

[Crazy4F1]

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hi 🙂 i tried to do a search on this with no luck, so forgive me if i've missed a thread already explaining this.

how do i interpret the match list of a school? i was recently told that there's a difference between certain types of "competitive" residencies - ones that are 'academic' vs. 'nonacademic'? (no idea what that means!). could someone please break this down for me? (or point me in the direction of a thread that's already explained it )

thanks! 🙂

 

[Biscuit799]

It's really tough to interpret any match list without really knowing that class on a personal level. Every year so far at my class, there's been one specialty that was really popular. Two years ago it was EM, last year it was General Surgery, and this year it was Internal Med. Can you say one class was more "competitive" than another? Certainly not. And without knowing each individual program that members of a class matched at, you can't really interpret how "well" that class did. Basically I wouldn't read too much into the match list as a whole. If you're trying to decide between schools, I'd first and foremost choose where you'll be happy. You can match anything from anywhere. Next, I'd consider how well they cater to students who want to do clinical practice vs. research. You'll be miserable dealing w/ standardized patients if you just want to be in a lab. After that, I'd base it on academics AS A WHOLE. You'll probably change your mind several times before you graduate, so how well a school does at training ER physicians doesn't help you when you decide to go for ortho.

 

[psipsina]

Can't be done. People don't go into the most competitive specialty possible with their scores or rank the most prestigious program first because many more personal things go into these types of decisions. Unless you know someone you have no idea what motivated or what limited their choice. You also won't know which programs really are more prestigious or less malignant and therefore more desireable because it doesn't = name recognition at this level of the game. Also you don't know how much of an individuals success is because they just rock as an individual and would have rocked at any medschool and how much of it is because their medschool prepped them well. For instance, columbia matched multiple people into Barrow Institute Neurosurg (very very cool), however, were these students just awesome people, obviously columbia only lets in pretty awsome motivated smart people, so would these kids still have done this if they were at a mid tier or maybe even an unranked state, who knows? Point being there is very very little useful information that one can glean from a match list so make your decision based on something more concrete and tangible.

 

[njbmd]

so how well a school does at training ER physicians doesn't help you when you decide to go for ortho.

While the above is true keep in mind that medical schools do not train EM, ortho or any other specialty. Residency programs do this which is why any accredited medical school can produce graduates who may enter any specialty provided they have the grades and board scores.

Choosing a school based on Match Lists is not particularly helpful. Application to residency programs is individual and self-selective. If a particular school has 50 graduates who enter orthopedic surgery, it means that 50 people that year were interested in orthopedic surgery and did well enough with their studies to enter that particular specialty. It does not mean that the medical school trained them in ortho.

Choose the school that you feel will prepare you best for whatever specialty you elect to enter and not based on the choices of a class of students who will have graduated by the time you matriculate. Choose a medical school based on what you feel is important to your learning style and where you can excell in your academics. If you are a good student with strong academics (grades and boards), you can choose whatever specialty interests you can match when the time comes.

Match lists are helpful in identifying grads from your school that may be good contacts in whatever specialty you choose.

 

[Crazy4F1]

thanks guys 🙂 i'm not really trying to pick a school based on match lists - i know where i want to be already, regardless 😀 i guess my question is really...they always hand out a copy of the latest match list whenever you go anywhere near the admissions office, whether its for an accepted student day or an interview or an open house, you name it. and people seem to get so excited over the number of ortho, derm, etc placements, meanwhile others are scoffing at the number of internal medicine or primary care or whatever. none of it means that much to me at this point, so just trying to get a general sense of it all. thanks again for the input 🙂

 

[Biscuit799]

While the above is true keep in mind that medical schools do not train EM, ortho or any other specialty. Residency programs do this which is why any accredited medical school can produce graduates who may enter any specialty provided they have the grades and board scores.

Choosing a school based on Match Lists is not particularly helpful. Application to residency programs is individual and self-selective. If a particular school has 50 graduates who enter orthopedic surgery, it means that 50 people that year were interested in orthopedic surgery and did well enough with their studies to enter that particular specialty. It does not mean that the medical school trained them in ortho.

Choose the school that you feel will prepare you best for whatever specialty you elect to enter and not based on the choices of a class of students who will have graduated by the time you matriculate. Choose a medical school based on what you feel is important to your learning style and where you can excell in your academics. If you are a good student with strong academics (grades and boards), you can choose whatever specialty interests you can match when the time comes.

Match lists are helpful in identifying grads from your school that may be good contacts in whatever specialty you choose.

True. I was merely being succinct, apparently at the loss of clarity; good catch. Allow me to elaborate.

More accurate: If you really want to go into EM right now, you might choose a school bc they have a match list high in both volume and prestige of EM placement. However that would be a mistake because the school's placement of individuals into EM is more of a reflection on the class, and not the school. Also, you will probably switch. So 3 years from now when you want to go into ortho, having chosen that school bc of a match list full of EM placements will have done you no good.

 

[Biscuit799]

thanks guys 🙂 i'm not really trying to pick a school based on match lists - i know where i want to be already, regardless 😀 i guess my question is really...they always hand out a copy of the latest match list whenever you go anywhere near the admissions office, whether its for an accepted student day or an interview or an open house, you name it. and people seem to get so excited over the number of ortho, derm, etc placements, meanwhile others are scoffing at the number of internal medicine or primary care or whatever. none of it means that much to me at this point, so just trying to get a general sense of it all. thanks again for the input 🙂

Good stuff.

Yeah, I htink the only thing you can really get out of a match list is a) the preferences of that particular class, and b) how much the school focuses on primary care. USUALLY, more prestigious schools will emphasize research more, and thus produce students that go into more research oriented specialties (ophtho, derm, etc). Other schools will emphasize clinical skills over research, and will thus produce more clinicians (primary care, EM, sometimes surg, etc). I think the only real job of a premed is to choose a school based on which avenue they think they want to pursue, and beyond that just go where you'll be happy.

Congrats on getting in and knowing where you want to go!👍

 

[Law2Doc]

thanks guys 🙂 i'm not really trying to pick a school based on match lists - i know where i want to be already, regardless 😀 i guess my question is really...they always hand out a copy of the latest match list whenever you go anywhere near the admissions office, whether its for an accepted student day or an interview or an open house, you name it. and people seem to get so excited over the number of ortho, derm, etc placements, meanwhile others are scoffing at the number of internal medicine or primary care or whatever. none of it means that much to me at this point, so just trying to get a general sense of it all. thanks again for the input 🙂

Premeds are lemmings. Don't fall for the hype. Schools give out those lists because there will always be a nice range of matches for premeds to get excited about, notwithstanding that it is fairly impossible to assess whether it is a "good" list, based on the reasons others indicated above. It, at best, just shows folks that someone from this school was able to get into, say, derm. I would look at these lists as interesting, but not particularly useful. The coolness of the school T-shirts in the book store are a far more helpful way to select a school IMHO.🙂

 

[Crazy4F1]

well, i guess since i already have a cool t-shirt, i must be all set. 😀

so for now (in my attempts to not be a lemming), i know that i'm not really interested in primary care, and i'm going to a school that ranks on the US News list for "research", but not on the one for "primary care". is that all i should really care about at this point? i figure the match lists will probably make a lot more sense to me after i've taken the boards and know what a "good" board score is for the kinds of specialties (something surgical, i hope) that i want to do.

thanks for all the help. i have aspirations of being a laid back totally unconcerned pre-med someday soon 😎

 

[pillowhead]

Premeds are lemmings. Don't fall for the hype. Schools give out those lists because there will always be a nice range of matches for premeds to get excited about, notwithstanding that it is fairly impossible to assess whether it is a "good" list, based on the reasons others indicated above. It, at best, just shows folks that someone from this school was able to get into, say, derm. I would look at these lists as interesting, but not particularly useful. The coolness of the school T-shirts in the book store are a far more helpful way to select a school IMHO.🙂

That's just plain old silly to scoff at folks for going into internal medicine because the vast majority of folks I know doing IM are doing it as a gateway to heme/onc, pulm/critical care, cardiology, etc. At any rate, even if all of these same people were going into interal medicine to do outpatient primary care for the rest of their lives, more power to them. We need more good internists.

You really cannot interpret match lists. The only thing I could see them being useful for is that generally, some schools will turn out more primary care folks (although like I said, you cannot even assume folks going into peds and IM are going to do primary care) while others will have the majority of people into more specialized fields like ortho, derm, gen surg, urology, EM, etc. To some extent, I believe the school plays a role in this, but keep in mind, people drawn to primary care will go to schools known for primary care in the first place (like ECU, U Washington, Mercer, etc).

Probably the majority of my class is staying the southeast for residency. Is this because they couldn't get into programs elsewhere? Definitely not--we're sending folks to Mass Gen, Brigham (both Harvard affiliated), Yale UCSF, U. of Washington, UCI, Brown, Hawaii, etc. It's just that my school is in the southeast and lots of people have family in the southeast and don't want to be a day's plane ride away from them for a variety of reasons. We've also come to appreciate warm weather and don't want to trudge to work through feet of snow on a regular basis.

Bottom line--it's really not possible for you to interpret because you don't know why people pick certain geographic locations and you don't know why people are going into certain fields. Plus as a premed, you definitely don't even know what qualifies as a good residency program. (Here's a hint--it ain't all US News and World report rankings.) I don't know why med schools really even bother showing the lists on interview days.

 

[Critical Mass]

Understand that a mid-20's MS 4 has a lot on his/her mind when deciding on a residency program--family, lifestyle, region of preference, etc. just to name a few. Know that where a student wants to go is the primary factor in deciphering a match list. It's unrealistic to think that you can glean much from a match list so early in your training.

 

[Long Dong]

Understand that a mid-20's MS 4 has a lot on his/her mind when deciding on a residency program--family, lifestyle, region of preference, etc. just to name a few. Know that where a student wants to go is the primary factor in deciphering a match list. It's unrealistic to think that you can glean much from a match list so early in your training.

Who are the hot girls in your avator? Hook a brother up.

 

[Law2Doc]

That's just plain old silly to scoff at folks for going into internal medicine because the vast majority of folks I know doing IM are doing it as a gateway to heme/onc, pulm/critical care, cardiology, etc.

Was this directed to my post? I'm not aware that I did scoff, or even mention IM in my post.😕

 

[Critical Mass]

Who are the hot girls in your avator? Hook a brother up.

They are random midsection shots that I get off of google. I should convert over to a slide show one of these days.

 

[Crazy4F1]

sorry, the word "scoff" probably came from me - me making fun of people who look down their noses on primary care, because i find it unnecessary for them to be doing that (especially as premeds!).

i guess the reason i asked in the first place is so many premeds seem to be able (or think they are able?) to pick up a match list and go "wow! this place is incredible, look how many people matched in X" or "oh, this place is ok, too many people only wanted to do Y". and i thought i'd missed the boat on something that i should understand by now. either way, now i know that isnt the case i'll be quite content to go on not knowing until i need to know.

the most important thing? i may have just found the perfect apartment 5 minutes walk from my school for next year, and the landlord sounds as excited to meet me as i am to see the apartment. fingers crossed! 😀

thanks again for all the advice. i'm going to stop worrying and get back to enjoying my senioritis 🙂

 

[Critical Mass]

sorry, the word "scoff" probably came from me - me making fun of people who look down their noses on primary care, because i find it unnecessary for them to be doing that (especially as premeds!).

i guess the reason i asked in the first place is so many premeds seem to be able (or think they are able?) to pick up a match list and go "wow! this place is incredible, look how many people matched in X" or "oh, this place is ok, too many people only wanted to do Y". and i thought i'd missed the boat on something that i should understand by now. either way, now i know that isnt the case i'll be quite content to go on not knowing until i need to know.

the most important thing? i may have just found the perfect apartment 5 minutes walk from my school for next year, and the landlord sounds as excited to meet me as i am to see the apartment. fingers crossed! 😀

thanks again for all the advice. i'm going to stop worrying and get back to enjoying my senioritis 🙂

👍

I'm a firm believer that you should eat what is on your plate first and then move on from there. It seems to be in vogue to bash primary care, but I can assure you that few if any of the pre-allo's accepted into 2011 classes told the adcoms that they were definitely not considering primary care.