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So those are two brand new D-Schools, thus not much is known about either one. If anyone who has any knowledge about either one would like to share some thoughts :)
 

ellipticalmodular

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Would you rather get a diploma without the word osteopathic or go to the trouble of whiting it out?
 
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May 29, 2014
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I am actually referring to dental schools! sorry for the confusion
 
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I don't know much about une, but I didn't hate Lecom when I interviewed there last year. Scout around on the forums, there are many, many threads that go into heated debates about Lecom (check the class of 2018 thread last year). Ultimately, I don't think you'll find your education at either school drastically different. For this decision I'd base it on cost and where you'd rather live.
 
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DentalFox

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The learning style for UNE and Lecom are different though.
 

DreamingOfDentistry

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I have repeatedly been told by heads of admissions from state schools that these For Profit dental schools will not prepare you clinically. They set their own competency reqs for lets say Crowns and they can say "Oh if you've done four crowns, you're solid." No dentist in their right mind would say you are prepared after having done four crowns. For instance UAB expects you do to 35 crowns by the time you graduate. You come out of there super prepared. You probably can't say the same for these for profit schools. Dental schools make little money from the actual dental work done on patients. These for profit schools are expensive and pad their pockets with that money rather than requiring you to do more clinical work. Honestly, If it was the only place I got accepted to, I would go, but I would then have to deal with the consequences of not being clinically prepared leaving Dental school and will have to tell my employers up front that I will be needing a lot of their guidance along the way. Just my $0.02.
 

Bis-GMA111

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I have repeatedly been told by heads of admissions from state schools that these For Profit dental schools will not prepare you clinically. They set their own competency reqs for lets say Crowns and they can say "Oh if you've done four crowns, you're solid." No dentist in their right mind would say you are prepared after having done four crowns. For instance UAB expects you do to 35 crowns by the time you graduate. You come out of there super prepared. You probably can't say the same for these for profit schools. Dental schools make little money from the actual dental work done on patients. These for profit schools are expensive and pad their pockets with that money rather than requiring you to do more clinical work. Honestly, If it was the only place I got accepted to, I would go, but I would then have to deal with the consequences of not being clinically prepared leaving Dental school and will have to tell my employers up front that I will be needing a lot of their guidance along the way. Just my $0.02.
@DreamingOfDentistry

first thing is first: any representative from a school will more than likely tell you why their school is better than any other school...that's just good marketing.

second of all: there is no such thing as a ''for profit'' dental school--there are non-state schools..which are private schools. assuming that those admission heads consider 'for profit' and private to be synonymous then i'd like to say that as someone who goes to a private school--and one of the oldest dental schools in the country mind you, i can tell you that's completely untrue. our clinical requirements are pretty extensive, and i'd be willing to bet a good majority of anyone from my school would have more clinical prowess than anyone from UAB and their '35 crown requirement'..which isn't much. Not to insult UAB though, since they've been at the forefront of dental microbio research for quite some time.
 
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Bis-GMA111

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also, i wanna add that if ''for profit'' refers to the newer dental schools...then i think it's pretty premature to pass off any kind of judgment since these schools have literally just started.

on a side note though, i do remember newer schools like lecom and western were just bread and butter general dentistry with little to no specialist assistance...so there's that.

at a normal dental school, if there's an extensive issue that requires, say, an endo consult...that department might just be a couple of floors above your clinic.

not to dismiss the quality of the newer schools but.... if your school doesn't have in house specialties, you have your students 'rotate' in offsite clinics to get the proper exposure . seems like a hassle to me.
 
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DreamingOfDentistry

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No, for profit is not synonymous with Private. Two totally different things.For profit schools (call it what you want) like LECOM, Midestern, UNE, Roseman have been popping up lately. The dean of Roseman left without notice not too long ago because things were very disorganized (so I've heard). Like I said, I would go to these places (I applied to some) but you definitely will not be prepared like schools that have been around for a long time and have set high standards. Lol 35 isn't much? its a **** ton more than 4 is all I'm saying. Also Im not a ******* who has no clue about "good marketing" This admissions person I spoke to knew i had no plans to go to their school considering they were out of state and very competitive. So I highly doubt they're swaying me the wrong way, but of course I take things with a grain of salt which is why I have asked more people including another dean of admissions. And even speaking to other dentists, you will find this to be the case. These schools outsource their clinics and their teachings and that's a major concern because you can't guarantee the oversight as well. I'm just stating what I heard from these people. And I would be ignorant to not heed their advice/warnings when I plan to spend a quarter of a million dollars on a dental education. (Or i hope to anyway :p )
 

jeffity

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Very broad statements. You're essentially throwing all new schools into one category and making assumptions. "I heard..." is a weak argument. Especially when some of what you're saying doesn't make sense. Things just don't work that way. You're ignorant to heed their advice/warnings without doing some homework of your own.
 
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Bis-GMA111

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No, for profit is not synonymous with Private. Two totally different things.For profit schools (call it what you want) like LECOM, Midestern, UNE, Roseman have been popping up lately. The dean of Roseman left without notice not too long ago because things were very disorganized (so I've heard). Like I said, I would go to these places (I applied to some) but you definitely will not be prepared like schools that have been around for a long time and have set high standards. Lol 35 isn't much? its a **** ton more than 4 is all I'm saying. Also Im not a ******* who has no clue about "good marketing" This admissions person I spoke to knew i had no plans to go to their school considering they were out of state and very competitive. So I highly doubt they're swaying me the wrong way, but of course I take things with a grain of salt which is why I have asked more people including another dean of admissions. And even speaking to other dentists, you will find this to be the case. These schools outsource their clinics and their teachings and that's a major concern because you can't guarantee the oversight as well. I'm just stating what I heard from these people. And I would be ignorant to not heed their advice/warnings when I plan to spend a quarter of a million dollars on a dental education. (Or i hope to anyway :p )
OK, so let's clarify this again. there are no 'for profit' dental schools. it's not a matter of 'call it what you want'. they are filed and accredited as non-profit institutions...idk what point you're trying to make. the university of phoenix, devry, etc. are FOR PROFIT institutions. they have filed themselves as such. so again, 'for profit' does not equal new school. these new schools are a part of a larger university system, which sought to expand their program offerings. yes you can say that they are 'for profit' in the sense that they generate revenue for the university and put the university 'on the map' so to speak recognition wise, but that's about it. a non profit organization has strict requirements regarding its fund usage, so a bunch of administrators can't take all the $$ for themselves. the $$ gets put back into the university to benefit the program.

but i agree with you 100%, outsourcing your clinical requirements is a major concern, and it's something that i don't agree with at all.
 
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Bis-GMA111

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and if you talk to other dentists, what are they going to tell you? save your $$ and go to the cheapest school that you can. it doesn't matter if it's a new school or not. because at the end of the day, you'll have your dds/dmd
 

DreamingOfDentistry

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http://mydigimag.rrd.com/article/Controversial_Trends_in_New_Dental_Schools/856519/83612/article.html

http://macyfoundation.org/grantees/profile/new-models-for-dental-education

Of course they're not accredited as "For Profit" but doesn't mean they can't behave like so to an extent.
if you wouldn't call outsourcing your clinics and throwing the label "community based clinics" while charging exorbitant tuition fees FOR profit then yeah I guess we just agree to disagree. That's that folks. As a student trying to go to dental school, these schools definitely make me weary.
 

Bis-GMA111

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http://mydigimag.rrd.com/article/Controversial_Trends_in_New_Dental_Schools/856519/83612/article.html

http://macyfoundation.org/grantees/profile/new-models-for-dental-education

Of course they're not accredited as "For Profit" but doesn't mean they can't behave like so to an extent.
if you wouldn't call outsourcing your clinics and throwing the label "community based clinics" while charging exorbitant tuition fees FOR profit then yeah I guess we just agree to disagree. That's that folks. As a student trying to go to dental school, these schools definitely make me weary.
boston university was the first to implement this kind of a program (APEX) when they opened up in the 60s. what's your point?

i think you really misunderstand what 'for profit' means. this sums it up decently

http://www.franklin.edu/blog/non-profit-vs-for-profit-colleges-what-you-need-to-know/

it's simple: dental schools that cannot provide resources will ensure that they can by outsourcing. they have to pay for these clinics too, you know. or if they don't open up their own clinics, they pay other clinics to house their students.

don't get me wrong though, every dental school benefits monetarily from its students. you are an investment to the school. they want to educate you, but they also want to make sure that you'll pass their standards. they picked you to attend because they thought that you could 1. get through the program without hassles (i.e. why they put emphasis on grades, and DAT scores) 2. make the school look good by going above in beyond in research, doing well on the boards, etc.

by that logic, all schools are ''for profit''.
 
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DreamingOfDentistry

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it does matter whether or not i have my DMD and am clinically qualified. I want to know I'm qualified and have confidence in my work. From what it appears, this seems to be a concern with these schools. i don't want to go try to be an associate and ruin a reputation of a practice because I am a shoddy dentist. But why would you call these schools not " for profit"? Maybe I put too much credence in these qualified admissions people but it seems like its a collective worry of these people so I kind of believe what they're saying. Convince me otherwise please. I'm all ears. I'm not trying to be facetious either.
 

Bis-GMA111

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it does matter whether or not i have my DMD and am clinically qualified. I want to know I'm qualified and have confidence in my work. From what it appears, this seems to be a concern with these schools. i don't want to go try to be an associate and ruin a reputation of a practice because I am a shoddy dentist. But why would you call these schools not " for profit"? Maybe I put too much credence in these qualified admissions people but it seems like its a collective worry of these people so I kind of believe what they're saying. Convince me otherwise please. I'm all ears. I'm not trying to be facetious either.
read my post above yours. i understand where you're coming from.

running a dental school like a business makes the university as a whole, more profitable...that doesn't classify it as a 'for profit' institution. when the university generates more revenue, which might be evident with this off site clinic model, they take that $$ and pour it back into the school via hiring faculty, upgrading facilities, etc. that's why is it a NON profit institution. the revenue generated is put back into the school.

a for profit institution's sole goal is to make $$ at whatever cost, and to make the owning firm/stakeholders happy. that's the bottom line. whatever profit is made doesn't always have to go back into making the school/program better. there's more liberty to do what you want with that revenue.

these new parent universities saw this boom in dentist demand and decided to open dental schools, which would have been easier to do b/c they have medical school programs and pharmacy school programs. they saw an opportunity, and cashed in on it. that doesn't make them 'for profit'.

if you have a chance, look up Rocky Vista osteopathic medical school. it's to my knowledge, the only for profit health professional school in the country. started by 1 businessman who opened up medical schools throughout the caribbean.
 

Bis-GMA111

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i'm also going to say this: where you go makes no difference. spend the least amount of $$ you can, take advantage of residencies, and CE courses when you're done. the real learning happens in private practice.

to address your concern that you made before: any 1 dentist can make a school look great/bad. every school will have great dentists and not-so-great dentists. that's just the bottom line. so again--where you go doesn't matter.
 
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DreamingOfDentistry

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Well thanks for the advice. I know residencies are a great opportunity to get in extra practice after school to build up confidence. The admissions people seem to think they'll be popping out mid level providers (i think thats what he said, which I'm assuming he thinks due to their large class sizes) On one of the articles i cites it stated something about two for profits. Not sure which those are though; I don't think it specified.
 

Bis-GMA111

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Well thanks for the advice. I know residencies are a great opportunity to get in extra practice after school to build up confidence. The admissions people seem to think they'll be popping out mid level providers (i think thats what he said, which I'm assuming he thinks due to their large class sizes) On one of the articles i cites it stated something about two for profits. Not sure which those are though; I don't think it specified.
mid level providers---yea that's a whole other ballgame. rest assured though, the dean of lecom i know for a fact hates mid level providers with a passion.

if you're a dentist, chances are you'll probably not like the idea at all (not to say there aren't dentists who approve of it)...i have yet to come across a dentist who has said "i want dental therapists/midlevel providers''. it's a threat to our profession, to be honest.