UNECOM vs Touro-CA

[Silent Cool]

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If you had to make the decision, which would you pick? I'm in at both. Trying to decide.

thanx
sc
😎

 

[J-Rad]

1. Where are you from?
2. If you like where you're from, and want to be reasonably close to family/friends/familiar environs, which of those two schools brings you closest (farther away if you don't want to be near home)
3. Do you like winter?

There are probably no substantive differences in cost (though COL probably is somewhat less in Maine, but tuition is 2K more/year currently at UNE) or academics to make anything other than those two things deciding factors between the two.

 

[Ost3oclast]

I heard touro-CA is having some 3rd year rotation problems at the moment. Not sure if this is still true. That was the one thing holding me back from applying there.

 

[MedPR]

Unecom.

 

[Silent Cool]

Hey Med,

Any reason?


thanx

 

[pattr]

If you had to make the decision, which would you pick? I'm in at both. Trying to decide.

thanx
sc
😎

Touro-CA's strongest points are the global health program and the OMM department. I'm not sure about UNECOM, but Touro is big on OMM (training is one of the best) and Dr. John Glover is our department chair and he is very well-known when it comes to osteopathic circles. He won the AT Still Medallion of Honor which is pretty much the highest honor a DO can receive: http://www.academyofosteopathy.org/MbrNews/AT_STILL_AwardInfo-Form.pdf. Research at Touro is also decent.

If you want a residency in CA, you should choose Touro. There are some problems with the rotations as noted above but there are also some very solid rotation sites available for third year as well.

 

[Silent Cool]

Touro-CA's strongest points are the global health program and the OMM department. I'm not sure about UNECOM, but Touro is big on OMM (training is one of the best) and Dr. John Glover is our department chair and he is very well-known when it comes to osteopathic circles. He won the AT Still Medallion of Honor which is pretty much the highest honor a DO can receive: http://www.academyofosteopathy.org/MbrNews/AT_STILL_AwardInfo-Form.pdf. Research at Touro is also decent.

If you want a residency in CA, you should choose Touro. There are some problems with the rotations as noted above but there are also some very solid rotation sites available for third year as well.

Hey Pattr,

Thanks a lot. Are you a student at Touro-CA? Do you know what the school is doing to improve the rotation sites? Also, would you by chance happen to know what the better rotation sites are?

Thanks a lot for your input--I appreciate it.
sc
😎

 

[Silent Cool]

I'd pick Touro if you're interested in research. My friend was in a UCSF lab for a few years. Got some pretty good HIV related publications.

Triage,

thanks for the heads-up. I noticed on your profile that you are not applying to TUCOM-CA. Any particular reason?

thanx
😎

 

[TriagePreMed]

Triage,

thanks for the heads-up. I noticed on your profile that you are not applying to TUCOM-CA. Any particular reason?

thanx
😎

I don't have the money for the fee right now, but I will be pretty soon.

 

[qwerty2012]

I would go for touro-ca, more options available.
Plus nice rotations spots.

 

[Silent Cool]

If you had to make the decision, which would you pick? I'm in at both. Trying to decide.

thanx
sc
😎

Update: I should have picked UNECOM.

 

[NontradCA]

Update: I should have picked UNECOM.

 

[Hemorrage]

Update: I should have picked UNECOM.

😕😕😕

 

[Back 5]

Can't leave us hanging OP.

 

[chiddler]

omgomg THE SUSPENSE!

 

[Roxas]

I saw a couple posts a few months ago about a current UNECOM student who could not say enough bad things about UNE's administration and curriculum. How seriously should posts like this be taken? Or is this a ploy people on waitlists use to get accepted students scared and change their mind?

 

[Silent Cool]

NontradCA,

You make a good point with your graphic. I like it a lot, actually. (Where did you find it?)

Sometimes, however, the grass actually is greener. I know that green grass is often a mirage, but I have a number of issues to justify my opinions, namely the quality:cost ratio and other issues.

 

[Silent Cool]

Can't leave us hanging OP.

I received an email yesterday from another SDN'er (I won't say who, of course) asking me this:

"Saw your thread on UNECOM vs. Touro CA. Why did you end last saying you should have picked UNECOM? I am applying this year and had been hoping to get into touro for location

Thanks"

Here is my response:

I have multiple reasons for saying that. The first is that Touro is just flat-out an incredibly disorganized school; it's not even a real school, if you ask me. UNECOM is part of a real, well-recognized university. There is an abundance of research at UNECOM and other amenities that a large university (with undergrads, other major grad programs, and other major professional programs) has to offer. Touro, however, is really just non-for-profit in name but functionally for-profit.

The school does not record lectures: student volunteers instead have to record the lectures and upload them on the Touro website. Even my advisor here told me that, twenty years ago, where she went to school (DMU) the medical students had recorded lectures with audio and video. 20 years ago! Touro is just too cheap to do it IMO. (Did you know the president of the Touro system made 4-5 million bucks a couple years back?)


The school's dining options are worse than pathetic. There is a tiny cafeteria that opens for a few hours per day and doesn't even take credit cards. Cash or check only. At UNECOM, there is a beautiful, gourmet, all-you-can-eat cafeteria (under 5 bucks!) right next to the main medical school building. Let me say it again: all you can eat! Salad bar, many different entrees, tons of drinks, build your own sandwich, etc..., the list goes on (and like the rest of the modern world they take credit card). When I interviewed there, I was in heaven. The food options might sound like a trivial concern, but eating is a major expense as a student and it can take a lot of time to make food. Having an extremely high-quality (and DIRT CHEAP) cafeteria like the one at UNECOM will make your life exponentially easier and will help you save 1000's per year on food.

The campus at UNECOM is also beautiful and is very safe. Maine in general has a low crime rate. The cost of living there is very low. While UNECOM isn't in the most exciting location, neither is Touro, and Touro's location to boot is extremely dangerous (off the island). There is absolutely nothing redeeming about Vallejo: it's crime rate is worse than that of Compton.

Here's the crime index for Vallejo: http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/vallejo/crime/

Here's the crime index for Compton: http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/compton/crime/

Check out number six on this list:
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45lmhg/6-vallejo-calif/

Check out the crimereports map for Vallejo and Biddeford (Maine):
https://www.crimereports.com/

And for all the pomp about Touro being "in the bay area," that's hardly true--it is at least an hour's drive to any place worthwhile, or any place that would make you feel you are in the bay area. In not much more time, you could drive down from Maine to Boston. Vallejo by contrast makes my fiance feel extremely unsafe. Check out this little gem of an article:

http://sfist.com/2013/02/28/once_again_this_week_the.php

(Incidents like this are NOT uncommon in the area)

Your time is at a premium in medical school and, unfortunately, Touro wastes a lot of it. The curriculum is one of the most disorganized **** shows I have ever laid eyes upon. I assure you I am not alone is this opinion. Don't have any illusions of spending your time as you see it during the first couple of years. Nearly every day has some sort of mandatory attendance small-group BS that will require you to be present--that means you can't realistically live in "the bay area" (or even enjoy it). Practically speaking, you need to be close by. There is also no public transit to the island, so you can forget about saving money by taking the bus or whatever.

Another issue is that, initially, Touro was about 5K cheaper. Well now they have increased tuition, and meanwhile UNECOM put in place a tuition cap at ~50K. I have no doubt that next year Touro and UNECOM will equal each other in cost, and while UNECOM's tuition cap helps students, Touro will keep raising its tuition--and the cost of living here is much higher, in terms of taxes and housing.

Touro is also notorious for having very poor rotations. They farm students out to a variety of hospitals (which is what most DO schools do), but most of these sites are of dubious quality. The best place to be for rotations is probably Arrowhead hospital at Western. Rotations are awarded on a lottery system; what will I do if I can't get some place reasonably close and my fiance is here for a job? Like I said--the school is a **** show.

My fiance has been incredibly disappointed with living here. The closest places that are a reasonable commute would be Benicia or perhaps Emeryville, which is where Pixar is located and has a nice bunch of shops, places to live, etc...

I came here because I thought being in CA would be "all that" and I figured that the bay area (heh...not so much) would be better for me and my fiance. Boy was I wrong. I would have been better off in Maine, where I could have lived cheaply and she could have lived in Boston (where she really wanted to be anyway).

I would say if you have any choice besides Touro--TAKE IT. Hell, even if this is your only option, defer your acceptance and re-apply early the next year.

That covers most of it, I suppose. Let me know if you want to know anything else. I would be happy to help you out.

-sc

Edit:

Here's one copy-and-paste from our class's facebook page re: violent crime.

Classmate 1: Please be extra careful when out and about in Vallejo! I've been reading a little too many stories about shootings around here lately :/

http://www.timesheraldonline.com/ci...t-vallejo-within-few-hours?source=most_viewed

Three people shot in Vallejo within a few hours
www.timesheraldonline.com

Classmate 2: I could hear multiple gun shots Saturday from Touro campus parking lot around midnight....followed by screams...that was a sign to leave and go home.

Classmate 3: ...from across the river I hope. (well I don't actually hope that either, but you get what Im saying)

Classmate 4: Yup. Vallejo is a stye. Here's my personal, uh, 'favorite' : http://www.timesheraldonline.com/ci_22686315

Classmate 5: 🙁

Classmate 4: Or as Axl would say, "welcome to the jungle."

Classmate 6: F u * k k n g vallejo

Classmate 7: Keep your head on a swivel, watch your six, don't text and walk, and carry a powerful firearm on your hip.

Edit 2:

"Bernard Lander, founder of Touro College, received compensation of more than $4 million in 2008, making him the top-paid private college president that year."

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/11/15/private-college-presidents-rake-in-millions-of-dollars/

"Lander earned five times more than the presidents of Harvard, Princeton and Johns Hopkins, who were all paid close to $800,000, the survey said."

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/school_for_candal_mbbDFFez46nlSqWmCJwu5L


Now of course, private university presidents make a lot, but this isn't exactly Harvard, Stanford, or Yale--you get the idea. This is a podunk Osteopathic school. I would be cool with paying these prices for Yale and watching Yale's prez earn 4 mil+. Not so much for Touro. I've tried to make clear that Touro is run by cheapskates and is, functionally, just a business.

 

[Back 5]

Sorry you're having such a tough time man 🙁

Do you feel you will receive a high quality education regardless of the trials experienced?

 

[Silent Cool]

Sorry you're having such a tough time man 🙁

Do you feel you will receive a high quality education regardless of the trials experienced?

To a large degree, "education is what you make of it." But the gross inefficiency, disorganization, dearth of technology, poor rotation/clinical opportunities, awful location and horribly overpriced tuition of Touro significantly negate even my best efforts and most efficient time-management skills. It also kills my enthusiasm.

Check out Touro's match list history. Compared to more reputable DO schools like PCOM, TCOM and Western, its match list sucks. It has always been unimpressive (more or less; there are a few notable exceptions, such as the student who matched Allo N-surg a couple years back). Consider, though, that Touro's residency placement will probably worsen with the coming residency crunch. As it is, the school's third-year rotations are of dubious quality; couple that with the stagnant number of residency slots, the 'no-name' hospitals at which most Touro students will complete their 3rd year rotations, and the fact that better residency programs (especially ACGME) will not be impressed by no-name community hospital physician letterhead and you have a recipe for low quality and low-level career opportunities.

Now, match lists to some degree are dependent on the student and not the school--but there is only so much one can do to over come a poorly organized curriculum and lackluster clinical opportunities. Of course, if you are one of what I call the "OMM Freaks" (throw that good banner to the wind, A.T. Still! ) then you will care about none of this because you will of course be in 7th heaven when you match into AOA family care in Alaska, or North Dakota, or some other awful place. As I said in a different thread, attending a DO school means paying top-shelf prices and putting forth top-shelf effort for bottom-shelf opportunities. This is exaggerated even more at Touro because the opportunities here are overall crap or simply non-existent.

USC for instance used to take a number of DO grads (including Touro's!) into its IM program. USC is not the most prestigious IM program, but it has always been regarded as a program that will f u k k i n g *prepare* you for real, cold-hard clinical practice. Now, unfortunately, they are very reluctant to take DOs I believe as a result of a management/policy change (please do a search for this on SDN--it has been written about and described in more detail more accurately than I can convey). The DO students who have the best chances at USC-IM now are probably those at Western, which is a much better DO school in every way. The point being, don't look to match lists from even just a few years ago to indicate what you might be able to match, because with policy changes, expanding MD programs, stagnant ACGME programs, etc.., this will probably not the be the case. Again, if you would be happy with a simple AOA residency...ignore and help make Touro's president the highest-paid in the nation.

 

[pattr]

I'm a fourth year at Touro-CA... I don't feel this assessment of our school is consistent with my experience at all. Just wanted to say that.

The campus at UNECOM is also beautiful and is very safe. Maine in general has a low crime rate. The cost of living there is very low. While UNECOM isn't in the most exciting location, neither is Touro, and Touro's location to boot is extremely dangerous (off the island). There is absolutely nothing redeeming about Vallejo: it's crime rate is worse than that of Compton.

...My fiance has been incredibly disappointed with living here. The closest places that are a reasonable commute would be Benicia or perhaps Emeryville, which is where Pixar is located and has a nice bunch of shops, places to live, etc...

Vallejo is a very poor city and so it has high crime rates. I'm sorry if you can't handle that.

"Bernard Lander, founder of Touro College, received compensation of more than $4 million in 2008, making him the top-paid private college president that year."

...Now of course, private university presidents make a lot, but this isn't exactly Harvard, Stanford, or Yale--you get the idea. This is a podunk Osteopathic school. I would be cool with paying these prices for Yale and watching Yale's prez earn 4 mil+. Not so much for Touro. I've tried to make clear that Touro is run by cheapskates and is, functionally, just a business.

You are a student at an osteopathic medical school. You cannot change how much the president of Touro makes. You likely didn't get into Yale med or you would have gone there... so I'm sorry if you don't feel your tuition is being put to good use. You are not alone; a lot of students feel the same way.

Check out Touro's match list history. Compared to more reputable DO schools like PCOM, TCOM and Western, its match list sucks. It has always been unimpressive (more or less; there are a few notable exceptions, such as the student who matched Allo N-surg a couple years back). Consider, though, that Touro's residency placement will probably worsen with the coming residency crunch. As it is, the school's third-year rotations are of dubious quality; couple that with the stagnant number of residency slots, the 'no-name' hospitals at which most Touro students will complete their 3rd year rotations, and the fact that better residency programs (especially ACGME) will not be impressed by no-name community hospital physician letterhead and you have a recipe for low quality and low-level career opportunities.

Get over yourself. There is no such thing as a "reputable" DO school.

USC for instance used to take a number of DO grads (including Touro's!) into its IM program. USC is not the most prestigious IM program, but it has always been regarded as a program that will f u k k i n g *prepare* you for real, cold-hard clinical practice. Now, unfortunately, they are very reluctant to take DOs I believe as a result of a management/policy change (please do a search for this on SDN--it has been written about and described in more detail more accurately than I can convey). The DO students who have the best chances at USC-IM now are probably those at Western, which is a much better DO school in every way. The point being, don't look to match lists from even just a few years ago to indicate what you might be able to match, because with policy changes, expanding MD programs, stagnant ACGME programs, etc.., this will probably not the be the case. Again, if you would be happy with a simple AOA residency...ignore and help make Touro's president the highest-paid in the nation.

USC IM doesn't take DO's anymore from what I understand... not from Western. Not from Touro. Why didn't you go to an MD school if you knew you wouldn't be happy at an AOA residency?

Now, match lists to some degree are dependent on the student and not the school--but there is only so much one can do to over come a poorly organized curriculum and lackluster clinical opportunities. Of course, if you are one of what I call the "OMM Freaks" (throw that good banner to the wind, A.T. Still! ) then you will care about none of this because you will of course be in 7th heaven when you match into AOA family care in Alaska, or North Dakota, or some other awful place. As I said in a different thread, attending a DO school means paying top-shelf prices and putting forth top-shelf effort for bottom-shelf opportunities. This is exaggerated even more at Touro because the opportunities here are overall crap or simply non-existent.

To a large degree, "education is what you make of it." But the gross inefficiency, disorganization, dearth of technology, poor rotation/clinical opportunities, awful location and horribly overpriced tuition of Touro significantly negate even my best efforts and most efficient time-management skills. It also kills my enthusiasm.

And one of the "OMM Freaks" as you've so gracefully named some of your classmates, from the c/o 2013 just matched CHO Pediatrics. In fact, he was a coordinator at suitcase clinic. Oh yeah, and he was a bay area traveling student during third year too... so much for your ****show rotations hypothesis. Maybe if you spent more time working your butt off, as you should be doing in medical school, rather than bemoaning the terrible education you're getting, then you might be as *lucky* as this student.

Touro is also notorious for having very poor rotations. They farm students out to a variety of hospitals (which is what most DO schools do), but most of these sites are of dubious quality. The best place to be for rotations is probably Arrowhead hospital at Western. Rotations are awarded on a lottery system; what will I do if I can't get some place reasonably close and my fiance is here for a job? Like I said--the school is a **** show.

Every student at Touro has to deal with the lottery... and this problem of rotations is not unique to Touro.

I'm sorry if this came off as harsh but this is YOUR education and YOUR career/life. Take it into your own hands. Take some responsibility for it.

 

[edgerock24]

Yeah...I agree with the poster above. Do you realize how many students that would do ANYTHING to get into a USA med school that simply can't? If you can't take the heat get out the kitchen.

 

[DE15C]

OP,
Not to be too harsh, but it seems to me that many of your issues concerning location, crime statistics, lack of research and "real college" amenities could and should have been discovered by you before accepting a spot in their program.
As to your concerns about unavailability of MD residency opportunities, I think that shows that you probably should not have elected to go the DO route.
I think many people are so eager to be accepted to any medical school that they don't always take the time to make sure that where they are going is really a good fit.
You should take stock of your situation. 4 years and a lot of money is a serious investment. If you are that dissatisfied with your school, perhaps you should withdraw from the program and attempt a MD program instead. ( you seem to place a great importance on MD residency, and a lack of appreciation of Osteopathic philosophy)
I don't mean to discourage you. You have an incredible opportunity right in front of you. You have been accepted to medical school, ahead of thousands of others who would love to be in your position.
There will always be obstacles in front of you, in school, in your career, in life. It's never fair so get used to it. How you choose to deal with them is up to you.
If its unbearable than go somewhere else, but most of your complaints point towards poor planning, poor decision making and a poor attitude on your part.
That's just my 2 cents, but either way I hope you make a decision you can be happy with. Good luck!

 

[LiamNeesons]

Unecom

 

[ES2]

You guys pretty much ruined Touro for me, and I was pretty excited about it too.

 

[koan]

There was a similar thread about Western last year, describing the atrocious shortcomings of the administration and also some gun shots near campus. People tend to get frustrated about their school and vent. I don't know, Temple SOM for instance is in a pretty rough section of Philly. If you need to be in a super safe / sheltered area then take that into consideration when you apply. Vallejo is crazy but there are ways to avoid it, the island being well removed from town. We had classmates live in San Francisco and commute by ferry (1 hr) or Berkeley (30 min drive) or Benicia (15 min drive) so there are options if you're flexible.

However, I think a lot of the stuff OP said is true, just overly histrionic. Plenty of hard-working students ahead of our class matched well (and plenty matched in places / specialties that I would hate) ...UNECOM sounds nice, and if you're lucky enough to get multiple offers at DO schools you should always factor in as much information as possible. But threads like this often scare people away from even applying, and my opinion of Touro really changed for the better when I interviewed there. If I'd only listened to the echo chamber on SDN talking about its problems, I wouldn't have applied. There are some really incredible people among the faculty, the campus is unique, the weather is beautiful and nobody will stand in your way if you're gunning for that ACGME neurosurgery spot and capable of achieving it anywhere.

 

[Anicetus]

There was a similar thread about Western last year, describing the atrocious shortcomings of the administration and also some gun shots near campus. People tend to get frustrated about their school and vent. I don't know, Temple SOM for instance is in a pretty rough section of Philly. If you need to be in a super safe / sheltered area then take that into consideration when you apply. Vallejo is crazy but there are ways to avoid it, the island being well removed from town. We had classmates live in San Francisco and commute by ferry (1 hr) or Berkeley (30 min drive) or Benicia (15 min drive) so there are options if you're flexible.

However, I think a lot of the stuff OP said is true, just overly histrionic. Plenty of hard-working students ahead of our class matched well (and plenty matched in places / specialties that I would hate) ...UNECOM sounds nice, and if you're lucky enough to get multiple offers at DO schools you should always factor in as much information as possible. But threads like this often scare people away from even applying, and my opinion of Touro really changed for the better when I interviewed there. If I'd only listened to the echo chamber on SDN talking about its problems, I wouldn't have applied. There are some really incredible people among the faculty, the campus is unique, the weather is beautiful and nobody will stand in your way if you're gunning for that ACGME neurosurgery spot and capable of achieving it anywhere.

BE... that special snowflake. 😎

 

[TriagePreMed]

Ive been to Touro-CA and the city of Vallejo is not the prettiest area in the world, but the campus is okay. I don't think the campus itself will be dangerous. USC, Yale and many other schools are situated in dumpsters. Have you ever heard of a medical student getting shot? Even when it's theft it happens at such statistically low numbers for students. Just remember not to be a ******* in general. Don't walk with a golden chain, don't have a big purse with you if you're walking alone, mind your own business and ignore people acting funny, etc. Most crime is criminals on criminals. Poor on poor. Some of you need to stop acting like you're going into the projects with the wrong bandana on.

 

[Major]

Isn't there Touro Neveda and NY?


All three under the same name but different med schools?

 

[ES2]

Isn't there Touro Neveda and NY?


All three under the same name but different med schools?

I believe they are run by the same organization, just as there are two WesternU: one in Pomona, CA and one in Lebanon, Oregon.

 

[pattr]

I believe they are run by the same organization, just as there are two WesternU: one in Pomona, CA and one in Lebanon, Oregon.

It's not nearly as close of a relationship as WesternU Pomona and Lebanon. NW track is a branch campus of Western; they share some of the same professors, administration etc.

Touro CA, NY, NV are all different schools with different administrations, different faculty, etc. They are as different and separate from each other as they are from NYMC (the MD school under Touro College). The only thing that is the same between them is the name 'Touro' and the overlying organization of The Touro College and University System, which also includes several schools in NY state, Israel, Berlin, Rome...

 

[BouncingBack]

I thought Touro-CA got higher stats = more difficult to get in

 

[DazedAndDissapointed]

I am at TUCOM and I completely agree with everything "Silent Cool" has said - it is 100% accurate to my experience. Being at this school is frankly embarrassing and I don't know if I will have a job when I'm finished here because my education and rotation options were a complete joke compared to my friends at MD schools. Oh, and I'm paying like $15,000 more than them per semester. SMH.

 

[MADD!!!]

This is a good post bump. @MDrocker wheb I told you why I didn't recommend Touro CA, what Silent Cool wrote above can help elaborate it better for you.

 

[DOrocker0930]

This is a good post bump. @MDrocker wheb I told you why I didn't recommend Touro CA, what Silent Cool wrote above can help elaborate it better for you.

I already paid my $2000 deposit to touro and satisfied with the choice I made. Thank you.

 

[SilentCool]

I am at TUCOM and I completely agree with everything "Silent Cool" has said - it is 100% accurate to my experience.

Who's awesome...? YOU'RE awesome!