Unestablished MD or established, reputable DO program?

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New MD everytime, you won't have to face any struggles with the MD title
 
Jumpstartmy5HT said:
Hypothetical question: so if you had acceptances to a top DO program and a new MD program accredited by the LCME, which one would you pick and why?
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I would go new MD -- mostly because I'm applying to a couple and I find the idea of having a real impact on the formation of the school to be a cool idea. However, I think that it depends on what you're looking for. That being said, there are also a couple of DO schools that I'm really excited about.

I try not to think about it as DO/MD new/old top/bottom, but whether it's an environment I would be excited to spend 2-4+ years.
 
It would depend on other factors such as how the new one plans to teach curricuclum, funding, etc.


If I had to say one or the other, I would say a top DO. It is an established program, well-established at that, and has a history to prove it. The first few years may not be the best for many schools, no matter how much money they have, etc. This obviously depends on if you are considering DO in the first place or not, but since this is the DO section, I'm guessing most are considering it.
 
I applied to a couple new MD schools and I withdrew my application after I received an acceptance to DMU. There are just a lot of hiccups in new schools that you will run into, even at the best put together school. I think you are safer attending a school that knows what it's doing. When it comes down to it I would rather be the most competent physician I possibly can be rather than care about people's opinion of my professional degree. But then again I have never been afraid of the letters DO so you have to decide for yourself.
 
Looking through, it seems a lot of students at D.O. schools don't necessarily think their clinicals are highly organized etc. Also remember, New MD schools still, generally, have higher stats than the highest D.O. schools.

Hofstra for example has a 3.6ish GPA and 33 MCAT average

Both will give challenge during medical school, but I think after time, you will have the MD title behind your name and never have to deal with any snobbery (even if it is only a little)
 
sterlingh87 said:
I applied to a couple new MD schools and I withdrew my application after I received an acceptance to DMU. There are just a lot of hiccups in new schools that you will run into, even at the best put together school. I think you are safer attending a school that knows what it's doing. When it comes down to it I would rather be the most competent physician I possibly can be rather than care about people's opinion of my professional degree. But then again I have never been afraid of the letters DO so you have to decide for yourself.
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That's a good way to look at things.

I'm curious... Which schools did you withdraw from?
 
Temperature101 said:
How about DO vs MD in Puerto Rico?
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If I had an acceptance from a DO school and a MD school in PR, I would probably go to the school in PR to improve my already fluent Spanish.

(In reality, I know very little Spanish so the schools in PR aren't options for me.)
 
Which would compensate for my small penis more?

10/10. Haven't had a MD DO thread in a while.
 
Jumpstartmy5HT said:
If I had an acceptance from a DO school and a MD school in PR, I would probably go to the school in PR to improve my already fluent Spanish.

(In reality, I know very little Spanish so the schools in PR aren't options for me.)
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I am 70-75% fluent in speaking Spanish and 85-90% in understanding it... That might be my dilemma next cycle since I might apply to a couple MD schools in Puerto Rico.
 
Temperature101 said:
I am 70-75% fluent in speaking Spanish and 85-90% in understanding it... That might be my dilemma next cycle since I might apply to a couple MD schools in Puerto Rico.
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I think the textbooks are in English, but the lectures and exams may be in Spanish or English... If you understand the language already at an advanced level, you may be able to use medical school to further your understanding. Seems like a worthwhile endeavor. But you also have to consider living in PR and how you can deal with missing the comforts of home.
 
NontradCA said:
Which would compensate for my small penis more?

10/10. Haven't had a MD DO thread in a while.
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It's not the typical pre-med MD v. DO debate, and I don't think there's any need to get nasty here.

There are certain specialties that are becoming more competitive, and there is existent bias in residency placement in the ACGME residencies. The AOA residencies do not have enough spots for all the DO students. The situation is what it is.

I was accepted at a really wonderful DO program, and I will gladly attend school there. I interviewed at a new MD school, and I really enjoyed my visit for a myriad of reasons that do not evolve around the MD title. They haven't given me news yet, but if they do give good news, the question from this post will become a real one instead of a hypothetical one.
 
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Jumpstartmy5HT said:
I think the textbooks are in English, but the lectures and exams may be in Spanish or English... If you understand the language already at an advanced level, you may be able to use medical school to further your understanding. Seems like a worthwhile endeavor. But you also have to consider living in PR and how you can deal with missing the comforts of home.
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I grew up in a poor country. I guess should have no problem adjusting in PR...
 
Temperature101 said:
I grew up in a poor country. I guess should have no problem adjusting in PR...
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When did you leave? I grew up in a poor country too, but I've become mostly Americanized. When I visit, I definitely have a harder time adjusting. I don't think I could attend school in my home country because the environment provides extra stressors that I definitely do not need.
 
I'd personally pick the top tier DO school. I plan to go into primary care and in 10-15 years the snobbery should be gone. Some of the best physicians I met were DOs.

If it was someone who was a motivated individual and wanted to leave their options open who asked, I would say new MD. Newer schools have their problems but motivated people always make the most of their education. Having an MD will open more doors than DO.

Jumpstartmy5HT said:
When did you leave? I grew up in a poor country too, but I've become mostly Americanized. When I visit, I definitely have a harder time adjusting. I don't think I could attend school in my home country because the environment provides extra stressors that I definitely do not need.
Click to expand...

+1

Grew up in third world country. 10/10 would not go back.
 
Jumpstartmy5HT said:
I think the textbooks are in English, but the lectures and exams may be in Spanish or English... If you understand the language already at an advanced level, you may be able to use medical school to further your understanding. Seems like a worthwhile endeavor. But you also have to consider living in PR and how you can deal with missing the comforts of home.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I understand Spanish at an 'advanced' level but I watch Spanish soap operas and fully understand them (100%).
 
Jumpstartmy5HT said:
When did you leave? I grew up in a poor country too, but I've become mostly Americanized. When I visit, I definitely have a harder time adjusting. I don't think I could attend school in my home country because the environment provides extra stressors that I definitely do not need.
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13 years ago and I was in my early 20s.
 
chizledfrmstone said:
I'd personally pick the top tier DO school. I plan to go into primary care and in 10-15 years the snobbery should be gone. Some of the best physicians I met were DOs.

If it was someone who was a motivated individual and wanted to leave their options open who asked, I would say new MD. Newer schools have their problems but motivated people always make the most of their education. Having an MD will open more doors than DO.
Click to expand...

Primary care is definitely one of my top considerations, and I think the DO education would offer me an arsenal of tools that I can use in my daily practices. I really do love the DO philosophy (although this new MD school echoes a very similar sentiment, just without the OMM.) However, I also have interests in EM, and that field is becoming crazy competitive.
 
chizledfrmstone said:
I'd personally pick the top tier DO school. I plan to go into primary care and in 10-15 years the snobbery should be gone. Some of the best physicians I met were DOs.

If it was someone who was a motivated individual and wanted to leave their options open who asked, I would say new MD. Newer schools have their problems but motivated people always make the most of their education. Having an MD will open more doors than DO.



+1

Grew up in third world country. 10/10 would not go back.
Click to expand...

For four years to get a LCME MD degree... I will do that with no hesitation whatsoever.
 
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If you really wanna do primary care or EM I'd just go for the cheapest option.
 
Jumpstartmy5HT said:
Primary care is definitely one of my top considerations, and I think the DO education would offer me an arsenal of tools that I can use in my daily practices. I really do love the DO philosophy (although this new MD school echoes a very similar sentiment, just without the OMM.) However, I also have interests in EM, and that field is becoming crazy competitive.
Click to expand...

I shadowed a surgeon. Fantastic physician but he never uses OMM. You can't tell if he's a DO or MD unless he tells you. Everyone respects him for what he can do. Shadowing him made me realize it's more about the person than DO or MD.

I agree it gives a physician more tools to work with. Maybe even a broader approach to the whole puzzle. I shadowed a lot in rural areas and a lot of the patients loved OMM.

Remember, it's not like you will NEVER be able to use OMM as an MD. There are options to learn it and use it.

Temperature101 said:
For four years to get a MD degree... I will do that with no hesitation whatsoever.
Click to expand...

I was kidnapped as a kid... I know people who went back for medical school there. The locals knew they had money and drugged them for ransom. Depends on the country but there are certain places I'll never go back to even for an MD degree.
 
Elevencents said:
If you really wanna do primary care or EM I'd just go for the cheapest option.
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This is basically the advice my parents gave me! Hah. I spoke to a EM doc at work about this, and he doesn't really know if avoiding the bias at residency time is worth the 40k extra I'd have to eventually pay back. He did seem very concerned about the possible biases though.

chizledfrmstone said:
I shadowed a surgeon. Fantastic physician but he never uses OMM. You can't tell if he's a DO or MD unless he tells you. Everyone respects him for what he can do. Shadowing him made me realize it's more about the person than DO or MD.

I agree it gives a physician more tools to work with. Maybe even a broader approach to the whole puzzle. I shadowed a lot in rural areas and a lot of the patients loved OMM.

Remember, it's not like you will NEVER be able to use OMM as an MD. There are options to learn it and use it.



I was kidnapped as a kid... I know people who went back for medical school there. The locals knew they had money and drugged them for ransom. Depends on the country but there are certain places I'll never go back to even for an MD degree.
Click to expand...

I agree that physicians and their abilities are not determined by some initials after their names. I have met some US MDs that are horrible. An example from this past weekend: a pelvic exam should never be a surprise event.

Where are you from? If you don't mind me asking...
 
What I'm going to say here is only my opinion and may not represent everyone's.

The way I look at DO vs MD is that DO schools offer just about everything, except for heavy research opportunities, that MD programs offer PLUS omm. I know many aren't too excited about OMM, but I, for one, am looking forward to learning this skill so I could provide my future patience with more treatment options. Besides, under the recent "midlevel encroachment" events, OMM is one way DO could easily set themselves apart from everyone else. That's just another reason why I think the DO degree can be more versatile the the MD.

I realize that my account name bares the MD initials, however, please understand that 5 years ago I didn't know any better. I would proud to be Ibn Alnafis DO.
 
Ibn Alnafis MD said:
What I'm going to say here is only my opinion and may not represent everyone's.

The way I look at DO vs MD is that DO schools offer just about everything, except for heavy research opportunities, that MD programs offer PLUS omm. I know many aren't too excited about OMM, but I, for one, am looking forward to learning this skill so I could provide my future patience with more treatment options. Besides, under the recent "midlevel encroachment" events, OMM is one way DO could easily set themselves apart from everyone else. That's just another reason why I think the DO degree can be more versatile the the MD.

I realize that my account name bares the MD initials, however, please understand that 5 years ago I didn't know any better. I would proud to be Ibn Alnafis DO.
Click to expand...

I was on the fence about OMM. I liked the idea of it, but I don't know how effective it would be in practice as my exposure to DOs in practice is admittedly limited. I know one DO, and he doesn't utilize OMM. I was planning to develop my opinions further on this subject if I attend a DO school in the future.

That all changed last week when I went to Des Moines and met the new dean of the COM.

I should probably pause here and explain that I am very skeptical in general. I like to explore things for myself. People usually can't convince me of anything with their words or experiences. I have to find out for myself. I am that person.

However, the dean of the DMU COM basically convinced me single-handedly that I want to learn OMM, and he made me very excited about the possibilities.
 
Jumpstartmy5HT said:
I was on the fence about OMM. I liked the idea of it, but I don't know how effective it would be in practice as my exposure to DOs in practice is admittedly limited. I know one DO, and he doesn't utilize OMM. I was planning to develop my opinions further on this subject if I attend a DO school in the future.

That all changed last week when I went to Des Moines and met the new dean of the COM.

I should probably pause here and explain that I am very skeptical in general. I like to explore things for myself. People usually can't convince me of anything with their words or experiences. I have to find out for myself. I am that person.

However, the dean of the DMU COM basically convinced me single-handedly that I want to learn OMM, and he made me very excited about the possibilities.
Click to expand...

I was privileged to have the opportunity to shadow an Osteopath who is a pioneer in the field. I saw before my eyes the effectiveness of OMM. There are ways to treat patients and relieve their pain that don't include medications and surgery. Some may claim that it is the placebo effect. If it is, and I'm sure it isn't, so be it. Many may argue that the entire field of psychiatry is based on placebo effects (again, I'm not making any claims here. I'm merely mentioning things I've heard). However, our job as future doctors is to provide our patients with comfort. If you are looking to be a bench scientist, then you are in the wrong field.

By the way, I'm all for the Osteopathic distinctiveness. We should fight for what we believe in. Thanks for our ancestors who fought for Osteopathic Medicine, we now have schools that can look beyond our grades and allow us the opportunity to pursue our dreams and help people. Let's learn from our nursing colleagues. They believe that they "care more for their patients" and they are fighting for it. And they are winning. Similarly we shouldn't give up on our principles. OMM is what sets us apart. This is our thing.
 
Don't look into the fluff.

It's simple. If you don't want to study OMM, go MD.
 
Ibn Alnafis MD said:
I would go to a new DO long before gong to an MD in Puerto Rico. I immigrated to the US for a reason. No way I'm relocating with my family to that part of the world.
Click to expand...

Puerto Rico can't be that bad. However, I think I understand why you would be so adamant on leaving.

I was presented the opportunity to go overseas for med school if my grades weren't good enough here. In other countries people go straight from HS to medical school. I worked my butt off to make sure I could stay here. I remember reading your PS so I think we came from similar cultural backgrounds.

I lived in a place where we only had electricity for 8-9 hours a day. In the evenings we just used those stupid kerosene lamps. We used to write on small chalk boards over an over. I didn't want to ask my parents to buy chalk all the time so I would go to the local community college. At the end of the week I'd sit in one math lecture. The class was way beyond my knowledge at the time. The students were at least 2x my age. I just did it so at the end of class I could go up to the professor and ask for remaining chalk they would normally throw out.

Luckily my grades are competitive. I always see people saying they never want to see the MCAT again. I'd take it 4 times before ever thinking of leaving America.
 
chizledfrmstone said:
Puerto Rico can't be that bad. However, I think I understand why you would be so adamant on leaving.

I was presented the opportunity to go overseas for med school if my grades weren't good enough here. In other countries people go straight from HS to medical school. I worked my butt off to make sure I could stay here. I remember reading your PS so I think we came from similar cultural backgrounds.

I lived in a place where we only had electricity for 8-9 hours a day. In the evenings we just used those stupid kerosene lamps. We used to write on small chalk boards over an over. I didn't want to ask my parents to buy chalk all the time so I would go to the local community college. At the end of the week I'd sit in one math lecture. The class was way beyond my knowledge at the time. The students were at least 2x my age. I just did it so at the end of class I could go up to the professor and ask for remaining chalk they would normally throw out.

Luckily my grades are competitive. I always see people saying they never want to see the MCAT again. I'd take it 4 times before ever thinking of leaving America.
Click to expand...

That is amazing, really makes me appreciate my opportunities
 
Jumpstartmy5HT said:
I think the textbooks are in English, but the lectures and exams may be in Spanish or English... If you understand the language already at an advanced level, you may be able to use medical school to further your understanding. Seems like a worthwhile endeavor. But you also have to consider living in PR and how you can deal with missing the comforts of home.
Click to expand...

Temperature101 said:
I grew up in a poor country. I guess should have no problem adjusting in PR...
Click to expand...

chizledfrmstone said:
I'd personally pick the top tier DO school. I plan to go into primary care and in 10-15 years the snobbery should be gone. Some of the best physicians I met were DOs.

If it was someone who was a motivated individual and wanted to leave their options open who asked, I would say new MD. Newer schools have their problems but motivated people always make the most of their education. Having an MD will open more doors than DO.



+1

Grew up in third world country. 10/10 would not go back.
Click to expand...

Is Puerto Rico really 3rd world? I've never been to PR, but I have lived elsewhere in Latin America... whether I would go back for school (hypothetical of course since I'm already in school here) would depend on what kind of standard of living student loans would afford me. If it were comparable to my standard living here, I'd have no problem.

From what I've heard of Puerto Rico, just the fact that its part of the U.S. provides a lot of creature comforts... like most American restaurant and store chains. They have Olive Garden there. That already makes it way different than somewhere like Argentina or Chile or even Mexico (though Mexico obviously has a lot of those chains too.)
 
Ibn Alnafis MD said:
I was privileged to have the opportunity to shadow an Osteopath who is a pioneer in the field. I saw before my eyes the effectiveness of OMM. There are ways to treat patients and relieve their pain that don't include medications and surgery. Some may claim that it is the placebo effect. If it is, and I'm sure it isn't, so be it. Many may argue that the entire field of psychiatry is based on placebo effects (again, I'm not making any claims here. I'm merely mentioning things I've heard). However, our job as future doctors is to provide our patients with comfort. If you are looking to be a bench scientist, then you are in the wrong field.

By the way, I'm all for the Osteopathic distinctiveness. We should fight for what we believe in. Thanks for our ancestors who fought for Osteopathic Medicine, we now have schools that can look beyond our grades and allow us the opportunity to pursue our dreams and help people. Let's learn from our nursing colleagues. They believe that they "care more for their patients" and they are fighting for it. And they are winning. Similarly we shouldn't give up on our principles. OMM is what sets us apart. This is our thing.
Click to expand...

Here's a future AOA president in the making.

Let me play devil's advocate:

If OMM is such a novel and life changing treatment, why limit it to DOs? Why shouldn't MDs be allowed into OMM residencies in order to spread this beneficial treatment to those in need?

I am very happy being a DO student. My stance on the issue is like this: if I had the option of transforming my school into suddenly giving out the MD degree, I would. However, I would not choose to attend an MD school over a DO school simply because of the degree. I think my school has better rotations and more opportunities than a lot of MD schools. I know my school will provide me the tools for me to get me where I want to be.
 
sylvanthus said:
Agreed, if OMT is really that effective everyone should learn it and then there is no distinctiveness. OMT is not enough to remain "distinct."
Click to expand...

It IS very time consuming. It's a big part of the curriculum at DO schools. I suggest that anyone who can't stand OMM should stay away from DO programs. So in that respect it is distinct.

Whether or not it's warranted, you tell us.
 
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Some stats that really stuck out to me at my DO interview was 7% of Doctors are currently DOs but 24ish% of medical students are DO students. I think as DOs become more and more common the misinformation about them will lessen. I would guess that the stats for DO schools will also increase faster in the future than they have in the past
 
Buckeye1992 said:
Some stats that really stuck out to me at my DO interview was 7% of Doctors are currently DOs but 24ish% of medical students are DO students. I think as DOs become more and more common the misinformation about them will lessen. I would guess that the stats for DO schools will also increase faster in the future than they have in the past
Click to expand...

Don't forget the factor that there are a LOT of FMG/IMG MD's practicing as physicians in the US.
 
Jumpstartmy5HT said:
I was on the fence about OMM. I liked the idea of it, but I don't know how effective it would be in practice as my exposure to DOs in practice is admittedly limited. I know one DO, and he doesn't utilize OMM. I was planning to develop my opinions further on this subject if I attend a DO school in the future.

That all changed last week when I went to Des Moines and met the new dean of the COM.

I should probably pause here and explain that I am very skeptical in general. I like to explore things for myself. People usually can't convince me of anything with their words or experiences. I have to find out for myself. I am that person.

However, the dean of the DMU COM basically convinced me single-handedly that I want to learn OMM, and he made me very excited about the possibilities.
Click to expand...

I am exactly the same way. In fact I have the exact same story. I was skeptical about OMM, I could guess it was useful for somethings but was unsure how applicable and relevant it would be to me as a physician. Dr Polk (DMU's new dean) and DMU itself changed my whole perspective on that as well and I am very excited to learn OMM now and to learn it from the best.

Just remember that DMU is known as having THE strongest OMM curriculum of all DO schools. That's why they emphasis it so much and its such a part of your interview experience. In the words of my student host "if you are only going to a DO school to become a doctor and want nothing to do with OMM DMU is the last place you should go to medical school". However, if you want to learn OMM there is no better DO school to attend.
 
NurWollen said:
Is Puerto Rico really 3rd world? I've never been to PR, but I have lived elsewhere in Latin America... whether I would go back for school (hypothetical of course since I'm already in school here) would depend on what kind of standard of living student loans would afford me. If it were comparable to my standard living here, I'd have no problem.

From what I've heard of Puerto Rico, just the fact that its part of the U.S. provides a lot of creature comforts... like most American restaurant and store chains. They have Olive Garden there. That already makes it way different than somewhere like Argentina or Chile or even Mexico (though Mexico obviously has a lot of those chains too.)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know it's not that bad. Just offering my perspective on why I wouldn't be willing to leave CONUS.

sterlingh87 said:
I am exactly the same way. In fact I have the exact same story. I was skeptical about OMM, I could guess it was useful for somethings but was unsure how applicable and relevant it would be to me as a physician. Dr Polk (DMU's new dean) and DMU itself changed my whole perspective on that as well and I am very excited to learn OMM now and to learn it from the best.

Just remember that DMU is known as having THE strongest OMM curriculum of all DO schools. That's why they emphasis it so much and its such a part of your interview experience. In the words of my student host "if you are only going to a DO school to become a doctor and want nothing to do with OMM DMU is the last place you should go to medical school". However, if you want to learn OMM there is no better DO school to attend.
Click to expand...

Is it really? No one ever told me about this.

I was lucky enough to shadow someone who did their residency in OMM... A LONG time ago. Pretty interesting experience.

cliquesh said:
New MD.
Click to expand...

I remember reading your opinion on choosing between MD and DO a while back.

OP, you should look into his previous posts on the topic if you haven't already. It was extremely insightful.
 
sterlingh87 said:
I am exactly the same way. In fact I have the exact same story. I was skeptical about OMM, I could guess it was useful for somethings but was unsure how applicable and relevant it would be to me as a physician. Dr Polk (DMU's new dean) and DMU itself changed my whole perspective on that as well and I am very excited to learn OMM now and to learn it from the best.

Just remember that DMU is known as having THE strongest OMM curriculum of all DO schools. That's why they emphasis it so much and its such a part of your interview experience. In the words of my student host "if you are only going to a DO school to become a doctor and want nothing to do with OMM DMU is the last place you should go to medical school". However, if you want to learn OMM there is no better DO school to attend.
Click to expand...

I could listen to Dr. Polk talk all day. Haha. I have never been a fan girl, but I am starting to understand.
 
Jumpstartmy5HT said:
I could listen to Dr. Polk talk all day. Haha. I have never been a fan girl, but I am starting to understand.
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When did you interview if you don't mind me asking, I wonder if we were there the same day
 
sterlingh87 said:
When did you interview if you don't mind me asking, I wonder if we were there the same day
Click to expand...

I interviewed last Thursday so probably not. I think I remember you from the DMU thread, and you were accepted before I interviewed.
 
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