Unfair AUA Comprehend Clinical Science Examination (CCSE) Passing Policy HELP needed

[ThoracicGuy]

Same boat as you. I am applying for the Fall. Don't give up. I am applying to MUA and UHMS.

Neither of those are good options.

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[ThoracicGuy]

You still have not answered my statement about medical students with an 18 on MCAT obtained residencies.

You are engaging in magical thinking. Medical school doesn't appear to be in your future. Look at PA or NP schools if you want to get into health care. It'll be cheaper and give you a chance at a career. Going Caribbean in your situation is a recipe for disaster. Just because there may have been some outlier that got a residency spot with a bad MCAT, doesn't mean you'll be the same. Chances are you will be among those that never make it.

Think about your future for yourself and your family.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Please keep in mind that California approval is the most stringent and it BY FAR takes the longest to get it i.e. it'll be foolish to go to a school hoping it'll be Cali approved by the time you graduate. I'm not saying you are, but wanted to throw it out there for anyone reading.

Also if they get approval, it is not retroactive. If you start in say, 2016 and graduate in 2021, but they give approval in 2022, you'll never be approved.

 

[bionsa]

Also if they get approval, it is not retroactive. If you start in say, 2016 and graduate in 2021, but they give approval in 2022, you'll never be approved.

Oh wow I heard students at schools like that can be grandfathered in. Or I read it on ChrissyMDs blog. Thanks for letting us know that.

 

[Goro]

The point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.


The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.


Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score.

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are a number of spots at US schools with grade replacement for these candidates.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really. If this happened at a US school, they be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.


The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

A little light reading:

https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/

http://www.tameersiddiqui.com/medical-school-at-sgu

Hi everyone, I am thinking about starting AUA this fall and I am doing research on the best path to become a physician but I need advice if I should start it by investing my time, energy and most of all my money. I have exhausted all my options and this is the only offer I have. My life is at a standstill as I am working odd jobs to make ends meet. Really miserable life right now. I sometimes feel doubtful of going there but again I need to do something about my future. I want to see if anyone can advise me to go ahead with AUA or wait.

 

[bedevilled ben]

@bionsa and @Koolstudent, I implore you from the bottom of my heart and brain to reconsider your options. At the very least, take a few days to seriously investigate Caribbean medical schools & read through these forums extensively to hear stories from other Caribbean graduates like myself to better understand your situation. You are getting unanimous negative feedback for good reason. As a non-trad student myself, it is VERY easy for adults who've been out of school to fall into the mindset that hard-work is all you need to succeed. In many cases it's true, but not for medical education. There are hard-stops built into medical education, and the MCAT really is one of them. I am not exaggerating when I say that the MCAT is literally the easiest part of medical school. I know that sounds crazy without having done it yourselves, but there is simply no comparison. You may not feel that the MCAT is predictive of success, but test taking is basically the ONLY metric used to evaluate your medical school progress, and your life becomes a series of progressively harder and harder written tests for the next 6-8 years. If you are a weak test-taker, you are placing yourself in an incredibly precarious situation that is more likely than not to end in catastrophic financial failure. The tests are those hard-stops, the gateways or hurdles, that you have to overcome in order to proceed. Not only that, coming from the Caribbean, you need to *excel* on those tests in order to compete with US students.

Re: outliers that succeed despite low MCAT scores. Are you familiar with normal Gaussian or bell-distribution graphs? For large population sizes, there will always be anomalous outliers. Although I don't personally know anyone, I'm sure there's somebody out there that got a 16 or 18 MCAT and managed to get a residency and practice in the US. Just because one or a handful of people did it, does not mean that the chances are good that you will do it. Chances are good that you will not be the unique and special snowflake.

Do yourself a favor and find some physicians to speak to in person. If you're looking for direction and meaning in your life, medicine is probably not a good profession choice, especially if you're approaching 50. Depression, feelings of helplessness, burnout, inadequacy, and meaninglessness are all very common complaints from medical students and residents. The payoff comes *very* late.

 

[bionsa]

@bedevilled ben Where did you go to school? what carribean school?

 

[bedevilled ben]

@bedevilled ben Where did you go to school? what carribean school?

I recently graduated from SGU.

 

[Skip Intro]

The payoff comes *very* late.

There is no "payoff" anymore. Especially if one is, in any way, motivated by some deep narcissistic need to be "respected". Those Marcus Welby days are long gone.

-Skip

 

[MyAtypicalJourneyToMD]

Hi, Thanks for your advice and suggestion. Well, my story is unique since I am a non-traditional student. I am almost 50 years old right now. I have taken the MCAT but as usual, it has not been a good experience so US medical school is NOT an option. I do not want to re-take it or even apply to the US med programs or DO programs. I personally do not believe that MCAT is a good indicator of success in med school. I have seen several people do terrible on the MCAT and are successful physicians. I know that the only route for me is the Caribbean.

My GPA is around a 3.0 in undergrad with post baccalaureate courses. I am in a state of confusion. Let me explain. I do want to study medicine. I know I have the passion but sometimes I have those doubtful thoughts about going to the Caribbean route. I am thinking about AUA over Ross or St George because of no MCAT requirement but with all the news that I keep hearing puts me in a doubtful situation. For example, their tough requirements to take the USMLE, wait times for clinical rotations and multiple attempts for residency placement. I was looking into the NRMP data and it shows exactly how many candidates are placed into residency match. It was scary to know that only 50% matched. I was not able to interpret the data so maybe someone can explain the chart that details matched and not matched for IMG's in Antigua and Barbuda.

My concern is if I take the Caribbean route like AUA, would my age be a factor in residency placement in addition to my step scores? Should I go ahead with AUA in the fall? My family and friends strictly oppose me to go this route so that puts me in a more doubtful situation. At the same time I need to get out of my current miserable life working odd jobs where I do not belong and wasting my life and all the money I spent on my past education. But again it's my decision at the end of the day. So any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Reading your messages sends off one red flag after another... A voice in my head screaming "don't do it". I've been successful at AUA but that's not the case for the majority of my original class. I scored 25 on the MCAT in 2012. I wasn't accepted to a US school so decided to go the Carib route and I wanted this more than anything and no one could tell me otherwise. I can't believe I'm on the other side of that now... Telling you not to do it! The implication your age carries - that you've been out of school for a while - is concerning. Don't you know that now everyone takes meds that allow them to be Step 1 machines?! The dreaded burn-out doesn't exist for them. That's the standard now. That's what you're up against. The odds are SO stacked against Caribbean students that I'd say if you have ANY plan B - don't do this. If you have ANY doubts (it seems like you might, because you posted here) - don't do it. If it's going to take all your money - don't do it... Because whatever you're thinking it will cost, it will cost more! People repeat semesters like crazy, spending $22K extra each time, and the tuition is rising with new accreditations. I'm 28 and I'm older than all my peers, the majority of which are depressed and/or feel like they've made a huge mistake. Bottom line... you said you're "misserible" now? Med school, especially a Caribbean one, will NOT help, friend.

 

[truckboat]

Have you thought about PA school ? Very rewarding and fulfilling job that is decently close to being a doctor.

 

[Koolstudent]

Have you been through the carribbean route?

 

[truckboat]

No I have not. I was accepted to SGU & declined the acceptance

 

[Koolstudent]

No I have not. I was accepted to SGU & declined the acceptance

So which school are you at now?

 

[gyngyn]

So which school are you at now?

He's improving his application so he can attend a US school.

 

[truckboat]

He's improving his application so he can attend a US school.

Yes, this exactly.

And the decision was not only due to advice on the forum.. It was from advice from the 2 friends I have that are Ortho & neurosurgery PD's in my town and other surgeons I work with + my mentors.

Everyone was on the same page about not going to the Caribbean.

 

[Skip Intro]

Don't you know that now everyone takes meds that allow them to be Step 1 machines?! The dreaded burn-out doesn't exist for them. That's the standard now. That's what you're up against.

When I was at Ross, there was a girl in the class behind me who unabashedly admitted to taking Ritalin and Wellbutrin. She failed out and transferred to St. Matthews. Don't know what happened to her after that.

For what it's worth, I never took any "performance enhancing" substances (with the exception of caffeine in the form of copious amounts of coffee) while at Ross, studying for the Steps, passing my board-certifications, etc. Those meds will not make up for knowledge deficiencies or make you smarter, despite many false beliefs to the contrary.

-Skip
Graduate, with Honors
Ross University, 2005