Unty

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So how many unfilled Pathology programs were there today?

Congrats to those who matched. To those that didn't never give up!!!
 
Oct 5, 2018
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I'm not surprised. Students are worried about employment opportunities in pathology.
It’s fair. There’s been no new positions in years. But the retirement frenzy is starting so their positions will become available. Problem is salaries are stagnant/going down. Workload has gone up 30%. Desirable working conditions are few and far between.

Why so many ??//
Just an unpopular field without a clearly positive future. Especially with unmatch rates soaring we thought more people would back up with path. Last year it was only 7/35 unmatched. This was the highest in my time.
 

HeyDalaron

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Dec 23, 2015
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It’s fair. There’s been no new positions in years. But the retirement frenzy is starting so their positions will become available. Problem is salaries are stagnant/going down. Workload has gone up 30%. Desirable working conditions are few and far between.


Just an unpopular field without a clearly positive future. Especially with unmatch rates soaring we thought more people would back up with path. Last year it was only 7/35 unmatched. This was the highest in my time.
I agree. From my experience looking for work in Canada as a pathologist, I've found that there is a lot of downward pressure on our prosperity, with "take it or leave it" conditions, due to "insourcing" of foreign labor, of possible questionable qualifications, from developing countries. There are workarounds employed by hospitals and universities, such as "teaching licenses" that circumvent the need for appropriate qualifications.
 

Pathbusiness

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Oct 3, 2016
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Unfilled positions will get taken in no time. There a ton of unmatched candidates with great scores, and credentials. I know few with scores north of 230 in both steps, who didn't match.
 

Sunny B

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Mar 13, 2019
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My associates tell me that almost all unfilled positions are getting filled because other specialties are full. Great news!
 

Doormat

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Apr 19, 2011
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So awesome. Because of the shortage of overall residency spots, pathology programs should fill with the dregs.
 
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HeyDalaron

2+ Year Member
Dec 23, 2015
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So awesome. Because of the shortage of overall residency spots, pathology programs should fill with the dregs.
"My associates tell me that almost all unfilled positions are getting filled because other specialties are full. Great news!"

If this isn't sarcasm, it seems like gloating, doesn't it?
 

HeyDalaron

2+ Year Member
Dec 23, 2015
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Is the job market worse in Canada compared to the US?
I can't comment on the state of the US job market as I have not been a part of it, but the Canadian one is becoming brutally tight.

The problem in Canada is that the number of positions is determined by provincial governments, and governments are not agreeing to open new positions. Ontario, the biggest province, has not seen a new position in about ten years. The only way to find one is if someone retires.

The only consistently available positions are in hard-to-fill remote or isolated locales with harsh winters, such as Saskatchewan, Newfoundland or Northern BC/Alberta. Rather than provide incentives to attract qualified talent, they have government or university approval to recruit foreign-trained pathologists who are without eligibility for domestic pathology certification, and would be considered unqualified in any other medical or surgical field. Major urban university centers with high volumes are doing the same thing. These exceptions weaken our negotiating power tremendously.

Students in Canada are seeing this first hand and are opting out of this desperate situation, choosing fields that are less dependent on government resources, or that have the freedom to go to the USA where the job markets are good. It is unfortunate, because pathology was on a little bit of an upswing in popularity these past few years.
 
Mar 14, 2019
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I can't comment on the state of the US job market as I have not been a part of it, but the Canadian one is becoming brutally tight.

The problem in Canada is that the number of positions is determined by provincial governments, and governments are not agreeing to open new positions. Ontario, the biggest province, has not seen a new position in about ten years. The only way to find one is if someone retires.

The only consistently available positions are in hard-to-fill remote or isolated locales with harsh winters, such as Saskatchewan, Newfoundland or Northern BC/Alberta. Rather than provide incentives to attract qualified talent, they have government or university approval to recruit foreign-trained pathologists who are without eligibility for domestic pathology certification, and would be considered unqualified in any other medical or surgical field. Major urban university centers with high volumes are doing the same thing. These exceptions weaken our negotiating power tremendously.

Students in Canada are seeing this first hand and are opting out of this desperate situation, choosing fields that are less dependent on government resources, or that have the freedom to go to the USA where the job markets are good. It is unfortunate, because pathology was on a little bit of an upswing in popularity these past few years.
I'm one of the handful of Canadians who matched to path this year. Despite my hyperawareness of these issues and others which have been posted online, I still chose the field because I love the work and don't enjoy anything else in medicine nearly as much. Hopefully it will work out in the end, or maybe it won't and I'll be jobless, poor, crushed by workload or replaced by AI. But hey, at least I'll have followed my heart and gone down swinging. In any case, truth be told I don't think these factors have played a huge role in the lack of med student interest this year. To my knowledge these weren't really concerns my fellow path applicants had, and are far from being in the minds of undifferentiated med students still choosing a specialty. Most people don't scour internet forums, and the general, if misguided, sentiment in real life is that path offers a great lifestyle and has a good job market. My impression is that most med students just plain don't want to be pathologists and have no interest in looking at slides all day. Could be that the dip in interest this year was just year to year variance, hopefully next year is better.
 
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Unty

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There are some foreign grads who matched this year inPathology after being out of medical school for over 10 years.

Does this happen in family medicine or internal medicine?
 
Mar 5, 2018
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This is by far the greatest reason programs should diminish positions. Being out of training for a decade and getting a residency spot is truly absurd.
 

path_spouse

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Apr 1, 2016
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This is by far the greatest reason programs should diminish positions. Being out of training for a decade and getting a residency spot is truly absurd.
Usual disclaimer—I’m a clinical scientist, not an MD. I am married to a pathologist.

During my husband’s training, I met many foreign grad pathologists who entered pathology residency 5+ years out of training. All of them had either practiced in their home country (one was a department chair) or were involved in research related to pathology. Some had spent time doing PhD’s.

If you are coming from outside the US, I don’t understand why it would be absurd to get a spot many years out of training, or why it would be viewed as a negative. It seems to me that it would depend what you did with those years.

I’m sure I’m missing something, since I’m a bystander—if so, please enlighten me.
 
Mar 5, 2018
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Usual disclaimer—I’m a clinical scientist, not an MD. I am married to a pathologist.

During my husband’s training, I met many foreign grad pathologists who entered pathology residency 5+ years out of training. All of them had either practiced in their home country (one was a department chair) or were involved in research related to pathology. Some had spent time doing PhD’s.

If you are coming from outside the US, I don’t understand why it would be absurd to get a spot many years out of training, or why it would be viewed as a negative. It seems to me that it would depend what you did with those years.

I’m sure I’m missing something, since I’m a bystander—if so, please enlighten me.
Why has pathology become the default career for the type of individual you highlight. Do we need this many MDPhDs never intending to do science but pacifying the broken academic systems need to fill positions tha are obviously unnecessary? Why is there a need to have trainees that have not practiced medicine in years, have no idea how medical training occurs in the US, have potentential communication issues, and are placed under undue stress become first year residents in pathology? Can institutions close these positions and hire PAs for AP and CLS for CP. Don’t trainees waste lots of time on numerous CP rotations anyway? Training all these people is expensive and unnecessary if the programs are not filling.
 

Sunny B

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We welcome all who want a better life to fill a US Residency position in pathology. These are now becoming jobs that Americans will not take. This is why we have always welcome immigrants who want a better life! My colleagues and I are very welcoming and happy to help solve this dilemma. We have many great candidates who have filled in the scramble this year!
 
Aug 20, 2018
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Spots should not be filled just b/c they exist. Programs are pressured to fill spots because they will lose the federal funding for the slots if they dont scramble someone in. In most programs if the path residency program disappeared overnight there would be no need to hire more attendings. Only more PAs, grossing techs and secretaries would be needed (for the data entry done by trainees for AP work, CP interps, etc). Much cheaper for program to justify a path spot, fill it with anyone with a pulse and avoid having to staff dept with appropriate PA, admin support.

Does anyone know any real numbers on how many path spots went unmatched and / or had to scramble to fill? is this avail anywhere?
 
Mar 5, 2018
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We welcome all who want a better life to fill a US Residency position in pathology. These are now becoming jobs that Americans will not take. This is why we have always welcome immigrants who want a better life! My colleagues and I are very welcoming and happy to help solve this dilemma. We have many great candidates who have filled in the scramble this year!
This is not an immigrant American or better life issue. Since residency training is paud for by Medicare maybe there should be a serious audit of every residency program/position in Pathology. Maybe an independent body should walk around with trainees through their CP rotations and some AP rotations and track what residents are doing for 50-65K a year and compare it to fields like surgery. Maybe there should be discussion about why hospitals benefit from government subsidized positions that are not filling and find out what is truly going on. Are positions kept open because hospitals get some serious cash flow from the federal government that is helping to destroy Medicare? How many pathology positions are necessary at a time where PAs CLSs and phds can do much of resident work. If the financial insentive is removed from hospitals to over hire, will the position number recalibrate appropriately? I appreciate your sentiment of allowing for excellent candidates to have a chance for a better life in the US. But is that really what is going on in pathology. The numbers of positions available seem to be far too many. And finally the USMLE exams were not created for individuals to take years of study with Kaplan courses. They were created for about a month of study during medical school. The US is very generous at the cost of tax payers. Is this generosity sustainable. Maybe non US scrambles should pay for their training since they likely have no educational debt. No offense to anyone but these match numbers if true are unsustainable and do not make sense.
 
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y2k_free_radical

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Sep 25, 2015
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We welcome all who want a better life to fill a US Residency position in pathology. These are now becoming jobs that Americans will not take. This is why we have always welcome immigrants who want a better life! My colleagues and I are very welcoming and happy to help solve this dilemma. We have many great candidates who have filled in the scramble this year!
WHO ARE YOU ?????????????????????
 

generic pathologist

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Dec 2, 2015
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I can't comment on the state of the US job market as I have not been a part of it, but the Canadian one is becoming brutally tight.

The problem in Canada is that the number of positions is determined by provincial governments, and governments are not agreeing to open new positions. Ontario, the biggest province, has not seen a new position in about ten years. The only way to find one is if someone retires.

The only consistently available positions are in hard-to-fill remote or isolated locales with harsh winters, such as Saskatchewan, Newfoundland or Northern BC/Alberta. Rather than provide incentives to attract qualified talent, they have government or university approval to recruit foreign-trained pathologists who are without eligibility for domestic pathology certification, and would be considered unqualified in any other medical or surgical field. Major urban university centers with high volumes are doing the same thing. These exceptions weaken our negotiating power tremendously.

Students in Canada are seeing this first hand and are opting out of this desperate situation, choosing fields that are less dependent on government resources, or that have the freedom to go to the USA where the job markets are good. It is unfortunate, because pathology was on a little bit of an upswing in popularity these past few years.
yet FM continues to make north of 300 000 CAD for paper pushing. The Canadian healthcare system (especially Ontario) need major overhaul.