Unfriendly residency/hospital environment?

Started by koikisi
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Browse articles Compare schools My application plan Read Interview Feedback
Practice for interviews Ask an Advisor
K

koikisi

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I'm about to start my Psychiatry Intern year at a place that's entirely new to me. I come from the a big metropolitan city, so the adjustment to a smaller city that's not as fast paced is something I was anticipating. However, what I did not anticipate was some of the rudeness I have encountered by some of the people within my department and Human Resources...especially when it involves something that has to do with their lack of communication/organization. For instance, there are certain forms which were sent out, without a date to return them, so I just assumed I would turn them in during orientation next week. Apparently, they had expected that I return them to them last month, though they did not indicate that when they cleared me for all the other paperwork that was sent in last month and said I was good to go.

I went in to pick something from my PC today and was completely shocked at his response towards me. Needless to say, I fixed the forms, but I did not appreciate the hostile attitude.

I also did not like the way some of the current residents have been indicating that this program is taking a nosedive with the new PD who came in recently and some rotations have been changed. They were a bit shocked by the fact that I matched here as they had all scrambled. This year is one of the few years this program has filled its match list.

I wish they had been a bit more forthright with me the night of the interview dinner, but then again the PD was present that night.

I'm just feeling a bit uneasy with the hostile nature of the program and the few encounters I have had with everyone. The residents seem to describe it as a miserable place to work where they get very little supervision. I decided Psychiatry after originally planning on doing Family Medicine, so I had a bit of luck this match cycle considering the amount of interviews I got for changing my mind.

Does anyone have any suggestions on things I should be doing to acclimate better? I really don't want to leave without at least completing a year, but its honestly very tempting to do so considering the happiest thing I have to look forward to is my gorgeous condo (which is costing me about half the price it would back home). But aside from that, I hate the weather and the lack of culture is a big turn off for me.

Any input would be welcome. Is it typical for residents to speak negatively about the program towards incoming interns?

Thanks
 
So you haven't even started residency really?

The forms situation is an issue with you and them. They should have let you know what the due date was, but you could have been a bit more pro active and emailed the program to know for sure.

You'r an adult know so you need to be proactive. Things like step 3 etc.

Regarding the program coordinator, that's just the luck of the draw. Some are good and some suck.

As far as acclimating, study a lot, don't make waves, and have a good attitude. Your program may be malignant but you haven't even started yet to know for sure . Give it a honest and fair shot. If you go into it already thinking of an exit plan, you are sabotaging your experience unfairly.
 
I've been trying to be more proactive now. It certainly did not help, when I called them and asked if my paperwork was intact, they said yes. I feel the communication is truly lacking amongst the program coordinator, human resources and the GME office. I think I need to get out of the mindset that I had when I was in medical school, where the administrative things were not for me to worry about.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
koikisi said:
Does anyone have any suggestions on things I should be doing to acclimate better?
Click to expand...

Yup. Get over society egging you on and your terrible upbringing, they will only hurt you. Realize what you think and feel don't matter. I understand this sounds harsh, but you'd have been better off if you heard this rather than cherish your participation metal. You're there for one reason only, to get experience. Damn millennials.
 
You can't do anything about it now--this is where you matched, this is where you're staying. You make it sound as if not matching was a serious possibility, so I assure you that if you leave without even starting you are going to be at very grave risk of never matching again. Jump in, give it a fair shot, and if worse comes to worse, keep your head down, slog through residency, and get a job at the end of the day.
 
GoSpursGo said:
You can't do anything about it now--this is where you matched, this is where you're staying. You make it sound as if not matching was a serious possibility, so I assure you that if you leave without even starting you are going to be at very grave risk of never matching again. Jump in, give it a fair shot, and if worse comes to worse, keep your head down, slog through residency, and get a job at the end of the day.
Click to expand...

Not matching was not a serious possibility since this was about half way down my list. I chose it because there was minimal snow and the residents really put together a good friend on interview day. But you never know about any place.

I have jumped in, and luckily the chief resident is a really nice guy, much different than the PC, and some of the residents I've met. But I really wish they had been a bit more vocal about their feelings on interview day.
 
this is not your permanent job, it's residency, and it's not supposed to be fun. maybe just grow up and deal with it. your program coordinator is just a paper-pusher anyway. now buckle down and learn your specialty!
 
I can appreciate you all calling me out. But to be fair, I have never had any issues with paperwork, taxes, etc. In fact, I had a real job before med school and was doing quite well.

I just feel like everyone deserves to be training in an environment that is not hostile and conducive to learning. I also know that my poor planning and indecesiveness regarding specialties led me to this stage. But I am glad that this is not where I will be working for the rest of my life.
 
koikisi said:
I can appreciate you all calling me out. But to be fair, I have never had any issues with paperwork, taxes, etc. In fact, I had a real job before med school and was doing quite well.

I just feel like everyone deserves to be training in an environment that is not hostile and conducive to learning. I also know that my poor planning and indecesiveness regarding specialties led me to this stage. But I am glad that this is not where I will be working for the rest of my life.
Click to expand...
Well, "to be fair", in your OP you essentially judged your entire program based on a couple of interactions with the PC and your interpretation of a few statements from current residents. You really have no idea if your program is supportive and conducive to learning or a complete hell hole at this point. Come back in a couple of years and fill us in on how things really are.
 
Agree that you're dealing with 'n of a few' syndrome.

I have lived everywhere from small town to suburbs to small city to NYC, and you will find this sort of thing everywhere.

Some people just have adversarial type personalities. Some people just don't have as much patience...and sometimes people just have a bad day.

If you go in with negativity, I think you're more likely to set yourself up for that experience.

My best advice is to go in positive and be proven wrong instead of go in negative and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
 
Dral said:
Agree that you're dealing with 'n of a few' syndrome.

I have lived everywhere from small town to suburbs to small city to NYC, and you will find this sort of thing everywhere.

Some people just have adversarial type personalities. Some people just don't have as much patience...and sometimes people just have a bad day.

If you go in with negativity, I think you're more likely to set yourself up for that experience.

My best advice is to go in positive and be proven wrong instead of go in negative and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
Click to expand...

I think my mindset has been very negative since I've moved here. It has been a lot of regret about not doing as many auditions, changing my mind about specialties late during 4th year. I think I just need to remember that unhappy or happy, easy or not easy, residency is just a stepping stone to my future career and I should suck it up.

I will say, however, that after doing orientation today, a lot of people felt similarly about the staff. I honestly felt it was awful that 20 or so nurses were smoking during their break right in front of the hospital. But what really put me off was some of the motions a young nurse made, which makes me question whether the hospital is drug testing its employees.

Regardless, I like your advice and plan on implementing that.
 
koikisi said:
But what really put me off was some of the motions a young nurse made, which makes me question whether the hospital is drug testing its employees.
Click to expand...

You may be the most out of touch physician on SDN. You'll probably do fine and live out your life in relative comfort, but to be good at your craft you'll need to grow up more than my sixteen year old. So far, you could take lessons from him. Those nurses learned more in one week than you obviously did in four years of medial school.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
koikisi said:
I've been trying to be more proactive now. It certainly did not help, when I called them and asked if my paperwork was intact, they said yes. I feel the communication is truly lacking amongst the program coordinator, human resources and the GME office. I think I need to get out of the mindset that I had when I was in medical school, where the administrative things were not for me to worry about.
Click to expand...

You're lucky if your med school took care of all the administrative things for you. At our med school, all forms got lost, and nothing got done unless you personally harassed the people responsible for the forms. I had to personally go to their office, tell them what to do with my forms, and follow up to ensure it got done. I learned this back in undergrad, which for me was at a big state university (very good school, but big, and papers got lost). Ditto for residency. Our PC is a sweetheart, but she is absent half the time (lots of sick days), and has way too much work to do for one person. Things do not get done unless we follow up on them. Looking back, the last time administrative things were taken care of for me was probably in childhood.
 
I do apologize if I have offended anyone or made it seem like I know more than nurses---not something I claim at all.

I think what has happened is that I attended an expensive school, where a lot of administrative paperwork stuff, besides VSAS was taken care of for us. Our coordinator would e-mail us etc. But I can't expect that here.

I also think I have been used to working in semi-affluent/middle class areas where the patient population was mainly insured caucasians with jobs. I am doing my residency in a run down area where the patient population has been referred to as "ghetto and difficult". That is sure to change the morale of some nurses to some degree (just my opinion).

The amount of resources the hospital has etc., plus being understaffed on ancillary support is another factor that I'm finding out now. Which is COMPLETELY foreign to me given my background but I'm trying to adjust. I need to remember that the attitude/life priorities of people living in Beverly Hills will always be different than someone living in the hood in Detroit.
 
koikisi said:
I do apologize if I have offended anyone or made it seem like I know more than nurses---not something I claim at all.

I think what has happened is that I attended an expensive school, where a lot of administrative paperwork stuff, besides VSAS was taken care of for us. Our coordinator would e-mail us etc. But I can't expect that here.

I also think I have been used to working in semi-affluent/middle class areas where the patient population was mainly insured caucasians with jobs. I am doing my residency in a run down area where the patient population has been referred to as "ghetto and difficult". That is sure to change the morale of some nurses to some degree (just my opinion).

The amount of resources the hospital has etc., plus being understaffed on ancillary support is another factor that I'm finding out now. Which is COMPLETELY foreign to me given my background but I'm trying to adjust. I need to remember that the attitude/life priorities of people living in Beverly Hills will always be different than someone living in the hood in Detroit.
Click to expand...

I can't respond because Winged Scapula is cut from the same cloth you seem to be, but trust me I have thoughts about your post. I can only imagine how rough its been for you working in all those affluent areas.
 
mk04447 said:
I can't respond because Winged Scapula is cut from the same cloth you seem to be, but trust me I have thoughts about your post. I can only imagine how rough its been for you working in all those affluent areas.
Click to expand...

No what I was saying is that part of the reason why I feel its so unfriendly is because of the fact that all of the places I have been exposed to so far have been in areas that weren't as economically disadvantaged. The transition has been rough no doubt.

I do not think its too much to ask to train in a place where the morale is not negative/hostile.
 
koikisi said:
No what I was saying is that part of the reason why I feel its so unfriendly is because of the fact that all of the places I have been exposed to so far have been in areas that weren't as economically disadvantaged. The transition has been rough no doubt.

I do not think its too much to ask to train in a place where the morale is not negative/hostile.
Click to expand...

So poor people lower your morale, I get it. They seem hostile to you, completely understood. I'm so sorry the next three years will be challenging. Not to worry, you'll be pushing pills in suburbia again before you know it.
 
koikisi said:
No what I was saying is that part of the reason why I feel its so unfriendly is because of the fact that all of the places I have been exposed to so far have been in areas that weren't as economically disadvantaged. The transition has been rough no doubt.

I do not think its too much to ask to train in a place where the morale is not negative/hostile.
Click to expand...


You'll find out soon enough if it truly is. Regardless of how it turns out, make sure you play the game right. That means establishing good relationships, making sure you don't let your guard down, studying, dotting your i's, crossing your t's...etc
 
koikisi said:
No what I was saying is that part of the reason why I feel its so unfriendly is because of the fact that all of the places I have been exposed to so far have been in areas that weren't as economically disadvantaged. The transition has been rough no doubt.

I do not think its too much to ask to train in a place where the morale is not negative/hostile.
Click to expand...


FYI, you'll find that wealthy patients can be some of the most demanding, obnoxious, hard-to-please people. Whereas disadvantaged patients are often very grateful for your help, respectful, and more likely to follow your instructions (or at least attempt to).
 
mk04447 said:
You may be the most out of touch physician on SDN. You'll probably do fine and live out your life in relative comfort, but to be good at your craft you'll need to grow up more than my sixteen year old. So far, you could take lessons from him. Those nurses learned more in one week than you obviously did in four years of medial school.
Click to expand...
Let's keep the moral outrage accurate. The nurses did not learn more in a week than 4yrs of medical school. I love well placed hyperbole but it's just silly.
 
mk04447 said:
So poor people lower your morale, I get it. They seem hostile to you, completely understood. I'm so sorry the next three years will be challenging. Not to worry, you'll be pushing pills in suburbia again before you know it.
Click to expand...

I think I am "cut from the same cloth" as you, but this is a little unfair. Acknowledging that morale tends to be lower in facilities with fewer resources is not ragging on the poor. The difference between a chronically understaffed hospital and one where staff had reasonable workloads is HUGE.
 
sb247 said:
Let's keep the moral outrage accurate. The nurses did not learn more in a week than 4yrs of medical school. I love well placed hyperbole but it's just silly.
Click to expand...

You're right, they knew more all along, they just didn't test as well.
 
22031 Alum said:
I think I am "cut from the same cloth" as you, but this is a little unfair. Acknowledging that morale tends to be lower in facilities with fewer resources is not ragging on the poor. The difference between a chronically understaffed hospital and one where staff had reasonable workloads is HUGE.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but to be fair, I didn't gather the sentiment you're describing from the comment I responded to. She seems more concerned about her manicure and whether her bimmer will be damaged or stollen in the parking lot.
 
mk04447 said:
Agreed, but to be fair, I didn't gather the sentiment you're describing from the comment I responded to. She seems more concerned about her manicure and whether her bimmer will be damaged or stollen in the parking lot.
Click to expand...

Looking at the post you quoted specifically, she says unfriendly, negative, hostile... The original post mentions disorganization, lost paperwork, possible issues with the PD and rotations. Another post specifically mentions understaffing and the impact on morale. Nothing about a manicure or a Beamer. I have been in poorly funded and richly funded environments and all of those things are more common at the underfunded places. It's just the nature of the beast.

I'm all for advocating for the less fortunate, but let's not pretend that every environment is ideal for every personality type. Or that not enjoying that environment automatically equals spoiled brat. If you do end up enjoying that type of work, realize you won't get any gold stars for either preferring it, or putting down people who don't.

Edit-- tl;dr: Sounds like OP has valid concerns. Even if she didn't, being smug about working in under-resourced environments isn't a good look.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
+1 for suck it up. Your entitlement and narcissism was enough to get through med school. They don't care in residency. Be prepared to be treated like an adult for the first time in your life.
 
22031 Alum said:
Looking at the post you quoted specifically, she says unfriendly, negative, hostile... The original post mentions disorganization, lost paperwork, possible issues with the PD and rotations. Another post specifically mentions understaffing and the impact on morale. Nothing about a manicure or a Beamer. I have been in poorly funded and richly funded environments and all of those things are more common at the underfunded places. It's just the nature of the beast.

I'm all for advocating for the less fortunate, but let's not pretend that every environment is ideal for every personality type. Or that not enjoying that environment automatically equals spoiled brat. If you do end up enjoying that type of work, realize you won't get any gold stars for either preferring it, or putting down people who don't.

Edit-- tl;dr: Sounds like OP has valid concerns. Even if she didn't, being smug about working in under-resourced environments isn't a good look.
Click to expand...

I read those things too, but they were all overshadowed by comments about a rude nurse. Paraphrasing... [I was really put off by a mean or rude nurse, this made me question the hospitals drug testing.] As if anyone who disagrees with the OP must be taking drugs. Maybe I'm overreacting, but feel the undertones are here.
 
mk04447 said:
I read those things too, but they were all overshadowed by comments about a rude nurse. Paraphrasing... [I was really put off by a mean or rude nurse, this made me question the hospitals drug testing.] As if anyone who disagrees with the OP must be taking drugs. Maybe I'm overreacting, but feel the undertones are here.
Click to expand...

I don't want to invalidate your feelings but that strikes me as quite the stretch. You can find undertones anywhere if you search hard enough... Honestly curious how one goes from that description to thinking OP just cares about manicures or the safety of a fancy car? I've interacted with enough rude (or spaced-out, unfocused, inappropriately goofy, the list goes on...) people at work that such a description didn't even register for me, let alone register as something at which to take offense.

Obviously this is all a two-way street. OP has some responsibility here too. But having been in similar situations (and also having been spoiled by extremely well-funded schooling) I can see where it's coming from, and think some of the piling-on was out of left field.
 
Ok just to set the record straight. I have also had to deal with adversity as the child of immigrants from East Asia and am by no means rich. I have had to work through college, and had a different career before medical school. I was never considered lazy or a snob. Also, considering the thousands I have in loans, a Beamer and Manicure are not on my mind...in fact even trying to pay my basic utilities is a luxury.

The comment about drug testing comes from the fact that I saw at least 20+ nurses smoking in front of the hospital during their breaks. I was not alone in talking about the rude nurse, several other interns who were in orientation felt she was not with it, her gait was quite ataxic....and she did seem frustrated. Of course this is only one nurse, and I see it from their perspective too. They are understaffed, the working space is cramped, doctors orders are illegible, senior physicians are demanding on them, etc. I get it. To top it all off, they have to deal with a bunch of incoming interns who are going to frustrate them with their lack of experience.

I am definitely taking responsibility for things and have been on track with everything thus far (even when some people haven't). But to give you guys another example, it doesn't help or seem professional, when a training session that was suppose to start at 8AM did not start until 10AM, because of lack of organization/communication. The e-mail clearly said 8 AM and be prompt, but no one showed up until 9:30 AM. This had to do with miscommunication with the coordinator and the chief resident/one of the attendings. This is the real world, and I am definitely willing to get used to it, but I feel that there should be some accountability.

Bottom line, it seems that the trend in my hospital is that there is too much work/stress for everyone (residents, nurses, ancillary staff), not enough funding, and just not enough beds for patients.
 
drkristy85 said:
FYI, you'll find that wealthy patients can be some of the most demanding, obnoxious, hard-to-please people. Whereas disadvantaged patients are often very grateful for your help, respectful, and more likely to follow your instructions (or at least attempt to).
Click to expand...

Again this depends on the patient. Wealthy people are definitely more litiginous and uptodate with things since they have the luxury of looking things up.. Can be spoiled brats.

But for the most part you are correct about being grateful.
 
koikisi said:
Bottom line, it seems that the trend in my hospital is that there is too much work/stress for everyone (residents, nurses, ancillary staff), not enough funding, and just not enough beds for patients.
Click to expand...

A lot of what you describe sounds familiar. It's just a matter of learning how to adapt to your environment, and get stuff done for your patients in spite of the obstacles that are thrown your way. Some patience and knowing when to choose your battles, will go a long way. Luckily, training is a limited time only, and you'll be able to control your environment after that.
 
koikisi said:
I am definitely taking responsibility for things and have been on track with everything thus far (even when some people haven't). But to give you guys another example, it doesn't help or seem professional, when a training session that was suppose to start at 8AM did not start until 10AM, because of lack of organization/communication. The e-mail clearly said 8 AM and be prompt, but no one showed up until 9:30 AM. This had to do with miscommunication with the coordinator and the chief resident/one of the attendings. This is the real world, and I am definitely willing to get used to it, but I feel that there should be some accountability.
Click to expand...

Even in the best possible light, cumulatively your complaints don't justify your emotional response or this thread. When you're the boss start at 8, until then I don't think you have the stripes to call anyone unprofessional. You are assuming there must be a communication issue or a lack of accountability, frankly your comments are beyond your pay grade.
 
22031 Alum said:
A lot of what you describe sounds familiar. It's just a matter of learning how to adapt to your environment, and get stuff done for your patients in spite of the obstacles that are thrown your way. Some patience and knowing when to choose your battles, will go a long way. Luckily, training is a limited time only, and you'll be able to control your environment after that.
Click to expand...

Yes. I'm just banking on this 4 years going by fast.

I will admit, a good part of my frustration is with some of the current residents who I had reached out to who indicated this was a cordial environment and the PD was someone who is very supportive and friendly (similar to most places I interviewed at). They also told me things about rotations which are not the case anymore. I don't like the fact that the residents are now telling us the dirty laundry and how hostile the faculty can be.

I ranked this place higher than others based on location and what advice I had gotten from current residents. Even though this is just orientation week, I do feel that I am having a difficult time adapting and some of the things that I have encountered are surprising.

So far the only happy person and pleasant person I have met is the chief resident. He seems to be a pretty laid back and nice guy.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
tkim said:
I don't know - in looking at your previous posts you seem to categorize lots of people as 'millenials' but are you sure that that's the reason for why they say what they say?


http://forums.studentdoctor.net/search/13252351/?q=mille*&t=post&o=relevance&c[user][0]=486825

I know it's easy to knee-jerk and blame things on perceived stereotypical generational differences, but it doesn't really add much to discussion.
Click to expand...

While we digress, I'm compelled to inform you the pendulum is at an extreme and there is a lot to discuss.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Oh my God. Did this post remind anyone of Elle from Legally blond? Or is it just me. I swear, that was what my minds eye kept seeing. Poor little rich suburban girl now with the uncivilized hood people. Lol.
OP, you will be fine. Keep head down, mouth shut, take care of patients, study and it will be over one day. The clock always keeps ticking.
 
koikisi said:
Not matching was not a serious possibility since this was about half way down my list. I chose it because there was minimal snow and the residents really put together a good friend on interview day. But you never know about any place.

I have jumped in, and luckily the chief resident is a really nice guy, much different than the PC, and some of the residents I've met. But I really wish they had been a bit more vocal about their feelings on interview day.
Click to expand...
really? you think that the interview day and interview dinner was about giving YOU forthright information? PLEEEAZE!!! the interview day is for them to see if you are acceptable...the residents that are going to say bad things about the program don't participate in the dinner or the interview day...

and if you went to the middle of your ROL, then yes you had concerns about not matching...
if you chose a program because of little snow and impression from the PR of the program on interview day, well...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
  • Locked
Residency Predicament - Advice?
Replies
3
Views
2K
chilly_md
chilly_md
B
Terminated from residency. What should I do?
Replies
36
Views
4K
dozitgetchahi
D
M
Residency program category question
Replies
4
Views
3K
hallowmann
hallowmann
D
SDN Article: The Career Costs of Setting Boundaries in Residency
Replies
1
Views
430
comp1
C
D
Residency termination/resignation (long post, really struggling)
Replies
5
Views
3K
hallowmann
hallowmann