Unification of Residencies

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joeDO2

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Your reactions to the announcement today that all residency programs DO and MD will be unified with all being accredited by the ACGME and most likely a single residency match?
 
joeDO2 said:
Your reactions to the announcement today that all residency programs DO and MD will be unified with all being accredited by the ACGME and most likely a single residency match?
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I dunno if it's good or bad that I'm matching in 2014.... I guess we will see.

If I want to I could always do a TY and enter the combined match in 2015, it's nice to have options👍
 
joeDO2 said:
Your reactions to the announcement today that all residency programs DO and MD will be unified with all being accredited by the ACGME and most likely a single residency match?
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Wow, this is actually happening. It will be very interesting to see how the match develops, and what this means in terms of the change in competitiveness of both allo and osteopathic students. My guess is that (former) DO residencies will continue to match mostly DO students, and vice versa.
 
Arcan57 said:
Wow, this is actually happening. It will be very interesting to see how the match develops, and what this means in terms of the change in competitiveness of both allo and osteopathic students. My guess is that (former) DO residencies will continue to match mostly DO students, and vice versa.
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yes, probably. I think there are 3 HUGE benefits to DOs starting with my year (2015) however...

1. we can rank our programs based on what we think will be the best fit regardless of trying to strategize between the two matches occurring at different times as it is now.
2. we can stop talking about all these problems with entering allopathic fellowships
3. some of the lower tier DO programs will not meet accreditation standards and will be weeded out

I do wonder what this will mean for matching EM overall. I'm in the guinea pig year so I guess we'll see what happens.....
 
joeDO2 said:
Your reactions to the announcement today that all residency programs DO and MD will be unified with all being accredited by the ACGME and most likely a single residency match?
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Personally, I think this is great. The next step should be the elimination of COMLEX so that there's a single, high quality, standardized test.
 
Old_Mil said:
Personally, I think this is great. The next step should be the elimination of COMLEX so that there's a single, high quality, standardized test.
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that would be great, but difficult due to OMM questions.
 
Anyone able to speculate what this means for board certification if we do a "former" DO residency? Do we have to be members of the AOA? Do we have to do those ridiculous charts to get certified still? Or is it purely like doing any other MD residency now?
 
I think this ends up screwing the DOs going into competitive residencies more. Im sure theres plenty of orthopods or Neurosurgeons who wouldnt mind doing a little bit of OMM if it helped them match.

I wonder what kind of effect it will have on IMGs?
 
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Wait, wait, wait.. what ? This is.... someone needs to explain to me precisely what this means.

I'm done with residency, and I liked my program, but if I could have applied to DO residencies... oh how different my life would have been.
 
RustedFox said:
Wait, wait, wait.. what ? This is.... someone needs to explain to me precisely what this means.

I'm done with residency, and I liked my program, but if I could have applied to DO residencies... oh how different my life would have been.
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Basically, there is going to be one match which will make it easier on DOs. They will be able to apply to MD programs and not have to worry about deciding bw the MD and DO match. I think alot of details still need to be worked out, but it appears MDs will be able to apply to the traditional DO programs but they may be forced to do some extra time in OMM or something.
 
RustedFox said:
Wow.

I wish they had this four years ago. I would have maybe been able to stay in PA. I love PA.
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Yeah the "combined" match would happen the year after I graduate. I'm severely torn between the two matches due to location/specialty considerations so it makes me curious how things would work out to go for a DO TY then enter the combined match....
 
RustedFox said:
Wow.

I wish they had this four years ago. I would have maybe been able to stay in PA. I love PA.
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Yeah...i could see it working both ways for IMGs. On one hand it opens up the door for DOs and MD residencies....and all else being equal a DO gets the nod over an equivalent MD, but on the other hand it opens up some of the less competitive DO spots to IMGs.
 
winkleweizen said:
Yeah...i could see it working both ways for IMGs. On one hand it opens up the door for DOs and MD residencies....and all else being equal a DO gets the nod over an equivalent MD, but on the other hand it opens up some of the less competitive DO spots to IMGs.
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It might be good for IMG's if the AOA really stands firm on wanting MD students to do a significant amount of OMM.
Right now virtually no allo schools offer OMM, so they'd have to go out of their way to get their students up to AOA standards if they indeed want us to be even semi-competent in something most of us have zero clue about to allow us the option of applying to former AOA programs. I'm not even sure how they'd go about it. Given that allo schools still have the vast majority of the residencies, I doubt they'd go too far out of their way to DO-ify their students. On the other hand, Caribbean med schools would have every incentive to have really good OMM training for their students so they could really compete with DO's for those extra residency spots. Either way, I'm not sure DO's win this one.
 
how much training do you think an MD student would need to get up to speed on OMM?
 
migm said:
how much training do you think an MD student would need to get up to speed on OMM?
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To learn enough buzz phrases to pass the OMM portion of the COMLEX not very long. Maybe a couple weeks of studying Savarese.

To learn the physical aspect of it is something that takes time spaced out over a couple years. Even then I wouldn't be excited to have my fellow students work on me. To get really good takes a lot of practice and years, just like any other physical ability.
 
Zero clue. I know absolutely nothing about OMM. But given that DO students do entire rotations dedicated to it, study it as a separate subject, and are tested on it on their standardized tests, I'd imagine it would take more than an online quiz.
 
migm said:
how much training do you think an MD student would need to get up to speed on OMM?
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2 weeks. you wouldn't be good at the physical part, but I think you could easily learn enough to pass the board questions on it in that amount of time.
 
Wait, so DO students get to apply, without any extra hoops, to the Allopathic spots now, but Allopathic students still have to have background in this quackery known as OMM? Sounds like a bad deal for MDs...
 
Yep. I would have learned (or faked, depending on how you look at it) OMM too if it got me a residency spot in a place that I wanted to be in.

Its funny, I'm really close to a DO school and live amongst many DO students, and the vast majority of them share the opinion that OMM is kinda.... far out.
 
RockTheBoat said:
except no one besides you is calling it "alternative" medicine. As I have said previously, parts of it are skeptical, but a lot of it has some research, but it is not studied appropriately. Does it work the same as the gold standard? No. And I'm not claiming it. It is an adjunct.

It is a treatment technique. Sometimes you give Muscle Relaxers, they dont work. Soemtimes you give NSAIDs, they dont work. Sometimes you use OMM, it may not work.

Yall are really some negative nancies. You dont like it? Dont use it! Simple. Or just keep spouting off a bunch of bs when you have done ZERO research on the topic.

I find it funny that we ED guys give controversial treatments all the time, and do a lot of things that have ZERO proven efficacy, but then dismiss OMM. Based on time restrictions, OMM will never be in my treatment plan for the ED, but not based on treatment efficacy.
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I make every effort to do as much EBM as I can. I don't let my residents do things that are harmful, or have no proven benefit (ABx for sinusitis, bronchitis, etc).
I'm never going to research OMM. However, I have read some research on it, and again, it isn't any different from sham massage.
Yes, giving people backrubs makes them feel better than doing nothing. But the way you move your hands doesn't matter.
Again, if you want to show us some studies that say OMM is better than massage, then feel free to post them. But don't use your lack of evidence to fault our lack of embracing alternative medicine.

And don't get me started on cranial.
 
Dr.McNinja said:
And don't get me started on cranial.
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I think the vast majority of DOs feel similarly about cranial. But I'll say it before and I'll say it again, some OMM does work.

Example- I have a partially separated AC joint from snowboarding that causes me some serious strain in my thoracics. I tried a lot of things, PT, meds, even had MRI to see if surgery would help. I tried having classmates and even some faculty do OMM on me to no avail. Then I got the chair of our department to work on me and I kid you not its about the only way to go pain free for about a week. (Assuming I do my part ie stretches/exercises etc)

Point is when done by an experienced practitioner it can work really well for MSK complaints. As far as having a solid place in EBM not so much, but that doesn't mean it's not useful.

I don't plan on using it in my practice but I doubt I'll ever get away from doing it for friends and family.
 
This seems like a solid win for the DO students, but not so much for the MD students. While some school will maintain traditional biases against DO students, this move clearly makes it easier for a DO student to match. It seems doubtful to me that quality former DO residencies will embrace MD students., especially if they're going to require proof of competency in OMM. This perception (which may not be accurate) is going to drive some conflict as allopathic students just saw their chances of matching decrease.
 
Arcan57 said:
It seems doubtful to me that quality former DO residencies will embrace MD students., especially if they're going to require proof of competency in OMM. This perception (which may not be accurate) is going to drive some conflict as allopathic students just saw their chances of matching decrease.
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I think many will.....and they should. The best programs on both sides should simply take the best candidate, MD or DO. At least that's the way it would be in my fantasy world.
 
The big benefit is going to be for the DOs, obviously. I don't think it will have anything to do with allo programs becoming any more or less DO friendly, but it will allow them to apply, interview and rank both kinds of programs so they don't have to take any major risks like they do now in choosing which match to enter. I think it's going to be largely irrelevant for AMGs except a few borderline candidates for the more competitive specialties who may want to try for some osteo Derm/Neurosurg/Ortho programs. The IMGs (particularly the Carib grads) are the ones who are going to take it in the shorts here.
 
This new AOA/ACGME agreement does not currently involve a single match, but it is being discussed from what I've read. It should, however, mean that all MD and DO residencies will be held to the same accrediting standards. It also means that if someone completes a DO residency that won't be held against them if they apply to an ACGME fellowship. I think this is a move in the right direction and hope they do eventually agree to a unified match as well.
 
Meh administratively I think this cleans things up...

I'm not in a DO program btw. I just find DO's slightly (1-5%, p<0.1) cooler doctors imho.
 
johnnydrama said:
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

A B12 shot is more likely to help someone than cranial...
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Not if you have chronic sinusitis.

I was more so referring to the "medicine" being given a bit too liberally which I believe may have something to do with the reimbursement format.

Point is while OMM has it's faults (cranial/CRI/ etc), it is still efficacious in appropriate circumstances. Hence not "quackery".
 
TeamZissou said:
Not if you have chronic sinusitis.

I was more so referring to the "medicine" being given a bit too liberally which I believe may have something to do with the reimbursement format.

Point is while OMM has it's faults (cranial/CRI/ etc), it is still efficacious in appropriate circumstances. Hence not "quackery".
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Yes. It is.

Just like acupuncture (which actually has firmer "evidence" behind it), OMM is a big steaming pile of quack.

Most DO students will even readily admit it.
 
gutonc said:
The big benefit is going to be for the DOs, obviously. I don't think it will have anything to do with allo programs becoming any more or less DO friendly, but it will allow them to apply, interview and rank both kinds of programs so they don't have to take any major risks like they do now in choosing which match to enter. I think it's going to be largely irrelevant for AMGs except a few borderline candidates for the more competitive specialties who may want to try for some osteo Derm/Neurosurg/Ortho programs. The IMGs (particularly the Carib grads) are the ones who are going to take it in the shorts here.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by 'take it in the shorts'?
 
johnnydrama said:
Yes. It is.

Just like acupuncture (which actually has firmer "evidence" behind it), OMM is a big steaming pile of quack.

Most DO students will even readily admit it.
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I'm not even a DO, but just leave it be and go troll somewhere else.
 
Most med students don't even know when OMM could be used clinically.

I like you man, but damn you're stubborn.
 
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