University counseling center jobs - Clinical vs Counseling Psych degree?

[jade33]

Hello all,

Is a clinical PhD or PsyD track the best path to follow in order to eventually reach my goal of working at a university counseling center in both a counseling and administrative role? (e.g. Director of Counseling). I know that the Counseling Psych PhD is popular with this goal in mind, but many of those programs seem to require a Masters degree before going on to the doctoral track - which would be both expensive and time consuming. I am a career changer and having been out of school for some time now, would like to avoid doing two degrees if I can achieve my goals by going directly to the doctoral path. Any insight?

Thanks!

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[PsychPoet]

Hello all,

Is a clinical PhD or PsyD track the best path to follow in order to eventually reach my goal of working at a university counseling center in both a counseling and administrative role? (e.g. Director of Counseling). I know that the Counseling Psych PhD is popular with this goal in mind, but many of those programs seem to require a Masters degree before going on to the doctoral track - which would be both expensive and time consuming. I am a career changer and having been out of school for some time now, would like to avoid doing two degrees if I can achieve my goals by going directly to the doctoral path. Any insight?

Thanks!

I think you have *some* wiggle-room here, but in my experience the offers many advantages to the PsyD if you're looking to work in a university counseling center.

I guess an important question would be - what do you intend to do at the counseling center? If you simply want to be a clinician I'd suggest an LMHC or LICSW would accomplish that for you.

Given that you are focused on the doctoral degree I'm assuming that you want to be a director of a CCC? If that's the case the PhD is the clear choice.

If expense if your concern I don't see how a PsyD is an advantage to an MA/PhD route. 1) Many PsyD's are unfunded with the exception of loans and 2) many MA's are funded.

 

[futureapppsy2]

2) many MA's are funded.

Really? I'm surprised--the only fully funded one I've heard of is Wake Forest.

 

[JockNerd]

Everyone at the Counseling Center where I am (decently prestigious R1 public) is a PhD in Counseling Psych. This is the case for prettymuch 90% of folks at prettymuch all the solid counseling centers around. Most of the others are clinical people, and there are few PsyDs in such places.

 

[jade33]

I think you have *some* wiggle-room here, but in my experience the offers many advantages to the PsyD if you're looking to work in a university counseling center.

I guess an important question would be - what do you intend to do at the counseling center? If you simply want to be a clinician I'd suggest an LMHC or LICSW would accomplish that for you.

Given that you are focused on the doctoral degree I'm assuming that you want to be a director of a CCC? If that's the case the PhD is the clear choice.

If expense if your concern I don't see how a PsyD is an advantage to an MA/PhD route. 1) Many PsyD's are unfunded with the exception of loans and 2) many MA's are funded.

Thanks. Perhaps I need to clarify - my question is not whether to pursue a doctoral degree or a masters degree, but whether clinical or counseling psych is a better track for the end goal of working in a university counseling center.

 

[jade33]

Everyone at the Counseling Center where I am (decently prestigious R1 public) is a PhD in Counseling Psych. This is the case for prettymuch 90% of folks at prettymuch all the solid counseling centers around. Most of the others are clinical people, and there are few PsyDs in such places.

Thanks. Do you happen to know if those with the PhD in Counseling Psych also pursued a Masters in the same field before earning their doctoral degree?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Thanks. Perhaps I need to clarify - my question is not whether to pursue a doctoral degree or a masters degree, but whether clinical or counseling psych is a better track for the end goal of working in a university counseling center.

Masters v. Doctoral is an important question, because the paths and training are very different. Since you mentioned wanting to work in a university counseling setting, you'd have a better shot with a doctoral degree, particularly if you want to eventually run a counseling center. As for counseling v. clinical....that is probably more program specific than degree specific.

There is also a difference between a license eligible MA/MS (typically called a "terminating" masters because the goal is licensure), and a MA/MS meant as a stepping stone for doctoral training.

 

[psychmama]

Everyone at the Counseling Center where I am (decently prestigious R1 public) is a PhD in Counseling Psych. This is the case for prettymuch 90% of folks at prettymuch all the solid counseling centers around. Most of the others are clinical people, and there are few PsyDs in such places.

This really varies. Some counseling centers do tend to prefer counseling psych PhDs, but more and more PsyDs are seen at counseling centers these days. I suggest you take a look at the websites of many university counseling centers, and you'll see what I mean. Two of the ones I'm familiar with (having worked or interviewed there) have Directors who are PsyDs. Do some online sleuthing for yourself...

edit: Also, there are plenty of Clinical PhDs at counseling centers too.

 

[PsychPoet]

As to clinical or counseling I'd have to imagine that's a pretty moot point. I've never heard of a CCC having such specific preferences.

I mean, given the overlap at this point between the two disciplines it's pretty much the same training - just with a different emphasis.

 

[PsychPoet]

Really? I'm surprised--the only fully funded one I've heard of is Wake Forest.

Yeah, when I was coming out of undergrad this was a very salient issue for me.

I was able to locate 7 programs that funded at the MA level, and when looking below the surface of traditional funding (departmenal) sources found that around 65% of the programs I looked provided nearly guaranteed funding from outside the dept in the form of a grad assistantship or something similar.

Essentially, my findings suggested that the typical "an MA is too expensive, nothing but loans" paradigm is incomplete at best, and just incorrect otherwise.

As it is, I've finished my MA at a prestigious school having been fully funded for the 5 semesters (one summer was mandatory) that the program required.

 

[KillerDiller]

As to clinical or counseling I'd have to imagine that's a pretty moot point. I've never heard of a CCC having such specific preferences.

I mean, given the overlap at this point between the two disciplines it's pretty much the same training - just with a different emphasis.

I second this, the distinction between clinical and counseling is neither large nor universal enough to make a difference when applying for these types of positions. Simply look for programs that best match your research and clinical interests.

 

[RileyG]

Essentially, my findings suggested that the typical "an MA is too expensive, nothing but loans" paradigm is incomplete at best, and just incorrect otherwise.

agreed

 

[nycegurl]

I agree with the comments above. At my university's counseling center we have people with Clinical PsyD's, Clinical PhD's and Counseling Psychology PhD degrees so there are many options. I guess you should think about what type of emphasis you want to learn about since that can help you decide between clinical and counseling.

Personally, I've applied to 2 counseling psych PhD programs straight from undergrad (since there are many that take students without MA's) and these are accredited programs that have been around for a while. Hope this helps.

 

[PrisonPsych]

Really? I'm surprised--the only fully funded one I've heard of is Wake Forest.

My master's was fully funded (tuition waiver incl. out of state waiver + very small stipend in exchange for working 10 hours a week for a professor).

 

[Jezebel09]

My master's was fully funded (tuition waiver incl. out of state waiver + very small stipend in exchange for working 10 hours a week for a professor).

I think the problem here is that people have varying ideas of what "fully funded" means. For some, it means a tuition waiver and a small stipend. For others, it means a tuition waiver and $20,000 stipend.

 

[positivepsych]

The student psych clinic I'm familiar with has mostly Clinical PhDs (including the director), with a few Counseling PhDs, PsyDs, and Master's level clinicians.

What is more important is that you have to realize that many cities only have 1, maybe 2 counseling centers at major universities. In each clinic, there is only 1 director, many of whom have been in that place for decades.

Only wanting to work at a counseling center is pretty limiting as a psychologist, especially if you only want to work in a particular geographical locale. If you're going to be that narrow, you either better be an exceptional hire, or be willing to move around the country.

Furthermore, wanting to be a training director means you're applying for 1-2 jobs in each city, either of which may only have an opening once every decade. This just seems like poor statistical odds to me.

If you can only see yourself happy as the director of a student psych clinic, I would reconsider a career in psychology, or broaden your mindset about other opportunities in the field.

 

[PsychPoet]

I think the problem here is that people have varying ideas of what "fully funded" means. For some, it means a tuition waiver and a small stipend. For others, it means a tuition waiver and $20,000 stipend.

For me it meant having quite a few people (as well as print and online) resources tell me that in many ways a MA in psych was a poor choice because I'd go into massive debt and still be without guarantees. The primary point that you always hear in these conversations is that MA degrees are unfunded and loans are your only option for funding. This is just not the case, though it does seem to be a VERY widely held belief.

I received a full tuition waiver, paid insurance, and a $10,000/year stipend for VERY minimal work as a GA. I would consider this "fully funded at the MA level."

If that were my funding level in a PhD program I would not consider that fully funded.

So, if the operationalized definition of fully funded is the same as above with a $20,000 stipend then yes, very few if any MA programs provide that. I can't see where or why anyone would consider holding an MA program to that standard though.