University Is In Progress Of Being WASC Accredited

[JustynaJustice]

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Hello!

I have a question. My future school... California Institute for Human Science is right in the middle of getting WASC accredited. They just passed the first phase of 3 or 4 (which ever it is).

My background is that I have a B.A. in Psychology from San Diego State University (2.63 GPA) and a MBA in Marketing from American InterContinental University (3.3 GPA). So no license in my masters program. I was advised to do a MBA for business purposes if I want to have my own practice. That was some bad advice I received. But it's too late to go back now, I can only move forward now.

My question is should I do the Ph.D in Clinical Psychology with their accreditation still pending? They will know by 2020 for sure or before. I'm desperate to go because my MBA is from an online school. Plus my undergraduate degree has a low GPA. I actually myself ran into mental health challenges, which is why I want to enter the field myself. I feel limited though based on my situation. I am an immigrant from Poland, not even a first generation American. I am a first generation college student. No one in my family has gone this far in education. I want to go all the way. The school will cost less than 25K for the entire program. I'm looking for scholarships. So maybe by the time I find funding, they will get a response back about the accreditation. I don't know. Not sure what to do at this point. Just wait? Here is the link for the school. Any advice is greatly appreciated. The school is willing to work with me and have me take extra Masters classes to be on the same level as the other students. That's rare. At state schools, I always got the door slammed in my face. Typical.

http://www.cihs.edu/

 

[MAClinician]

You need a program that is APA accredited.

 

[erg923]

Hello!

I have a question. My future school... California Institute for Human Science is right in the middle of getting WASC accredited. They just passed the first phase of 3 or 4 (which ever it is).

Meaningless

 

[JustynaJustice]

You need a program that is APA accredited.

Why? If I may ask.

 

[Diirez]

Hello!

I have a question. My future school... California Institute for Human Science is right in the middle of getting WASC accredited. They just passed the first phase of 3 or 4 (which ever it is).

My background is that I have a B.A. in Psychology from San Diego State University (2.63 GPA) and a MBA in Marketing from American InterContinental University (3.3 GPA). So no license in my masters program. I was advised to do a MBA for business purposes if I want to have my own practice. That was some bad advice I received. But it's too late to go back now, I can only move forward now.

My question is should I do the Ph.D in Clinical Psychology with their accreditation still pending? They will know by 2020 for sure or before. I'm desperate to go because my MBA is from an online school. Plus my undergraduate degree has a low GPA. I actually myself ran into mental health challenges, which is why I want to enter the field myself. I feel limited though based on my situation. I am an immigrant from Poland, not evenough a first generation American. I am a first generation college student. No one in my family has gone this far in education. I want to go all the way. The school will cost less than 25K for the entire program. I'm looking for scholarships. So maybe by the time I find funding, they will get a response back about the accreditation. I don't know. Not sure what to do at this point. Just wait? Here is the link for the school. Any advice is greatly appreciated. The school is willing to work with me and have me take extra Masters classes to be on the same level as the other students. That's rare. At state schools, I always got the door slammed in my face. Typical.

http://www.cihs.edu/

I would not take it. For starters, you should never take the risk with an unaccredited institution. It just is not worth it spending any money to have a big probability to end up with a useless degree.

Secondly, the program does not seem like it is a good program. You should check in with them on the taking the extra Masters classes. What that sounds like to me is for them to be able to charge you more credits and keep you there longer to increase the money revenue from you while looking good in the process.

The other thing I would say is you have to look at the program's rigor and whether or not it can become something marketable to get a job. Just looking at the classes it does not seem like this would be marketable for a health science career. For instance;
This is a core class: Spiritual Education (4 units)
These are core classes for specialties:
Mind Body Energy Psychology (4 units)
Advanced Consciousness Studies (4 units)
Foundations of Energy Psychology (4 units)
Clinical Applications of Energy Psychology (4 units)
Bio-Energetic Psychology and Therapy (4 units)
Hypnotherapy and Guided Imagery (4 units)
Psychology of Shamanism (4 units)
Transpersonal Psychology (4 units)

So this sounds like a school that is not focused on actual science. I also took a look at their affiliates and it is even scarier:
"The New Science of the Paranormal" http://synchronizeduniverse.com/
The Iris Institute, which seems just strange to me and they offer alternative educational tracks (http://www.irisinstitute.net/programs.html)
This one is for energy healing (http://www.pranichealingsd.com/)

There's also talks by faculty on chakra healing.

My answer is a big no because you may get the degree, but jobs will be hard and not to mention this is entirely the opposite of where Psychology should be heading.

 

[JustynaJustice]

I would not take it. For starters, you should never take the risk with an unaccredited institution. It just is not worth it spending any money to have a big probability to end up with a useless degree.

Secondly, the program does not seem like it is a good program. You should check in with them on the taking the extra Masters classes. What that sounds like to me is for them to be able to charge you more credits and keep you there longer to increase the money revenue from you while looking good in the process.

The other thing I would say is you have to look at the program's rigor and whether or not it can become something marketable to get a job. Just looking at the classes it does not seem like this would be marketable for a health science career. For instance;
This is a core class: Spiritual Education (4 units)
These are core classes for specialties:
Mind Body Energy Psychology (4 units)
Advanced Consciousness Studies (4 units)
Foundations of Energy Psychology (4 units)
Clinical Applications of Energy Psychology (4 units)
Bio-Energetic Psychology and Therapy (4 units)
Hypnotherapy and Guided Imagery (4 units)
Psychology of Shamanism (4 units)
Transpersonal Psychology (4 units)

So this sounds like a school that is not focused on actual science. I also took a look at their affiliates and it is even scarier:
"The New Science of the Paranormal" http://synchronizeduniverse.com/
The Iris Institute, which seems just strange to me and they offer alternative educational tracks (http://www.irisinstitute.net/programs.html)
This one is for energy healing (http://www.pranichealingsd.com/)

There's also talks by faculty on chakra healing.

My answer is a big no because you may get the degree, but jobs will be hard and not to mention this is entirely the opposite of where Psychology should be heading.

I'm a Christian so I believe in the mind, body and spirit connection. I like their approach.

 

[erg923]

I'm a Christian so I believe in the mind, body and spirit connection. I like their approach.

Then go to the seminary.

 

[JustynaJustice]

I would not take it. For starters, you should never take the risk with an unaccredited institution. It just is not worth it spending any money to have a big probability to end up with a useless degree.

Secondly, the program does not seem like it is a good program. You should check in with them on the taking the extra Masters classes. What that sounds like to me is for them to be able to charge you more credits and keep you there longer to increase the money revenue from you while looking good in the process.

The other thing I would say is you have to look at the program's rigor and whether or not it can become something marketable to get a job. Just looking at the classes it does not seem like this would be marketable for a health science career. For instance;
This is a core class: Spiritual Education (4 units)
These are core classes for specialties:
Mind Body Energy Psychology (4 units)
Advanced Consciousness Studies (4 units)
Foundations of Energy Psychology (4 units)
Clinical Applications of Energy Psychology (4 units)
Bio-Energetic Psychology and Therapy (4 units)
Hypnotherapy and Guided Imagery (4 units)
Psychology of Shamanism (4 units)
Transpersonal Psychology (4 units)

So this sounds like a school that is not focused on actual science. I also took a look at their affiliates and it is even scarier:
"The New Science of the Paranormal" http://synchronizeduniverse.com/
The Iris Institute, which seems just strange to me and they offer alternative educational tracks (http://www.irisinstitute.net/programs.html)
This one is for energy healing (http://www.pranichealingsd.com/)

There's also talks by faculty on chakra healing.

My answer is a big no because you may get the degree, but jobs will be hard and not to mention this is entirely the opposite of where Psychology should be heading.

You chose their Internal Track. I'm not interested in that one. I'm interested in their Clinical Psychology Program.

Here are those classes for that....

 

[JustynaJustice]

What's the difference between being APA Accredited and Board of Psychology Accreditation? They go down the Board of Psychology track.

 

[Diirez]

You chose their Internal Track. I'm not interested in that one. I'm interested in their Clinical Psychology Program.

Here are those classes for that....

First off, you need an APA accredited PhD program or you can't be licensed and you most certainly will not be able to get a research career from this school.

Secondly,
Any school that has classes like that, should not be taken seriously. Clinical Psychology is a scientific and health care oriented field. Meaning clinicians must use evidence based practices and strong scientific knowledge, not pseudoscience. You can most certainly be religious and a psychologist, but you do not want to integrate religious aspects into psychology. Why? Because Psychology is a scientific field that relies on what it can test and prove. We need that because otherwise we would not be considered a genuine healthcare career and just put into the corner with Reiki and Bioenergetics, like your school seems to like teaching.

You might be better off trying to become someone who goes down those routes. Like with Reiki or other spiritual healing practices. Psychology has no room for that.

 

[forcefive17]

Hello!

I have a question. My future school... California Institute for Human Science is right in the middle of getting WASC accredited. They just passed the first phase of 3 or 4 (which ever it is).

My background is that I have a B.A. in Psychology from San Diego State University (2.63 GPA) and a MBA in Marketing from American InterContinental University (3.3 GPA). So no license in my masters program. I was advised to do a MBA for business purposes if I want to have my own practice. That was some bad advice I received. But it's too late to go back now, I can only move forward now.

My question is should I do the Ph.D in Clinical Psychology with their accreditation still pending? They will know by 2020 for sure or before. I'm desperate to go because my MBA is from an online school. Plus my undergraduate degree has a low GPA. I actually myself ran into mental health challenges, which is why I want to enter the field myself. I feel limited though based on my situation. I am an immigrant from Poland, not even a first generation American. I am a first generation college student. No one in my family has gone this far in education. I want to go all the way. The school will cost less than 25K for the entire program. I'm looking for scholarships. So maybe by the time I find funding, they will get a response back about the accreditation. I don't know. Not sure what to do at this point. Just wait? Here is the link for the school. Any advice is greatly appreciated. The school is willing to work with me and have me take extra Masters classes to be on the same level as the other students. That's rare. At state schools, I always got the door slammed in my face. Typical.

http://www.cihs.edu/

What is your end goal?

 

[Ollie123]

Regional accreditation should NOT be a reason to attend a school anymore than it having 4 walls is a reason to buy a house. In fact, for clinical psychology this is more like buying a house because it has 3 walls and hey - close enough, right? APA accreditation is the 4th wall. Even that is just meeting a basic expectation...not something to get excited about.

The curriculum actually looks questionable to me. Some are obvious core classes, many basic requirements that should be there are missing, but either way the classes are only a small part of good doctoral training. The fact that their website does not make it easy to find a list of core faculty, but DOES provide a list of "affiliates" is quite damning in and of itself. I'm sorry to be harsh if you really had your heart set on this place, but this is simply NOT a good place to go. Your degree will not even be perceived as legitimate. I think there is a very real chance you will not be able to get a license and even if you can it will be very difficult to find a job. If your faith is important, there are a number of programs that will teach you proper ways to integrate it into work as a psychologist and help you effectively study its impact on people. This is not one of them.




Regulars - if you have some time to kill, go to the website for the PhD program and follow links to the affiliates along the side like I just did. This was the first I have ever been thrilled to see someone was doing EMDR. He was the "legit" one😉 Just trust me on this. Click and enjoy.

 

[PsychPhDone]

In the last 2 years, this program has graduated 1 person from the track you want who has current employment. Their licensure pass rate from 2010-2016 (assuming they did not duplicate people if they took the exam over multiple years) is 18%. Even if they get "regionally" accredited, your odds of getting licensed as a psychologist and getting gainfully employed is abysmally low.

I am located in CA and have never heard of this program, nor am I familiar with any reputable practicum or internship sites near this school that will take students from there.

I do not recommend you go there.

 

[JustynaJustice]

Regional accreditation should NOT be a reason to attend a school anymore than it having 4 walls is a reason to buy a house. In fact, for clinical psychology this is more like buying a house because it has 3 walls and hey - close enough, right? APA accreditation is the 4th wall. Even that is just meeting a basic expectation...not something to get excited about.

The curriculum actually looks questionable to me. Some are obvious core classes, many basic requirements that should be there are missing, but either way the classes are only a small part of good doctoral training. The fact that their website does not make it easy to find a list of core faculty, but DOES provide a list of "affiliates" is quite damning in and of itself. I'm sorry to be harsh if you really had your heart set on this place, but this is simply NOT a good place to go. Your degree will not even be perceived as legitimate. I think there is a very real chance you will not be able to get a license and even if you can it will be very difficult to find a job. If your faith is important, there are a number of programs that will teach you proper ways to integrate it into work as a psychologist and help you effectively study its impact on people. This is not one of them.




Regulars - if you have some time to kill, go to the website for the PhD program and follow links to the affiliates along the side like I just did. This was the first I have ever been thrilled to see someone was doing EMDR. He was the "legit" one😉 Just trust me on this. Click and enjoy.

Well, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. My faith is the center of who I am, so if you have suggestions as to how I can navigate through the remaining of my education and still incorporate my faith, I'm all ears. I want a good job in the end. My end goal is to try to make lemonade out of the lemons I have in my hand so to speak. I cannot go to seminary which I looked into as someone suggested. They don't want me because I don't have a MDiv. I searched. So I gotta work within Psychology since that is where my undergraduate is in. I only make $2500 a month and barely making it in Southern California. I need to move up, so I want to go back to school. I do want to help people too. That's a given.

Can you tell me the difference between APA and Board of Psychology? The school is not APA accredited, but it's on track to be accredited by the Board of Psychology which requires 8,000 hours of practice. I have a hard time believing that I'm going to do 8,000 hours of practice and NOT get a better job that pays more than the one I have now. I'm sure I will. I HAVE FAITH I WILL 😉

 

[PsychPhDone]

Well, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. My faith is the center of who I am, so if you have suggestions as to how I can navigate through the remaining of my education and still incorporate my faith, I'm all ears. I want a good job in the end. My end goal is to try to make lemonade out of the lemons I have in my had so to speak. I cannot go to semiary which I looked into as someone suggested. They don't want me because I don't have a MDiv. I searched. So I gotta work within Psychology since that is where my undergraduate is in. I only make $2500 a month and barely making it in Southern California. I need to move up, so I want to go back to school. I do want to help people too. That's a given.

Can you tell me the difference between APA and Board of Psychology? The school is not APA accredited, but it's on track to be accredited by the Board of Psychology which requires 8,000 hours of practice. I have a hard time believing that I'm going to do 8,000 hours of practice and NOT get a better job that pays more than the one I have now. I'm sure I will. I HAVE FAITH I WILL 😉

Here's an analogy that may or may not help:
You have decided the only way to be happy in life is get married, and you must do it ASAP. You get rejected by the successful, good looking, kind potential partners. So you decide you'll settle for anyone of your faith who lives nearby and will take you, regardless of their other qualities. They don't intend on helping you with anything at all. They have no money and no job, so you're on the hook for rent and utilities.

Does this sound like a good idea?

 

[JustynaJustice]

Here's an analogy that may or may not help:
You have decided the only way to be happy in life is get married, and you must do it ASAP. You get rejected by the successful, good looking, kind potential partners. So you decide you'll settle for anyone of your faith who lives nearby and will take you, regardless of their other qualities. They don't intend on helping you with anything at all. They have no money and no job, so you're on the hook for rent and utilities.

Does this sound like a good idea?

That's actually inaccurate. I have experience with mental health challenges. Because of this, I believe I'm an asset to the field because I know first hand how it feels. I didn't just read it in the book like you did, I lived it. It's a personal matter for me too. I want to help people like me who almost didn't make it, like me. I almost slipped through the cracks...but I'm still here fighting for me and I want to fight for others. So although your analogy is cute, it's completely not true. Getting a Ph.D is something I want to do, but it's not the only thing I want to do with my life. There's more. I'm writing a book too and have other plans as well.

 

[PsychPhDone]

That's actually inaccurate. I have experience with mental health challenges. Because of this, I believe I'm an asset to the field because I know first hand how it feels. I didn't just read it in the book like you did, I lived it. It's a personal matter for me too. I want to help people like me who almost didn't make it, like me. I almost slipped through the cracks...but I'm still here fighting for me and I want to fight for others. So although your analogy is cute, it's completely not true. Getting a Ph.D is something I want to do, but it's not the only thing I want to do with my life. There's more. I'm writing a book too and have other plans as well.

Maybe "the only way" was a bit dramatic, but regardless, I stand by my recommendation that you not pursue this school. I am doubtful there is anything we can say to dissuade you. (Is there anything we could say? Would you need 20 people to tell you not to do it?)

I have not lived your life, but I have lived getting my PhD in clinical psychology and training/practicing in California. I wish you the best of luck with your goals.

 

[JustynaJustice]

Maybe "the only way" was a bit dramatic, but regardless, I stand by my recommendation that you not pursue this school. I am doubtful there is anything we can say to dissuade you. (Is there anything we could say? Would you need 20 people to tell you not to do it?)

I have not lived your life, but I have lived getting my PhD in clinical psychology and training/practicing in California. I wish you the best of luck with your goals.

I'm open to suggestions...

 

[Ollie123]

Well...actually going to get an MDiv could be an option. Either way, there are a fair number of Christian universities out there that incorporate elements and even quite a few secular ones that are open to folks doing work in that area. Heck, a colleague at my (extremely atheist-heavy) state school did work examining how religion helps people cope with cancer. An MDiv is an option. Did you know that many psychology programs will pay YOU to attend school (and frankly - not a whole lot less than you are making right now)? Its an uphill battle with a low UG GPA, but if that is the only glitch its not an insurmountable barrier.

I didn't just read it in the book like you did, I lived it.

Psychological disorders have awfully high prevalence rates. I'm not sure I'd recommend going around assuming you are the only person who has experienced them.

 

[JustynaJustice]

There is this option. I would have to commute from San Diego to Los Angeles and find over 100K... but it's a bether option. Azusa is an APA accredited school and fully Christian based.

 

[MAClinician]

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/doctoral-applicants-read-first-helpful-threads.714255/

 

[Diirez]

That's actually inaccurate. I have experience with mental health challenges. Because of this, I believe I'm an asset to the field because I know first hand how it feels. I didn't just read it in the book like you did, I lived it. It's a personal matter for me too. I want to help people like me who almost didn't make it, like me. I almost slipped through the cracks...but I'm still here fighting for me and I want to fight for others. So although your analogy is cute, it's completely not true. Getting a Ph.D is something I want to do, but it's not the only thing I want to do with my life. There's more. I'm writing a book too and have other plans as well.

I have a hard time even condoning the idea of theological based psychology. If your goal is to be a clinician then you are a scientist-practitioner. One of the biggest things about being a scientist is being skeptical and relying on empirical evidence. Not to say you can't be a religious person, but your practice needs to rely on evidence based training. It sounds like you are more oriented to spiritual healing practices and are just trying to go through the motion of Psychology. Psychology is not a spiritual healing practice. Psychology is not the next step from seminary school, which makes me question that Clinical Psych really fits for you.

You came here asking for opinions on a doctoral program which has very logical warning signs. The PsyD program is definitely better than the other program but honestly what is the worth here? From the sounds of it, you'll be loaded in debt and going into a career that does not seem oriented towards your goals..

 

[JustynaJustice]

Okay, I got the note about not posting in the wrong thread. GOT IT, THANKS 😉

There is Southern California Seminary. The above snapshot is from their site. Why do they ALL say that the program prepares you for licensure for the Board of Psychology? What if APA accreditation is overrated and overpriced? This one is 20K, I think. Not certain.

https://www.socalsem.edu/doctor-of-psychology/

 

[JustynaJustice]

I have a hard time even condoning the idea of theological based psychology. If your goal is to be a clinician then you are a scientist-practitioner. One of the biggest things about being a scientist is being skeptical and relying on empirical evidence. Not to say you can't be a religious person, but your practice needs to rely on evidence based training. It sounds like you are more oriented to spiritual healing practices and are just trying to go through the motion of Psychology. Psychology is not a spiritual healing practice. Psychology is not the next step from seminary school, which makes me question that Clinical Psych really fits for you.

You came here asking for opinions on a doctoral program which has very logical warning signs. The PsyD program is definitely better than the other program but honestly what is the worth here? From the sounds of it, you'll be loaded in debt and going into a career that does not seem oriented towards your goals..

Because I said I was open to suggestions and other alternatives.

 

[Diirez]

View attachment 214524
What if APA accreditation is overrated and overpriced?

Oh boy

 

[JustynaJustice]

I just want an answer about the difference between APA and Board of Psychology Accredidation. Then I will leave you wonderful folks alone. I'm fine with just being licensed by the Board of Psychology. I don't need to be top notch. That ship has already sailed for me. I just need to make certain I have a license and can practice in the sunny state of CA. That's all. If I'm not a top Clinician, I can live with that as long as I can be the best version of me and work with what I have, I will be satisfied with that. I just want to help people, and I know I can do that with just being licensed by the Board of Psychology. All things being equal, I'm okay with that. I've come a long way, and I'm proud of myself, regardless of what others might say or think. I was not born with a silver spoon. The reason I have such a low UG GPA is because I was hospitalized at Sharp Mesa Vista Hospital during my time in school. I want to go back there and work there at Sharp, which is the biggest Mental Health Facility in San Diego. I want to help those people and come full circle. People who are suicidal don't care if your degree is APA accredited or Board of Psychology accredited. They just want someone who cares. Now I know Sharp will want someone stellar, but I can only do the best I can do with what I have going.

 

[JustynaJustice]

Your state is the entity that regulates who may be licensed. You must apply for licensure and be approved by the state board. And state boards require that you have graduated from an APA accredited program. You will not get licensed as a psychologist by taking short cuts and going to a shoddy program. And you certainly won't find a job that pays very well in a saturated market like California where there will be tons of people with credentials far superior to yours.

I don't believe that for one second. If you're good at what you do, there's always a way. If you bring something of value to the table, a way will be made. Look at that one African American Ballarina. Everyone told her no...she was too bulky, too muscular for ballet...now she is the quintessential dancer and she used her weaknesses or disadvantages to her good. If you're good, there's always a way. I believe that.

 

[deleted343839]

What if APA accreditation is overrated and overpriced?

I'd say that APA accreditation is a bargain compared to regional accreditation, because the latter is of no practical value.

I just want an answer about the difference between APA and Board of Psychology Accredidation.

APA is the organization that sets national standards for education and practice in psychology, among others things. The state board doesn't provide accreditation. However, most licensing boards recognize completion of an APA-accredited program as the standard of training for people entering the profession. You can become licensed in California without having attended an APA-accredited program, but you cannot get around the requirements for specific coursework, supervised experience, etc. These requirements are listed here: http://www.psychology.ca.gov/applicants/license.shtml

I'm a Christian so I believe in the mind, body and spirit connection. I like their approach.

As others have stated, psychology is not a spiritual practice or worldview. It is not incompatible with religious or spiritual practices, but it is a different field that embraces an empirical approach to understanding human behavior. There are many psychologists who happen to be Christian - some are members of this forum.

People who are suicidal don't care if your degree is APA accredited or Board of Psychology accredited. They just want someone who cares.

If they really just wanted someone who cares, they could call a friend or a suicide prevention hotline. People who seek psychological services generally want more than caring: they want to feel, think, and behave differently. What you do with suicidal people, above and beyond caring, actually does matter.

I don't need to be top notch. That ship has already sailed for me.

I find it troubling that you are so eager to set a low bar for yourself right out of the gate. If that doesn't bother you, though, it may bother you to learn that your low standards are likely to cost you many job opportunities.

Here's the thing. Programs like this can't exactly sell themselves on the basis of their standing within the professional community, so they attract applicants by appealing to their (usually poorly informed) views of the profession, or to applicants' views of themselves as unique, special, ideally suited for the profession, deserving of the opportunity, etc. They are happy to take your money, because their standing in the professional community is not at stake (they have none to begin with), so they have no vested interest in your occupational outcome.

If you're good at what you do, there's always a way.

You won't ever become good at what you do if you are poorly trained. What may happen, though, is that you never realize how poorly you've been trained. After you fail your licensure exam for the fourth or fifth time, after no one will look at your resume, after all the doors you have to knock on remain closed... you will be at a crossroad. Some people, by the time they reach this painful juncture, realize they've been had and own up to all the lies they've been telling themselves. But a disconcerting proportion will maintain, against all evidence to the contrary, that they are wonderful clinicians who deserve to be called Dr. so-and-so, and they'll grasp at whatever means are left to them (e.g., "life coach") to justify that very expensive degree.

TL;DR: Consider alternatives to a doctoral degree in psychology.

 

[JustynaJustice]

I'd say that APA accreditation is a bargain compared to regional accreditation, because the latter is of no practical value.



APA is the organization that sets national standards for education and practice in psychology, among others things. The state board doesn't provide accreditation. However, most licensing boards recognize completion of an APA-accredited program as the standard of training for people entering the profession. You can become licensed in California without having attended an APA-accredited program, but you cannot get around the requirements for specific coursework, supervised experience, etc. These requirements are listed here: http://www.psychology.ca.gov/applicants/license.shtml



As others have stated, psychology is not a spiritual practice or worldview. It is not incompatible with religious or spiritual practices, but it is a different field that embraces an empirical approach to understanding human behavior. There are many psychologists who happen to be Christian - some are members of this forum.



If they really just wanted someone who cares, they could call a friend or a suicide prevention hotline. People who seek psychological services generally want more than caring: they want to feel, think, and behave differently. What you do with suicidal people, above and beyond caring, actually does matter.



I find it troubling that you are so eager to set a low bar for yourself right out of the gate. If that doesn't bother you, though, it may bother you to learn that your low standards are likely to cost you many job opportunities.

Here's the thing. Programs like this can't exactly sell themselves on the basis of their standing within the professional community, so they attract applicants by appealing to their (usually poorly informed) views of the profession, or to applicants' views of themselves as unique, special, ideally suited for the profession, deserving of the opportunity, etc. They are happy to take your money, because their standing in the professional community is not at stake (they have none to begin with), so they have no vested interest in your occupational outcome.



You won't ever become good at what you do if you are poorly trained. What may happen, though, is that you never realize how poorly you've been trained. After you fail your licensure exam for the fourth or fifth time, after no one will look at your resume, after all the doors you have to knock on remain closed... you will be at a crossroad. Some people, by the time they reach this painful juncture, realize they've been had and own up to all the lies they've been telling themselves. But a disconcerting proportion will maintain, against all evidence to the contrary, that they are wonderful clinicians who deserve to be called Dr. so-and-so, and they'll grasp at whatever means are left to them (e.g., "life coach") to justify that very expensive degree.

TL;DR: Consider alternatives to a doctoral degree in psychology.

I don't have a low standard for myself. My GPA is low due to me having a breakdown in the middle of my studies. I learned pretty much everything I needed to learn there. Real life experience.

I can't just go to a state school. They will take one look at my 2.63 and laugh at me. Now have I tried applying at SDSU? No because they plainly state that no one with a GPA below a 3.0 can get accepted. One thing I could do is try to apply and get accepted on a specific condition...such as maintain a 3.0 my first year, something of that nature. I'd love to go to San Diego State University. Their Ph.D Program is APA accredited. I just don't think I stand a chance. If I had low standards, I wouldn't even be here trying when all the odds are against me. Sheesh!

 

[MCParent]

I don't have a low standard for myself. My GPA is low due to me having a breakdown in the middle of my studies. I learned pretty much everything I needed to learn there. Real life experience.

The idea that because you had mental health challenges you are uniquely and specially qualified to provide services makes as much sense as me saying that because I had lasik I am uniquely able to be an optometrist.
As others have said, that is a terrible program that will give you terrible training. If you merely want to do "Christian counseling" or whatever (I've no idea what this is supposed to mean; as an atheist I've used peoples faiths all the time to help them), do what the innumerable quacks do and hang a shingle without using a legally protected name for yourself. Having a fake degree from that school wouldn't be an asset.

 

[JustynaJustice]

Then go to the seminary.

I'm going to ahead and wrap this conversation up, because there's just a little too much negativity going on here. A little too many Debbie Downers and Negative Nancys here.

I did want to thank the person who suggested seminary school. I did not think of this. I thought about it when I wanted to do a Doctorate in Ministry when I was going down that path, but was rejected because I didn't have a theology degree. BUT, I forgot to look at seminary schools for their PsyD Programs. There are only 3 Christian Schools in San Diego that offer PsyD programs. That's the direction I'm going to turn. So even though the above poster's reply was obviously sarcastic, I think he has the right idea. I'm going to cancel my hopes of going to the original school I listed in my opening and go to Southern California Seminary. That's perfect. My decision may seem abrupt, but I've been there before when I had other career goals, but now I'm going to knock on their door for a PsyD Degree. I have tomorrow off from work and plan on visiting them and talking in greater detail. But something clicked tonight. So all your posts were not in vain. Maybe a little negative, but I can take it all with a grain of salt. I'm a tough cookie, don't worry 😉

So yes, since I'm not willing to part with my faith...being a Christian Psychologist seems more in line with my goals than the original school I mentioned. So thank you poster. You clearly were being snarky, but it helped me. I want to be a Christian Psyhologist. Now I understand most of you think that's pseudo science...that's okay. I can live with your opinions. Thank you again to all who replied. I know what I'm going to do now 🙂 Good night.

https://www.socalsem.edu/doctor-of-psychology/

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I have never heard of 'mind body energy psychology.'

I am intrigued.

I am especially intrigued by the borders of this field of study and am having a hard time even conceptualizing any aspect of psychology that would NOT involve mind, body, or energy.

 

[erg923]

I don't have a low standard for myself. My GPA is low due to me having a breakdown in the middle of my studies. I learned pretty much everything I needed to learn there. Real life experience.

This mentality will make you terrible grad student to mentor/supervise. Just awful.

By the way, I am a devout and life long Catholic, and I feel what you are voicing about your approach to this field could certainly be argued to be hubris. Only 6 more to go...

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I think it's important to mention, as others have before me, that being Christian and being a psychologist certainly aren't mutually exclusive. However, we have to take care to remember that when practicing as psychologists, we're functioning as behavioral scientists first and foremost. We must also avoid serving as a spiritual/religious advisor when filling the role of psychologist; that's not our job at that particular time. If our religious beliefs interfere with our ability to practice ethically, that's a problem. If they don't, no problem.

Also, as others have also mentioned, we have to take care not to overgeneralize from personal experiences. Our lives and experiences make us who we are and can certainly inform our work, but psychology is based on social science rather than personal experience. It can be easy, and dangerous, to assume that a patient who's going through similar circumstances to our own (currently or previously) is perceiving it the same way we did.

 

[smalltownpsych]

An APA accredited doctoral program can be spiritually oriented to varying degrees and there are are several in Southern California that meet that criteria. Rosemead-Biola, Pepperdine, Fuller are a few off the top of my head, From what I know, these programs are very clear that they teach scientific principles of psychology first and foremost and some of the comments above about the importance of clear roles being differentiated between spiritual practice and psychological practice are key. Part of psychological practice is often talking to patients about their own spiritual practices and beliefs and I am glad that I received good training on how to navigate those conversations effectively for the benefit of my patients without blurring the lines of my own role as a psychologist. Of the utmost importance in this is that it is not my job to change or educate people on spiritual beliefs whether these are similar or different from my own. Think of how you would like it if you went to a psychologist because you were desperately depressed and they started foisting their beliefs on you which were different from your own.

As far as the school goes, they are going to take your money (or student loan debt that you will struggle to pay off for years) with low likelihood of good employment options. The road to licensure which is necessary to practice is about more than just the degree and very few students who graduate these programs are able to get licensed. I agree with erg in that a theological degree might suit you or you could look at a master's level clinical program, but again you have to beware as there are also schools at that level that will take your money and not provide opportunity to get licensed.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I think it's important to mention, as others have before me, that being Christian and being a psychologist certainly aren't mutually exclusive. However, we have to take care to remember that when practicing as psychologists, we're functioning as behavioral scientists first and foremost. We must also avoid serving as a spiritual/religious advisor when filling the role of psychologist; that's not our job at that particular time. If our religious beliefs interfere with our ability to practice ethically, that's a problem. If they don't, no problem.

Also, as others have also mentioned, we have to take care not to overgeneralize from personal experiences. Our lives and experiences make us who we are and can certainly inform our work, but psychology is based on social science rather than personal experience. It can be easy, and dangerous, to assume that a patient who's going through similar circumstances to our own (currently or previously) is perceiving it the same way we did.

I wish I could print, frame, and mail this to some providers in my city....

 

[Diirez]

I want to be a Christian Psyhologist. Now I understand most of you think that's pseudo science...that's okay. I can live with your opinions. Thank you again to all who replied. I know what I'm going to do now 🙂 Good night.
/

The problem is you do not have to answer to us. You have to answer to the state licensing boards and employers. Clinical Psych is not an easy field (which is why accredited programs require high GPAs) nor should it be. It is also competitive in many states to get a job (ie, California). We are not trying to persuade you against this just because we're negative people, but we want to help keep you form going and spending time (which is something you will never get back) and money to get a useless degree. Just because you can get a PsyD or a PhD does not mean you should nor does it mean you will get a job.

I just think it's going to be incredibly hard for you to get licensed and to get a job, especially in such a hard job market. I also think you will run into many problems along the way because your interests and values are opposite of where the field as a whole is heading. I applaud your passion for helping people, but there are other avenues rather than Clinical.

I have never heard of 'mind body energy psychology.'

I am intrigued.
.

What they mean by mind-body-energy psychology is bioenergetics, from what I understand. Which is the idea that you can release emotions from a person by relieving muscle tension as it will dispel the emotional energy.

I am very critical of entertaining any mind-body-energy psychology.

 

[JustynaJustice]

My friend, an older woman....close to her 50s now, who had four kids very young, went to National University and received some type of license and is practicing now. She earned her Masters Degree. NATIONAL UNIVERSITY FOLKS. How is that possible? She's working. Something doesn't add up here. Now I KNOW National University is NOT APA Accredited. There ARE ways to get licensed and work. She's also in CA. My friend went to school later in life and is making it work now. Folks it's possible. There is not just ONE way. I believe some of you here with the hopes to help me, are being too narrow minded.

Anyway, I already made up my mind. Southern California Seminary it is. I'll be speaking to them in person later today. They have like 8 different scholarships that I saw on their site, some that pay 100% tuition. So I'm sold! I can become a Christian Psychologist AND get 25% to 100% of my tuition paid by the school itself...I'm in. Win-win.

 

[EPPP123]

Just my 2 cents, but it looks like you want to specialize before you have a solid foundation. That's putting the cart before the horse.

The honest reality is that if you do not attend an APA accredited program and do an APA/APPIC accredited internship, you will be potentially limiting yourself quite a bit. I would suggest that rather than asking us, you ask your state licensing board; on applications for state licensure they generally ask if you attended an APA accredited program. If yes, you go on to the next spot on the form, if no, you have to provide lots of information about the courses you took, training experiences, etc. and they will look at this to determine if your training meets the requirements for licensure. Why don't you call the California Board of Psychology and ask them about this program and if it would qualify you for licensure. That will be your answer. It's silly to debate the merits of one program vs. another with us. If you want to be a licensed psychologist, ask the licensing board if these programs (even if WASC accredited) would meet their criteria.

With respect to your faith, I'm not clear where attending a traditional APA-accredited program would be a conflict with your faith (the classes do not preach a dogma inconsistent with religion). You can always supplement your training with courses more religiously/spiritually oriented and create that niche for yourself, but if that is the bulk of your training you will likely struggle with licensure/insurance reimbursement and be unable to work easily as a "psychologist" in that realm.

I am fully trained from an APA-accredited PhD. program. I also have life experiences, training, and personal orientations relative to things like homeopathy, herbalism, energy work (reiki), and disease models for mental health diagnoses (e.g. lyme, PANDAS/PANS, etc as they relate to anxiety/OCD, etc). This experience may someday influence some of my psychology work, but if that was the focus of the majority of my training, I wouldn't likely be a psychologist, I'd be in more of a complementary medicine field. That's not illegitimate, but it is different.

 

[erg923]

My friend, an older woman....close to her 50s now, who had four kids very young, went to National University and received some type of license and is practicing now. She earned her Masters Degree NATIONAL UNIVERSITY FOLKS. How is that possible? She's working. Something doesn't add up here. Now I KNOW National University is NOT APA Accredited. There ARE ways to get licensed and work. She's also in CA. My friend went to school later in life and is making it work now. Folks it's possible. There is not just ONE way. I believe some of you here with the hopes to help me, are being too narrow minded.

Anyway, I already made up my mind. Southern California Seminary it is. I'll be speaking to them in person later today. They have like 8 different scholarships that I saw on their site, some that pay 100% tuition. So I'm sold! I can become a Christian Psychologist AND get 25% to 100% of my tuition paid by the school itself...I'm in. Win-win.

It means she got a masters, not a doctorate (or got a doctorate and then got licensed at the masters level). And, none of this means your friend is actually well trained, right?

What is a "Christian psychologist?"

 

[AcronymAllergy]

My friend, an older woman....close to her 50s now, who had four kids very young, went to National University and received some type of license and is practicing now. She earned her Masters Degree. NATIONAL UNIVERSITY FOLKS. How is that possible? She's working. Something doesn't add up here. Now I KNOW National University is NOT APA Accredited. There ARE ways to get licensed and work. She's also in CA. My friend went to school later in life and is making it work now. Folks it's possible. There is not just ONE way. I believe some of you here with the hopes to help me, are being too narrow minded.

Anyway, I already made up my mind. Southern California Seminary it is. I'll be speaking to them in person later today. They have like 8 different scholarships that I saw on their site, some that pay 100% tuition. So I'm sold! I can become a Christian Psychologist AND get 25% to 100% of my tuition paid by the school itself...I'm in. Win-win.

Quick answer: APA doesn't accredit masters programs, only doctoral programs. Master's-level licenses also of course have different standards and requirements than doctoral-level licenses.

It's possible to get licensed at the doctoral level without having attended an APA-accredited program, depending on state laws, but it typically requires significantly more paperwork on your end. Things like syllabi and perhaps even course notes and slides, documentation of hours and types of clinical experiences and supervision (perhaps with signing off by your director of clinical training), etc. APA accreditation is in place to ensure a minimum level of training and, by extension, competence. Without that accreditation, you have to essentially prove to the licensing board that your program instilled an equivalent level of training and competence.

APA accreditation is also in place to protect students, so that they know a certain program is adhering to a certain minimum standard in terms of the classes offered, clinical opportunities and supervision provided, resources and supports available, due process for remediation of disciplinary actions, etc.

 

[JustynaJustice]

I actually did send a $4 money order to the Board of Psychology in CA for them to send me a hard copy of their latest laws and regulations. So I am being proactive and trying to get answers from the source. I just came on here to see if anyone knew things that I don't etc.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I actually did send a $4 money order to the Board of Psychology in CA for them to send me a hard copy of their latest laws and regulations. So I am being proactive and trying to get answers from the source. I just came on here to see if anyone knew things that I don't etc.

http://www.psychology.ca.gov/laws_regs/2016lawsregs.pdf Just in case another student didn't want to spend the $4
For the OP, since you are probably not going to be a licensed psychologist, that information will not be of any use to you. This is the board that regulates midlevel therapists in California. http://www.bbs.ca.gov/

 

[singasongofjoy]

I don't know if you are still following this thread or not, but I hope you take into consideration the following points: 1) think carefully about what you want to do. Are you wanting to help individuals address personal issues strictly through a more spiritual/religious framework? If so, the most expedient path that is most likely to get you hired would probably be to go through a seminary of some sort where you can get a masters in spiritual counseling. That would not mean you would be licensed as a psychologist but you could work at a religiously-affiliated place perhaps where folks go there expecting to address things from that framework. 2) if you are definitely wanting to work as a psychologist (make sure you have done your homework and know what all that entails- it is a lot more than therapy) then taking the longer route (e.g., getting a masters first to bring up your GPA and prove you can handle graduate level work) is going to be essential if you are going to get into a school that will enable you a reasonable chance of getting hired after you graduate. 3) if you choose to go that route you simply must go to an APA accredited program. You need to be able to get licensed and be able to bill insurance in order to work practically anywhere as a psychologist. The folks above were not trying to dash your dreams by saying so; they are just being realistic. We all know folks or know of folks who have gone to programs without good reputations who end up thousands of dollars in debt and not- or poorly-employed after graduation. It's not worth it. This point cannot be overstated. Think of your future financial stability. Maybe you should consider alternate avenues to enable you to do the type of wrok that you want to do. You may not even enjoy an accredited psych doctoral program if you don't like research and writing. 4) Depending on what you want to do maybe you should consider various masters programs. In fact, given your GPA, I think this is the best option anyway. If you're truly believing that where there is a will there is a way, then consider that most people who have overcome huge obstacles have had to take a longer way around them. That might mean getting a masters degree first to help you figure out more specifically what you want to do and put you in a better position to get there. That's actually a pretty common path, particularly for people who didn't have stellar undergrad experiences for whatever reason. 5) don't let a program that has poor outcome data (poor employment and licensure statistics for their graduates) take advantage of you. Stand up for yourself and your dreams by making an informed decision, even if that decision requires you to take a more roundabout (but more financially and future-empolyability-sound) path to get there (e.g., working in a related field for a few years or getting a master's degree first).

 

[Diirez]

I actually did send a $4 money order to the Board of Psychology in CA for them to send me a hard copy of their latest laws and regulations. So I am being proactive and trying to get answers from the source. I just came on here to see if anyone knew things that I don't etc.

You did get that from us. Which is that APA accreditation is something almost needed and going to lower grade schools will lead to less likely of an outcome of career and jobs.

You might be better off with a Masters level licensing rather than going for the top clinical. Clinical, as I have stated before, is not something to take lightly. It is a genuine healthcare field that needs to rely on scientific evidence and knowledge. Which is why going into schools like the one you mentioned and the Seminary school will offer very limited career potential. It will be very hard to sell a degree from a seminary school, and even harder to get referrals to send patients to you.

Going into this career is different than masters level fields and your ballet analogy. Simply because there are strict requirements because you will become a healthcare provider. That is why PhD programs require so much of students because health is something that needs to be regulated. This is also why PsyD programs and diploma mill PhD programs are so eager to take your money, they thrive off of people who have low GPAs and research experience and they try to convince you that you can make this all come true and you can get what you want if you just shell out 100k to them.

 

[deleted343839]

I can't just go to a state school. They will take one look at my 2.63 and laugh at me. Now have I tried applying at SDSU? No because they plainly state that no one with a GPA below a 3.0 can get accepted. One thing I could do is try to apply and get accepted on a specific condition...such as maintain a 3.0 my first year, something of that nature. I'd love to go to San Diego State University. Their Ph.D Program is APA accredited. I just don't think I stand a chance. If I had low standards, I wouldn't even be here trying when all the odds are against me. Sheesh!

Your assessment is correct. But you have to distinguish between "can't right now" and "can't ever." You would have to improve your academic record first to demonstrate that you are capable of handling the rigor of an APA-accredited program. In your case, obtaining a research-oriented master's degree would probably be a good stepping stone. But that's only assuming it is worth the effort for you. There is no shame whatsoever in saying "no thanks" to all that.

If you are unwilling to start that long journey to a Ph.D. -- and that is a legitimate, understandable position -- then another possible option is to enter another profession with a lower bar for entry. Counseling and social work are good options that would enable you to provide psychotherapy. However, that does not negate all of the advice you've been getting here: that you should choose a program that is accredited by the appropriate national professional organization and that has a good record of graduating trainees who go on to become licensed and hold jobs in the profession. Look for the overall trends, not the exceptions to the general rule.

I don't have a low standard for myself. My GPA is low due to me having a breakdown in the middle of my studies. I learned pretty much everything I needed to learn there. Real life experience.

I am sympathetic to mental health-related problems. The last of my big, bad episodes of depression occurred during graduate school and I got help for it once it became clear that my performance was suffering. Today I'm lucky to be a member of the "long term remission" club. Raising the bar for myself and learning to question my own B.S. were critical to my recovery.

I can also tell you that as a practitioner my real-life experience of depression has not helped me help others all that much. At times I might have a bit of insight that someone else might lack, but the treatment I provide is based on my knowledge of the fundamentals of therapy and the skills I've developed through supervised experience. Peer support is often helpful for people with mental disorders, but it's not therapy. So I would advise you to back away from that dangerous ideological cliff you seem to be on, get some perspective, and embrace your humility. You may actually find it more liberating than the defensive, paper-thin front you're putting on here.

 

[bmedclinic]

gosh @MamaPhD i just love your replies in this thread.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

deleted

 

[DynamicDidactic]

@JustynaJustice
people on this forum are actually trying very hard to help you not make a very poor life decision. CIHS is considered by many as one of the worst places to go for professional graduate training in psychology. This doesn't mean there aren't some success stories from CIHS but, on average, there are many more bad endings (trust us, we have seen them on this forum).

Simply put, with CIHS you put yourself in a position where you accrue a lot of debt and potentially get a degree that will not be license eligible (if you finish your degree). Even if you finish the school and manage to get licensure at the doctoral level in California you will still face many more hurdles. Your degree would not be very marketable, you will be excluded from working for any VA and almost any credible medical institution, and you will have difficulty getting hired by a reputable organization.

Your goal seems to be to use your faith along with therapy/counseling. There are many routes to doing that are much safer and quicker than CIHS. I highly recommend considering getting a masters level degree that concentrates on faith and psychology. Take this thread as a giant red flag about CIHS.

 

[bmedclinic]

@JustynaJustice
people on this forum are actually trying very hard to help you not make a very poor life decision.

I think this is absolutely true. Some of the responses seem more rude becuase this is the main question asked ad nauseum on this forum. " How can I get to be, like a psychologist despite it looking so daunting" and everyone wants a shortcut. The shortcuts honestly suck.

@JustynaJustice
Your degree would not be very marketable, you will be excluded from working for any VA and almost any credible medical institution, and you will have difficulty getting hired by a reputable organization.

I've now been in private practice for a mere 4 months. I'm here to say I'm blown away by how much this stuff actually matters. I honestly didnt consider this before, but patients read my bio on the web and come in knowing where I did my undergrad, ma, phd, etc. Patient told me last week that one of the reasons she chose me is because where I did my masters and she is from that region so she thought I'd understand her a little better + she knows its a good school. If you dont have that, that's a potential patient you're missing out on without even knowing it.