University of Michigan question

[BilboBaggins]

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So I just noticed as I was reading the fine print of the University of Michigan house officer (resident) selection criteria that they take feedback on applicants from the residents who attend the dinner they have after the interview.

Most of the dinners that I've attended have been advertised as informal and 'don't count' towards the rank process. Just curious if Michigan is truly different (i.e. the dinner is akin to another interview), or if they just say that so that they're within their rights to not rank people who, say, turn into drunken idiots at the social gathering.

Just curious. Anyone know? Anyone have any info on this in terms of other Anesthesia programs? I've got a couple of interviews left and haven't really been making it a huge priority to attend the dinners. (Though I did attend Michigan's, and was NOT a drunken idiot.)

Thanks in advance.
-Bilbo

 

[Gimlet]

So I just noticed as I was reading the fine print of the University of Michigan house officer (resident) selection criteria that they take feedback on applicants from the residents who attend the dinner they have after the interview.

Most of the dinners that I've attended have been advertised as informal and 'don't count' towards the rank process. Just curious if Michigan is truly different (i.e. the dinner is akin to another interview), or if they just say that so that they're within their rights to not rank people who, say, turn into drunken idiots at the social gathering.

Just curious. Anyone know? Anyone have any info on this in terms of other Anesthesia programs? I've got a couple of

There were so many people at the UMich dinner when I went (30+ applicants and just as many residents/family members) that I can't believe they would have been able to give any insightful feedback on the applicants. I'd suspect it's more along the lines of reserving the right to judge people for being drunken bufoons.

Whether the pre-interview dinner counts or not, I think it's a good idea to go to it. It shows that you're serious about getting to know the program. I've definitely noticed a somewhat miffed attitude from a couple of program coordinators when they found out somebody missed dinner (usually through no fault of their own, however).

 

[fakin' the funk]

Whether the pre-interview dinner counts or not, I think it's a good idea to go to it. It shows that you're serious about getting to know the program. I've definitely noticed a somewhat miffed attitude from a couple of program coordinators when they found out somebody missed dinner (usually through no fault of their own, however).

Seriously, they do get miffed! The PDs also. I can understand where they're coming from: they put time and money into the dinner and it's good for the applicants to get to know the residents. But, alotta the time the dinner is kind of a wash and I think it says a lot if you're on the redeye just to get to the interview anyway.

 

[DrN2O]

Don't be naive. Programs will listen to their residents if there were red flags at the dinner regardless they explicitly admit it on paper or not. Just because Michigan is up front about it doesn't mean you could act like an idiot at another program's dinner. If you can't survive a couple of hours at a sports bar with free beers and unlimited wings without embarrassing yourself, you are in trouble. Go with your gut, if you interviewed at Michigan, you should know by now how nice everyone is and they just want you to be yourself.

 

[bigdan]

There's an article or abstract published from the residency selection group at University of Pittsburgh, and they listed the resident input as part of the selection criteria that they use as well.

I'm not remotely surprised; and I don't think any of us should be. This is the "does (s)he play well with others?" part of our interview.

dc

 

[New2Midwest]

I agree about attending the dinners. As a prior chief resident who was involved in the rank meetings/interview process, applicants should go to the dinners. PD's do find out about this kind of stuff. In fact, at a lot of interviews, this is the initial banter with the chair or PD ("So, how was the dinner last night?...Oh, you didn't go"). If you miss it because of a legit reason (ie travel/weather related), then that's okay. All I'm saying is don't look past the dinner-plus, when the residents get a little wine in them, you just may get the true situation about the program you are interested in...

 

[BilboBaggins]

Thanks for the response, all. That's about what I figured, and just wanted to check.

 

[Green912]

The UMich post-interview is indeed informal and residents are definitely NOT asked to watch candidates or provide feedback. That being said, getting fall down drunk and letting you freak hang out will probably get some talk.

 

[smgilles]

The UMich post-interview is indeed informal and residents are definitely NOT asked to watch candidates or provide feedback. That being said, getting fall down drunk and letting you freak hang out will probably get some talk.

How's life treating you Green? Things are good at the 'Mother' and looking forward to CA-2 year.

 

[Frank Rizzo]

The dinners with the residents are more important than some people realize. All applicants should consider it to be part of the interview... just because you're not dressed in a suit and talking to an attending doesn't mean it isn't as important.

With that being said, I agree with some of the earlier posts that this is really more aimed at a 'do they play well with others' discovery mission. Be yourself, and assuming you're not an arrogant prick or socially inept, you'll be fine.

 

[coprolalia]

The dinners with the residents are more important than some people realize. All applicants should consider it to be part of the interview... just because you're not dressed in a suit and talking to an attending doesn't mean it isn't as important.

With that being said, I agree with some of the earlier posts that this is really more aimed at a 'do they play well with others' discovery mission. Be yourself, and assuming you're not an arrogant prick or socially inept, you'll be fine.

I dunno. We had a couple of those last year who met both criteria, and somehow they still managed to sneak into our program.

-copro

 

[Muadib]

The dinners with the residents are more important than some people realize. All applicants should consider it to be part of the interview... just because you're not dressed in a suit and talking to an attending doesn't mean it isn't as important.

With that being said, I agree with some of the earlier posts that this is really more aimed at a 'do they play well with others' discovery mission. Be yourself, and assuming you're not an arrogant prick or socially inept, you'll be fine.

Rizzo is right. those dinners are not a "something for nothing" scenario. you're sizing up the residents and the residency and at he same time the residents are sizing you up. one of my friends at another program is a chief and was saying that they're encouraged to let the pd and chair know who the residents liked at the dinner and who came off as a tool. it def factors in to the process.

 

[Frank Rizzo]

I dunno. We had a couple of those last year who met both criteria, and somehow they still managed to sneak into our program.

-copro

Sometimes people are blinded by board scores! I'd be lying if I said it doesn't happen where I'm at! T-5 months.

 

[Green912]

How's life treating you Green? Things are good at the 'Mother' and looking forward to CA-2 year.

The year's going well. I'm in the SICU this month so it's full on survival mode. Are you heading to the MARC this year?

 

[smgilles]

The year's going well. I'm in the SICU this month so it's full on survival mode. Are you heading to the MARC this year?

Yes, I will be there. I need to get my research done so I can submit my abstract by the deadline. How about yourself? I am on inpatient pain service this month.

 

[Mista Suprane]

The year's going well. I'm in the SICU this month so it's full on survival mode.

/threadjack

so we all meet again. poopCOM class of '07.

i am on SICU as well, and also in survivial mode. 4 weeks, q3 call, 4 calls left. i feel your pain, green. i have 2 weeks of vaca right after, can't come soon enough. i never thought i'd say this, but i can't WAIT to go back to cranis, back whacks, and kidney transplants. smgilles, you still gonna do a CCM fellowship? what you thinking about green?

overall though, i'll be honest, this year is pretty cush, 50hr, weeks except SICU. how about you guys?

you guys been noticing DOs on the interview trail? a few fellow poopCOMers interviewed here, one poopFLECOMer did a 4 week rotation...

 

[smgilles]

/threadjack

so we all meet again. poopCOM class of '07.

i am on SICU as well, and also in survivial mode. 4 weeks, q3 call, 4 calls left. i feel your pain, green. i have 2 weeks of vaca right after, can't come soon enough. i never thought i'd say this, but i can't WAIT to go back to cranis, back whacks, and kidney transplants. smgilles, you still gonna do a CCM fellowship? what you thinking about green?

overall though, i'll be honest, this year is pretty cush, 50hr, weeks except SICU. how about you guys?

you guys been noticing DOs on the interview trail? a few fellow poopCOMers interviewed here, one poopFLECOMer did a 4 week rotation...

Have not seen any DO's interviewing, but I am sure there were some here. One was rotating through the OR's. My hours have been the same 45 - 60 depending on the rotating. Usually on call 3 x's per month, but CA-1 here is notoriously cush. Haven't seen any LECOM'ers.

 

[bobg504]

Have not seen any DO's interviewing, but I am sure there were some here. One was rotating through the OR's. My hours have been the same 45 - 60 depending on the rotating. Usually on call 3 x's per month, but CA-1 here is notoriously cush. Haven't seen any LECOM'ers.

Hey smgilles! Im a proud DO and interviewed at Mayo-Rochester. Im certain you are glad that intern year is over! I remember seeing you around last year and you did look a little tired. What are your thoughts on the Intern year at Mayo? Im trying to decide whether to rank adviance or categorical first. Ive heard mixed reviews from current and past Mayo residents. Thoughts?

 

[smgilles]

Hey smgilles! Im a proud DO and interviewed at Mayo-Rochester. Im certain you are glad that intern year is over! I remember seeing you around last year and you did look a little tired. What are your thoughts on the Intern year at Mayo? Im trying to decide whether to rank adviance or categorical first. Ive heard mixed reviews from current and past Mayo residents. Thoughts?

I will shoot you a PM when I get a second 👍