University of Pittsburgh

[darkmatter]

Does anyone have info on their program in terms of reputation and other factors? I have an interview there later in January. I heard the program ranked well in US News, but I've also heard from others that there's a large portion of FMGs (I don't understand why this is seen as a negative) and fellowship placement isn't as impressive as it's reputation?

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[maddog75]

I visited Pitt in December and like you I had heard that this program was underrated and a hidden gem so to speak. I had also heard that there were a good number of FMGs. I got a good feeling of Pittsburgh the last time I was there so I was rather optimistic about my visit. (I say all of this because my following experience was very negative and I don't want to give the impression that I am here to slam this program like I have seen others do to other programs).

In regards to fellowships, >75% of the residents on the matchlist they gave us stay at Pitt. In particular, I believe that Heme-Onc was overly represented in the group. The entire day, they spent hours (literally 3 powerpoint presentations) going over and over the fact that Pittsburgh is a great city. I already thought it was a fair city but I suppose in an effort to attract those thinking of NY, Boston, and the west coast, they emphasize this endlessly. In regards to FMGs, I can't completely comment on an exact number. The interview group on my day however had no FMGs which I think is a good sign (many of the programs I've interviewed with 10-20% FMGs had interview groups that were 50% FMG). Lastly, an event occurred at the lunch conference in which one resident very rudely attacked the presenting resident throughout his presentation (both out loud and not so quietly to the girl sitting next to her). It was a very poor show. I'm sure it is not representative of the program, but it did unfortunately happen. The poor resident who presented looked humiliated by the end of the hour. Others should share their Pitt thoughts. Hopefully their interview days were not as bad as mine. I had intended to rank the program (albeit not in my top 3) before my visit. Now, I have no intention.

 

[darkmatter]

thanks maddog. anyone else has any other thoughts? im just wondering whether its worth even going there then.

 

[darkmatter]

thanks maddog. anyone else has any other thoughts? im just wondering whether its worth even going there then.

 

[jazz79]

hello,

well, it's unfortunate that you had to see such an unprofessional show by one of the residents, and I can understand how that would leave a bad taste in one's mouth, but i must say that coming from pitt, that is simply not the norm. in fact, the residents and faculty here are extremely friendly and supportive (of course there are a few 'bad apples' in every bunch).

the program has a separate international scholars program, so there are about 5 FMGs per year, but these are top notch foreign grads, many of whom are interested in research, and do not weight the program down.

pittsburgh is pittsburgh and not NY or LA or Chicago, and if being in a major metropolitan city is important for you, then this would not be the place, but i can tell you that most anything that you would want to do in a city is here, it is just on a slightly smaller scale than in the big cities. but of course there are numerous plusses to pittsburgh, like cost of living.

finally, it is true that a big part of the grads stay here for fellowship, but you will see that at any school, and a lot of grads end up having personal ties to pittsburgh by the time they finish and decide they want to stay. also, if you look at our subspecialty departments, you will find that most of them are in the top 10-20 in the nation, so there is a strong reason to stay.

hope this helps a bit.

 

[Adcadet]

Can anybody comment on the critical care experience of the IM residents at Pitt? I've heard that the the critical care fellowships (IM, anes, surg, etc) at Pitt are superb, and I'm wondering if it trickles down to residents as well.

 

[MS-4 on hiatus]

I've completed a MICU rotation at UPMC and it was the best rotation I have ever done. The teaching is superb and the patients have very interesting pathology. Residents, depending on how proactive they are, can do as many procedures as they want (ABG, LP, etc.). The team structure is one resident, one intern, and one MS-4. Call is q-4, but you get every q4d off. I think the ICU schedule is the sweetest one I've seen so far compared to other programs. The ICU runs very smoothly because the radiology tech comes in every AM to take CXR. Ancillary staff is awesome, and the nurses only carry two patients each. I think the one drawback of being a resident on the MICU is that most of the codes are run by Pulm/CC fellows. However, the resident pretty much decides what the daily plan for the patient will be. The fellows and attendings provide guidance. Also, the MICU rotation is great because there is a pharamacist that rounds with you almost every morning. They provide great teaching and also make wonderful recommendations on antibiotics, etc.

In terms of how I feel about the Pitt program in general, I think it is fair. I feel that it is largely fellow-run (fellow writes recommendations in chart, and resident follows), and that the quality of the residents is more variable than a lot of the programs that I have interviewed at. There are a lot of FMG's but the FMG's are great because they actually know a LOT and work hard. (Remember: A lot of the FMG's were attendings before starting residency). I would say that Pitt got a lot of bad press in the past because residents were unhappy, but I think the overall attitude of the residents is getting better. The current intern class seems like a fun, cool bunch. I definitely think Pitt is on its upswing. The fellowships are awesome, especially for pulm/cc, gi, and cards.

 

[jazz79]

I just want to make one point regarding the statement made in the previous post of pitt's program being "largely fellow-run (fellow writes recommendations in chart, and resident follows)." (BTW, I completely agree with the previous post regarding the MICU/ICU experience at pitt).

Whether or not something is fellow-run, is largerly determined by the resident or team that is consulting the fellow. If you as a resident want to take on the issue or make the decisions, then you will have no deterents from doing so here at Pitt.

If you think about it, every single major academic center is a major academic center precisely because of the large and excellent quality of its fellows. What do you expect those fellows to do? They have to be out there being doctors, consulting and giving out advice to the various services. If not, then why would a good fellow want to come to a program? Thus, I feel, you can have a 'fellows run' hospital at every major hospital, if you and your team lets it be that way. In the end it is up to you. And BTW, the strong fellows is a plus, because they are wonderful teachers when you need them.

 

[darkmatter]

I always hear FMGs being thrown around when t comes to U of Pitt, but I didn't realize that there was an international scholars program there, thanks for sharing that information. Also I noticed that in the US News Rankings (I know... where else can you find rankings anyway), Pitt made it to 22 for 2005, and not 2004... was there a big change that occured recently that made it stronger that I am not aware of? Please let me know, I am considering ranking Pitt highly. If anyone is looking for the US Newa rank list, its somewhere in this forum.

 

[MS-4 on hiatus]

I always hear FMGs being thrown around when t comes to U of Pitt, but I didn't realize that there was an international scholars program there, thanks for sharing that information. Also I noticed that in the US News Rankings (I know... where else can you find rankings anyway), Pitt made it to 22 for 2005, and not 2004... was there a big change that occured recently that made it stronger that I am not aware of? Please let me know, I am considering ranking Pitt highly. If anyone is looking for the US Newa rank list, its somewhere in this forum.

Is this a ranking for medical school, the hospital, or a certain subspecialty? If it is referring to the first two, I think Pitt performed better in 2005 because of increased NIH funding. I believe the US News ranking for hospitals also takes into account reputation of different subspecialties, and Pitt generally has a good rep in fields such as ophtho, ENT, rheum, etc.

 

[darkmatter]

for the IM program, not the medical school or hospital.

Is this a ranking for medical school, the hospital, or a certain subspecialty? If it is referring to the first two, I think Pitt performed better in 2005 because of increased NIH funding. I believe the US News ranking for hospitals also takes into account reputation of different subspecialties, and Pitt generally has a good rep in fields such as ophtho, ENT, rheum, etc.

 

[jazz79]

o.k., so here is the deal with pitt's IM program over the last 5 years lets say.

UPMC has been buying up hospitals left and right in the tri-state area. one of the hospitals it bought was st. francis and shadyside, both of which had its own residency programs consisting of very different quality of residents than normally seen at pitt. because of the merger, pitt's IM had to integrate those residents into our system. that caused problems on a few levels, including, how pitt's own med students percieved the residents and how others did. this had a lot to do with not too many pitt students staying at pitt for IM, this in turn spread around and led to negative feelings.

at this point this is all over. all of the old residents are gone and the ones here are great and getting better with every class. the interns this year are very good based on numerous sources/people. also, more pitt med students are staying here, especially this upcoming year (from the rumor mill here at school).

also, the upmc health system is one of the best if not the best in the country in terms of making money, and this is starting to trickle down to the departments, including hiring many new faculty(just take a look at the number of faculty in the gen im section) who bring research money, pushing pitt even further up the nih money ladder, which has a good part to do with the rankings. talking with everyone here, it is expected that there will be a tremendous upswing in the im department/residency in the next few years.

also, in case anyone is worried about this, there is going to be a new chief of medicne announced very very soon (like within a few weeks) to replace the interim chief which i think will make things even better (stay tuned).

as for the hospital/medical school, both have been consistently rising in the ranking over the last 5 years and i expect will continue to do so due to the mentality here coming from the top.

ok, thats enough writing for me for now, and once again, i hope you all come here to take a look.

 

[darkmatter]

thanks, thats great, i'd definitely come and take a look. i have no doubt about the prestige both the hospital and the medical school carries but i wasn't sure about the internal medicine program itself.

 

[benfolds21]

i have gotten word that a new chair has been announced. supposedly it is the current chief of pulmonary and critical care at brigham. should be great for the program.

 

[jazz79]

i have gotten word that a new chair has been announced. supposedly it is the current chief of pulmonary and critical care at brigham. should be great for the program.

That is absolutely correct! Dr. Steven Shapiro, from B&W is the new chief of medicine at Pitt. We already have an extremely strong Pulm/CCM department, and with this change, it should really soar. Also, he at one point, was an assistant residency program director at Barnes-Jewish Hospital, so he will be into the residency program in general, which is also a plus. I'm excited.

 

[Adcadet]

From B&W's website

Steve D. Shapiro, M.D.
Chief, Division of Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine
Parker B. Francis Professor of Medicine, Harvard Medical School
[email protected]

Dr. Shapiro, received his medical degree from the Pritzker School of Medicine at the University of Chicago in 1983. After completing his internal medicine training at Barnes-Jewish Hospital, and fellowship training in the Respiratory and Critical Care Division, he served as chief resident and assistant program director in the Department of Internal Medicine. He later served the Pulmonary Division as Professor of Medicine, Pediatrics, and Cell Biology before joining the faculty of Brigham and Women’s Hospital in 2000 as the Parker B. Francis Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School and Chief of the Pulmonary and Critical Care Division at the Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.

Utilizing sophisticated genetically altered animal models, Dr. Shapiro’s research efforts focus on elucidating the biological and pathological roles of proteinases including neutrophil elastase, in causing lung destruction in emphysema. He is also pursuing projects which may result in the identification of medical and surgical interventions to alter disease processes in patients with COPD and related conditions.

During his career Dr. Shapiro has been honored with a number of prestigious awards including the American Lung Association's Edward Livingston Trudeau Scholar Award each year from 1990 to 1993 and a Career Investigator Award each year from 1994 to 1997. He currently serves as Editor of the Journal of Respiratory Cell and Molecular Biology and on the editorial boards of the American Journal of Physiology and the Biochemical Journal.

 

[darkmatter]

That's awesome, now I'm really looking forward to interviewing there.

 

[darkmatter]

One more question about Pitt, I was wondering if someone could elaborate about the fellowship placement there, for program of its size, there's not that many who go into fellowships and fewer into competitive fellowships, i.e. cards, gi? is this not the complete list, or do many do something else?

 

[deleted4401]

If you are interviewing here, you should be able to get the list from Kim Luketic in the office. Here is the website:
http://residency.dom.pitt.edu/trainingsites.html

It's a good program,
Simul

One more question about Pitt, I was wondering if someone could elaborate about the fellowship placement there, for program of its size, there's not that many who go into fellowships and fewer into competitive fellowships, i.e. cards, gi? is this not the complete list, or do many do something else?

 

[koonafa]

actually, to be honest, i'm not all that impressed. For a place that has such a great reputation as Pitt, and with all these excellent ranking in multiple fields, I was expecting their fellowship placements to be a bit better. Just looking at the more classically competitive fellowships, ie cards and GI (and more specifically GI b/c of my interest), I feel they either stayed at Pitt, or went to some other local programs, for the most part. Further, w/ such a strong GI department, i would have expected a larger number to have matched in GI (although it very well could be that not many residents in the recent classes really wanted to go into GI).

could someone help explain this to me...i feel i have definitely interviewed at programs with lesser names, yet their residents seem to do at least as well, if not better, in matching into GI. Why is this? Is it that maybe the GI department or other departments don't really "Go to bat" for you when it's times to make the calls, write the letters, etc??

Thanks everyone...i was thinking of ranking this program pretty high, but i think i have some reservations. Can away help explain them?

 

[jazz79]

To answer a few of the last posts, the best that I can:

First, if you look at the graduates and what they end up doing, you see something very different than at most other top programs. And that is, that a good number of them go into general medicine. That is partly because of the strength of the general medicine department here, and partly because of the type of people who have come here. So that immediately, cuts down the number of people going into sub-specialties.

Second, if you then look at what specialties people are going into, you will see a good number going into the non-cards/gi. Plenty of Pulm/CCM, Heme/Onc, Rheum and Endo. What does that mean? I take it to mean that those people didn't want to do cards/gi. (Of course you can always argue that the reason they didn't want to do cards/gi is because they felt they couldn't, but I doubt that you would go through college, med school, residency, only to tell yourself you can't get into a subspecialty of your choice instead of going for it).

The above two points combined leave 'fewer' people to go into gi/cards. (And fewer people going into gi/cards does not mean a program is worse). Having said that, I know for a fact that some of the people you are looking at who matched GI here at Pitt had offeres from other top places and chose to stay here, again for various reasons.

People do and will go to bat for you here. There is no reason not to, since it always looks good for the program to send their residents where they will be happy.

Peace.

 

[deleted4401]

I see your point about the list, but there is this self-selecting behavior that happens here. Pittsburgh is not NYC/Chicago, so people who end up matching here, typically because they have reasons to be in Pittsburgh or the surrounding area. So, after 3 years of residency in this city, if they can get Pitt or AGH for GI, they are more than happy about it. Also, Pulm/CC is so big here. I didn't know anybody doing that fellowship where I want to med school. And, for whatever reason, a ton of people now want to do Heme-Onc. Five of the rising first year fellows are from Pitt.

As far as this year's seniors starting GI, I knew one is going to Loyola, one is going to Pitt, one fast-tracked into UNC (got offers from UCLA and B&W), and another is going to Wake. So, that's a little bit more distributed, regionally.

It's very hard to judge a fellowship list without knowing the people behind it. There has been enough meetings with the subspecialty program directors to help you get you going. Every intern can get scheduled for research in a subspecialty. If someone wants to go somewhere, people seem to be going to bat for them. I'm not even staying in medicine, and my PD here made a phone call to a rad-onc program.

I'm not saying it's the best program in the world, but people seem to be getting to where they want to go, and I think that's the important thing.

-S

 

[medgator]

I definitely think with the caliber of faculty and facilities at pitt, it would definitely be a competitive place to match at for IM if it were in any other city. The atmosphere here is great and everyone is really down to earth. Regarding fellowship placement, I agree with SimulD. You need to look at the people behind the numbers. Our cards placement rate last year was ~50% which from what I've heard nationally, isn't that far off. In terms of sheer availability of research and supportive faculty, UPMC can't be beat. It's well recognized in almost every major discipline in medicine and is a research powerhouse nationally.

 

[DrRobert]

As stated earlier, fellowship placement can be an important factor when choosing programs, but analyzing these lists is complicated.

Prospective medical students like to see a medical school's match list and see how many matched into Derm, etc. in order to gauge the quality of the school. However, the match list does not reveal how many students applied to Derm that year. Hypothetically, JHU might only match one student into Derm this year - but that number means two very different things if one student applied vs. ten.

Picking IM residencies is very similar. The fact that a program only matched two into GI doesn't tell the whole story. What if only two applied?

What about the program that matched 10 into GI but had 25 apply?

Ideally, each program would provide a list of how many residents applied to AND matched into each fellowship.

 

[adagio]

Just to comment on the IMG portion of UPMC:

There are 5-6 each year, and they put them in a separate track and have them do a very similar curriculum of that of Shadyside program (which is a community program in one of the UPMC teaching hospitals).

Those IMGs are not part of the categorical program, in fact, residents of the categorical program seem not to like them. Even interview process for IMGs is different: they don't get invited for a pre-interview dinner with the residents, unlike AMGs, and they dont get any interaction with (categorical) residents during the day (other than the chief resident that does the hospital tour).

UPMC presby. is an amazing hospital, and the program is very big on teaching, in fact some people described it as the perfect program (Pitt is a great city, no comparison to cleveland or rochester for example).

However, if you are an IMG, think twice before going there: It was noticed that residents and most staff really hate them. I couldnt understand the reason behind this comment, and I have got it from many trusted people.

When you want to recruit IMGs who are really the creme de la creme (or at least supposed to be), the least you want to do is to integrate them with your regular program, and not ascribe some tag to them. Many of the people that I know (really smart people, many with nature publications and so forth) opted to go to a lesser known university just because they wanted to be treated equally.

In a nutshell, if you are an AMG, this program IS the place to be! if you are an IMG, think twice before choosing it.

 

[zollpad]

Just to comment on the IMG portion of UPMC:

There are 5-6 each year, and they put them in a separate track and have them do a very similar curriculum of that of Shadyside program (which is a community program in one of the UPMC teaching hospitals).

Those IMGs are not part of the categorical program, in fact, residents of the categorical program seem not to like them. Even interview process for IMGs is different: they don't get invited for a pre-interview dinner with the residents, unlike AMGs, and they dont get any interaction with (categorical) residents during the day (other than the chief resident that does the hospital tour).

UPMC presby. is an amazing hospital, and the program is very big on teaching, in fact some people described it as the perfect program (Pitt is a great city, no comparison to cleveland or rochester for example).

However, if you are an IMG, think twice before going there: It was noticed that residents and most staff really hate them. I couldnt understand the reason behind this comment, and I have got it from many trusted people.

When you want to recruit IMGs who are really the creme de la creme (or at least supposed to be), the least you want to do is to integrate them with your regular program, and not ascribe some tag to them. Many of the people that I know (really smart people, many with nature publications and so forth) opted to go to a lesser known university just because they wanted to be treated equally.

In a nutshell, if you are an AMG, this program IS the place to be! if you are an IMG, think twice before choosing it.

I just wanted to chip in that none of the issues about IMGs nor the attitude of AMGs towards IMGs is true. Pitt is a very collegial program with many opportunities and the residents get along well with each other, and actually both AMGs and IMGs hang out together because they are essentially in the same program and hence, spend a lot of time in the hospital together. The IMGs are a part of the categorical program - they are in a clinical scientist track like the CSTP. Other tracks in the program include Women's Health, Geriatrics or Generalist Pathway.

For more information, please visit the website:

http://www.residency.dom.pitt.edu/Program_Overview/tracks/categ_trad.html

Any concerns about the quality of IMGs that the program recruits can be assessed by looking under the "Our Residents" tab in the International Scholars Track.

PM me with questions if you are interested in the program - I have no intention of starting a flame war here.

 

[adagio]

There is no question regarding the quality of IMGs recruited, nor the quality of the program itself. the program reputation does indeed speak for itself.

Concerns that were raised to me, and I have no inner understanding of the mechanisms of your program, were simply the different curriculum of the IMG track (why more shadyside core rotations for instance?) and why IMGs are not integrated in the (traditional) categorical program.

Other high quality programs (Emory, Mayo, Minnesota, Vandy) take IMGs as part of their traditional program. I wonder why this is not the case in Pitt.

 

[zollpad]

Concerns that were raised to me, and I have no inner understanding of the mechanisms of your program, were simply the different curriculum of the IMG track (why more shadyside core rotations for instance?) and why IMGs are not integrated in the (traditional) categorical program.

They actually are a part of the categorical program. Its a track.

I just wanted to clarify that some of the issues brought up by you were likely rumors, and residents actually get along very well.

 

[adagio]

Is it a threat sir? I did not commit any wrongdoing by conveying what I (explicitly) said as rumored and not a fact, (conveyed) to me by friends who heard about it.

Please review carefully my first post:

I couldnt understand the reason behind this comment, and I have got it from many trusted people.

Now, whether or not you agree with this is a different story, you have the right to express what you think about this matter, but I also have the right to say what I have been hearing,

I was not able to check this fact first hand, as I did not apply to your program, but rest assured that if I did and noticed what I have been hearing, I would have been more inclined to confirm these rumors.

Unfortunately, I did not visit there, and therefore I re-emphasize (since you did not take notice the first time) that this has been relayed to me.

Again, my inquiries are left unanswered, instead I was threatened. I feel very uncomfortable continuing with this discussion. I leave it to the judgment of readers.

 

[jdh71]

...

 

[zollpad]

It wasnt meant to be a threat. On the interview trail, SDN users could often identify each other. It was intended to be advice.

Anyway, let's put misunderstandings aside - I have replied to your PM. These rumors are just rumors, and if you are interested in the program, please apply for the program and see for yourself. Its a good place.

 

[DOcat]

From the limited exposure I've had at UPMC Shadyside and Mercy, I've always found there to be a camaraderie amongst all house-staff...IMG, allo and osteo. On another note...I was wondering if you had any insight as to the relationship between the DO residents and allopathic residents at UPMC Presby/Mont? It seems that everyone gets along well, however I've mostly heard about Shadyside and Mercy, and I didn't know if that was consistent over at the main campus as well? I had once heard that it was slightly more "old school" when it came to osteopathic docs in the system.

 

[zollpad]

From the limited exposure I've had at UPMC Shadyside and Mercy, I've always found there to be a camaraderie amongst all house-staff...IMG, allo and osteo. On another note...I was wondering if you had any insight as to the relationship between the DO residents and allopathic residents at UPMC Presby/Mont? It seems that everyone gets along well, however I've mostly heard about Shadyside and Mercy, and I didn't know if that was consistent over at the main campus as well? I had once heard that it was slightly more "old school" when it came to osteopathic docs in the system.

I don't remember seeing any DO residents in the UPMC Presbyterian/Montefiore residency program. However, it seems like the number of DOs in the Shadyside program has increased in the last 2 years, partly because they have an osteopathic component to their internship as well.

The cameraderie seems to be good between the Presby and Shadyside residents. No one really seemed to care if you were a DO or an FMG as you are someone who can get along with most people, and many people from different systems of training seemed to hang out together.