Hi all,
I’m a psychiatry intern at the University of Utah. I thought I’d write up the program because I remember having some difficulty finding current reviews about it last year.
I’d like to start with some nuggets I’ve learned since match day. As some of you might know, this program wasn’t my first choice. I was one of the many applicants hoping to match in California. But, now that I’m here, I’m totally grateful that I matched here despite my narcissism (hey, we all have traits!) getting the best of me, since I’m happier than I’ve ever been before. It’s such a rewarding job, in an environment where residents can thrive. I know the interview process is very anxiety-provoking, but I encourage you to have some faith that program directors know (maybe better than the applicants themselves) which types of folks will be a great fit for their program. It’s easy to get your heart set on one particular place, but keep some perspective that ultimately there are tons of fantastic programs where you can become a competent physician, and very few programs that are malignant or provide unacceptable training. One thing I think I overemphasized in making my rank list was the charisma of program leadership. What’s important is if they care about their residents and will listen to them and advocate for them, and the best program directors can be pretty reserved on the surface. Additionally, I think one thing I under-appreciated when making my rank list was the importance of cost of living for quality of life. If I had matched in LA, my rent for a very uninspiring apartment would be $500 or more a month than my mortgage for a tiny but cute cottage in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in SLC. The financial freedom to comfortably eat out, go to events, and visit family (there are direct <2 hour flights to LA, SJO, Oakland for $140 RT!) has really made my transition a fun one.
So, about the program:
To be honest, I initially had some concerns about the rigor of the program. At the pre-interview dinner, the residents kept emphasizing how they have all this time to make the most of living in a beautiful state. I thought there was no way there could also be an emphasis on excellence like at my first choice, where the residents work tons of hours over the first two years. Turns out I was super wrong— it’s a very strong academic program that attracts really bright people who are passionate about the field. Many of the residents and attendings come off as relaxed, with liberal use of humor and sarcasm, but they also have an internal sense of excellence and compassion. A lot of faculty are involved in interesting research. There are global and women’s health tracks (though they are still being developed to their full potential— hopefully next year’s class will continue to work on this!) There is also an MD/PhD in our class on a research track, but I’m not sure about the details of what that means.
Many of our rotations are at the University Neuropsychiatric Institute, a well-resourced 118-bed dedicated psychiatric hospital that draws interesting cases from 5+ states. The units are focused on different needs, but we carry patients around the hospital, so at most times we have an interesting variety on our list. Interns are capped at 6 patients. The call schedule is exceedingly reasonable (I would guess we average about 1.5 5pm-8pm shifts per week with no weekends at all PGY1. Also, it’s unspoken policy that if you live close to the hospital, you can take call from home. I’m averaging about 1-2 admits per shift, but occasionally get none at all). Still, you certainly work enough and see plenty of patients to learn what you need to know to be a good psychiatrist (usually 35-60 hours a week depending on the rotation, with the VA being significantly lighter than other settings). In addition to UNI, we rotate through a psychiatric unit at the university hospital which focuses on more medically complex patients; the teaching there is excellent. Consult psychiatry is a weaker rotation currently because a pair of attendings at the university hospital was running into issues with the residents, so we were pulled from that setting (the program leadership has zero tolerance for a malignant working environment... honestly, they probably protect us too much... we will have to deal with the occasional jerk in the real world!) Residents are temporarily doing their CL rotations at the VA instead of the academic hospital (lower volume, still good teaching though). I’m told we will be back at the university hospital for CL by next year, so this shouldn’t present a concern for applicants. As far as fellowships, there are strong child and addiction programs, and the department is growing under our current chair, so I wouldn’t be surprised if more options are added in the next few years. The chair is a research- and innovation-oriented guy who also rides a motorcycle and hates meetings— on vibe with the rest of the program!
Didactics are a full day on Wednesdays, from 9ish to 4ish. The senior residents have put an incredible amount of work into improving the curriculum, and I can attest that didactics have been reliably high quality and engaging. If anything, it’s great from wellness perspective (intern year can be isolating at some programs because you don’t have social connections outside of residency yet and you don’t see each other that much); we get a chance to catch up with other classes at the weekly resident meeting, over lunch (we usually have enough time in the schedule to grab a bite with each other at a local restaurant), plus it opens up Tuesday nights for socializing without having to worry about getting up early the next morning.
One thing to know if you are scared of rigorous off-service rotations is that at this program they are done in a 6-month block (3 months inpatient IM, 2 months inpt neuro, and 1 month ED or outpatient VA IM, which are both chill). You will be treated like any other resident on the service, working long hours and carrying lots of patients. It can be a hard time for people, but the senior residents I’ve talked to are glad they had the experience.
The starting salary is $59, 572. So, nothing special (but then again it’s also 20-40% less expensive to live in SLC than the California cities.) Don’t pick your program based on the perks, though also consider if a program is financially solvent to continue to exist for the next 4 years. That said, this program has less perks than some other academic programs— step 3 is not reimbursed, there is no educational stipend (though they bought online access to a ton of books), no moving stipend, no sweet matching pata-Gucci fleeces (though this is possibly in the works). On the other hand, they will fund you to go to a conference if you are presenting. There’s a free gym at UNI and a big discount for both you and your partner at the University gym, which is has a pool and climbing wall. Also, super cheap rentals from their outdoor services for things like kayaks and tents. The website says we only get 15 days of vacation (unlike 4 weeks at a lot of programs) but I think they undersell themselves. We also get a week of personal/conference days, all holidays while on-service, 12 sick days, plus extra days that don’t count against personal days for things like step 3 and funerals. Plus throughout residency we have protected Wednesdays, minimal weekends (they are divided up between the 9 PGY2’s) and almost no overnights (including off-service) except six weeks of night float PGY2. There is definitely enough time to moonlight if you want to. Once you are licensed as a physician (usually winter of PGY2), there are accessible opportunities, including internal ones, due to the severe psychiatrist shortage in the mountain west region.
If you come across them, there are some online reviews from a disgruntled resident a couple years ago about how the program was changing for the worse as far as lifestyle. However, that PD was re-assigned due to resident feedback (like I said, they maybe listen to us too much!), so those reviews are out of date. This year we have a new PD who has been long affiliated with the program and is committed to resident wellness. He’s quiet but honestly one of the nicest people I’ve ever met, with an encyclopedic knowledge of psychiatry.
Lastly, I had concerns about living in Utah, but they were unfounded. Like many cities, SLC shares a lot of the cultural characteristics I valued about California (immigrant-friendly, lesbian mayor, enormous pride festival). It is a mid-size city, which is nice since it’s not overwhelming to live here and there is still plenty to do. It’s become quite a foodie place in the past decade, with great local restaurants, coffee shops, and craft breweries (though you can’t get strong beers on tap, just from a bottle, and you have to get liquor from a state store, the other alcohol rules are pretty normal). There is a thriving music scene, plenty of festivals, and tons of stuff to do outdoors. It is ideally placed for staycations and the inexpensive short get-aways that can be rejuvenating and sustaining in residency. Compared to other great towns like Denver, Seattle and Sacramento, world class skiing is only 30 minutes away and there’s way less traffic (though people will still complain about it). Another difference is weed is not legal (though if that’s your thing I’m sure you could find it and no one would judge you). However, I think the area draws a similar group of transplants— young, active, athletic, people with lots of tattoos. Overall, I think most applicants that want to stay in the west would also be happy here.
Please let me know if you have any questions, I’m happy to answer them.
Kindly,
3Lefts
I’m a psychiatry intern at the University of Utah. I thought I’d write up the program because I remember having some difficulty finding current reviews about it last year.
I’d like to start with some nuggets I’ve learned since match day. As some of you might know, this program wasn’t my first choice. I was one of the many applicants hoping to match in California. But, now that I’m here, I’m totally grateful that I matched here despite my narcissism (hey, we all have traits!) getting the best of me, since I’m happier than I’ve ever been before. It’s such a rewarding job, in an environment where residents can thrive. I know the interview process is very anxiety-provoking, but I encourage you to have some faith that program directors know (maybe better than the applicants themselves) which types of folks will be a great fit for their program. It’s easy to get your heart set on one particular place, but keep some perspective that ultimately there are tons of fantastic programs where you can become a competent physician, and very few programs that are malignant or provide unacceptable training. One thing I think I overemphasized in making my rank list was the charisma of program leadership. What’s important is if they care about their residents and will listen to them and advocate for them, and the best program directors can be pretty reserved on the surface. Additionally, I think one thing I under-appreciated when making my rank list was the importance of cost of living for quality of life. If I had matched in LA, my rent for a very uninspiring apartment would be $500 or more a month than my mortgage for a tiny but cute cottage in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in SLC. The financial freedom to comfortably eat out, go to events, and visit family (there are direct <2 hour flights to LA, SJO, Oakland for $140 RT!) has really made my transition a fun one.
So, about the program:
To be honest, I initially had some concerns about the rigor of the program. At the pre-interview dinner, the residents kept emphasizing how they have all this time to make the most of living in a beautiful state. I thought there was no way there could also be an emphasis on excellence like at my first choice, where the residents work tons of hours over the first two years. Turns out I was super wrong— it’s a very strong academic program that attracts really bright people who are passionate about the field. Many of the residents and attendings come off as relaxed, with liberal use of humor and sarcasm, but they also have an internal sense of excellence and compassion. A lot of faculty are involved in interesting research. There are global and women’s health tracks (though they are still being developed to their full potential— hopefully next year’s class will continue to work on this!) There is also an MD/PhD in our class on a research track, but I’m not sure about the details of what that means.
Many of our rotations are at the University Neuropsychiatric Institute, a well-resourced 118-bed dedicated psychiatric hospital that draws interesting cases from 5+ states. The units are focused on different needs, but we carry patients around the hospital, so at most times we have an interesting variety on our list. Interns are capped at 6 patients. The call schedule is exceedingly reasonable (I would guess we average about 1.5 5pm-8pm shifts per week with no weekends at all PGY1. Also, it’s unspoken policy that if you live close to the hospital, you can take call from home. I’m averaging about 1-2 admits per shift, but occasionally get none at all). Still, you certainly work enough and see plenty of patients to learn what you need to know to be a good psychiatrist (usually 35-60 hours a week depending on the rotation, with the VA being significantly lighter than other settings). In addition to UNI, we rotate through a psychiatric unit at the university hospital which focuses on more medically complex patients; the teaching there is excellent. Consult psychiatry is a weaker rotation currently because a pair of attendings at the university hospital was running into issues with the residents, so we were pulled from that setting (the program leadership has zero tolerance for a malignant working environment... honestly, they probably protect us too much... we will have to deal with the occasional jerk in the real world!) Residents are temporarily doing their CL rotations at the VA instead of the academic hospital (lower volume, still good teaching though). I’m told we will be back at the university hospital for CL by next year, so this shouldn’t present a concern for applicants. As far as fellowships, there are strong child and addiction programs, and the department is growing under our current chair, so I wouldn’t be surprised if more options are added in the next few years. The chair is a research- and innovation-oriented guy who also rides a motorcycle and hates meetings— on vibe with the rest of the program!
Didactics are a full day on Wednesdays, from 9ish to 4ish. The senior residents have put an incredible amount of work into improving the curriculum, and I can attest that didactics have been reliably high quality and engaging. If anything, it’s great from wellness perspective (intern year can be isolating at some programs because you don’t have social connections outside of residency yet and you don’t see each other that much); we get a chance to catch up with other classes at the weekly resident meeting, over lunch (we usually have enough time in the schedule to grab a bite with each other at a local restaurant), plus it opens up Tuesday nights for socializing without having to worry about getting up early the next morning.
One thing to know if you are scared of rigorous off-service rotations is that at this program they are done in a 6-month block (3 months inpatient IM, 2 months inpt neuro, and 1 month ED or outpatient VA IM, which are both chill). You will be treated like any other resident on the service, working long hours and carrying lots of patients. It can be a hard time for people, but the senior residents I’ve talked to are glad they had the experience.
The starting salary is $59, 572. So, nothing special (but then again it’s also 20-40% less expensive to live in SLC than the California cities.) Don’t pick your program based on the perks, though also consider if a program is financially solvent to continue to exist for the next 4 years. That said, this program has less perks than some other academic programs— step 3 is not reimbursed, there is no educational stipend (though they bought online access to a ton of books), no moving stipend, no sweet matching pata-Gucci fleeces (though this is possibly in the works). On the other hand, they will fund you to go to a conference if you are presenting. There’s a free gym at UNI and a big discount for both you and your partner at the University gym, which is has a pool and climbing wall. Also, super cheap rentals from their outdoor services for things like kayaks and tents. The website says we only get 15 days of vacation (unlike 4 weeks at a lot of programs) but I think they undersell themselves. We also get a week of personal/conference days, all holidays while on-service, 12 sick days, plus extra days that don’t count against personal days for things like step 3 and funerals. Plus throughout residency we have protected Wednesdays, minimal weekends (they are divided up between the 9 PGY2’s) and almost no overnights (including off-service) except six weeks of night float PGY2. There is definitely enough time to moonlight if you want to. Once you are licensed as a physician (usually winter of PGY2), there are accessible opportunities, including internal ones, due to the severe psychiatrist shortage in the mountain west region.
If you come across them, there are some online reviews from a disgruntled resident a couple years ago about how the program was changing for the worse as far as lifestyle. However, that PD was re-assigned due to resident feedback (like I said, they maybe listen to us too much!), so those reviews are out of date. This year we have a new PD who has been long affiliated with the program and is committed to resident wellness. He’s quiet but honestly one of the nicest people I’ve ever met, with an encyclopedic knowledge of psychiatry.
Lastly, I had concerns about living in Utah, but they were unfounded. Like many cities, SLC shares a lot of the cultural characteristics I valued about California (immigrant-friendly, lesbian mayor, enormous pride festival). It is a mid-size city, which is nice since it’s not overwhelming to live here and there is still plenty to do. It’s become quite a foodie place in the past decade, with great local restaurants, coffee shops, and craft breweries (though you can’t get strong beers on tap, just from a bottle, and you have to get liquor from a state store, the other alcohol rules are pretty normal). There is a thriving music scene, plenty of festivals, and tons of stuff to do outdoors. It is ideally placed for staycations and the inexpensive short get-aways that can be rejuvenating and sustaining in residency. Compared to other great towns like Denver, Seattle and Sacramento, world class skiing is only 30 minutes away and there’s way less traffic (though people will still complain about it). Another difference is weed is not legal (though if that’s your thing I’m sure you could find it and no one would judge you). However, I think the area draws a similar group of transplants— young, active, athletic, people with lots of tattoos. Overall, I think most applicants that want to stay in the west would also be happy here.
Please let me know if you have any questions, I’m happy to answer them.
Kindly,
3Lefts
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