Unlicensed MD

[JFangel]

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Hello,

I didn’t match and I have taken a job in research that isn’t post doc and is technically below the research nurses. It is providing g the financial stability I need to further my career.

I want to be recognized as MD. Not as a treating physician but just my education level. It’s important to be recognized so that people understand my level of education when they speak to me and with this recognitiondoors open appropriately.

My employer put BS by my name on my door. I work at a teaching hospital.

it hasn’t sat with me well but I would like opinions about the matter.

 

[rokshana]

Hello,

I didn’t match and I have taken a job in research that isn’t post doc and is technically below the research nurses. It is providing g the financial stability I need to further my career.

I want to be recognized as MD. Not as a treating physician but just my education level. It’s important to be recognized so that people understand my level of education when they speak to me and with this recognitiondoors open appropriately.

My employer put BS by my name on my door. I work at a teaching hospital.

it hasn’t sat with me well but I would like opinions about the matter.

Sorry, but not appropriate for you to display an MD when you are not in the role of an MD...it will only serve to confuse people...your job apparently does not need you to be recognized as an MD.

Match, do a residency , then you can be recognized as an MD.

 

[Crayola227]

The above is baseless. You have an MD and should not be labeled as a BS. This is just false information all around.

 

[Apollyon]

Sorry, but not appropriate for you to display an MD when you are not in the role of an MD...it will only serve to confuse people...your job apparently does not need you to be recognized as an MD.

Match, do a residency , then you can be recognized as an MD.

Respectfully, I disagree. Graduate med school, you get the MD. For example, when I was in college, we would visit Carolina Biological. The president there had graduated from Duke Med, but never did residency or practiced medicine. Still an MD!

 

[DarkHorizon]

I think the issue is you’re working at a hospital. I think listing you as an MD at a teaching hospital while you’re unlicensed may raise confusion. I personally wouldn’t care, the people that hired you know your background, but if it bothers you, you should bring it up.

 

[rokshana]

Respectfully, I disagree. Graduate med school, you get the MD. For example, when I was in college, we would visit Carolina Biological. The president there had graduated from Duke Med, but never did residency or practiced medicine. Still an MD!

But that’s not a hospital...no one was going to mistaken him for a clinical physician...the OP is in a teaching hospital...a bit different.

 

[JFangel]

I don’t want to cause confusion but honestly putting BS is just as confusing because it’s not correct or it’s misleading.
WWhat do you think if I ask for

John Smith, MD, CRC

Clinical Research Coordinator = CRC

I know someone at a teaching hospital that teaches med students and sets up curriculum for residents. They call her dr and she puts MD on her name.

I asked her about it and she said it was never an issue.

 

[JFangel]

Or what about

John Smith, graduate of kindergarten

John Smith, MD
Class of 2019

 

[JFangel]

But that’s not a hospital...no one was going to mistaken him for a clinical physician...the OP is in a teaching hospital...a bit different.

I don’t think anyone would confuse me with a practicing physician,my office is tucked away and I only come out to run specimens around and lunch.

 

[deleted480308]

Hello,

I didn’t match and I have taken a job in research that isn’t post doc and is technically below the research nurses. It is providing g the financial stability I need to further my career.

I want to be recognized as MD. Not as a treating physician but just my education level. It’s important to be recognized so that people understand my level of education when they speak to me and with this recognitiondoors open appropriately.

My employer put BS by my name on my door. I work at a teaching hospital.

it hasn’t sat with me well but I would like opinions about the matter.

First step. Was it intentional that they don’t want to put the MD there? Like explicitly stated to you by the decision maker

 

[JFangel]

First step. Was it intentional that they don’t want to put the MD there? Like explicitly stated to you by the decision maker

I’m new. I’m pretty sure they saw my degree when they hired me.

 

[deleted480308]

I’m new. I’m pretty sure they saw my degree when they hired me.

Try just double checking it was on purpose

 

[Mad Jack]

If you weren't in a hospital it probably wouldn't have happened. My bet is it is some weird internal politics thing where they don't want your lesser educated superiors to be offended. Anywhere else you would, and should, carry the MD title.

 

[Gastrapathy]

You could just ask?

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Sorry, but not appropriate for you to display an MD when you are not in the role of an MD...it will only serve to confuse people...your job apparently does not need you to be recognized as an MD.

Match, do a residency , then you can be recognized as an MD.

What are you talking about. That's like saying if you're unemployed after undergrad you can't put BS after your name. Nobody's gonna come ask OP to round on patients if an attending calls in sick.

Yes OP, have them put MD after your name. Unless of course you didn't actually graduate from medical school.

 

[JFangel]

So I understand it can cause confusion because I’m working under nurses. I asked them to remove BS because that is incorrect. I asked them to use MD, CRC or just CRC. They chose CRC.

I’m fine with that

if I do a presentation then I will use MD on the title page because it’s a presentation done by an MD and not just a graduate. I don’t care if that confuses anyone at that point because it’s proper to list my education in such a situation. I’ll explain it to the audience by briefly stating. I am an unlicensed MD working in the CRC role and today I’m presenting ....

 

[ThoracicGuy]

So I understand it can cause confusion because I’m working under nurses. I asked them to remove BS because that is incorrect. I asked them to use MD, CRC or just CRC. They chose CRC.

I’m fine with that

if I do a presentation then I will use MD on the title page because it’s a presentation done by an MD and not just a graduate. I don’t care if that confuses anyone at that point because it’s proper to list my education in such a situation. I’ll explain it to the audience by briefly stating. I am an unlicensed MD working in the CRC role and today I’m presenting ....

I wouldn't do that...

 

[deleted480308]

I wouldn't do that...

Yeah OP, they said not to use it.

Either have the fight now or leave it alone. Don’t be passive aggressive and sneak it in later

 

[JFangel]

Yeah OP, they said not to use it.

Either have the fight now or leave it alone. Don’t be passive aggressive and sneak it in later

Ok

 

[dpmd]

Hello,

I didn’t match and I have taken a job in research that isn’t post doc and is technically below the research nurses. It is providing g the financial stability I need to further my career.

I want to be recognized as MD. Not as a treating physician but just my education level. It’s important to be recognized so that people understand my level of education when they speak to me and with this recognitiondoors open appropriately.

My employer put BS by my name on my door. I work at a teaching hospital.

it hasn’t sat with me well but I would like opinions about the matter.

Why is the bolded important to you? Shouldn't everyone there be respectful to each other and expect people to know their job?

 

[dpmd]

Respectfully, I disagree. Graduate med school, you get the MD. For example, when I was in college, we would visit Carolina Biological. The president there had graduated from Duke Med, but never did residency or practiced medicine. Still an MD!

Sure, and you can also sign your name with M.D. in personal letters and in emails and everywhere else if you want. Just doesn't always make sense to. I have a leadership position with a nonprofit. I didn't feel the need to put M.D. after my name on my business cards with it because that position does not require an M.D. and I don't need it to get respect for my position.

 

[Giovanotto]

So I understand it can cause confusion because I’m working under nurses. I asked them to remove BS because that is incorrect. I asked them to use MD, CRC or just CRC. They chose CRC.

I’m fine with that

if I do a presentation then I will use MD on the title page because it’s a presentation done by an MD and not just a graduate. I don’t care if that confuses anyone at that point because it’s proper to list my education in such a situation. I’ll explain it to the audience by briefly stating. I am an unlicensed MD working in the CRC role and today I’m presenting ....

Personally, I wouldn't have given them any options. You went to medical school, and earned your MD. That isn't up to interpretation and you're not being deceitful by using MD. If anyone wants to clarify with you whether or not you did your residency then they can ask you, otherwise, it's none of their business.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

Personally, I wouldn't have given them any options. You went to medical school, and earned your MD. That isn't up to interpretation

Yes, it is up to interpretation. Using MD telegraphs more than just a level of education, and many states regulate it's usage. So the OP should look into what the state-specific rules are for attaching MD to your name.

For example, here is California's.

 

[JFangel]

Yes, it is up to interpretation. Using MD telegraphs more than just a level of education, and many states regulate it's usage. So the OP should look into what the state-specific rules are for attaching MD to your name.

For example, here is California's.

Illinois states it can’t be used to solicit business as a healthcare professional that treats humans for disease.

it being just on my door and maybe in a presentation or twois far from that.

 

[JFangel]

I think having it on my white coat would be a problem but not my door

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

I think having it on my white coat would be a problem but not my door

Either could be a problem, especially in a clinical setting. Read the statute again. It seems to me that it doesn't matter what you think you're doing, it matters how it's perceived by others. But the language is vague enough as to likely require a lawyer to interpret. Which is why you should feel bound by whatever your employer (ostensibly a hospital) tells you.

Sec. 49. If any person does any of the following and does not possess a valid license issued under this Act, that person shall be sentenced as provided in Section 59: (i) holds himself or herself out to the public as being engaged in the diagnosis or treatment of physical or mental ailments or conditions including, but not limited to, deformities, diseases, disorders, or injuries of human beings; (ii) suggests, recommends or prescribes any form of treatment for the palliation, relief or cure of any physical or mental ailment or condition of any person with the intention of receiving, either directly or indirectly, any fee, gift, or compensation whatever; (iii) diagnoses or attempts to diagnose, operates upon, professes to heal, prescribes for, or otherwise treats any ailment or condition, or supposed ailment or condition, of another; (iv) maintains an office for examination or treatment of persons afflicted, or alleged or supposed to be afflicted, by any ailment or condition; (v) manipulates or adjusts osseous or articular structures; or (vi) attaches the title Doctor, Physician, Surgeon, M.D., D.O. or D.C. or any other word or abbreviation to his or her name indicating that he or she is engaged in the treatment of human ailments or conditions as a business.

 

[rokshana]

I think having it on my white coat would be a problem but not my door

Apparently your employers do think it’s a problem.

This is similar to the NP saying they are a doctor because they are a DNP...or that PhD that got miffed because she wasn’t addressed as “Dr” on the airplane...it is inherently set up to project that one is a medical doctor that has the capabilities to treat pts...you are not yet there.

Why is this important? So the nurses that work over you know that you have an MD and they don’t?
If being recognized that you have an MD, then maybe you should have take a job, say a post doc, that required the higher degree.

 

[Crayola227]

I think it's fine to list you are an MD on a title page of something academic you create.

Really, in the workspace you describe many are aware that non-clinical MDs exist.

If someone were to be confused or to ask, you can just say that you are an MD but you are no longer active in clinical practice.

Some people may ask what that means, you could say that you no longer see patients and your focus is research. All true.

You don't need to say anything more. If in another setting someone were to ask if you were licensed or board eligible/certified, certainly don't say you are. You could say that you didn't pursue the additional training for a license and board certification, and went a different route with the MD. Something many don't know that many doctors do.

 

[Crayola227]

Sure, and you can also sign your name with M.D. in personal letters and in emails and everywhere else if you want. Just doesn't always make sense to. I have a leadership position with a nonprofit. I didn't feel the need to put M.D. after my name on my business cards with it because that position does not require an M.D. and I don't need it to get respect for my position.

Yes but if you were coordinating clinical research would you really feel that your MD credential was out of place?

 

[Crayola227]

I feel like I need to mention having an MD every time a vaccine hesitancy conversation comes up. No, an MD's opinion does count for a certain something in some discussions/arenas, and it should.

Especially when dealing with nurses, in my opinion.

 

[dpmd]

Yes but if you were coordinating clinical research would you really feel that your MD credential was out of place?

If I was in a position classified as requiring less education than nurses I would definitely feel the M.D. credential is out of place

 

[hello1234!]

It sounds like you weren’t hired in the position of a post doctoral researcher, but rather in the position of a BS degree. If your role is not that of a doctor, you probably should not be using the MD. If your role is that a post doctoral researcher, then using the MD degree would be appropriate.

 

[deleted480308]

If I was in a position classified as requiring less education than nurses I would definitely feel the M.D. credential is out of place

"welcome to outback, I'll be your server, Joey MD. Can I start you off with a bloomin' onion?"

 

[Giovanotto]

Apparently your employers do think it’s a problem.

This is similar to the NP saying they are a doctor because they are a DNP...or that PhD that got miffed because she wasn’t addressed as “Dr” on the airplane...it is inherently set up to project that one is a medical doctor that has the capabilities to treat pts...you are not yet there.

Why is this important? So the nurses that work over you know that you have an MD and they don’t?
If being recognized that you have an MD, then maybe you should have take a job, say a post doc, that required the higher degree.

Just lol. So we spend 4 years in school and 300k and can't put MD next to our names? If that's not the most troll thing out there I don't know what is. If the nurses want to have an ego trip cause you went to medical school and they didn't, that's on them.

 

[Giovanotto]

Apparently your employers do think it’s a problem.

This is similar to the NP saying they are a doctor because they are a DNP...or that PhD that got miffed because she wasn’t addressed as “Dr” on the airplane...it is inherently set up to project that one is a medical doctor that has the capabilities to treat pts...you are not yet there.

Why is this important? So the nurses that work over you know that you have an MD and they don’t?
If being recognized that you have an MD, then maybe you should have take a job, say a post doc, that required the higher degree.

That's because the NP didn't go to medical OR graduate school, they went and got an advanced degree in nursing. So not similar at all. OP went to medical school, and is therefore an MD. This isn't an opinion, the school he graduated from conferred him that degree. Again, if anyone want to make a fuss about this, they can take it up with OP's school or the accreditation system. Am I the only one here that feels like he's in crazy town reading some of these replies?

 

[rokshana]

Just lol. So we spend 4 years in school and 300k and can't put MD next to our names? If that's not the most troll thing out there I don't know what is. If the nurses want to have an ego trip cause you went to medical school and they didn't, that's on them.

Lol...it’s so cute, well naive, that you think having that MD without a residency done is really all that valuable in the medical world...it’s just a very expensive piece of paper.

 

[Giovanotto]

Lol...it’s so cute, well naive, that you think having that MD without a residency done is really all that valuable in the medical world...it’s just a very expensive piece of paper.

If you lack the creativity to market yourself as an MD to other businesses, not my problem. OP is obviously only tangentially related to the medical (clinical) world at this point.

 

[rokshana]

I think it's fine to list you are an MD on a title page of something academic you create.

Really, in the workspace you describe many are aware that non-clinical MDs exist.

If someone were to be confused or to ask, you can just say that you are an MD but you are no longer active in clinical practice.

Some people may ask what that means, you could say that you no longer see patients and your focus is research. All true.

You don't need to say anything more. If in another setting someone were to ask if you were licensed or board eligible/certified, certainly don't say you are. You could say that you didn't pursue the additional training for a license and board certification, and went a different route with the MD. Something many don't know that many doctors do.

On something academic, makes sense, in a hospital setting? It’s ment to give the perception they are a practicing practicing/training physician...

 

[rokshana]

If you lack the creativity to market yourself as an MD to other businesses, not my problem. OP is obviously only tangentially related to the medical (clinical) world at this point.

Since I’m a practicing specialist, licensed in almost 10 states, I rarely have to convince people I’m a doctor...heck! I dont even wear a white coat! The less people in the hospital that knows I’m a doctor the better!

 

[Giovanotto]

Since I’m a practicing specialist, licensed in almost 10 states, I rarely have to convince people I’m a doctor...heck! I dont even wear a white coat! The less people in the hospital that knows I’m a doctor the better!

Good for you? Irrelevant to the discussion at hand. OP is not trying to convince anyone he's a practicing physician.

Quoting OP: I want to be recognized as MD. Not as a treating physician but just my education level. It’s important to be recognized so that people understand my level of education when they speak to me and with this recognitiondoors open appropriately.

Yes, agreed my dude. Don't be ashamed. You are doing the right thing, using your hard-earned degree to do better in life.

 

[NITRAS]

Good for you? Irrelevant to the discussion at hand. OP is not trying to convince anyone he's a practicing physician.

Quoting OP: I want to be recognized as MD. Not as a treating physician but just my education level. It’s important to be recognized so that people understand my level of education when they speak to me and with this recognitiondoors open appropriately.

Yes, agreed my dude. Don't be ashamed. You are doing the right thing, using your hard-earned degree to do better in life.

I think the takeaway is that having an MD without a medical license isn’t all that valuable. Degrees are only as important as the value they Produce. There is a lot less intrinsic value to getting an MD that most would think.

 

[Giovanotto]

I think the takeaway is that having an MD without a medical license isn’t all that valuable. Degrees are only as important as the value they Produce. There is a lot less intrinsic value to getting an MD that most would think.

Besides the fact that I philosophically disagree with this, why don't we let the world outside of medicine decide the value of an MD, just like every other degree.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

Besides the fact that I philosophically disagree with this, why don't we let the world outside of medicine decide the value of an MD, just like every other degree.

The outside world has decided the value of an MD without a license, and the value is "not much". Using MD may technically mean the medical degree, in common usage it's meant to convey the ability to treat patients. Hence legal restrictions on it's use. In my mind it's like trying to sell a car without the engine. Sure you can ask for full price...but it's missing a critical part which significantly reduces its value.

The other issue that's been as yet unaddressed is that in this situation, and likely in many others, people don't care whether you have MD after your name. As with most things, you're going to be judged on your competence not your qualifications. If someone throws MD up on their presentation and proceeds to give a shoddy, ill-informed talk, I'm not going to cut them slack. Conversely if someone with a BS gets up and does well, I don't give them less credit because "they only have a BS".

So I say to the OP that this may be important to you, but be aware how its going to be interpreted. I suspect the staff you work with are going to roll their eyes at it, and it may make your life harder. Everyone can complain about how its not fair or how people are entitled to things, but that doesn't change reality.

 

[JFangel]

Apparently your employers do think it’s a problem.

This is similar to the NP saying they are a doctor because they are a DNP...or that PhD that got miffed because she wasn’t addressed as “Dr” on the airplane...it is inherently set up to project that one is a medical doctor that has the capabilities to treat pts...you are not yet there.

Why is this important? So the nurses that work over you know that you have an MD and they don’t?
If being recognized that you have an MD, then maybe you should have take a job, say a post doc, that required the higher degree.

I mentioned nothing about being called doctor.

this is about my level of education being recognized and not insulted by listing BS instead of MD

 

[JFangel]

Since I’m a practicing specialist, licensed in almost 10 states, I rarely have to convince people I’m a doctor...heck! I dont even wear a white coat! The less people in the hospital that knows I’m a doctor the better!

That’s exactly what I want but I’m at the stage where I can either be recognized or fade off to oblivion. If your credentials were contested you would be singing a different tune.

 

[JFangel]

The outside world has decided the value of an MD without a license, and the value is "not much". Using MD may technically mean the medical degree, in common usage it's meant to convey the ability to treat patients. Hence legal restrictions on it's use. In my mind it's like trying to sell a car without the engine. Sure you can ask for full price...but it's missing a critical part which significantly reduces its value.

The other issue that's been as yet unaddressed is that in this situation, and likely in many others, people don't care whether you have MD after your name. As with most things, you're going to be judged on your competence not your qualifications. If someone throws MD up on their presentation and proceeds to give a shoddy, ill-informed talk, I'm not going to cut them slack. Conversely if someone with a BS gets up and does well, I don't give them less credit because "they only have a BS".

So I say to the OP that this may be important to you, but be aware how its going to be interpreted. I suspect the staff you work with are going to roll their eyes at it, and it may make your life harder. Everyone can complain about how its not fair or how people are entitled to things, but that doesn't change reality.

It very well could mean the difference of getting a post doc or residency position if I’m not recognized as a candidate for residency.

 

[NITRAS]

PD aren’t going to care what letters were on your door at your job.

You an American grad?

 

[JFangel]

I just want the haters to know. I get residency and I will be licensed. I do not intend to step on toes but if you get in my way with such an objection to my path being different than yours, then I hope you like the taste of rubber.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

I just want the haters to know. I get residency and I will be licensed. I do not intend to step on toes but if you get in my way with such an objection to my path being different than yours, then I hope you like the taste of rubber.

No one is being a "hater". You asked for opinions, and you got ones you didn't like. That doesn't mean they're incorrect or invalid. But you're reaction to them is somewhat concerning, and isn't going to serve you well on your journey.

Good luck. I--and I suspect everyone here--hope you are successful in getting to residency.

 

[JFangel]

No one is being a "hater". You asked for opinions, and you got ones you didn't like. That doesn't mean they're incorrect or invalid. But you're reaction to them is somewhat concerning, and isn't going to serve you well on your journey.

Good luck. I--and I suspect everyone here--hope you are successful in getting to residency.

If you are hating then you know who you are. If you aren’t then don’t worry about it.