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"Unlicensed Psychotherapists"

Discussion in 'Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]' started by jdawgg, Nov 29, 2010.

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  1. jdawgg

    jdawgg 5+ Year Member

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    It is my understanding that in most states, the practice of psychotherapy is regulated. In my state, Colorado, it is not practice but rather titles/terms that are protected... to include terms such as "psychologist", "psychology", "licensed", or "marriage and family therapist".

    This being the case, my state allows anyone who passes a short jurisprudence exam and pays a filing fee to be listed in a database of "unlicensed psychotherapists". Technically, someone with a 3rd grade education and no training in psychotherapy whatsoever could open a private practice, call themselves a "psychotherapist" (an unregulated term), and charge $125 an hour providing regression hypnosis. Even in a relatively libertarian state, such policy seems reckless at best.

    As if that wasn't enough, these "unlicensed psychotherapists" are now lobbying (yes, they have their own lobbying arm - the "Colorado Association of Psychotherapists") to be referred to as "registered psychotherapists" in our upcoming mental health regulation sunset review. I'm interested in doing a little lobbying of my own here (in conjunction with my professional organization) and was curious if anyone knows if other states have regulations similar to Colorado or if we're alone in this madness (??). :confused:

    Thanks!
     
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  3. DrGero

    DrGero

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    Up until recently, California was in a similar boat - there was the category of "mental health counselors" of whom anyone could be (with the aforementioned third grade education). That's apparently in the process of changing and by 2011 apparently mental health counsellors will require licensure and presumably some reasonable standard of education and training.

    http://www.bbs.ca.gov/lpcc_program/index.shtml

    My understanding was that only California had such a nutty loophole but apparently not.
     
  4. stigmata

    stigmata 2+ Year Member

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    Welcome to Colorado! That is why I practice in Wyoming.
     
  5. jdawgg

    jdawgg 5+ Year Member

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    It's the "Wild West" out here for sure. I get the feeling most of the money funding their lobbying arm comes out of Boulder and Naropa University.
     
  6. stigmata

    stigmata 2+ Year Member

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    I believe it originated with an attempt to allow religious practitioners access to counseling clients with some form of oversight, but it was and is a horrible idea.
     
  7. loveoforganic

    loveoforganic -Account Deactivated- 2+ Year Member

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    I'm glad to find out there was at least some common sense / good will behind such an inane idea.
     
  8. O Gurl

    O Gurl

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    Oh jeeze... the sickness is spreading! :scared:

    Yes, there is also madness in Texas as we fight to prevent LPA's from misrepresenting themselves as psychologists and practicing independently (without proper training of course cause who needs that?)

    Perhaps we need to combine into one big SAVE OUR PROFESSION thread.
     
  9. Riomalignant

    Riomalignant

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    Having earned a master's degree from Colorado, and being a "clinician" (hopefully that is PC enough), I can tell you firsthand that the state is weird in many respects, mental health being no exception. The regulations seem incredibly laissez-faire, largely due to the lobbying that occurs (and not just CAP: AACC has a strong following there as well).

    In retrospect, if I had known the effects of the education, I would have gone somewhere else. As it it, I am trying to salvage what little substance of graduate courses are left in order to apply for a Counseling Psych. PhD at OU. Beware of many of CO's MA or PsyD schools. Bad things...
     
  10. Zigman

    Zigman Neuropsych Fellow 2+ Year Member

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    I'm curious where you are referring to in CO, in terms of shady schools. Having a earned a master's at a state university there and currently pursuing an APA-accredited doctorate at a respected univerisity there, I'm confused. Sure, we have Univ. of Phoenix and Argosy, and a few other of the same sort of schools. But these, I think, are recognizable as being sub-standard. We also have several APA-accredited and respected PhDs and university-based PsyDs...

    I've always thought the unlicensed psychotherapist thing here was bizarre, and I sure hope they don't get to call themselves "registered."
     
  11. Riomalignant

    Riomalignant

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    The market in Colorado Springs is completely saturated. I'm referring specifically to many schools within that region (not to say they are bad, rather, if I had known then what I know now, I would have steered clear of at least that area). By no means am I saying that your program, or other, reputable ones are "shady." If anything, I'm speaking to the looseness of licensing and regulation which CO seems to be dealing with.
     
  12. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    I briefly considered CO, but the salaries out there are rough (for the cost of living) because of the saturation. I was warned about the plethora of "other" competition.
     
  13. Zigman

    Zigman Neuropsych Fellow 2+ Year Member

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    Ok, gotcha. I know very little about the psych community down there...except that we often have difficulty finding appropriate referrals for patients in that area who have been evaluated at the hospitals where I work (in the Denver metro area).

    I am with you on the regulatory issues. There are several reports in recent history of unethical/harmful treatments being conducted by private "practitioners."

    I would say though, that if one wishes to train in CO, there are many opportunities for solid training. As you have alluded to, one should stick to known-entities (e.g., University of Colorado campuses, Colorado State University, University of Denver)
     
  14. stigmata

    stigmata 2+ Year Member

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    Dude, move to Cheyenne. 50 miles from ft. collins, Colorado and we could hire you tomorrow at 6 figgies.:cool: shhh
     
  15. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    If I jump ship from academic medicine...it would be for a place like that. I want land, neighbors who live far away, and some horses.
     
  16. loveoforganic

    loveoforganic -Account Deactivated- 2+ Year Member

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    I don't trust psychologists and all their behavior training with horses

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. stigmata

    stigmata 2+ Year Member

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    FYI I teach at a residency too
     
  18. Shatani

    Shatani Real Life Doctory Type 7+ Year Member

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    hilarious!
     
  19. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Nice. The thing I love about the academic medical setting is the teaching/mentorship that happens all around, both formal and informal.

    As for the topic at hand...we need MUCH BETTER representation at the state and federal level if we want to keep the quacks and hacks from practicing with their healing rocks, moonbeam light, and life coaching manuals.
     
  20. sunlioness

    sunlioness Fierce. Proud. Strong 10+ Year Member

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    Wow. Can these people bill insurance? Are there liability insurers that will cover them?


    Unlicensed practitioners are by and large shady. They don't know what they don't know, which is always a scary thing.
     
  21. jdawgg

    jdawgg 5+ Year Member

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    I know that they can't bill insurance, but there are liability insurance companies that cover these people. Scary stuff.
     
  22. Riomalignant

    Riomalignant

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    I am unaware of any liability insurance companies that UPs (unlicensed psychotherapists) can bill. As far as I remember, UPs have no billing capability whatsoever, unless they were working within an agency setting. Even under another professional's license, UPs couldn't bill insurance companies, because even as bad as they tend to be, they know not to deal with that hot mess.
     
  23. jdawgg

    jdawgg 5+ Year Member

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    They cannot bill medical insurance, but they can purchase liability coverage (against being sued). See The American Professional Agency, Inc, CPH & Associates, Rockport Insurance Associates, HPSO, Philadelphia Insurance Company, Colony Insurance Company, Madison Insurance Group and others...
     
  24. AcronymAllergy

    AcronymAllergy Neuropsychologist SDN Moderator 7+ Year Member

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    Makes you wonder if the insurance company's response in a malpractice suit would then be something akin to, "unfortunately, given your unlicensed status, we are unable to defend you or your practice at this time; however, we thank you for your history of timely premium payments."
     
  25. Riomalignant

    Riomalignant

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    I see; I misread your statement about billing liability insurance companies as opposed to being covered by said liability companies.
     
  26. DrGachet

    DrGachet Banned

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    Sunlioness says: "Unlicensed practitioners are by and large shady. They don't know what they don't know, which is always a scary thing. "
    I wouldn't go as far as that.
    It is unfortunate that those of us who spent years training at supposedly great institutions and are licensed by some prestigious licensing body, are not necessarily significantly more successful in treating clients/patients.
    Nor do we have research that supports the supposed significant superiority of our skills or methods. Nor do we have convincing rationale for why certain methods work or should work.
    And this push for evidence-based treatments (for insurance purposes, really) is not turning out what we expected either.
    This is not a black and white issue, of course, and by no means am I suggesting that anything goes or that unlicensed "therapists" are just as good as some of the finely trained psychology students and psychologists here.
    But our field is not called physics. And mental illness is not a wound we can just stitch up. Mental illness and its treatments exist in a place where philosophy, psychology, biology, sociology, politics, and culture/religion meet.
    We need to acknowledge that some unlicensed folks can treat others just as well if not better. We need to do research on effectiveness of their methods, even if we are to call them placebo effects (so called common factors). If we're to come on top, we need to acknowledge that their methods are worthy of study.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2010
  27. ela

    ela 7+ Year Member

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  28. ela

    ela 7+ Year Member

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    Hear hear.
     
  29. sunlioness

    sunlioness Fierce. Proud. Strong 10+ Year Member

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    I disagree. There is no oversight for people who are practicing without a license. No standards they are expected to meet, etc. I once ran into an unlicensed provider locally who had a degree in English, worked a few years as an administrator at a substance abuse program, took some weekend workshops in a certain kind of psychotherapy and was absolutely convinced that she was as qualified as any licensed therapist with advanced degrees. And then she started telling me how she treats various conditions and my mind boggled. Not to mention some significant boundary issues.

    Standards and licensing exist in part to protect patients from quacks who don't know what they're doing and I, for one, think that's a needed thing. Not to say that there aren't licensed quacks out there, but at least in that case there is professional oversight from the licensing boards and consequences for not meeting required standards.

    Which isn't to say that I don't think other fields have merit. By all means if a person is having spiritual issues, talking to clergy can help. Other fields do have merit and integrative care is always the ideal. But this is something completely different. This is people deciding on their own that they're as qualified as people who are trained to provide competent psychotherapy. And I disagree.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2010
  30. Jon Snow

    Jon Snow Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    I agree. The key here is that we (psychology/psychiatry) approach mental health scientifically. This is a legitimate health speciality. We can study claims outside of these realms (e.g., herbal supplements like St. John's Wort), but we don't claim them effective until it is scientifically demonstrated. While people may find comfort in other approaches to maintaining health, be it voodoo, religion, running head first into a wall, or whatever, we do not advocate these approaches unless they are scientifically evaluated. I am not willing to cede equivalence/validity to untested methods, nor do I find it ethical for people to play doctor without training or scientific evidence, supporting whatever hair-brained idea they may have based on superstition (religion), their own insanity, or the desire to profit.
     
  31. Riomalignant

    Riomalignant

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    Interesting thread, lots of good point-counterpoint flowing here.

    I raise a question: where do the methods that counselors employ typically come from? The answer can be found in most domains of psychology and psychiatry. The scientific practitioners were the ones (by and large) who stepped in and developed systematic approaches to to intervention that most counselors use today. This isn't to say that an integration of modalities and theories doesn't become subjective and in some cases, dangerous. I just think that there's more to simply chalking it up to a counselor (here, unlicensed psychotherapist) "playing doctor." If anything, flattery presents itself, because most UPs endorse/use these scientific methods.

    On another note, we must also question the misconception that just because an individual registered in CO's database as an Unlicensed Psychotherapist makes them a hack or a phony or unqualified right off the bat. UPs are required to seek out, secure, and obtain supervision from a Licensed specialist (an LPC, LCSW, LMFT, or Licensed Psychologist), as well as obtain ongoing credits. Does this eliminate problems or shady goober in the field (rhetorical...:laugh:). It does cover some bases, though.

    So, while the unethical people are out there in droves, and quite possibly tucked away near the Rockies, it's not safe to automatically qualify all UPs as unethical, as I fear that may be where a discussion such as this could possibly head. I know many UPs who are actively working toward licensure under some excellent practitioners with nothing less than the interest of people in mind.

    Just something to think about...
     
  32. Riomalignant

    Riomalignant

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    I think it would be false to assume such; however, it may be more appropriate to state "oversight for those practicing without a license is lax, at best."

    I also wonder how much of this has to do with good old fashioned turf wars?
     
  33. jdawgg

    jdawgg 5+ Year Member

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    As far as I'm aware, in Colorado there is no requirement for UPs to obtain supervision of any kind.

    I also completely disagree that most UPs who are not actively seeking licensure endorse the scientific method... cast your eyes below.

    Copied from the Colorado Association of Psychotherapists website:

    These are the types of therapies offered by our members.*

    • Addictions/Recovery
    • Body Alignment Technique
    • Body Centered Psychotherapy
    • Brain Injury Treatment
    • Cellular Healing
    • Cellular Release Therapy TM
    • Child & Adolescent Therapy
    • Coaching
    • Cognitive Rehabilitation Therapy
    • Counseling
    • Couples/Relationships Therapy
    • Cranial Sacral Therapy
    • Cult Abuse
    • Custody evaluation
    • Divorce recovery counseling
    • Domestic Violence Treatment
    • Dream interpretation
    • Emotionally Focused Couples Therapy
    • Emotional Freedom Techniques
    • Employment Counseling
    • Enneagram
    • Equine Assisted Therapy
    • Family Counseling/Therapy
    • Gestalt Therapy
    • Grief Counseling
    • Hakomi Method of Experiential Psychotherapy
    • Hypnobirthing
    • Hypnotic Child Birth
    • Hypnotherapy
    • Inner Child Therapy
    • Jungian Therapy/Analysis
    • Life Transitions
    • Massage Therapy
    • Medical Hypnotherapy
    • Music Therapy
    • Neuro Linguistic Programming
    • Pain Management
    • Parenting skills
    • Past Life & Regression Therapy
    • Pastoral Counseling
    • Polarity Therapy
    • Primal Therapy
    • Psychotherapy
    • PSYCH-K
    • Reiki
    • Rubenfeld Synergy
    • Sandtray therapy
    • Sexual Abuse Treatment
    • Shamanic Journeys
    • Sleep problems treatment
    • Smoking Cessation
    • Somatic Experiencing Practitioner
    • Spirit Releasement Therapy
    • Spiritual Counseling
    • Stress Management
    • Systemic Constellation Work
    • Thought Field Therapy
    • Transpersonal Hypnotherapy
    • Transpersonal Psychology
    • Trauma Release Therapy
    • Treatment of Depression, Anxiety, Fears, Phobias
    • Treatment of Eating Disorders
    • Voice Dialogue
    • Weight Loss
    • Whole Health Hypnotherapy
    • Yoga Therapy
     
  34. Riomalignant

    Riomalignant

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    For those pursuing licensure, there is the requirement to obtain supervision. This is not to say that there are the UPs who have no interest in licensure and just want to "help" people. And sure - they probably do use methods that have little to no empirical basis. The issue is not so much with them (the fringe of "practitioners" :scared: who could probably use some one on one time with a professional their self), but with the assumption that a UP who is pursuing licensure is automatically lumped into that category of unprofessionalism, unethical behavior, and most deplorably, unscientific methodology. And and far as CO state laws are concerned, I do not recall whether or not any person wishing to "practice" (again, a loose term) has to secure supervision, which is a state issue, not a individual UP issue.

    Second, you cite CAP, probably the most egregious organized group to define what the real, or those practicing under the guidelines of ethics and safety, practitioners do day in and day out. CAP is really a joke in a lot of ways, and now we can see why.

    To sum, simply because a person is a UP does not automatically negate their ability to practice exceptional psychotherapy. Furthermore, those that do practice without supervision - and I'm sure it happens - do so as a result of the state's lax public health policies and lassez faire mentality of order and stucture with repsect to the safety and security of the general public. Perhaps the only saving grace is a system where the phonies and hacks can be reported (DORA).
     
  35. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Do you want a UP practicing dentistry, surgery, chiropractic manipulation, etc.? I've taken all of the pre-med reqs and I rocked at the game OPERATION as a kid, does that qualify me as a surgeon? How about if I attend some seminars on spine manipulation and I sought guidance from a yogi about aligning my spirit with my spine, am I qualified? A few years ago I read a stack of books and journal articles on a variety of supplements. Should I be allowed to provide nutrition plans for kids with diabetes or cancer survivors? Before you answer any of these questions, please keep in mind...I REALLY want to help people!! I know that I don't need any formal training, licensing, or oversight because as long as I want to help, that will be enough to make everything okay.

    People try and discount the impact of various talk therapies by saying, "what harm can they do?" without fully evaluating those people who are most apt to seek out "alternative" help from UPs. The most likely are typically desperate, sick, and often disenfranchised. They often have significant mental illness, which is a risk factor for suicidality. I'm not sure how many people have worked with severe pathology, but these cases are difficult enough for formally trained, supervised, and licensed practitioners, let alone some hack off the street who attended a weekend seminar and bought some magic healing rocks. Who is going to protect the most vulnerable people out there from the hacks, fair dust sellers, and quacks?

    If someone really wants to help other people, then they should go through approved training paths that provide additional education, supervision, and eventually licensure. There are no shortcuts just because someone wants to really really help.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
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  36. sunlioness

    sunlioness Fierce. Proud. Strong 10+ Year Member

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    I agree, T4C. And the amount of damage an unqualified, incompetent and/or unethical therapist can do is quite significant.
     
  37. Ollie123

    Ollie123 10+ Year Member

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    CAN an unqualified person make some correct decisions when it comes to mental health treatment? Absolutely. Can we learn something from them? Quite possibly. I learn something new from the clients I see every single day, and they are certainly not all PhD level psychologists.

    That all seems irrelevant to the ethics involved and the question of whether or not they should be allowed to practice. The point is that it is not up to them (or at least shouldn't be) to decide if they are qualified or not. I have no problems calling someone who goes "around" a system unethical, and I do believe that even passive tolerance of such things poses a significant danger to patients. Pick any task you like and I can guarantee you out there that somewhere out there exists SOMEONE who could be decent at it on their own, through natural talent, self-study, whatever else. That doesn't mean I think its okay for them to do so.

    No one is saying we shouldn't study common factors in therapy...but we can study that in licensed individuals as well. We can try new things in a careful, controlled fashion without opening the floodgates for everyone who wants to be a psychological healer because they read a book on how moonbeams align their third shakra to be viewed with legitimacy. I guess I'm not clear what your point is. These folks are behaving unethically...point blank. I don't care what their intentions are....all kinds of evil acts are done with the best of intentions.
     
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  38. Student4Life0

    Student4Life0

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    hmm..well i really like the stars. planets fascinate me, and ive read a book or two about outer space. maybe i can be an astronaut!
     
  39. DrGachet

    DrGachet Banned

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    I don't think everyone who really really really wants to help others becomes or should become a therapist (boundary issues). Nor do all therapists really really really want to help people; there are all sorts of reasons people become therapists, and a therapist is a professional first and foremost. He gets paid. And you're talking about the professional side of it here. You went through the long and arduous training, spent money and time, and so should others. Right? And this makes sense to me. It's about fairness, saturated markets, etc. And it makes sense to have a license that supposedly means that we know what we're doing, that we are ethical, etc. And to stop people, licensed or not, from abusing others.

    Let's face it, if we were really concerned about helping people, we would try to help them rebuild their communities. We're yet another profession in this individualized, professionalized, and fragmented world, making money off lonely and marginalized people; and in return provide 45 minutes when they can bitch about being laid off, not seeing their kids anymore, loneliness and hopelessness. We reframe the issues, tell them their options, provide "active listening" and throw them back in the middle of it.

    We say it's not your fault. Now, go back out there, lie and cheat, make the sale to the person you know can't afford it, but you shouldn't care because that's not your job. You are playing a role. We keep asking people to live lives that are unnatural to them. Put your dad in senior's home, buy the kids expensive gifts instead of spending time (that you do not have) with them, because this is what you need to do to live your life. And if it gets too much, see us so we can justify the status quo in a caring and supportive manner...for the right price.

    Some of the most helpful people in my life have not been therapists. They have been people who were respectful, honest, strong-minded, supportive, caring, and loving. They picked me up, expecting nothing in return. Why did they pick me up and many others? Because that's something you do...apparently. Because when you see someone who needs help, you help them! I got lost driving in a small city, one time, and this old couple invited me to their home (it was late at night), treated me like a family member, and were so loving and caring that I spent hours crying back home because they reminded me what it means to love and be loved.
     
  40. sunlioness

    sunlioness Fierce. Proud. Strong 10+ Year Member

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    There are lots of ways to help others without being a therapist. If you want to help people by building houses, that's awesome and needed. If you want to help people by being a friendly ear to friends and family, that's awesome and needed. If you want to help people by providing psychotherapy, go to school and get licensed.

    Friends, family and the kindness of strangers are all excellent and needed things for which I am very grateful. This is different than psychotherapy. If a guy stops on the side of the road and offers to help me change my flat tire, while I may appreciate that gesture and be emotionally warmed by it that doesn't mean he'd provide good psychotherapy.

    Providing psychotherapy is not leeching off the downtrodden. It's making an honest living by providing a service, which is hopefully professionally rewarding to the person providing it and useful to the person receiving it. Your description of what psychotherapy entails is not my experience.
     
  41. DrGachet

    DrGachet Banned

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    Okay, let me break this down so there are no misunderstandings.

    1. I very much agree that people with severe mental health issues (generally hopeless and desperate people) are amongst those more vulnerable to charlatanism.

    2. I very much agree that these people need protection from the unethical business opportunists--some who know their methods are a joke and their confidence in them merely a front, and others who have even duped themselves. I wholeheartedly support measures that would hold these people accountable.

    3. In a 2005 Annual Review article, McFall quotes Bickman (1999, Practice makes perfect and other myths about mental health services), stating:

    It is a myth to believe that effective mental health services are assured by (a) clinical experience, (b) degree program training, (c) continuing education, (d ) licensing, (e) accreditation, or ( f ) clinical supervision....If persons with master’s or bachelor’s degrees, or perhaps with no degree at all, might do as well as those with Ph.D.s or Psy.D.s at delivering the same services, perhaps doctoral programs should stop admitting applicants who are interested primarily in careers as practitioners, admitting only those applicants interested in research training for careers as scientists.

    I am going to take this a step further and say that those services McFall speaks of are questionable themselves, which is perhaps why we need more scientists. So it's not just about who can deliver them, but what it is that we're delivering. He is thinking of managed care and standardized treatments, of course. Regardless, I think we need to look at the research that's out there, and generally it doesn't seem to support the kind of conclusions some are presenting here.

    4. There are many different ways to help others, but I sometimes wonder if we're all aware of it. Psychology and psychotherapy is not the only way to go. Just because we label something a mental health issue, it doesn't mean psychotherapy is the best or only answer. I consider religious/spiritual, sociological, cultural, political, economical, and biological views as well. When I talk about building communities, I'm speaking of people having a sense of community, belonging, and connection. I look at evolutionary view of what sort of environment our biological bodies were made for. Were we made to work in cubicles behind a computer screen and see a shrink once a month, a dose of SSRI maybe?

    What I am ultimately asking for is some humility. We're all human beings and we have needs, and so turf wars and all that is expected, as are abuses of power and authority, unethical practitioners, opportunists, etc. I sincerely hope that in near future, we'll be able to rely on strong scientific evidence for what training we require of psych students. That we'll have excellent outcome when we provide therapy (well above common factors). It's all relative of course. Think of meds with horrible side effects, even death, psychiatry's shameful history or...lobotomy anyone? Nobel Prize for Physiology doesn't mean the same anymore.

    Licensing should separate the real and effective from the quacks and incompetents, and I'm afraid that currently it means...something and I'm not sure what.
     
  42. PsyDGrrrl

    PsyDGrrrl Head Shrinker 7+ Year Member

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    • ...Oy....

      And what is PSYCH-K?!
     
  43. jdawgg

    jdawgg 5+ Year Member

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    From their website... eek!

    How does PSYCH-K communicate with the subconscious?

    PSYCH-K uses a specific type of muscle testing to check the subconscious for limiting beliefs or perceptions. Muscle testing is an extremely effective way to communicate with the subconscious, because this part of the mind also controls motor functions such as movement. When the subconscious is presented with a statement it believes to be false, it sends a delayed or disrupted neurological signal to the muscle being tested. The false statement produces a weak muscle test, whereas a statement that is consistent with the subconscious belief system allows the muscle to remain strong. Depending upon the muscle response, we can determine whether the subconscious is holding a particular belief.

    How are beliefs changed in the subconscious?
    PSYCH-K techniques create a state of mind that is receptive to change at the subconscious level. We refer to this state as whole-brain, because the left and right hemispheres of the brain are in balanced, simultaneous communication with each other. Using the power of the whole-brain state, we can replace old negative tapes and programs with positive beliefs and perceptions.

    How long does it take to change a belief?
    The processing power of the subconscious mind is enormous; it can handle thousands of tasks simultaneously. Because balances utilize the whole brain, an old belief can be changed within minutes to a new life-enhancing one. The process is simple, direct, and verifiable through muscle testing.
     
  44. cara susanna

    cara susanna 7+ Year Member

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    Feb 10, 2008
    East Coast
    The "Cult Abuse" one alarmed me the most.
     
  45. sunlioness

    sunlioness Fierce. Proud. Strong 10+ Year Member

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    Feb 23, 2007
    Physician
    Agreed. It brings to mind the image of a "true believer" therapist and her poor unsuspecting victim, erm client, who soon comes to believe that she's given birth to 13 of her father's children for the purpose of ritual human sacrifice.

    *headdesk*
     
  46. Jon Snow

    Jon Snow Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Ah, the more things change. . .

    see wilhelm reich and character armoring.
     
  47. Querty

    Querty

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    I may be a bit late on my reply, but the primary purpose for the "unlicensed psychotherapist" is for people who have completed their master's level education in counseling and are working toward licensure, but are still short of the 2000 hours of post-master's work needed to acquire an LPC. The purpose for registering is so clients may still file a grievance to the state about a pre-licensed practitioner.

    The reason that there are lobbyists to change the name to "registered psychotherapists" is because there is a HUGE negative connotation to the phrase "unlicensed," wouldn't you agree? The bad taste that the term "unlicensed" may leave in a potential client's mouth plus the saturated market for counselors in the state of Colorado really restricts any pre-licensed clinicians opportunities to obtain hours to achieve licensure. I believe at this point a bill has passed, and the title is going to be changed from “unlicensed” to “registered.”

    Secondly, the jurisprudence test is a TAD more difficult than a short legal quiz...topics covered are not something any simpleton would know without very thorough research of the state statutes and laws. I recently met a counselor at the CCA (Colorado Counseling Association) conference, who has been licensed in Michigan for over twenty years. He said in order to practice in Colorado he had to pass the jurisprudence exam. He had been working on it for weeks, and was still having trouble with it.

    Registration also requires that you submit your informed mandatory disclosure, which includes your credentials/education. If you never graduated high school, it will be included in every disclosure you give to a client prior to beginning services....so even if it is someone with just a third grade education (firstly, I doubt they would pass the jurisprudence exam) it would be stated in the mandatory disclosure. You also have to submit proof of your education level along with your application, along with the $180 application fee (which must be paid each time you fail the jurisprudence exam and would like to take it again). Once entered into the database, you can hang your shingle, and start seeing clients.

    I know this doesn't mean that it is impossible for and yo-yo to go through the process and start seeing clients, but I hope it supplies some rationale behind it, as well as some understanding that it's not as simple as it may seem.
     
  48. stigmata

    stigmata 2+ Year Member

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    Apr 30, 2010
    cheyenne, wyoming
    When I moved from Ca. to Co. I read the appropriate legal documents/statutes provided and passed the jurisprudence exam; it took about 1 hour total???
     
  49. PsychBrownBag

    PsychBrownBag 5+ Year Member

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    Hattiesburg, MS
    The notion that the push for evidence-based treatments is due to insurance reasons is an empty talking point that gets repeated over and over again despite it's complete lack of legitimacy. Certainly, as is the case with any cause, there are people who push for implementation for nefarious reasons, but the push for evidence-based care is based firmly upon the belief that, if somebody is going to provide health care, we should be certain that the individual is providing something with the greatest odds of producing an optimal outcome.

    Let's look at it from another angle. If it is unimportant to prioritize evidence-based care, how do we handle the prevalent use of iatrogenic treatments?

    Alternatively, consider things from the angle of informed consent. If UPs can practice whatever they want with whatever training (if any) they have, how can we ensure that clients are actually provided with accurate information regarding the strengths and risks associated with a particular treatment relative to those associated with a different treatment(s)?

    Evidence-based practice is imperfect, but that is the very nature of science. The list of empirically supported treatments is not a list of perfect modalities to be forever enshrined as the best of the best, but rather a constantly evolving group of treatments that through systematic study are refined, replaced, and repeatedly tested as new ideas emerge, new data provide a shifting perspective, etc...

    It's entirely possible that a UP can provide great care. There is some compelling evidence that folks with very little training in evidence-based care can do a great job and at my internship site we place a high priority on training clinicians in the community with little to know actual psychology background in the implementation of evidence-based treatments. That being said, I think the more important things to keep an eye on are (1) what kind of treatments are they providing (2) how are they assessing for particular diagnoses (3) based upon psychometrically sound measures, what kind of outcomes are they attaining. If the answers to those questions are positive, I don't care who the provider is.
     
  50. Nog

    Nog 2+ Year Member

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    Jun 7, 2010
    Slightly off-topic, but how do you view the dispute between ESTs and EBP?

    http://psycnet.apa.org/?fa=main.doiLanding&uid=2004-21167-003
     
  51. Querty

    Querty

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    Mar 30, 2011
    I see your status is a psychologist, which I'm assuming means that you are have a doctoral-level education, passed the board licensing test and also have worked a minimum hours (I believe its 1500 hours in Colorado, but I'm not sure what it is in California) that are required post-doctoral clinical work needed to obtain the title of "psychologist," is that correct? And it took you an hour to complete a forty question exam? That sounds appropriate.

    This gentleman I met at the conference may not have been as up-to-snuff on legal/ethical issues, or perhaps he was having difficulty navigating DORA's website. As a counselor not a psychologist, I'm sure he didn't have the same education as you must have. It's also possible that the California legal guidelines are more comprehensible to Colorado's laws than are Michigan's. The point is that it's not an exam easily passed by someone with little to no training. It's likely that someone who doesn't have near your training would not pass the exam as quickly or easily as you did.
     

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