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I was not aware that the Hypnotoad was practicing in Colorado. And without a license, no less.
All glory to hypnotoad! Hypnotoad on Ice!
I was not aware that the Hypnotoad was practicing in Colorado. And without a license, no less.
I see your status is a psychologist, which I'm assuming means that you are have a doctoral-level education, passed the board licensing test and also have worked a minimum hours (I believe its 1500 hours in Colorado, but I'm not sure what it is in California) that are required post-doctoral clinical work needed to obtain the title of "psychologist," is that correct? And it took you an hour to complete a forty question exam? That sounds appropriate.
This gentleman I met at the conference may not have been as up-to-snuff on legal/ethical issues, or perhaps he was having difficulty navigating DORA's website. As a counselor not a psychologist, I'm sure he didn't have the same education as you must have. It's also possible that the California legal guidelines are more comprehensible to Colorado's laws than are Michigan's. The point is that it's not an exam easily passed by someone with little to no training. It's likely that someone who doesn't have near your training would not pass the exam as quickly or easily as you did.
Please do.I'd be happy to point them out if anyone is interested.
Anybody want to take a bet on whether or not this person posts again?If one were to thoroughly review the posts on this forum about unlicensed psychotherapy they may see what I see. In almost every post in defense of licensure requirement the manifestations of mental illness are obvious. The examples are abundant. I'd be happy to point them out if anyone is interested.
It is my understanding that in most states, the practice of psychotherapy is regulated. In my state, Colorado, it is not practice but rather titles/terms that are protected... to include terms such as "psychologist", "psychology", "licensed", or "marriage and family therapist".
This being the case, my state allows anyone who passes a short jurisprudence exam and pays a filing fee to be listed in a database of "unlicensed psychotherapists". Technically, someone with a 3rd grade education and no training in psychotherapy whatsoever could open a private practice, call themselves a "psychotherapist" (an unregulated term), and charge $125 an hour providing regression hypnosis. Even in a relatively libertarian state, such policy seems reckless at best.
As if that wasn't enough, these "unlicensed psychotherapists" are now lobbying (yes, they have their own lobbying arm - the "Colorado Association of Psychotherapists") to be referred to as "registered psychotherapists" in our upcoming mental health regulation sunset review. I'm interested in doing a little lobbying of my own here (in conjunction with my professional organization) and was curious if anyone knows if other states have regulations similar to Colorado or if we're alone in this madness (??).
Thanks!
I think that what you're saying is awefully prejudice and extremely ignorant. What exactly makes schooling any different than life experience? involvement in circumstance any different than a classroom? I have schooling. But I can assure you that spending those hours in the classroom learning about the "realities of the field", taking test after test, involved and intrigued with my studies- didn't teach me even a small fraction of the things I have learned through life experience. I may not have my masters or my doctorate, so I may not be able to diagnose or prescribe. However I have received my bachelors in psychology with a minor in corrections, and I'll tell you? It was a waste of time. For people like you who think that you have the right to be bad mouthing an entire group of people who are out there trying to make a living helping others in their own ways? Shows one of the largest problems with the field of psychology/psychotherapy altogether. That problem is entitlement and delusions of grandeur once you receive your diplomas. It's more about you than it is about the client! I will receive my masters and doctorate some day. But while I finish schooling I choose to spend my time as a psychotherapist in Colorado helping people. Truly helping. so please reply! Bad mouth my post. Make yourself sound even more ignorant. Show the world that you are an entitled person who only cares about his/her recognition. Because psychotherapy is about helping others, not about YOU. And one last thing? That exam is harder than any I took in school. I dare you to take it WITHOUT HELP in a days time without studying for a month or more. I bet you can't pass it.
I think that what you're saying is awefully prejudice and extremely ignorant. What exactly makes schooling any different than life experience? involvement in circumstance any different than a classroom? I have schooling. But I can assure you that spending those hours in the classroom learning about the "realities of the field", taking test after test, involved and intrigued with my studies- didn't teach me even a small fraction of the things I have learned through life experience. I may not have my masters or my doctorate, so I may not be able to diagnose or prescribe. However I have received my bachelors in psychology with a minor in corrections, and I'll tell you? It was a waste of time. For people like you who think that you have the right to be bad mouthing an entire group of people who are out there trying to make a living helping others in their own ways? Shows one of the largest problems with the field of psychology/psychotherapy altogether. That problem is entitlement and delusions of grandeur once you receive your diplomas. It's more about you than it is about the client! I will receive my masters and doctorate some day. But while I finish schooling I choose to spend my time as a psychotherapist in Colorado helping people. Truly helping. so please reply! Bad mouth my post. Make yourself sound even more ignorant. Show the world that you are an entitled person who only cares about his/her recognition. Because psychotherapy is about helping others, not about YOU. And one last thing? That exam is harder than any I took in school. I dare you to take it WITHOUT HELP in a days time without studying for a month or more. I bet you can't pass it.
I think that what you're saying is awefully prejudice and extremely ignorant. What exactly makes schooling any different than life experience? involvement in circumstance any different than a classroom? I have schooling. But I can assure you that spending those hours in the classroom learning about the "realities of the field", taking test after test, involved and intrigued with my studies- didn't teach me even a small fraction of the things I have learned through life experience. I may not have my masters or my doctorate, so I may not be able to diagnose or prescribe. However I have received my bachelors in psychology with a minor in corrections, and I'll tell you? It was a waste of time. For people like you who think that you have the right to be bad mouthing an entire group of people who are out there trying to make a living helping others in their own ways? Shows one of the largest problems with the field of psychology/psychotherapy altogether. That problem is entitlement and delusions of grandeur once you receive your diplomas. It's more about you than it is about the client! I will receive my masters and doctorate some day. But while I finish schooling I choose to spend my time as a psychotherapist in Colorado helping people. Truly helping. so please reply! Bad mouth my post. Make yourself sound even more ignorant. Show the world that you are an entitled person who only cares about his/her recognition. Because psychotherapy is about helping others, not about YOU. And one last thing? That exam is harder than any I took in school. I dare you to take it WITHOUT HELP in a days time without studying for a month or more. I bet you can't pass it.
I think that what you're saying is awefully prejudice and extremely ignorant. What exactly makes schooling any different than life experience? involvement in circumstance any different than a classroom? I have schooling. But I can assure you that spending those hours in the classroom learning about the "realities of the field", taking test after test, involved and intrigued with my studies- didn't teach me even a small fraction of the things I have learned through life experience. I may not have my masters or my doctorate, so I may not be able to diagnose or prescribe. However I have received my bachelors in psychology with a minor in corrections, and I'll tell you? It was a waste of time. For people like you who think that you have the right to be bad mouthing an entire group of people who are out there trying to make a living helping others in their own ways? Shows one of the largest problems with the field of psychology/psychotherapy altogether. That problem is entitlement and delusions of grandeur once you receive your diplomas. It's more about you than it is about the client! I will receive my masters and doctorate some day. But while I finish schooling I choose to spend my time as a psychotherapist in Colorado helping people. Truly helping. so please reply! Bad mouth my post. Make yourself sound even more ignorant. Show the world that you are an entitled person who only cares about his/her recognition. Because psychotherapy is about helping others, not about YOU. And one last thing? That exam is harder than any I took in school. I dare you to take it WITHOUT HELP in a days time without studying for a month or more. I bet you can't pass it.
I think that what you're saying is awefully prejudice and extremely ignorant. What exactly makes schooling any different than life experience? involvement in circumstance any different than a classroom? I have schooling. But I can assure you that spending those hours in the classroom learning about the "realities of the field", taking test after test, involved and intrigued with my studies- didn't teach me even a small fraction of the things I have learned through life experience. I may not have my masters or my doctorate, so I may not be able to diagnose or prescribe. However I have received my bachelors in psychology with a minor in corrections, and I'll tell you? It was a waste of time. For people like you who think that you have the right to be bad mouthing an entire group of people who are out there trying to make a living helping others in their own ways? Shows one of the largest problems with the field of psychology/psychotherapy altogether. That problem is entitlement and delusions of grandeur once you receive your diplomas. It's more about you than it is about the client! I will receive my masters and doctorate some day. But while I finish schooling I choose to spend my time as a psychotherapist in Colorado helping people. Truly helping. so please reply! Bad mouth my post. Make yourself sound even more ignorant. Show the world that you are an entitled person who only cares about his/her recognition. Because psychotherapy is about helping others, not about YOU. And one last thing? That exam is harder than any I took in school. I dare you to take it WITHOUT HELP in a days time without studying for a month or more. I bet you can't pass it.
1. A bachelor's in psychology most certainly won't teach you anything about providing therapy, agreed! The graduate degrees are for specializing in therapy practice, etc.
Here's the thing: I probably thought the same way you did before I went to grad school. "I can help people without training!" Well, yes, and you can also do damage without even realizing it without the proper training and guidelines to practice within. Maybe you'd do "therapy" out of your own home, inviting a host of risks. Maybe you'd self-disclose so much about your life that you'd dissolve any professional boundaries and clients would be confused about your relationship and why they're paying you to be friends. Maybe clients would want to date you and you'd be okay with that, even though you have more power and it would be abusive and exploitative. Ethics is something you do learn with training and schooling, and it's not something I learned from my own life experiences at all. My concern is that you might be well-intentioned, but with poor ethics because you simply don't know them, thus unintentionally causing harm. And what if your client is suicidal, so you go out of your way to drive him/her to the hospital and take care of him/her...now your client calls you every day; now you have some serious boundary issues that you don't know how to handle because you didn't practice ethically. There are a whole host of issues that could arise because you don't have any rules or guidelines to practice within. It's risky for both you and your client, and this is what I learned from graduate school and training that I couldn't get from "life experience."
2. Entitlement and grandeur: I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. After pursuing graduate degrees and getting 5+ years of training before practicing independently (and still practicing within strict guidelines), we have a right to protect the profession from people who want to charge the same thing after zero training. I think it's fair that we can be called psychologists and those who haven't had the training can't. Otherwise, we would have thousands upon thousands of people calling themselves "psychologists," charging the same thing, practicing "therapy" without any ethics or guidelines to protect themselves or clients from harm, thus leading to harm..it would be the downfall of the entire profession, and many people would be harmed. I shudder at that thought. We got the training because we value the profession and value the foundation it was built upon...years and years of research, training, and learnings over several decades distilled into a graduate degree so that we can be most effective at helping others, using well-researched/well-thought out principles and theories to guide us. To want to call oneself a therapist or psychologist without that foundation is spitting in the face of those who did years of research and wrote about theories to make therapists more effective.
If you want to be a spiritual advisor/shaman and get that training from spiritual mentors, by all means, that would be a good alternative that wouldn't infringe on the field of psychology/therapy. You'd still have some of the same ethical risks, but it's also a way to help people within a particular framework (spiritual advisor, etc.), which you could do. In fact, I know a social worker who went on a few vision quests and had that training, and I respect her. I also know a spiritual teacher who (aside from starting a non-profit) had years of one-on-one training/mentorship in meditation/self-awareness work, is truly gifted as a teacher/guide, and I deeply respect him. He practices his own kind of spiritual guidance, and that's fine. It's in a completely separate area than psychology/therapy, but I want to note, again, even these individuals had specialized training, and didn't just go out and try to "help people" without knowing themselves and their own limitations. Main point being: training is important, regardless of the field/profession.
Life experience certainly helps with empathy and perspective when working with clients, but isn't enough to practice ethically and effectively, unfortunately. It's also the expertise that comes with training.
This is a terrible comparison. Psychology and anything associated is about mental health. Not about physical ailments. No, you couldn't call yourself any of those because you get sick. Obviously. However if you have gained the knowledge to guide others, and give support in An ETHICAL WAY (thank you for the criticism bull), then I think that it is only fair that one be able to be titled a psychotherapist. If you learned all necessary lessons and we're able to perform the same tasks as a doctor in the same ways a typical doctor would perform them? Even if you or they learned those things from being sick so often? Then I feel it is common sense that that person should be able to consider themselves a doctor!! My entire point with my reply, is that a piece of paper and a registration with the state, a license number and a business with your name on the door, does not add any credibility to your capabilities, nor your understanding. It is your learning, whether it be through school, life experience or bill nye that is what is important.lmaoooo i get sick a lot, can i call myself a nurse or medical doctor from my life experience?
Yes theyWait
Wait so master's and graduate degree holders DON'T have life experience? Your point is that a therapist works for others and not themselves. Those who believe that just relying on life experience are doing a disservice to their clients by not learning as much as you can and widening your toolbox of techniques to include as many ebps/treatments/interventions as possible (which includes proper supervision by someone more experienced). As much as I've learned being one of the underserved groups I hope to serve in the future, that doesn't mean I know everything or I don't have some important hang-ups to dispel.
Does this mean if you meet a client you can't help you won't encourage them to see A reputable licencensed therapist who can do a more effective job than you? Because that reeks of a big ego rather than altruism.
Psychology and anything associated is about mental health. Not about physical ailments.
My entire point with my reply, is that a piece of paper and a registration with the state, a license number and a business with your name on the door, does not add any credibility to your capabilities, nor your understanding.
Yes those people do have life experience. What I meant to convey is that I felt that if you have gone through similar things and learned the best ways of dealing with those things, then that would make you just as qualified to address them as someone who has learned those things through schooling. Maybe even more qualified, granted there are many things (such as the points that foreverbull pointed out) like ethics and the proper relationship that one has with their clients, or dsm criteria, etc that would also need to be present for said person to be as qualified. I just don't think that one should HAVE TO HAVE GONE TO SCHOOL AND FOLLOW THE SAME NORM THAT EVERYONE ON HERE IS SO UP IN ARMS ABOUT. if a person can do the job just as well, does it matter how they got their training?
See, the problem here is that you're asking and answering only some of the right questions. It's not simply a matter of, "Can I learn all the same stuff through life experience that someone would learn through a traditional didactic and experiential graduate education in clinical/counseling psychology?" That's part of the equation, but questions of equal or greater importance are, "What don't I know?" and "What don't I know that I don't know?" Then, there are other questions that spring from these more general questions, especially "What harm could come from not knowing these things and not knowing that I don't know them?" Finally, consider this, whose needs are being served here by you conducting clinical services, but without the formal requisite training? Is this about the clients' needs or about your needs to feel fulfilled or make a living, but without having to go through all the work and training that everyone else in the field does?Yes those people do have life experience. What I meant to convey is that I felt that if you have gone through similar things and learned the best ways of dealing with those things, then that would make you just as qualified to address them as someone who has learned those things through schooling. Maybe even more qualified, granted there are many things (such as the points that foreverbull pointed out) like ethics and the proper relationship that one has with their clients, or dsm criteria, etc that would also need to be present for said person to be as qualified. I just don't think that one should HAVE TO HAVE GONE TO SCHOOL AND FOLLOW THE SAME NORM THAT EVERYONE ON HERE IS SO UP IN ARMS ABOUT. if a person can do the job just as well, does it matter how they got their training?!
Yes they
Yes those people do have life experience. What I meant to convey is that I felt that if you have gone through similar things and learned the best ways of dealing with those things, then that would make you just as qualified to address them as someone who has learned those things through schooling. Maybe even more qualified, granted there are many things (such as the points that foreverbull pointed out) like ethics and the proper relationship that one has with their clients, or dsm criteria, etc that would also need to be present for said person to be as qualified. I just don't think that one should HAVE TO HAVE GONE TO SCHOOL AND FOLLOW THE SAME NORM THAT EVERYONE ON HERE IS SO UP IN ARMS ABOUT. if a person can do the job just as well, does it matter how they got their training?!
Yes they
Very well put. I agree with your thoughts about ethics. Wholeheartedly. If anything, this would be the biggest issue as far as using life experience as credentials. I believe it would be more geared towards feeling a personal obligation or desire to intervene or assist in ways that would be extremely inappropriate and totally against all codes of ethics. That would be a fine line and a hard one to walk. I appreciate your outlook in that. I have nothing negative to say about your reply whatsoever, I appreciate your constructive criticism and opinion. In regards to your statement about psychologists and psychotherapists in defining roles, I think I understand your viewpoint... Psychologists, (at least in my own mind) are trained and carry a certain weighty and respectable role versus psychotherapists. To me, psychotherapists are not psychiatrists, psychologists or LPC's. They are more spiritually guided and directed, opinion based versus DSM defining with a goal of labelling and seeking a diagnoses for an inficudual. Maybe that comes from my being in Colorado. Who knows.
Life experience tells you how you got better. It does not tell you how to help others get better. Other people are different from you. People who hold onto the idea that the stuff that helps them is the stuff that helps everyone are a PITA to train. It's a shortsighted, narrow, egotistical, vain approach.