UNLV Cheating Scandal

[NVDental]

May 26, 2006
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

Dental student forgery alleged

Sources say faculty computer password breached at UNLV

By K.C. HOWARD
REVIEW-JOURNAL
Ten members of UNLV's first graduating class from the dental school have been accused of forging faculty signatures electronically on numerous documents, including patient records, according to sources with direct knowledge of the incidents.

The students, whom sources declined to identify, used the computer password belonging to a part-time faculty member to sign off on patient treatment plans, diagnoses and treatment notes, which describe how the students treated the patient and future care.

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The sources include higher education officials not authorized to discuss the incidents and those who still work or take classes at the Shadow Lane campus. Those within the campus community spoke to the Review-Journal on condition of anonymity because they feared retaliation from the administration.

A faculty member is always present while students work on patients and is required to approve electronically almost every aspect of care. The computer password allows faculty to note these approvals. The faculty member whose computer password was accessed was unaware of the breach.

One faculty member said the students involved were talented, but sheer laziness had prompted them to self-approve their work rather than seek out the proper faculty for a signature. At no time were patients in danger, he said.

Before graduation, students' charts were audited to make sure they received all the necessary approvals for their work.

The university discovered the falsified records in late April when officials noticed that the faculty member's code had been used to sign off on notes and procedures on days he wasn't working.

"They basically falsified patient records, and they got caught," one source said.

The students then were allowed to graduate May 13, along with 61 of their peers, but their diplomas have been put on hold. Their punishment is still under consideration by the dean.

An honors council made up of students, faculty advisors and the associate dean of student affairs held a hearing last week on the incidents and recommended disciplinary procedures to the dean. The council suggested requiring the 10 students to redo a year of school. Members also suggested alternative sanctions including, some sources said, a fine to be paid to a scholarship fund and 1,000 hours of community service.

Richard Linstrom, general counsel to UNLV, declined to confirm or deny any allegations against the students. He and other higher education officials cited the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, which protects students' privacy, and the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, which protects patients' rights to privacy.

The dental school is searching for a dean to replace Patrick Ferrillo, who starts July 1 as dean of the University of the Pacific in California.

The Review-Journal called Richard Carr, interim dean of the UNLV dental school, for comment. He had Linstrom return the call.

"I have been assured that there has been no compromise of, or issues regarding, the actual care given to patients by supervised dental students at the UNLV School of Dental Medicine," Linstrom said in a written statement.

Chancellor Jim Rogers said the episode constitutes a personnel matter.

"There's been no attempt to hide anything going on, but it's a totally internal problem and it will be resolved by the students in student discipline, and I think that's what already happened, but I can't give you the information," he said.

Students on campus this week said they knew little about the controversy.

"It's just a big question mark," said Eric Tobler, 27, a third-year dental student.

Tobler said faculty members were good at making themselves available for the "tons" of signatures they provide for students' clinical work.

"I think we're disappointed it happened," he said, adding that others feel bad for the 10 students. "At the same time, they brought it on themselves. It was a stupid mistake."

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[Hopin']

I was wondering as to why all this happens in a Dental school. First it was UMDNJ and now its UNLV.
I mean... I've never heard such a thing for other professional schools.

 

[Yellow Snow]

And it sounds like this goes on at many schools across the country on a smaller scale. I definently think they should be made to retake a year. They are going to go out there and charge people alot of $$ for their services when they may not have even fulfilled the minimum procedures set by the dental school/licensing auth.? Whether or not they are actually competent or not, its an arrogant slap in the face to their future patients.

 

[DrRob]

We had a Scandal also at Marquette in 2002. Someone stole a copy of the previous years exam and the exam was identical. This could have been avoided if the faculty weren't to lazy to make a new test. The exam was in some ridicoulous TMJ disorder class given to justify paying an old man.

 

[Frank Cavitation]

We had a Scandal also at Marquette in 2002. Someone stole a copy of the previous years exam and the exam was identical. This could have been avoided if the faculty weren't to lazy to make a new test. The exam was in some ridicoulous TMJ disorder class given to justify paying an old man.

I'll have to agree that stealing is clearly wrong... but is it actually worse than writing an exam, memorizing the questions, then telling friends in a lower year? That sort of thing is rampant at my school due to lazy instructors who rarely change the questions.

 

[Dental916]

lies, cheating, scandals....in dental school...more like a hollywood story...but its very true and occurs everywhere in all professional schools...some just get caught and some don't.

 

[1992Corolla]

I can't wait to start dental school and cheat my brains out!



Maybe I should change my sig...I know Brian is reading this.


werd.

 

[Lostinbul]

I can't wait to start dental school and cheat my brains out!



Maybe I should change my sig...I know Brian is reading this.


werd.

So is Rob

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

We had a Scandal also at Marquette in 2002. Someone stole a copy of the previous years exam and the exam was identical. This could have been avoided if the faculty weren't to lazy to make a new test. The exam was in some ridicoulous TMJ disorder class given to justify paying an old man.

Good ol' Ziebs...

 

[ItsGavinC]

Some of our UNLV SDNers were implicated in this. I'm wondering if they'll comment or not.

I've heard the fine was $75,000 and community service, or the option of repeating 3rd and 4th years. Just what I've heard through the grapevine.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

Some of our UNLV SDNers were implicated in this. I'm wondering if they'll comment or not.

I've heard the fine was $75,000 and community service, or the option of repeating 3rd and 4th years. Just what I've heard through the grapevine.

My goodness that is a steep ass fine. Well I guess its better than not graduating at all.

Think about it: $75k fine--> take a loan--> Probably above 8%--> 30 years to pay back bec of other obligations--> total cost $195,000

 

[Firm]

They should be expelled! If that was done at my school, we would have been expelled. They should at least have to repeat the 3rd and 4th year. They forged faculty signatures in regards to patient care. Outrageous!

 

[QCkid]

I was wondering as to why all this happens in a Dental school. First it was UMDNJ and now its UNLV.
I mean... I've never heard such a thing for other professional schools.

Its because in D-school we spend our clinical years actually performing all of the procedures that we will be doing in private practice. Their is no other type of profession where this happens. This is why their is very tight control of the procedural process in the clinic. In fact, I would say that getting signitures and getting faculty to come over and give you the o.k. to go forward constitues a large portion of chairside time in the clinic.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

I just remembered something. we were told here at NYU that if we work on a patient without a start signature from a faculty or not get the signatures during the procedure, the patient can sue us for assault and battery.

Not only that, but they said the state would get involved for "practicing dentistry without a license"

I wonder if the state of NJ and NV will get invloved and have the patient's been informed of what has happened?

 

[1992Corolla]

UNLV is covering their arse. This could lead to multiple lawsuits...maybe I should become a lawyer...then run for VP...

 

[Col Sanders]

I just remembered something. we were told here at NYU that if we work on a patient without a start signature from a faculty or not get the signatures during the procedure, the patient can sue us for assault and battery.

Not only that, but they said the state would get involved for "practicing dentistry without a license"

I wonder if the state of NJ and NV will get invloved and have the patient's been informed of what has happened?

Just to clear up some misconceptions. The majority (possibly all) offenses were during the confusing and new chart audit procedures and never occurred during patient care, to get a start check or practice without a license. I do think they should punished but taking each of their firstborn sons and sacrificing them to the dental gods is a little harsh.

 

[Ruprick]

Some of our UNLV SDNers were implicated in this. I'm wondering if they'll comment or not.

I've heard the fine was $75,000 and community service, or the option of repeating 3rd and 4th years. Just what I've heard through the grapevine.

How do you know who was implicated? All of the articles I read had no names, etc.

 

[peacenotwar99]

How do you know who was implicated? All of the articles I read had no names, etc.

hahaha, dirty rotten scoundrels is the ****

 

[ItsGavinC]

I just remembered something. we were told here at NYU that if we work on a patient without a start signature from a faculty or not get the signatures during the procedure, the patient can sue us for assault and battery.

Not only that, but they said the state would get involved for "practicing dentistry without a license"

I wonder if the state of NJ and NV will get invloved and have the patient's been informed of what has happened?

It's a diffferent situation, I believe. The UNLV students didn't do any procedures without authorization, they just made up procedures and stated they did them. This didn't affect patients in a directly negative manner. That's my understanding of it anyway.

 

[ItsGavinC]

How do you know who was implicated? All of the articles I read had no names, etc.

I have friends at UNLV who mentioned that a couple of the guys are SDNers. I don't have any inside information, that's for sure.

 

[groundhog]

It's a diffferent situation, I believe. The UNLV students didn't do any procedures without authorization, they just made up procedures and stated they did them. This didn't affect patients in a directly negative manner. That's my understanding of it anyway.

Not much different from those health care professionals (including some DDS/DMD's) who have ended up in the big house for insurance fraud (a felony). But still, as Vice President Cheney said at a recent graduation ceremony, "America is the country of second chances." He admitted he was asked to leave and not come back by Yale but was allowed to move on, graduate from the University of Wyoming, and find a successful career in the political arena. Temptation always looms. Grifters say that the vast majority of their scams are successful because the marks themselves are too willing to compromise on their moral and and ethical principles when presented with the shady deals.

 

[Sprgrover]

...I've heard the fine was $75,000 and community service, or the option of repeating 3rd and 4th years. Just what I've heard through the grapevine.

Oh boy, either way that's a painful price - but better than expulsion.

 

[SuperTrooper]

I've heard the fine was $75,000 and community service, or the option of repeating 3rd and 4th years. Just what I've heard through the grapevine.

You can buy your way out of lying and cheating with $75,000? That's ridiculous if it's true.

 

[QCkid]

It's a diffferent situation, I believe. The UNLV students didn't do any procedures without authorization, they just made up procedures and stated they did them. This didn't affect patients in a directly negative manner. That's my understanding of it anyway.

pheeewwww.... well thats a load off of my mind!! Here I was thinking that they had done something wrong, that they cheated. It turns out all they did was some little inconsequential thing like make up procedures and then take credit for them. Well shoot, lets give a little slap on the wrist and pat on the butt and send em on their way. That ought to teach em.

 

[rocknightmare]

pheeewwww.... well thats a load off of my mind!! Here I was thinking that they had done something wrong, that they cheated. It turns out all they did was some little inconsequential thing like make up procedures and then take credit for them. Well shoot, lets give a little slap on the wrist and pat on the butt and send em on their way. That ought to teach em.

i totally agree they didnt realize what they were doing was wrong, it was just a computer glich

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

You can buy your way out of lying and cheating with $75,000? That's ridiculous if it's true.

Welcome to the real world...

 

[NVDental]

UNLV students accused of forgery to receive degrees

By K.C. HOWARD
©2006 REVIEW-JOURNAL

The 10 UNLV dental school students who are alleged to have forged faculty signatures on university documents, including patient records, were each ordered to perform 1,500 hours of community service and will receive their degrees, higher education sources said.

The certification of the students was criticized by some members of the local dental community, who said the students, part of the first graduating class of dentists, committed serious professional and ethical violations and are unfit to practice.

Chancellor Jim Rogers said reports that students were caught using the computer password belonging to a part-time faculty member to sign off on patient treatment plans, diagnoses and other work concerned him.

"If you cheat on something little, you sure as hell will cheat on something big. I'm concerned about that sort of mentality being involved in any professional school," Rogers said Friday.

Students are required to have almost every aspect of patient health care approved by supervising faculty.

The scandal became public last month after several anonymous sources with direct knowledge of the students' actions confirmed the university allowed the 10 students to walk in the May commencement ceremony. The sources asked to remain anonymous because they still worked or took classes at the school and feared retaliation from the administration.

They said the students' diplomas were withheld while the university determined the appropriate action.

An honors council, composed of students, faculty advisers and the associate dean of student affairs, investigated the matter. In May, they recommended to interim Dean Richard Carr the students redo a year of school. As an alternative, they suggested the students perform 1,000 hours of community service and pay a fine.

Sources said Carr last week required the students to perform 1,500 hours of community service in oral health over a period of five years, which works out to be about 188 eight-hour work days.

It was unclear how the university planned to enforce the punishment and whether transcripts would be put on hold until the hours were completed.

Board of Regents Chairman Bret Whipple said he received a call from the father of one of the accused students who thought the punishment too extreme because his son had done all of his work but forged the approving signature.

Whipple said he tried to persuade the family not to appeal the dean's decision, which he said was less extreme than what the honors council suggested.

Whipple said he had received calls from dentists who thought the punishment was too lenient.

"It's certainly not a positive," Whipple said of the students' acts. "But it's a positive in the fact that (school officials are) trying to address it. It's unfortunate that they are the first class; at the same time, it's just a small few."

Officials at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, citing federal laws that protect students' identities, have declined to confirm or deny the allegations against the students. They denied a records request the Review-Journal filed to obtain the number of students involved, their names and the sanctions.

Carr defended the first graduating class and its academic and professional standards.

"I would put my reputation on the line for our graduates," he said.

The UNLV School of Dental Medicine stands behind the dentists it certifies, and the public has no reason to be concerned about the quality of graduates, he said.

The school is accredited by the American Dental Association. Carr said the school received commendation for its student affairs and admission practices and its information technology.

He said matters of academic impropriety are handled internally by the school and do not affect accreditation status.

Rogers said he is worried about the public's perception of the professional school and wants the system's chief attorney to look into whether appropriate actions were taken. He was unavailable to confirm Monday whether he had started an investigation.

The dental school is expected to be a big part of Rogers' pet project, the proposed health sciences center. It needs millions of dollars in investments from state and private entities in the upcoming years, and Rogers said he wants to ensure the dental school is not graduating dentists who have questionable morals.

"I'm not casting any stones or making any accusations, but I can tell you at the moment I'm not satisfied," Rogers said.

The Southern Nevada Dental Society has received several calls from members concerned about whether professional standards and ethics were violated, said Robert Anderson, the society's executive director.

No consensus existed among callers on how the school should handle the matter, he said.

Members are cognizant that this is the first class and that there is a learning curve, he said.

"We haven't had issues like this come up before," he said.

Some members of the local dental community were more specific about what they believe the repercussions should be, arguing the 10 graduates are unethical and unfit to work on patients' mouths.

"I would never be associated with this school," said Frank Drongowski, a maxillofacial surgeon who teaches part time at Louisiana State University and practices part time in Southern Nevada.

He said he was shocked when he heard about students cheating from instructors at UNLV's dental school. He said the students should have had to repeat a year at least.

Typically in dental school, "everything has to be off checked by an instructor, and that's why this issue is so serious," he said. "You have students who think they're above that and are essentially working without an instructor being involved."

UNLV officials said 69 of the 71 students who made up the first graduating class took the licensing exam, the Western Regional Boards, this spring. Eighty-six percent passed, an exceptionally high number for a new school, Carr said.

Sources said at least three of the 10 students were known to have passed the exam, and one of them has left the state to do a residency program.

"Putting people's teeth in the hands of people who don't have the ability to do the right thing," said Woodrow Wagner, a retired dentist, who practiced in Las Vegas for 40 years, "I'm kind of ashamed."

 

[Yah-E]

Sources said at least three of the 10 students were known to have passed the exam, and one of them has left the state to do a residency program.

Hmmm....wonder who this is?

All I have to say is, these 10 mofos are REALLY lucky! I'm glad for them as they can move on now, but boy were they unfortunate to have such light consequences especially for that one person who "matched" into a residency program.

 

[Yah-E]

Some of our UNLV SDNers were implicated in this. I'm wondering if they'll comment or not.

C'mon G! You really think any person(s) who were involved in this scandel will chat about it here? Of course not! Their lawyers probably told them not to say or type anything, anywhere!

I heard the news from my good friends at UNLV's first graduating class as well. They mentioned several names and lets just say I was not only disappointed, but shocked!

 

[Col Sanders]

Gotta love the LVRJ!!!

 

[nvpremolar]

I just wanted everyone to know that what is happening at our dental school is not representative of all of the students. The majority of us believe that the administration is showing way more sympathy than they should. Those involved have only been punished with 1500 community service hours and a public apology to the students and faculty at UNLV. The dental school has been publically humiliated and all of the hard work the rest of us are putting in to our careers now seems ilegitimate to the public in Las Vegas. We are as dissapointed as everyone else for the decisions that our future colleages made.

 

[aphistis]

I just wanted everyone to know that what is happening at our dental school is not representative of all of the students. The majority of us believe that the administration is showing way more sympathy than they should. Those involved have only been punished with 1500 community service hours and a public apology to the students and faculty at UNLV. The dental school has been publically humiliated and all of the hard work the rest of us are putting in to our careers now seems ilegitimate to the public in Las Vegas. We are as dissapointed as everyone else for the decisions that our future colleages made.

Thanks for posting.

My question is, how are they going to enforce this? Personally, if someone cheated their way to dental school graduation, I'd love to see at least one of them stuck trying to fit 1500 hours of community service into an OMFS residency on top of their resident duties (and I have no sympathy for them whatsoever--if they end up in trouble with their residency, well, isn't that just too darned bad?), but what if they don't? Will they lose their license? Have their diploma rescinded? Something else?

I'm just concerned that this punishment, when push comes to shove, isn't going to end up having any teeth.

 

[unlvdmd]

Funny you say it doesn't have "any teeth" because our local paper had a political cartoon with a goofy guy holding his UNLV SODM diploma. In the background 2 people are talking-- One says "the punishment lacked teeth," the other guy says "A toothless dental school... thats not good."

I agree with the above UNLV poster. We are so horrified that this is putting our ENTIRE school on the plank for the moment being. That punishment is a joke. But the sad thing is the honors committee wanted a harsher punishment but the "powers that be" found a way to NOT give it them. Very strange.

 

[NVDental]

Looks like the investigation will continue. Here is what was posted in the newspaper this morning.

Jun. 16, 2006
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

UNLV DENTAL SCHOOL: Cheating scandal probed

Chancellor sets up his own review

By SEAN WHALEY
REVIEW-JOURNAL CAPITAL BUREAU

"I don't want any accusations that we whitewashed this or let anyone get away.''
JIM ROGERS
UNIVERSITY SYSTEM CHANCELLOR


CARSON CITY -- University system Chancellor Jim Rogers has launched his own inquiry into a cheating scandal at the UNLV dental school, giving his staff a few days to investigate and report the findings.

"In my mind, they are pretty serious issues and I just want to see exactly what happened," Rogers said. "I was not informed as it was happening and that makes me very uncomfortable.

"I want the public to feel as comfortable as it can with this thing," Rogers said. "I don't want any accusations that we whitewashed this or let anyone get away."

When Deputy Chief Counsel Bart Patterson completes his review, which has been under way for three days, Rogers said he will release the results to the Board of Regents and the public. The report is expected by June 23.

"We'll have full disclosure," he said. "Whatever happens, happens."

The UNLV dental school determined that 10 members of its first graduating class of 71 students were caught using the computer password of a part-time faculty member to sign off on their own patient treatment plans, diagnoses and other work. Typically, everything has to checked off by an instructor.

An honors council made up of students, faculty advisers and the associate dean of student affairs investigated the matter. In May, they recommended to interim Dean Richard Carr that the students redo a year of school. As an alternative, they suggested that the students perform 1,000 hours of community service and pay a fine.

Sources said Carr last week required the students to perform 1,500 hours of community service in oral health over a period of five years. The students, so far not named publicly, were allowed to graduate.

The acts were deemed to be violations of the honor code in the School of Dental Medicine.

Regents Chairman Brett Whipple said the board will wait to see what Rogers' investigation turns up before weighing in on the issue.

"I'm in a wait-and-see mode at this point," he said.

But a number of regents have expressed concerns that they were not notified earlier of the incident, Whipple said.

Rogers said he doesn't know what, if any, further actions might be taken against the students if the investigation finds that the punishment levied so far is inadequate.

"Nobody's explained that to me yet, but we'll find out," he said.

In a memo to regents sent Thursday, Rogers said: "I understand that certain aspects of this matter, including the names of the students, may not be disclosed because of federal law. However, within the bounds of compliance with the applicable law, I have directed Bart to make his report as complete and detailed as possible. We will tell you every fact of what occurred, when it occurred, what judgments were made and why. There will be no attempt to gloss over any details of this matter in any fashion."

Executive Vice Chancellor Dan Klaich said the chancellor and regents want to see whether this is an isolated incident. "But we don't want to prejudge what Bart will find," he said. "It could be that the incident was handled appropriately."

Regardless, the board and chancellor should have been informed earlier of the investigation, Klaich said. "The communication was not perfect on this one," he said.

At least one outside dental organization is weighing in on the issue, criticizing the handling of the original investigation for not being more concerned with the risk to the public.

Joe Rossa, chief staff executive and legal counsel for the North East Regional Board of Dental Examiners in Silver Spring, Md., said in a prepared statement: "It's amazing that UNLV has suggested that this is merely an internal problem to be dealt with primarily by the students. Why pass the buck? It's like having the inmates control the asylum. Perhaps it's time for those in the highest leadership positions to assume their responsibility in these issues."

 

[ObviousGuy]

Any names yet? I want names!

Would you want to go to a dentist with a character such as this? Whocares if they did the procedure right or not...the character flaw is the one that makes me wonder if i want them to do a root canal on me...

 

[syn_apse]

i assumed their names were common knowledge by now.. apparently not?

 

[sweetgemini]

i assumed their names were common knowledge by now.. apparently not?

i can put the names of all ten of them here, i just need to know i won't get banned for it.

 

[MoBro]

i can put the names of all ten of them here, i just need to know i won't get banned for it.

And why exactly would you even WANT to do that? So that you can condemn these people to all the rumors, accusations, and assumptions that are floating around about things that happened? Would you want YOUR name associated with something you didn't do?

The fact of the matter is, a lot of what is being said, particularly by the media, is simply untrue, at least as the evidence stands now. As was already pointed out by a member here (though quickly ignored, perhaps because its more fun to rail on about a "scandal" than listen to the less news worthy truth), the incident did NOT involve approving treatments, assigning grades, or falsifying competencies. Basically, it had nothing to do with patients or their treatment at all.

Supposedly, this all occured during a chart auditing procedure, where students had to go back through old records and make changes that the school recently decided to be necessary. This was FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE SCHOOL, and the records that it keeps. Performing a chart audit does not benefit the student in any way, and has nothing to do with the patients receiving care without faculty supervision and approval. The patients at this point had ALREADY RECEIVED appropriate care, under the appropriate supervision, and completed with the appropriate authorizations.

In fact, it is believed that a good number of those involved, perhaps a majority even, were under the belief that the login information was actually given out, and that they WERE USING IT WITH FACULTY PERMISSION. Not too hard to believe considering the monumental task before them. So what is THEIR crime? Cheating? Forgery? Academic dishonesty? No, their crime is simply stupidity. They proceded under an assumption without full knowledge and checking the facts first, and it got them in trouble. If I'm not mistaken, that is the same exact thing a lot of YOU are doing right now, proceeding under assumptions without the facts at hand. And you are willing to destroy the careers of those involved over it, something they've worked their entire lives to achieve? Why? Will you feel better about yourself to see others suffer?

Another big misconception here is what these individuals received as punishment. 1500 hours community service? Yep. Public apologies? Yep. Is that the end of it? Not by a long shot! There is more to the punishment that was doled out, worst of all being a letter indicating the charge of "academic dishonesty" to be included in their permanent record. Their PERMANENT RECORD! People claim outrage that these students still got diplomas (conditionally I might ad, assuming they complete all the things required as pennance). They may as well NOT given them diplomas, because a letter charging academic dishonesty may very well keep these individuals from getting licensed or ever finding jobs in the dental field.

Four years of dental school, and nearly $200,000 in loan debt...possibly all for nothing for these people. I'm all for punishment, but considering the facts (as the stand now) about what happened, I can't justify taking away everything they've worked for and paid for. If these individuals can't get licensed or practice dentistry, that amount of loan debt is financial disaster plain and simple. If you find yourself in over your head with house payments, or car payments, you can sell a house, or a car. You can't sell an education. They are stuck with this debt for as long as it exists. Lets not forget that there are families involved her as well, wives and children. They may never see financial freedom for the rest of their lives. And people have the nerve to say the punishment was TOO LENIENT? Hell, repeating a year or two would have been GOOD NEWS for them. Instead, they have this to haunt them now forever. Forever. That's a long time for a mistake to follow you, especially for those that thought their actions were given the go-ahead by faculty.

So all ye who are without sin, continue casting those stones, because apparently there are a lot of you who have never done anything wrong. Or maybe you should just reserve your judgement until you actually know what happened. Aw, but that's not quite as fun as riding that high horse that a lot of your are on is it?

PS- No, I am not one of those who was involved.

 

[ObviousGuy]

So is someone gonna post the names or what?

 

[syn_apse]

They have this to haunt them now forever. Forever.

they deserved a far worse punishment than they got
and i lost all respect for UNLV for not giving it to them

 

[MoBro]

they deserved a far worse punishment than they got
and i lost all respect for UNLV for not giving it to them

And are you the person with all the facts about what happened? Do you know who was knowingly involved an who wasn't? Or are you just another that believes everything they read in the newspaper? Even amongst a good number of faculty and students, rumors run rampant. So if you were the one to decide their punishment, what would it be, and what would you base it on? An article? An editorial? What some guy who is apparently "in the know" told you? I'm sure your first hand knowledge of the incident must be vast, considering YOU know exactly what they deserve.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

Even amongst a good number of faculty and students, rumors run rampant.

I find that being in Dental school is like being in highschool all over.

Same class for 4 years, constant rumors, bullies againist the dorks, who is having sex with who...its endless!!!!

 

[MoBro]

I find that being in Dental school is like being in highschool all over.

Same class for 4 years, constant rumors, bullies againist the dorks, who is having sex with who...its endless!!!!

Yes, very similar, except that now, rumors can damage careers and families, as opposed to just hurting feelings. There are also a number of relatives at the dental school, people with the same last name. Releasing names has the potential to cause problems for those people too. People remember "scandal" and last name "______", it won't really matter that it happened to be the completely uninvolved and innocent brother, or sister, or husband/wife of ______ (yes, we have married couples going to school together).

 

[NVDental]

Lets not forget that there are families involved her as well, wives and children. They may never see financial freedom for the rest of their lives.

This statement is completely irrevelant. There is an old saying, " Let the punishment fit the crime!" (Not, "Let the punishment fit the crime, unless the perpetrator has a wife a kids).

I think that the investigation is a good idea, so that there is a 3rd party to disclose the facts and to determine if the punishment is appropriate. Working as health professionals is a privilege, as we hold the public's trust, therefore the public has a right to know about what types of improprieties occured. Personally, if it was just a matter of a chart audit, I would even like to know what types of changes were made, since the charts are a medical/legal document. Information should be added in a timely manner to ensure both reliability and accuracy. If the charts are inaccurate, then these actions could potentially harm patients in the future.

 

[Col Sanders]

And why exactly would you even WANT to do that? So that you can condemn these people to all the rumors, accusations, and assumptions that are floating around about things that happened? Would you want YOUR name associated with something you didn't do?

The fact of the matter is, a lot of what is being said, particularly by the media, is simply untrue, at least as the evidence stands now. As was already pointed out by a member here (though quickly ignored, perhaps because its more fun to rail on about a "scandal" than listen to the less news worthy truth), the incident did NOT involve approving treatments, assigning grades, or falsifying competencies. Basically, it had nothing to do with patients or their treatment at all.

Supposedly, this all occured during a chart auditing procedure, where students had to go back through old records and make changes that the school recently decided to be necessary. This was FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE SCHOOL, and the records that it keeps. Performing a chart audit does not benefit the student in any way, and has nothing to do with the patients receiving care without faculty supervision and approval. The patients at this point had ALREADY RECEIVED appropriate care, under the appropriate supervision, and completed with the appropriate authorizations.

In fact, it is believed that a good number of those involved, perhaps a majority even, were under the belief that the login information was actually given out, and that they WERE USING IT WITH FACULTY PERMISSION. Not too hard to believe considering the monumental task before them. So what is THEIR crime? Cheating? Forgery? Academic dishonesty? No, their crime is simply stupidity. They proceded under an assumption without full knowledge and checking the facts first, and it got them in trouble. If I'm not mistaken, that is the same exact thing a lot of YOU are doing right now, proceeding under assumptions without the facts at hand. And you are willing to destroy the careers of those involved over it, something they've worked their entire lives to achieve? Why? Will you feel better about yourself to see others suffer?

Another big misconception here is what these individuals received as punishment. 1500 hours community service? Yep. Public apologies? Yep. Is that the end of it? Not by a long shot! There is more to the punishment that was doled out, worst of all being a letter indicating the charge of "academic dishonesty" to be included in their permanent record. Their PERMANENT RECORD! People claim outrage that these students still got diplomas (conditionally I might ad, assuming they complete all the things required as pennance). They may as well NOT given them diplomas, because a letter charging academic dishonesty may very well keep these individuals from getting licensed or ever finding jobs in the dental field.

Four years of dental school, and nearly $200,000 in loan debt...possibly all for nothing for these people. I'm all for punishment, but considering the facts (as the stand now) about what happened, I can't justify taking away everything they've worked for and paid for. If these individuals can't get licensed or practice dentistry, that amount of loan debt is financial disaster plain and simple. If you find yourself in over your head with house payments, or car payments, you can sell a house, or a car. You can't sell an education. They are stuck with this debt for as long as it exists. Lets not forget that there are families involved her as well, wives and children. They may never see financial freedom for the rest of their lives. And people have the nerve to say the punishment was TOO LENIENT? Hell, repeating a year or two would have been GOOD NEWS for them. Instead, they have this to haunt them now forever. Forever. That's a long time for a mistake to follow you, especially for those that thought their actions were given the go-ahead by faculty.

So all ye who are without sin, continue casting those stones, because apparently there are a lot of you who have never done anything wrong. Or maybe you should just reserve your judgement until you actually know what happened. Aw, but that's not quite as fun as riding that high horse that a lot of your are on is it?

PS- No, I am not one of those who was involved.

Well said, I have been wanting to write a post much like this, but didnt want to become too involved, very few know what really is going on as evidenced by their posts. This is the first post that has presented the truth. I can understand why everyone is so harsh, the media and some posts have made it look like these students were terrorists. However, to claim they deserved more punishment is pompous and ignorant. You have multiple highly educated, successful, and prominent dental educators who mulled for weeks over what to do. They noted the fact that these acts were dishonest at worst and brainless at best. They recognized that they all were first time offenses. Everyone of these students honestly completed every competency, class, board exam, and faithfully attended every required class or clinic session required for graduation. Each was competent to practice dentistry by the standards of the school. All but one passed the WREB. A few are attending residencies, and many have families to provide for. Yes it was out of character and yes they were stupid, but I dont know anyone in the world that hasn't done something out of character or stupid. I believe the punishment to be harsh but fair. Each will have a letter explaing the discretion and punishment, delivered with their transcripts to the state boards they apply to. Most likely they will still attain licenses unless they are not in compliance with the terms of the punishmet. I hope that each of these students can learn from this mistake and become better people. It depresses me to see how harsh some of you are(including a couple of moderators), I guess you have never made mistakes and never will in the future(pretty amazing).
Yes our profession must be protected, however when something occurs the governing body weighs the severity of the crime and then notes any pattern of past offenses before passing judgement. In this case the schools administration and not a bunch of idiots off the street, decided that the students could still provide a great service to their communities, families and profession. I choose not to second guess the administration. I also choose not to punish or embarass these students anymore by posting their names, I hope that others will show some character and restraint as well.

 

[Col Sanders]

I think that the investigation is a good idea, so that there is a 3rd party to disclose the facts and to determine if the punishment is appropriate.

Politics must not be your thing, because thats all this is. This is just for the Board of Regents to cover their a**es, and show that they are proactive with any problem. These are elected officials.

 

[MoBro]

This statement is completely irrevelant. There is an old saying, " Let the punishment fit the crime!" (Not, "Let the punishment fit the crime, unless the perpetrator has a wife a kids).

No, the statement is NOT irrelevant in the least. It is illustrating that the punishment may well not fit the crime at all. I can't comment on the level of involvement of each individual, because I don't know, and neither do you. Yet some here are ready and willing to paint everyone with the same "evil" brush. Think for a moment that a violation may have been something as simple as a student needing to go back into a chart and add what type of material they used for a procedure because all they said was "composite" instead of "Premise packable micro-hybrid resin composite." They used a faculty login and password they received from someone who said they were allowed to use it, and they went about their business without the first thought that they just made a monumental mistake that may now affect them , their careers, and their families for the rest of their lives. If in fact this individual is refused licensure because of the accusation of "academic dishonesty", you would say that the punishment fits the crime? Or that they deserve worse?

I would say that the investigations may be a good thing too, except for the fact that I have a strong feeling that they will have no way to prove who did what and to what extent.

 

[syn_apse]

They used a faculty login and password they received from someone who said they were allowed to use it, and they went about their business without the first thought that they just made a monumental mistake

finally we agree on something -- everybody involved made a monumental mistake.

the fact is that 10 students participated in varying degrees of dishonesty and fraud and my opinion is that UNLV did not punish them severely enough.

 

[InMyCrossHairs]

I have friends at UNLV who mentioned that a couple of the guys are SDNers. I don't have any inside information, that's for sure.

Yeah, so you should keep your mouth shut!

 

[ineeddds]

This thread is not unlike the previous cheating thread. It's quite hillarious to see outsiders from the UNLV cry fowl, have the media bring out the torches and pitch forks, and then the students of UNLV unite/condemn against the 10 or so students who were involved. The bottom line is, this is how the system is. Like the old addage goes, if you play with fire, you might get burned. In this case, the students got caught and will now suffer. Be it the community service, or actual rescinding of their degrees, that's what they deserve (yes, I do go as far as to say rescinding of degrees). Why such a wide approval of punishment? Because they rolled the dice of laziness, and crapped out. Now they will suffer whatever punishment and ridicule that the adminstration and media can dish out. They will stand as examples of how cheating or ethical misconduct is not tolerated in the health profession field. Yes cheating does occur everywhere, but in the case of the health professions where we need malpractice insurance to protect against "simple" mistakes, being caught red-handed necessitates a swift punishment in order to preserve the integrity of the system. Just think of our medical counterparts. Their malpractice insurance is mountains higher than a dentist's and ethics plays a major rule in that.

Whether anyone agrees or not, this has ramifications across all health disciplines becasuse it deals with public perception. Cutting corners may not endanger a life this time, but what about the next? Now sure, dentist do not deal with life/death in the operatory, but the public doesn't view it this way. Impropriety is impropriety. If you're cutting corners now, it's a sure bet you'll do that in the future.

To sum it up, UNLV has a decision to make on whether it will sacrifice its integrity and ability to produce healthcare professionals that the public views as quality, or use the 10 accused students as an example that UNLV is very serious about its institution. If they decide a slap on the wrist is ok, then so be it. If they decide a deck in the face is ok, then so be it. Family and friends aside, these students chose to gamble, and they lost. Cut away all the rhetoric, and that's exactly the case.

PS. I have many bridges to sell! The "supposed" truth that the students just got the password from another student and used it carefree because they thought they had permission is secret jargon for, this is what my attorney told me to say, this is our story. Ignorance is bliss unless money and ability to make money become involved. If I were to say "hey, all the tv's at bestbuy are free! the clerk told me so," what are the chances of this not being viewed as theft? ZERO Believing a password was liberally given ha! Remember, I sell bridges of allll sizes and colors too!